When docents lie
 

I was just recalling a trip to Newport RI Breakers Mansion. We were in the "Music Room" and a woman asked about the pock marks on the floor. The docent without blinking said it was due to the ladies of the era's shoe heels. I rolled my eyes but didn't correct him that of course it was from cello's or bases. Hello we're in a music room. He just made the shat up.

Any good docent lies you've encountered?

A friend used to be a tour guide and she said they always lied. I live in neighborhood where the tour guides used to have microphones and loud speakers and they often make up crap.

One time we went to something called Bethpage Restoration Village, a colonial mess. I walked ahead of my wife and her sister and went to the hat maker, and asked if the wooden block was the origin of the term blockhead. The fake colonist said he did not know.

Ten minutes later when my wife entered the hat maker's cabin blockhead became part of the spiel.

It really is unfortunate when the most memorable thing about a room is what somebody said about it.

Sorry you chose to misinterpret or put a spin on my post. It wasn't the most memorable thing about the room, it was simply a quirky sidebar of a very impressive room. Docents make stuff up. I chose not to call the man out that day. Thought it would be a fun topic.

During an architecture cruise in Chicago a few years ago, the guide said the Prudential Building was designed by the same architect as the World Trade Center in NYC. When I asked if he was sure afterward, he said yes but I knew Yamasaki created only one building in the city and it wasn't that one.

While visiting the Benjamin Harrison home, the guide said Harrison completed the map of the continental US. I told him that wasn't possible because he left office in 1893 and Utah didn't become a state until 1896; Oklahoma joined in 1907 and New Mexico and Arizona in 1912.

Now I think back on some of the docent tours I have taken with suspect. :(

Iolani Palace comes to mind. A story was told to us how the Palace re-acquired some of the original furniture. Now I am skeptical.

It isn't just docents.
Some of the stuff tour guides tell to our visitors is just complete and total hogwash.
http://articles.philly.com/2007-04-2...t-philadelphia
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0828/p20s01-ussc.html

I am a docent at our zoo. We carry special postcards with us. If a visitor asks a question that we don't know the answer to - we give them the card. They write the question and self address it. We turn them on and they get answered and mailed to the visitor. We aren't supposed to guess or make things up. Does that mean it never happens? I can't speak to everyone, but most of our docents do make use of the cards. We spend 6 months in training and learn lots but can't answer some of the very creative questions posed.

On the flip side.

We had the most knowledgeable and pleasant docent at ST John's the Divine on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. We usual shun tours because of the rote manner in which they spew information, but we certainly glad we went with her.

Somebody's Law says never to attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence [or poor training].

To accuse a docent of lying implies a deliberate malice that certainly did not exist.

It is unwarranted.

Some folks believe that you shouldn't let the truth get in the way of a good story (not the experts here of course).

Now, take this the wrong way, but ...

How do you know your version is the accurate one?

The play "Lettice & Lovage" giving increasingly embellished tours of a manor house, with increasingly enthusiastic tourists.

vincenzo, I am quite familiar of the marks left by the end pin of those instruments on a floor. After many performances they leave a certain pattern that cannot be missed. Enjoying all the responses and stories.

I'm with Ackis on this one--seems like a pretty mean spirited thread. We have had wonderful docents at the Supreme Court and Library of Congress and Scottish Rite Temple in DC in recent years, without whom our experiences of these places would have been much poorer. I'd hate to see anyone "shun" tour guides on the grounds that Fodorgarchs say They Lie.

I am always curious to see what will raise the ire of some fodorites. I gues we all have our hot buttons. I don't think it was meant to be a mean spirited post just a "huh I wonder if anyone else has heard any doozies?" To be honest , I often wonder how much of what we're told on a good tour is fact and how much is embellishment. I have been on a couple that were so boring , they couldn't possibly have been made up. Having said that, I assume most tour guides or docents have more information than I do.

Imdonehere- we are taking the vertical tour at St. John's in June. I hope it's a good one. I thought my kids might like the whole standing on a buttress thing. They aren't fond of tours either.

abram, you beat me to it. All I could think of was the delightful Lettice and Lovage!

One of my friends is an Iolani Palace docent. We had lunch yesterday, and I asked her about this. She said they have very strict rules against making up your own history. Also says the furniture tales are true; and the fact that they are so amazing is why they are including in the tours.

I have a higher expectation for accuracy from docents at cultural institutions than for guides working for commercial tours.

Thank you to all those docents who, in sharing their knowledge, enriched my travel experiences.

HTtY

Cjar

I will see if any my friends remember her name.

The docent at St, John's was Mia. There is no fee for the tour but a tip is appreciated. Contact Dana Settles, Education Coordinator, at 212-932-7347, [email protected].

Btw, we had a great docent at The Breakers. And at Lincoln's Cottage in DC. And at Mount Vernon. And no, I did not independently verify all the facts I was told.

Icuy- I am so glad the story is true. I thought the story about how they got one piece back was amazing! I never thought it may be embellished until I read this thread.

I don't think this thread was meant to be negative. Just something interesting to ponder.

Imdonehere- Thank you.

Was lucky enough to see Lettice and Lovage with Maggie Smith, late Eighties in London.

Me too. Twice, both in London and New York. It was wonderful. And it was with the two Maggies -- also Maggie Tyzak, who was equally wonderful.

On Monday, June 13 there will be a staged reading of Lettice and Lovage at Hunter College in NYC. It stars Angela Lansbury and the wonderful Dana Ivey. One night only!

Cjar

You are welcome.

I also have a friend who is a long time NYC guide but as a professional her services come with a charges. She specializes in Central Park. Let me know if you want to speak to her.

I know this is the US Board but probably the best known guide in Europe is the thoroughly cantankerous but incredibly knowledgeable Malcom Miller who knows each piece of stained glass at the Cathedral at Chartres.

I read where he is still giving the occasional tour.

"On Monday, June 13 there will be a staged reading of Lettice and Lovage at Hunter College in NYC. It stars Angela Lansbury and the wonderful Dana Ivey. One night only!"

Wish I could go but I'll be in Ireland, which is some consolation . . .

Hmmm. I'll be in New Jersey which is NO consolation. LOL


But can't quite see getting into the city that evening for it.

Thankyou Lcuy for restoring MichelleY's trust in docents. I'm not surprised that Iolani Palace is strict with its rich history. I hope to someday visit as I have read a bit about the history and poor Queen Lili's house arrest - or should I say Palace arrest. This particular place in these islands does not leave room for embellishments.

NewB - there is nothing mean spirited about this thread then you. Truth is, sometimes docents lie. That does not mean that they do it with malice. That doesn't mean that most don't lie. I was simply trying to start a fun thread on when people have caught docents making stuff up on the fly.

Deb - I appreciate that you use comment cards. Sounds like a good system. Because really, how could a docent have all the answers for all those animals.

My wife is a tour guide/docent who leads 2 different tours in San Francisco. I asked for her thoughts on this post. Like Deb's organization, the non-profit which sponsors my wife's tours (San Francisco City Guides) provides extensive training and reference materials before a guide ever does a tour. But there seem to be no limits to the variety of questions that come up during a tour. City Guides tells them not to 'make up' answers or information and to be honest in saying that they don't know something if that's the truth. My wife says that there are some stories that she shares with guests that she calls "anecdotal", meaning that there is lore to suggest it's true (San Francisco has lots of 'lore'), but not with 100% certainty. And she is honest about that. The other consideration is that there is always the possibility that there are errors in reference materials that guides have used to develop their tour content; that can inadvertently perpetuate mis-information. (City Guides have a lot of liberty in customizing their tour detail to emphasize themes that they find particularly interesting within the framework of the basic tour subject and they rely on a wealth of sources to do this). By the way, Deb's idea about the post card solution to unknown answers sounds like a great one! My wife says that she'll mention that to her group.

Stu Dudley

"Truth is, sometimes docents lie. That does not mean that they do it with malice. That doesn't mean that most don't lie. I was simply trying to start a fun thread on when people have caught docents making stuff up on the fly."

You may not be a native speaker of English, so you may not understand that there is a huge difference between "making stuff up on the fly" and telling a lie.

Remember the Western movie cliché: "Smile when you say that, Stranger"?

If you are a man, calling someone a liar may get you punched (or shot in some parts of the country). If you are a woman, it may get your blonde hair pulled out by its dark roots. So to speak.

It is just not done, and if you have further "fun threads" please post them in the Lounge.

Imdonehere- that wouldn't happen to be SueNYC ,would it? I had an earlier post about Shakepseare in the park which I have given up on ( unfortunately just not a good use of vacation time for a family of four) that she was very helpful with.

Well, the mansions in Newport (mentioned in the original post) have "fixed" this. No more docents, just audio tours. (Personally I'd rather follow even a "creative" living, breathing body.)

Thank you, Ackis. You expressed my thoughts exactly. If there's something "fun" in accusing anyone of being a liar, I don't see it.

Please change to title of this thread to "When docents make up $hit."

Well in hindsight, perhaps I should have quietly pulled the docent aside and explained what the marks were. I would never embarrass the entertaining retired volunteer in a group. I will miss them in Newport.

That would be worse then calling out a docent at the Vatican in regards to legendary Secret Missing Penis Room. While singing 'where have all the penises gone? long time passing...."

ACK, very awkward of you. No English isn't my second language. What is a 'native speaker of English?" Did you ask that with malice? And BTW the lounge has been in lockdown for years. But I am sure you are quite familiar with closed clubs.

A decent docent doesn't dissemble.

Are we considering the possibility that the docent is just misinformed and not lying or intentionally making up stories?