Hey NY... do you have kids?
I totally agree with you, but I also think I understand how much of it happened.
Times have changed from when I was a kid (60's and 70's)
There were predators back then, that's for sure, but NOTHING like today.
The world is just much more dangerous.
SO... many boomers who now have teens are really scared to let the kids run as free as we did. Some totally isolate the kids, some live in denial, some (like me) have been exposing their kids to travel and life slowly. My daughter is a good 3 years behind me at 18.
My friends in Europe have kids the same age that have already backpacked across Europe alone. I think that's because Europe is a safer place... more like the US when I was 18.
I don't think you can compare irresponsibility to naiveté. My daughter is naive, not irresponsible.
She wants to do the right thing but she could get in trouble because her intuition is not sharp enough.
I don't worry about her doing drugs, but I do worry about her getting into a bad situation because she is just too naive.
And to say that ALL kids are going to do drugs and get drunk given the chance is just goofy. That’s like saying they would shoplift if they knew they would get away with it.
Some will, some won’t.
My husband and I grew up in the same area, same schools, same economic bracket in the drug crazy 1970’s.
To this day he has never used an illegal drug in his life. He’s been drunk 4 or 5 times as a soldier in the Army. I did it all. Why? Who knows? But some people just are not attracted to that sort of thing and others are…

TxTravelpro: I do agree that in a lot of ways,the world is a more dangerous place, but I also think that our media and our government want us to be scared and we get a daily message from the mass media to be afraid...

And the fact that we want to coddle our children when we should be allowing them to grow up and protect them from this constant "danger" siren pushed in our face is a reality, too, just like some very real dangers out there...

Wrong travelpro. There are just as many predators now as then, we just hear more about it.

look at the Catholic church for example. There were many more abuse cases in the 60's that we never heard of, which are all coming out now.

And, any child is suseptible to doing drugs. I'm sure your daughter is an angel, but never assume it wont happen to them. Why? just as you said, who knows.

Wow... I have to say that, based on other responses here, my parents (mother, really) were extremely strict! My mother would NEVER have said "you're 18 now so do what you wish -- I can't stop you". I'm laughing just thinking about it! Being from Europe but living in the US (NY), I have traveled back and forth to Europe since I was literally a baby. I traveled with my parents all over the world during the summers, including when I was in my teens and LOVED it. I was never allowed to bring a friend nor was it considered an "option" for me to go with them. I looked forward to the 2 month trips every year. Heck -- I still travel with my parents every time I go visit them in Spain! We make it a point to take a trip the 3 of us together, just like old times. And I'm, uh, 37... Granted, I have parents who are very young at heart! I have to say that none of my H.S. friends were permitted to go with other friends on a senior trip. MANY of my friends though did take trips upon graduation of COLLEGE. By then, you have your own money and life-experiences so as to make it worth something more than just an opportunity to be "by yourself" and party. And, come on, I don't care how angelic these kids are, count on them having "fun".

Oh... and by the way. When I arrived at my university I was the overall "good girl". No drinking, no drugs, no trouble to speak of. I was invited to a party my first or second day there and did my first funnel of tequila. Wow... I still shudder when I think about it. Did that teach me a lesson? Not really, but over the YEARS I did learn many, many lessons which made me the responsible adult I am today. What did I know at 18?!?!

And your conclusion is, Heavens....?

Heavens,

For my senior trip, 3 friends and I went on a cruise to the Bahamas (we were all 18), booked through a travel agent. The result? Well, except for one friend who discovered she suffered from terrible sea sickness, it was fun...but a little boring.

We didn't enjoy being "trapped" on the boat all day and except for families with young children, we decided we were the youngest passengers by about 15 years. The port excursions were fun, but short, and we did not turn into partying, wasted girls looking for trouble, as we were not that way at home.

Not every 18 year old is a disaster waiting to happen.

Oh, and to answer your question: we were able to cruise at 18. Might try calling a local travel agent to double check as this was a few years ago.

So no one ever heard of Ted Bundy, the Zodiac killer or the murder of almost a dozen nurses in the 1960s and 1970s? There isn't any difference from then to today. I agree the media wants to scare us. I remember going back to college in my early 30s and having to wait for public transportation in not the best neighborhood but what are you going to do, be afraid of life?

Ok, I concede that many places are safer now than in the 70's (take NYC) but Dallas is NOT safer now, it is way more dangerous. In the 70's there was much less hostility towards Americans in Europe, too.
If there is the same number of crazies per capita as there were in the 70's that means there are MORE today. Right?

Heavens opted not to answer and she will do what she thinks best for them, I'm sure.

nytraveler, you are correct about the developmental delay in social skills etc. But that is not just about Boomers/sheltering parents at all. It is developmental from the USA child's lifestyle. (TV, electronic games time, organized sports with no one a "loser", etc. etc.) and with mom's and dad's working more (often both) or any number of other dysfunctions in adult/child time. Not one in two live with two adults, in many geographical areas. One parent can do a great job, but not as often statistically. Actually it is testable- and it became a 2 to 3 year delay over the period 1975 to 2000. People no longer are self-supportive and/or getting married at 19 or 20, as they were when I was a high school graduate. This all plays into social skills acquired and it isn't just that they have been spoon fed.

And in this day there is much more permanent damage then there was 20 or 30 years ago. AIDS, other nasty and permanently damaging STD'S, designer drugs put into drinks far more often, more guns vs fists, and more psychopaths per capita AND in numbers because there are more people total.

It all "happens" in stages and 18 is no magic number. But regardless of what we knew or did not know from media, the fatalites are much higher now. Then, you heard about a Karen Ann Quinlan for a year on the news. Now it is literally every week in my area, that someone aspirates alcohol or dies from alcohol poisoning- so it doesn't even make the news.

So your kid is great, and it won't happen to them! Wow, traveling with band groups etc. and hockey as I have- hope you all get lucky. Right now in 2005, it seems a bit like throwing a youngster off a pier to teach them to swim.

24/7 free time on a vacation, they still will- unless they are not on your income tax- have the liability of consequences revert to you as the adult parent.

Two interesting articles about kids in Cancun. Also, the State Department issued a warning to parents.

http://www.freep.com/news/metro/spring25_20010425.htm

http://www.familyeducation.com/artic...-28726,00.html

From the State Department: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1755.html

OK, I cannot stand it anymore.
The State Department "warning" is not a warning, it is a fact sheet.

If you or your 18 year old son/daughter don't already know the things outlined within this fact sheet, your both in big trouble.

1. "American citizens should remember that when they are in Cancun, they are subject to the laws of Mexico." - This is a no-brainer, when you are in a foreign country you are subject to their laws, period.

2. "lewd or indecent behavior, littering, driving under the influence, drinking on the street or on public transportation, using public transportation without payment, or making obscene or insulting remarks are considered criminal activities by Mexican authorities." - No kidding, are these things legal in ANY country?

3. "deal with reputable travel agents" - hmmm, how many of you would intentionally deal with an UNreputable one?

4. "Crimes against the person, such as rape, commonly but not exclusively occur at night or in the early morning hours, and sometimes involve alcohol and the discotheque environment. " - This is true of any large city, not exclusive to Cancun.

My point is that if you are relying on the government to tell you these things, you shouldn't be travelling in the first place, no matter what age you are.

I stand corrected atilla.

Keep in mind that authorities in Mexico tend to be Napoleonic about crime, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

Also, the local US Embassy can't do diddly for you if you are charged with a crime except contact your family and give you a list of lawyers.

I'd bet my next 10 paychecks that most 18 year olds have no idea that United States laws and rights stop at the US border.

Attila and GoTravels post are very important IMHO for anyone going to Mexico.

Yes in Mexico you are considered guilty until proven innocent. In Mexico if you are jailed you better have family memebers that will give you money for food, blankets etc.

I have always loved vacationing in Mexico but legally it is another whole world.

And also, the prison system is so corrupt that as of about a week ago the Mexican government was considering sending the army in to take over the prisons. Not sure however that will change anything.

Another Mexico warning: when we were standing in line to get our rental car, the German couple in front of us was trying to communicate the following: They had unknowingly turned in their rental car without a license plate. Apparently they had been directed where to park, in a hotel parking lot (downtown Playa del Carmen). Police removed their license plate for "illegally parking." You have to go to the police station and pay a big fine in order to claim it. Be very careful!

To follow up on this very long thread, wanted to update you all.

Teen daughter and her friends have decided not to take a senior trip. They just couldn't get it together. One group of friends were going on a cruise to HI and they even canceled. Got too expensive and complicated.

OD decided to save the money. There are lots of post graduation activities going on, parties and such. We have family coming down for a few days to be with her, when she has time.

I even offered her a Mom/daughter trip to NYC. She says she wants to work, save money, and not take a trip. She hopes to go on a semester overseas in a few years and would rather save up for that. So...these kids do make good choices. Most of the time.

The prom and graduation wardrobe and announcements alone are putting a pretty good dent on my credit card, so no trip was OK with me.

Thanks for all your input. It was fun to hear all the different sides of what seems to be a hot topic. Have a great summer, ya'll...

Last week, a Mountain Brook, Alabama high school senior on her senior trip did not return home. Her parents are in Aruba, looking for her. She was last seen getting into a car with 3 men from Aruba who have been questioned and released. She was on a trip with 120+ other seniors and 7 chaperones. According to all accounts, her friends and school officials say she is a softspoken, highly motivated, well-liked girl with a bright future (full college scholarhips and plans to go to med school.) After hearing stories like this, I am sure you are glad your daughter stayed home! Too many things can happen.

Heavens, thanks so much for giving us an update! Congratulations to your daughter :)

Bamakelly, I've heard about that story -- horrible, just horrible.

SEVEN chaperones for 120 kids that have just graduated high school? Who's crack induced logic was that? That is almost 20 kids per chaperone.

Traveling at 18, can they???

Question really is: SHOULD they?

With ya' GoT. As a former high school teacher and many-time chaperone, I couldn't agree more.

Hello, Heavens! Thanks for the update & congrats to your daughter. I know how tough it is making decisions like this. I am on the "no" side. I do not think an 18 yo or "almost 18 yo" shd go away w/ friends(no parents) for March Break/ Graduation. It's hard enough to control the alcohol & binge drinking (even "responsible" kids do it) when kids are @ home & have to "report in" @ the end of the night on Friday & Saturday. But to be away for a week on some Caribbean Island where the drinking & partying starts in the early afternoon...no way!

Wow this post never ends. I'm glad I was never treated like an immature moron like 18 yr olds of today. 18 yr olds have to grow up and that means letting go of mommies apron strings, making mistakes, exploring and experiencing the world. There are many adults that go on vacation and end up missing too. Guess society has to extend adolescence to 30 now.

I think whatever happened to that poor girl is very unfortunate. But to get into a car with 3 strange men - is not just ill-judgement - it is the height of naivete - perhaps understandable in a 10 year old (although I remember lessons from first grade on about never doing this) - certainly never in an 18 year old. (Who in their right mind - no matter how drunk - would do this?)

Certainly criminal acts can never be tolerated - but if one behaves in such a ridiculous way - ill consequences really can;t be a surprise. (This is like walking down a train track and then being surprised when you're hit by a train.)

It only goes to support my contention about the infantilization of American youth. If children were allowed to grow up at a normal rate- and make/learn from small mistakes when younger - perhaps they wouldn;t make such disastrous ones when they become adults.

It's not surprising that two of the most judgmental and ill informed posters on this topic don't have children.

nytraveler, you hit it on the head. It's not that 18 yrs. are being treated like morons, it's that we aren't letting kids understand the consequences of actions all the way through childhood. We protect their tender psyches by telling them they are all excellecnt students, even if what they do is lazy drivel OR if they genuinely need extra help - or we program their every minute in oversized living-rooms on wheels so they have no idea that the world is not, as a rule, safety-belted, airbagged, right-of-way'd, etc. And our entertainment for them is all painless bang-bang, oh dear, we killed a cartoon character. Not that I'm saying that 5 year olds should be sent to play in traffic, but perhaps they should know that most of the world is neither DisneyWorld nor Las Vegas.

Heavens, I'm relieved to know your daughter's group's ambitions didn't quite pan out -- if we'd thought about it, we probably could have predicted that. But it certainly does seem to me that 18 year olds now have less maturity and more freedom that was the case a few decades ago.

PS I am a parent, too.

Rockhopper LOL and I agree.
Also agree with soccr, nytraveler, stephanie.
(Not that anyone's opinion will be altered by an internet forum!!!)

Actually GoTravel, that ratio is about right.

Keep in mind:
By far the vast majority of graduating seniors are 18 years old.

Old enough to fight in IRAQ.

Ceratinly they *should* be old enough to be away from mommy and daddy on vacation.

nytraveler, for the family's sake, please don't jump to conclusions about the missing Alabama girl. She could have been drugged, dragged, intimidated or threatened by these men. We do not know...

I have been thinking quite a bit, and praying for this poor student in Aruba. I guess they were at a concert of about 8000 people. Lots of locals. Somehow she encountered these three, or is it five men? Here is a link to the story:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8079019/

Yes, she may not have willingly gone off with them.

What I am wondering is, on these arranged trips, is there no kind of buddy system? Don't go off alone? Stay with someone else at all times? How is it that she maybe got into some trouble with these men at a concert and no one knew about it? Seems like they didn't know much about her whereabouts, safety, etc.

I totally hold the chaperones, tour group that organized the trip responsible for this. There were 120 kids there from her high school...how is it they leave the concert and she never comes back to the hotel?

Often kids think that the world around them is safe, or like things are back home, and they are too nieve and trusting.

I am so thankful that my daughter did not go on one of these kinds of trips. In fact she was the laison between a tour group and the senior class, which means she could have gone for free. All of her friends opted to not go. At the time I was really grateful. I have never liked these trips b/c of little supervision and they are expensive. But now, I can't even tell you how thankful I am that they all did not go.

I just really pray that they find her, but it isn't looking good. It has already been a week and they have no evidence in the case.

This is too odd, really. My daughter is 18 and she and her boyfriend were talking about taking their own Senior trip together when this thread originally appeared. I read everyone's comments with interest. We just told her, "Yeah, yeah. We'll see when you have more details, but you will have to pay for it." That idea fizzled on the vine for lack of money.

Ironically, as it turns out, her boyfriend is joining the Marines and will be probably be seeing Iraq in January, at the age of 18. I believe his parents would sleep better if they could dream he were going on a Senior class trip, instead.

Heavens, I saw an interview with the two friends she was with. They were all at Senior Frogs or Carlos n Charlies partying and she decided to leave with these three guys. Her freinds didn't see anything wrong with this at the time.

You should hear the stories I hear. And my students are 20-23 more than any other age. It isn't just in Aruba that girlfriends let their singular friend leave with someone brand new, just met and his friends. Happens all the time now.

I used to think it was just in Chicago that young people went missing. But I'm seeing it in small town MI and other places as well.

In this case, they said on the tv this morning, that there were at least 7 witnesses who saw her leave in the car with these three guys, and not one person suggested to her that it was not a good idea. Not one. And it wasn't at a distance either. Three were standing next to the car door.

What else does that tell you about girls' group think in 2005.

It is a much longer maturation process in the USA today. 22 is like 16 used to be in say, 1985. Although I agree with nytraveler, soccr and lots of others in their observations- you can no longer just blissfully send off the 18 year old today- people. It would be like expecting the very first knock to be the gullitine.

Start your kids on the road to independence early by letting them fail and feeling the pain of all that entails.

Okay, this is my take on this thing.

There are two kinds of 18 year olds.

The first is the 18 year old that just graduated from high school and has spent their life in a loving parents safety and cocoon. I think this was obviously this child. She had absolutely no reason in the world to think it was unsafe to leave with three strangers as did none of her other friends.

The second kind of 18 year old is the one who has already moved out of the house, whether it be college, military, or a job, and has lived in the world a little. This 18 year old would have been a little more leery of leaving with just anyone.

Sorry - I was taught by my parents from the age of 4 or 5 - and in school from elementary years (and I believe every school in the country does this) - never to go anywhere with someone you don;t know. For any 18 year old not to know this implies either unimaginable naivete, mental handicap or being up to no good.

I think it has been established the middle is not the case in this instance. If the former - her parents are to blame - and are now reaping the rewards of their negligence. If the latter - then the young woman was not nearly so sophisticated as she imagined.

In either case it is very sad the she rather than her parents - has paid the price for the incompetence of their upbringing.

Go Travel, we have 500 to 550 18 year olds moving onto campus from home every year. Most have no clue how to do a load of wash, or shop for an entire meal, let alone have any experience living alone or picking up all the pieces it would take to do so. They sometimes cringe on washing out a wound or cut, obviously never had to do that either- don't know how to strip the paper or backing off a band-aid. We were hysterical laughing one day, because out of 18 new student workers, we had 2 that knew how to hold or use a broom. One 19 girl didn't know how/why you pay car insurance, or have any idea what it might run in $$$ for a 2004 Jeep Cherokee, that she was driving. A PRESENT as was her insurance card!

They do know how to steal electricity for a computer, though. Or cable.

They also believe the world is good and bad people are just "misunderstood".

The only 18 year old I know that has any experience living on her own, is from England. And I just had to get her out of a fix, so I don't think it is only in the USA.

There was an old Bill Cosby show that was hysterical about the "first" apartment. I don't know any 18 year olds who have any life experience living on their own. The few would be some who have had 1 exchange semester as a senior in high school. Oh yes, and one who has traveled for semi-pro volleyball from S. America. That's all I can think of. Where in the USA could they afford to do that, unless they go out in the streets, or to a half-way house?

Don't misunderstand. There are some 18 year olds who could do all of the travel, living alone etc. fine and just roll with the punches- but they have been made to do chores, have been TAUGHT common sense in crowds, and all kinds of other life values. They know the real world is not Disneyland and that everyone in it does not always have YOUR protection and YOUR well being at heart.

They don't believe anything bad can really happen to them. They have no reason to expect otherwise.

I don't know how, but I totally missed this thread. A bunch of us were talking about if we would let our kids go away for Spring Break to Cancun or wherever. First of all, it's expensive and when we were in the Bahamas over spring break, all the kids there we overheard were just bragging to each other about how drunk they were. If that's all they were going to do, they could have done this a LOT cheaper than having their parents pay for them to go to the Atlantis. (For heavens sake, we didn't even pay Atlantis prices, we stayed at the Comfort Suites.)

I have been told countless stories about high school trips where the kids do very little stuff except shop or party. My son's teacher told me the HS group she chaperoned consisted of kids in Paris who only wanted to go shopping. My mind boggles at this - but I guess you're not that interested in the Louvre and the Orsay when you're 18. (At least I wasn't - now I'm enthralled). I would be upset to know my son was in Paris and didn't even see the Mona Lisa. If he's not going to appreciate anything, why go? I don't need to spent a ton of money so he can drink or go shopping.

My 12 y.o. son seems to think I am a strict parent, but I am NO where near as strict as my parents were. But a lot of his friends are unsupervised most of the day and they are only 12.

And as an observation, we have one young employee at the Y who we are amazed by his work ethic, responsibility and maturity. We are surrounded by well-educated kids who are given everything. But this young man was not. He did not go to college and he is supporting himself. As a result, he is by far the most mature kid I know. That's not to say he doesn't do his share of partying, but I'd hire him in a second before I would my neighbors's son who got into an Ivy Leage college but does not acknowledge my presence amd never worked a day in his life. There's a lot more to teaching a child maturity than merely letting them travel somewhere by themselves.

What if your son has earned enough $$ to pay for his own senior Europe trip? Mine has, and while I'm sure there will be some partying along the way, I think it's the parents who never let their children go off and do anything alone who are in denial.

Sometimes when I read these posts, it sounds like people completely forget what it was like to be young!

JJ5 -

You are correct. It seesm that th eonly kids that are halfway competent are those who parents took the time and trouble to raise them - rather than ignored them except for throwing "stuff" at them.

I'm coming to believe that people ought to have to take a test - involving both sense of committment and common sense- before they are allowed to become parents.