Really intersting comments. I am off to South Africa bnext month (Kirkmans and Ngala) and will report back.

In advance of that it really depends on what you want. I am a regular African visitor who mainly goes to see the animals. I therefore chuckle at comments such as "I will credit the ranger with great viewing, but that was the only thing of merit in 3 days" as, for me, it is the overriding purpose !

On the fenced or not fenced arguement there are again two sides. Phinda is a fantastic project that would never have happended without fencing. There is however an artifical factor in that the predators do use the fences to hunt - there are numerous stories of the Madikwe wild dogs driving antelope towards the fences so that they have nowhere to go. In times of drought it also means that artificial waterholes need to be created as the animals cannot migrate. I was also at Kapama one year and they had to resort to actually feeding the herbivores as there was so little grazing.

Phil

Phil are you going to Ntented or Ngala Chalets?

Hi

Chalets - there are six of us (my two teenagers and another couple) so the chalets were as far as the budget would go ! I have stayed at cc africa / & beyond lodges before and they are all great so for me I went for extra nights instead of a bit more luxury.

Phil

I have been to Ngala Lodge and it was OK. I must first say that it was the only chalet we stayed in on that trip - everything before had been tents. I much prefer tents. We also had been at camps that had communal dining - this was the first time we didn't done with fellow travelers and camp staff. That said, I think we had inexperienced guide and tracker. There were a few times we had to tell the guide we had a sighting. But it's also the place I saw our first rhino so I have a special place in my heart for it. We spent a lot of time, as tom said above, getting out to the safaris - and passing the cell tower twice a day was annoying. I don't remember the water hole having any animals visit, and we didn't have a view from our room anyway. But no concern about the airstrip - almost all the camps have one and are not a big deal. I stayed in Sabi Sands and much preferred it - we had a very limited budget so we stayed at Arathusa (loved it and had a view of water hole - giraffes were one highlight). I have considered other lodges for our next trip, and the thought of not having that water hole is a toughie!

We are just now planning a trip for next year and Phinda and Kirkman's are in the top three. You have time to research a bit more, and get more confused and excited, before you decide. The airfare between Phinda and Sabi Sands is high, just FYI.

The airfare between Phinda and Sabi Sands is not high, its exorbitant. I would love to go back to Phinda but the cost is prohibitive (since I travel by myself). If you stay at multiple Andbeyond lodges, I think you get a break if you go between two of them (I could be wrong).

Mike

Anyone know how high? High airfare must be why the agent has us driving from Exeter to Nelspruit (2hrs), flying to Durban, & then driving 3.5 hrs to Phinda.

With my agent I know the breakdown of each camp's cost and of each flight/charter flight. Cost of every basic expenditure. This lets me make trade offs for value and time. Your agent knows each cost also.

Not sure if airline you question is South African Airways or Federal Air, or ?? But look those two up on net.

regards - tom

If you fly between Phinda directly to Sabi Sands, it was Fed Air. The cost for 1-2 passengers was a bit over $1000 when I did it a few years ago. I have no idea now.

And Tom is right, in that if you want to get somewhere in a hurry, its the way to go. I did it once, no regrets, but now I would rather spend the $1000 differently.

Mike

Interesting, thanks Mike. Sooooo, you may have choices, like, fly Sabi Sand to Phinda for $1000 and arrive Phinda in time for the afternoon game drive. Or fly/drive Sabi Sand to Phinda taking all day and staying over night outside of Phinda then going in next day. Remember, if you arrive at your safari camp after 4pm you have likely missed the afternoon game drive and what you have left is a $1,200 dinner and bed. Your agent should be watching out for you on such things.

regards - tom

Thanks, guys. I'll be bringing this up. Mike, I did look up Fed Air, but don't know enough to tell name of airport that would serve Forest Lodge.

In my research for my trip, I found that the road transfer from Richards Bay to Phinda is only 2 hours or a 30 minute flight. Now I have to figure out if there is a flight or less expensive charter to Sabi Sands neighborhood. It might be a possibility.

I think Fed Air will fly you to any lodge in Sabi Sands you want to go, for a price.

Tom I paid the price because time was short and I did not want to miss a minute in the bush. As I said, no regrets! I got it all.

Mike

Hi Mike, my reply wasn't really addressed to you, just general comment regarding the situation when traveling to a camp. And as you say, lots of trade offs between time and money.

regards - tom

I have found that most lodges will try and accommodate you if you arrive later than 4 pm, and still try and take you out on a shorter afternoon/evening game drive if at all possible. Late arrivals are very common due to travel times and distances, so the lodges do their best to fit you in and still go out on a game drive for you.
That said, if budget allows I would probably advise to maximise the time at the lodge by flying in and getting there earlier, especially if your stay is only 2 nights or less. Like Tom said, your agent should be watching out for you on this and give you the options available, and cost implications.
Back to the question of Kirkmans vs Exeter River Lodge, I prefer the accommodation and style of Exeter River Lodge, but I prefer the game drives at Kirkmans. Kirkmans is a colonial style lodge with tin roofs, not your typical thatch roof African style game lodge. Also, some folks don't like the hunting history and animal trophies at Kirkmans (like a stuffed buffalo head looking at you from the wall).

Hey wildwings, great to have you here on Fodors. Always good to have input/information from someone who lives in "safari country".

You mentioned Kruger being your favorite destination. One of ours also, been there 3 times in last 4 years, last time in Sep of 2009. We like to start at Kruger before heading over to the Timbavati or Sabi Sand reserves. Anyway, Kruger, what is you favorite area there? We have spent most of our time thus far in the central area, Satara, Letaba, Oliphants.

regards - tom

Thanks Tom. I also like the central area, especially Satara to Olifants camp region. I also love the Lower Sabie area. Nice variety of bush and we always have excellent game viewing there. The far north is nice and quiet, less animals but also less people, and great for birding.
How have you found the Timbavati compared to Sabi Sand?
Regards, Onne

Onne - Yes, love that Olifants river bridge. When we were at Oliphants Sep 2009 the camp was under heavy refurbishment. Our hut number 5 had just been finished and was very nice. Next time Kruger we'll have to stay south camps. Your favorites there?

Timbavati and Sabi Sand - Sabi Sand wins every time. I've been to Timbavati three times to Kings Camp and love it. Once to Ngala Lodge, it was just ok. Been to Sabi Sand camps MalaMala three times, Leopard Hills once, and Kirkmans Kamp once. Love all three, will go back.

Have you been to any camps in Timbavati, I would like to try another there.

After each safari I write a Fodors trip report but I'm not sure how you find them. So FWIW here's a list -
Tom/cary999 South Africa, Zambia and Kenya Sept 2006
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=34881694

tom/cary999 South Africa: Madikwe Hills Lodge, Kings Camp, Leopards Hills, five nights each in May 2007
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35016274

Tom/cary999 Trip Report: South Africa: Kruger, Kings Camp, MalaMala, Sep 2007
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35083850

SOUTH AFRICA September 2008. Safari camps Kings Camp and Ngala Lodge, both in Timbavati Reserve bordering Kruger. Eight nights at each camp.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35161085

Trip Report- South Africa: Kruger, Kings Camp, Kirkman's Kamp, Sep 2009 http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...p-sep-2009.cfm

regards - tom

Those of you going to any of the lodges in the Western Sabi sands in the next couple of weeks, dogs are denning out there at the moment. Saw some updates some place the other day on the net.

All of this input wonderful.

Tom, thanks for putting all of yr reports together; I had already been studying them & always seem to find some new detail.

WWings, Have not yet attempted to get another plan for going into Phinda. Will be curious to know what you or anyone else has to say about Timbavati; don't think Ngala Lodge on the cards anymore.

Am wondering if we should instead do 4 more nights at Phinda, maybe at Vlei. Or split up the 12 nights, 6 at Sabi Sands & 6 at Phinda: Exeter River, Kirkman's, Forest & Vlei (the outdoor plunge could be my waterhole!). All andbeyond, so get 12 night for the price of 8. But wonder if it's worth the extra packing/unpacking. These are the problems to have...

I love the Timbavati, have been to several lodges and some of my favorite (and more affordable) lodges are Motswari, Simbavati and to some extent Kambaku. Kambaku has had a change of lodge management since I was there and I have not been back since. Simbavati is the old Gomo Gomo camp, overlooking a river. Not the same level of luxury as the more expensive lodges, but I love their safari tents. Motswari has some of the most wonderful people, fantastic food, and decent rooms. The lodge also overlooks a river. Umlani as a bush camp is nice, if you prefer rustic reed and thatch huts with no aircon. Also overlooks the riverbed. Of course the top end lodges like Ngala, Kings Camp and Royal Legends are much more luxurious but also more expensive. Tanda Tula is also nice. The game viewing is about the same, no matter which lodge you go to. In general, the game viewing in the Timbavati is not as plentiful and consistent as in the Sabi Sand. In my experience the animals tend to be more skittish in the Timbavati, not as comfortable with vehicles as in the Sabi Sand. This affects the quality of sightings and photographic opportunities. A leopard in the Sabi Sand is less likely to run away from an approaching vehicle. You can have some excellent days in the Timbavati and some very quiet days. I enjoy even the quiet days because the bush is more open than in the Sabi Sand, and a bit more varied too, with pockets of mopani bush here and there. Really beautiful place. So for game viewing, Sabi Sand comes out on top, but for the bush experience I tend to prefer the Timbavati.