I'm sure there are a lot of 18 year old soldiers in Iraq who would be bemused by this thread.

I do have kids in this age bracket.

It amazes me that adults, parents or otherwise, have the opinion that just because some kid turns 18 or 21 that they are instantly capable of making adult decisions. I thought that I was at that time...I was wrong.

My kids are great, neat, responsible young adults. They have been/are away at college now. Mom and Dad still know best and have every right to say no. They still need guidance and in some cases, supervision. If my 19 year old college son wants to go within the US for spring break with some friends (and pay for it himself)...I will give him some advice and wish him well. There is no chance that I would agree to that prior to college.

By the way gambling can, in some cases, take place at Indian casino's only if no alcohol is served. Drinking can and does take place at bars in Mexico for under age types.

To each their own.

My 18 (almost 19) year old wanted a room for New Years. I got her one but they would have rented to her no problem.
She simply wanted to be next to the place they were going so she would not have to drive home. They were not drinking, they were going to dinner, a movie and Gameworks. Innocent stuff...
There were 3 of them... NOT all kids are irresponsible.

I was a very young, naive, 19-year-old when I took my first trip alone. I and a buddy bought a one-way ticket to Europe. He stayed three weeks. I stayed 11 months, and returned home a much wiser and more mature 20-year-old.

I now have a son graduating from high school this spring. He's talking about piling into a car with a couple friends and driving from Portland, OR to Los Angeles for spring break. His one mention of a senior trip has been a possible (booze) cruise (from LA I suppose) to Costa Rica. When you're in international waters, I'm guessing there's not much that's illegal......

Will I let him go? Can't really stop him! Other than by example, I figure he stopped learning from me 6-7 years ago. Now, it's mostly by experience. So, I'm giving him a lot of rope. Hopefully he makes enough bad choices while still under my care to know not to make them when he's not.

And, one word of caution from personal experience. It's often the well-behaved, seemingly self-directed/motivated, good kids who become the biggest partiers when the choices become theirs to make.

jnn1964, that is wrong and is detestable. 18 or 19 is too young to be in Iraq. And you need a parent to "sign" to get you in young. Ugh!

And that's only one reason why liability laws have to change even further. And/or maybe voting age too. My brother is over there right now, and that is the only thing that he has really bitched about in emails since he got there. No 18 or 19 year old has enough prior life experience to move to that arena by choice. They are going by the guidelines of 100 years ago, when a person had adult responsibility and heavy work starting at about 14 to 15.

You have no idea how much BAD news comes out of these kinds of grad trips. I have been on the giving message end of having to tell a parent that they rolled the car in Wisconsin and that their daughter was not going to make it.
(Take your time, but drive briskly as they need you to sign for her organs.)

The statistics aren't good, and there is no reason to not wait a few years- after having some "out of the home" life experience.

OMG JJ5, Heavens didn't ask your permission to let her daughter travel, she asked some very speciific questions that you obviously don't have the answers to, back off already.

Heavens is going to do what she sees fit whether you like it or not.

And she or very few of you know that liability laws in the USA do make the parent responsible for damages in nearly every state, especially property damages.

And that death/disability/property damage to all of the rest of us, especially in the 17-19 year old DUI category is not good, despite Mothers Against Drunk Drivers etc. We all pay.

And you can say no, beachbum. Yes, you can. To quote Bill Cosby "I brought you in this world, and I can take you out again."

Don't give anybody enough rope, ever- let alone one of your own kids. I don't care who likes my answers or not. Heavens, you don't even realize that damage costs recur to you and not your daughter, unless she is emancipated. If she is on your income tax, she is not.

Gambling at Indian casinos is 18 ONLY when there is NO alcohol served on the premises. If the casino has decided to serve drinks, the age is raised to 21.

"I brought you in this world, and I can take you out again."

Except that we didn't, JJ5. He's adopted. And we suspect that surrounding issues are a partial explanation as to the challenges in parenting him. That aside though, Cosby's comment fails to consider that there is no one fits all parenting model. Even though it's resulted in sleepless nights and a few calls we'd rather not have gotten, it's what seems to work best for him.

First of all, make a distinction between "rite of passage" and "right of passage." "Rite" refers to a traditional ritual and usually involves a social group of several generations. "Right" is something one is entitled to and that the law guarantees. That doesn't apply here, does it?

I'm not just giving you a spelling lesson here -- it's an issue about how to think about this. This business of something being a "right of passage" is really shaky, imho -- no one "needs" a cruise or a car or a trip to a casino as an inevitable result of turning a particular age and/or doing pretty much what they were supposed to in high school. And if it's a "rite," maybe it should involve another generation -- not necessarily you but a responsible "elder."

You want to tell OD you're proud of her, great! She wants to go off with peers doing seriously adult-level things, expensively, without accompaniment? I say there's no obligation whatever to make that possible. There's a REASON car rental companies, bars, etc. don't treat 19-yr. olds as adult customers.

I have a seriously good kid, too, who couldn't have made me prouder with grades, college acceptances, extra-curriculars, judgment, etc. But that doesn't mean he didn't start some experimentation (no, not drugs or alcohol; other stuff) that scared me to bits sometimes; and I knew I had to let him do it. But a step at a time -- e.g., once he was in college, nothing to stop him from going on all kinds of trips with peers, etc. And he did have fun (I hate ski boarding without wearing helmets...)

But the moment they aren't 17 anymore? Did the Wisdom Angel and the Luck Fairy bop her over the head at midnight and make her smart and invincible?

Congrats on having a kid you're proud of and trust. Don't blow it at the last minute.

JJ5, you don't need a parent to sign to join the military at 18 and there are a awful lot of 18 and 19 year olds in Iraq.

Heavens, I agree with your thinking that a chaperone would be good. Maybe you could find something where the girls could have quite a bit of freedom to do their own thing, BUT you are there to make sure that their own thing is OK. You don't have to go everywhere with them.

My mom went off to college at 17. Her parents worried sick about a sheltered girl being on her own.

I went off to college at 17. My parents worried sick about a sheltered girl on her own.

Luckily I didn't have daughters :) With my husband we worried (and still worry) about our sons going off to colleges at 18. And to Europe at 19.

Is there the same pattern in your lives?

I agree that many 18 and 19 year olds are shockingly naive compared to the way we were. But sheltering them further is really not the answer. They need to be allowed - or if necessary forced/encouraged to grow up. (This was a major bone of contention between my beau and his ex - he insisted the girls grow up - have part time jobs, take part in school trips and volunteer activities - rather than remain babies.)

Granted this is easier in NYC than many other places - since reality has a habit of intruding. But perhaps those living in suburban/rural areas need to ensure that their kids get some city polish before they're 18 - after all my friends and I did things in the City by ourselves from the time we were 12. And a little sophistication/worldly wisdom certainly didn;t hurt us.)

As for rules and supervision at college - I have recently been back to my alma mater - a major state university for a reunion - and my stepdaughters are now in college - one in a state university and one in a private school. And while there are certainly a lot more support mechanisms available than there were when I was in school - there is literally no supervision of students at any of these schools. Granted in two places resident freshman are required to live in dorms rather than in private housing - but this no effect since dorms are for students only - there are no faculty or housemothers or ??? Each dorm has an RA (resident assistant) or equivalent - but these are administrative posts - not substitute parents - and believe me - no one is controlling - or even aware of what any of these kids is doing.

If you child is so naive when starting college (and since when did this get to be 18 - my friends and I were 17 when we started) they are going to grow up very fast one way or another. It seems to be a better choice - with a much lesser chance of dangerous mistakes - to mature them before hand as much as possible - rather than throw them in to sink or swim at the magic age of 18.

Heavens,
Double check the cruise thing because I'm pretty sure that most lines require at least one passenger in the cabin to be over 21. To answer your other question, I took my first solo trip abroad (Paris) when I was 19 and had a great time. Having traveled a lot when I was younger, I'd like to think that I was already pretty travel savvy by that age. I even used my own FF miles to get to Paris.

I did a Senior trip BY MYSELF, and had a great time.

I would suggest Nassau, Bahamas as a great destination. Staying at the Wyndham, on Cable Beach, or at the Nassau Beach Hotel, they are right on the beach, have lots of restaurant options close by, so they don't have to go far, they can drink and gamble at 18 there, and have a great time.

You might call the hotel to see what requirements for credit card they have, but I don't think it should be a problem. If it is please let me know and I can make a couple of calls.

Hope they have a great time.

Okay Heavens, I'm going to add my two cents from a hotel's point of view and hopefully OliveOyl will also chime in.

Any hotel in a resort or tourist destination that you would feel comfortable letting your daughter stay in WILL NOT allow 18 year olds to check in without a chaperone over the age of 25.

In my former hotel, and this is the case with most hotels (again, in a resort destination) the minimum age limit is 25 years old.

There is no across the board rule and individual hotels make their own rules but the above is pretty much industry standard.


Just food for thought and I know you said your girls don't party BUT, when kids get around kids, they tend to go with the pack.

I would not and did not let my stepkids go on senior trips unless chaparoned by their father, mother, or me.

They do in fact need a chaparone.

Packing kids off on an unsupervised senior trip does NOT make them more mature and NOT letting them go on an unsupervised trip does NOT mean they are sheltered.

I will not be sending my midwestern suburban children off on an unsupervised senior trip and I do not think I am depriving them and I do not shelter them. My 16 yr old has a drivers license and a job, gets excellent grades, has awesome test scores, is involved heavily in music education and has traveled alone on several trips to attend music training in other states. He often has to fly alone to catch up with the rest of the family for vacation as he has last minute musical engagements. He has stayed in hotels alone, stays at home alone, and has flown alone to meet us in other states. My 14 yr old navigated the Paris Metro alone many days this summer and has made intercontinental flights solo. I trust them about as much as you can trust two teenaged boys. They make me very proud. But I will still be limiting their freedom on vacations based on my comfort level and my own experiences in the world. That is all any of us can do.

Forgive me if I come off as telling others what to do. Chances are great that nothing bad will come of most senior trips. But don't you all think it helpful to know what others think and what others do, even if we disagree? BTW, I wouldn't send my kids off to Iraq unsupervised either.

Just because the drinking age is 21, I don't think you should assume that the girls can't drink. You shuold assume that they will drink.

Also, while 18 year olds go to Iraq and go off to college, the purpose of the military and college is not to party 24/7. Military duties and college classes and studying cut into the time for partying. The only purpose of a senior trip is to party 24/7. If you want to reward a child for graduating, there are lots of other gifts you can buy besides a senior trip.

When I was a senior in high school (I was the model, perfect kid- great grades, didn't drink, didn't do drugs, etc.), my parents let me board an airplane and travel 700 miles away by myself to go look at a college. I acted completely responsibly the entire trip.

A few months later, my parents naively let me go on a senior trip with equally responsible friends to Lake Geneva, Wis. when I graduated from a suburban Chicago high school. Of course, my friends and I drank even though I had never had more than a glass of wine before then. We drove after we drank, too. A drunk platonic male friend suggested that we "get together". Thankfully, I had my wits about me and could say no. I had no business being with a group of 18 years olds, 2 hours from my house, unchaperoned and with no other purpose than to "travel to and see" Wis. What were my parents thinking we were going to do?

I don't understand parents who say that they can't stop an 18 year old from going on a senior trip. Where is the 18 year old getting the money for the trip? The money for college? If you child is fully self supporting and you don't claim her as a dependant on your income tax, then I think you can't stop her from going on a senior trip. None of the teenagers I currently know would qualify for being independent.

At 18, my husband did qualify for being independent financially. He traveled extensively arond the world by himself between the ages of 18 and 21. He stayed in hostels. He had a wonderful time.

Depending on where she ends up going, she can do most of the things you listed, and some you didn’t. I went on my senior trip in 03’ to the Bahamas with a group of friends. We did a package through a travel group (I can’t remember which one, but there are tons) and everything went well. There were loads of kids, our age and older, all over the islands. In the Bahamas you can drink and gamble at 18. Other friends of mine went on cruises others went to Disney world. Everyone seemed to have fun, whatever they did, they all got hotel rooms.

This thread is surreal. I am the parent of an 18 yo and a 20 yo. I am the ONLY parent I know who insisted my 18 yo freshman live in the college dorm, as opposed to the new trend of living off campus in a "grownup" apartment. Not only did I have to defend this to my own daughter (who later admitted she was glad!), I had to call and discuss (unconvincingly apparently) with the other freshman moms. So there is reality: most (99%) of parents today will let their kid do anything they want, and they'll even pay for it. Yet the vast majority of posters on this thread wouldn't DREAM of allowing their 18 yo on a trip by themselves (even though they did the same thing themselves and love telling stories about it). Something does not ring true here...I guess it's the anonymity of the internet, because my experience is that most parents are incredibly guilt-ridden and over-permissive, yet almost every parent here is stricter than I...

joan, believe me, there are thousands and thousands of strict parents out there. I see at least 300 or 400 sets a year. Many are out working night and day, have little time for travel, are working their butts off for huge tutitions and never have time to keystroke an internet keyboard.

padams421, you have said it much better than I.

If you support the child's housing, food costs, etc. not even speaking of car, insurance etc. and they are on your income tax- they are not independent nor emancipated.

I think it really hard to generalize teenagers. I travel extensively and my daughter (almost 19) has traveled with me since she was 8. I have upped her independence appropriately as she has matured. Our next trip to London she will stay a few of the nights at a good hostel. I am just down the street in a hotel and she will not have valuables with her but it will teach her how things work. We take things one step at a time.
I did get her and her 2 friends a room for New Years Eve but I had no fears. You see, some kids ARE trustworthy. My daughter would NEVER cave to peer pressure to get drunk or do drugs. It disgusts her. She has 2 best friends (who have also traveled with me) and they watched a Seinfeld CD once they were finished with New Years activities at the mall (dinner and movie)
Some parents are lucky... and CAN trust the kids.
But then again, Spring Break activities do not interest my daughter at all. I suppose I would be very worried if she were all gung-ho about going to Spring Break because WE ALL know what goes on there... if you do not know, order the video "Girls Gone Wild"

I haven't read all of the posts and my kids are little, but it wasn't that long ago (10 years) that I was in college myself. That said, if a "child" is 18 and going off to college, they are at the age that they should have been raised well enough to make good decisions. If they do make mistakes, they should have the opportunity to learn from them.

I'm sure there are conservative christian colleges out there that keep tabs on studens, but they are certainly the exception rather than the rule. I went to a school where all freshman were required to live in dorms, but there was certainly no checking in on students. You would be noticed if you went missing for days, but certainly not if you stayed out late partying! If you trust a child to go away to college and make the appropriate decisions to balance work and play, I don't see the harm in allowing them to take a trip with their high school friends before they all move on.

What about suggesting that your daughter take a trip somewhere other than the traditional beach places (if there are things to do other than drink and tan, even teenagers may end up doing them)? Spring break senior year 2 girlfriends and I went to DC. No problems at all getting hotel rooms, and it was a wonderful experience. Senior summer my boyfriend and I went to Paris. While we got into substantially more trouble, I wouldn't give up those memories for the world. Make your daughter responsible for the planning and financing of the trip (even if she is using money you give her, make sure she is responsible for the actual budgeting).

Honestly, I am not sure why this is such a huge deal. True, even (perhaps especially) if she is a "good kid" she may end up partying some, but the same is going to happen in college a few months later. At least in my experience, colleges do NOT have supervision. (our only rule - and this was at one of the top universities in the country, not a stereotypical
"party school" - was no kegs in the freshman dorms. And we pretty much ignored that too.)

Also, Heavens, you didn't say why your daughter abandoned her original London plan. If cost was the issue, be advised that students can often get great discounts for Europe travel. We booked all of our European flights in high school and college through services like Council Travel (just looked - they are currently offering London NY for $197 round trip - I am sure there are restrictions, but still pretty good) and youth hostels are a cheap, fun option...

Alot of hotels will let teenagers sign in with out an adult. I started to travel when I was 20 years old and my travel companion was my younger sister who was 17. We experienced so many different cultures that I would say it help make me the person I am today and that is a person with thirst to travel to many exotic destinations. Ever since that first trip at 20 I have taken at least one trip a year and I really dont think that I would have traveled as much as I do today if I did not get the chance to start when I was young. I agree with nytraveler that sheltering them will not make life any easier on them. Yes there are some good ADULTS out there at the age of 18. I was one of the few who was totally independent at the age of 17. After I graduated from HS I moved out and got my own apartment at the age of 17 and no my parents did not pay for it I did and I have been own my own since. If parents feel they raised there children right then they should trust there children can make the right decisions and if they make mistakes -which we ALL have done- they can learn from them. I think some parents wait to long to let there little birdies fly away from the nest. Heavens you do what feels right in your heart.

I don;t want to beat a dead horse here - but am truly amazed at some of these posts.

The simple fact of life is that when young people go away to college they are living on their own - they drink (despite the law), experiment with drugs (despite the laws) and have sex with their girl or boyfriends (despite parental wishes).

This all happens in the dorms all the time. And anyone who thinks otherwise either has very bad - or selective memories - or went to college in the 50's - when things apparently were different.

And I'm not talking about bad kids. I'm talking about good, steady, responsible kids with great grades who are polite, kind, trustworthy etc.

This is simply the process. You cannot prevent it - any more than you can prevent the sun from rising (unless, I suppose you lock your kids in their rooms until they are about 50).

Hopefully you have raised them to be bascially sensible and have a strong sense of self - and self-preservation - and they will keep their partying under control. But to think it isn;t happening - just becasue they're going to classes to rather than on a "senior trip" is just silly.

This is an interesting post because it's such a tough question when and how to give your kids freedom. I think it really does just depend on the kid. When I was 17 (not that long ago, I'm 25 now) I went to Cancun with 4 friends. Cancun is a wild place, and we drank and kissed guys at clubs, but we never did anything stupid. In fact, we made a rule (not one imposed by our parents) that at night, we would all stick together. That means no one can go home with a random guy, no matter how cute he is, and that means that if someone wants to go home, we all go home. We took care of each other when some of us got sunburned or were hung over. In fact, some random guy who I talked to at a bar showed up drunk at my hotel later that night, and when we saw him, I told him to go away while all 4 of my friends stood close by to make sure he did what I said. So I think it depends a lot on your kids and their friends. Of course bad things can happen (like getting stalked by a drunk man), but if your kids' friends stick together and are smart enough to stay out of big trouble (like doing illegle things in a foreign country), they should be fine.

Wow, didn't know so many people had such strong opinions about senior trips.

My son will be taking a group senior trip to Europe in June with a high school history teacher. The teacher has strongly cautioned us he is Not a Chaperone, and that the kids are "legal" in Europe... that's fine by me.

Hey, they have to grow up sometime, and have a good time, too! We protect them a little too much, though understandibly so.
I can only hope my son will be a little less crazy and wiser than I was at 18!

I guess I didn't make my point well. The issue for me is not that my kids might try drugs, sex, and alcohol while on vacation. I'm pretty sure that will happen on any given night in h.s. and I am not wearing rose colored glasses in regard to that stuff. I'm not talking about experimentation. I am concerned solely about safety.

My concerns are about driving a car in a strange (as in new, not odd) city or country which I find difficult myself (you should have seen my trying to find the peripherique in Paris this summer)and not knowing the laws or getting into a situation they can't get out of.

When I was 20 I was in London by myself for a week and got into a scary situation with four men surrounding me in an empty train station. I realize that can happen even now but I feel like I am better equipped to handle that kind of problem if it happens and even better at foresight and prevention of those kinds of issues.

My parents were pretty strict when I was in high school. Because of that, I often had to sneak out of the house at night if I wanted to hang out with friends. I was a baaad girl. Even though I was top of my class, very involved in school sports, had a part-time job, and did volunteer work.

I told my parents many years later about the things I used to do. Some of the things they were shocked to hear about, and the rest they flat-out don't believe.

Never assume your kids are angels because they they're good students or seem responsible. No matter what though, you've got to set them free at some point.

My parents gave me a trip to Europe as a HS graduation gift, for maintaining straight A's throughout school. It was a group tour with other students, and we had several teacher chaperones. Boy, did I go nuts...it was my first time away without my parents! Over the course of two weeks, I drank a ton, got in a fight, snuck into an open window of a stranger's hotel room and stole some booze from their mini-bar, had a fling with a gorgeous man, and spent a night passed out in a public park. I'm sure many of us had these crazy "first time away from home" experiences, and we survived. And we have some great memories.

For those of you who might think suzanne or the rest of us "baaad girls" are trying to impress anyone, I think we're just offering a cautionary tale.

BTW, I bet some of you would be really fun to travel with! I can't get any of my girlfriends to even stay out past about 10pm when we go on girl weekends together. Such a bummer for me.

Part of the difficulty we parents have now is that most of us can remember with horrible clarity all the stupid things we did as teenagers/young adults. Now that we're older and hopefully wiser, we try to make sure that our own kids don't do the things we did, but do the thngs we've been telling them their whole lives.

"Now that we're older and hopefully wiser, we try to make sure that our own kids don't do the things we did, but do the thngs we've been telling them their whole lives."

Aahhh... The dream of every parent. If it didn't work for your parents, what reason do have to think it will work for you? From my observations, wisdom isn't something that's taught, but rather learned from an accumulation of experiences.

Wow - this is an interesting thread. There are many different schools of thought, not surprising because we are of different geographic locations, ages, genders, and personal experiences. It's always good to consider what others think about something controversial. And as in life, we can take all of this information and make our own personal decision. I think that those who thought that the senior trip was a bad idea were just concerned about safety, which is was being a parent is all about. On the other hand, others were concerned about not letting a child develop into an adult, which is another thing about parenting that is really hard to do. Letting go is tough. It would be interesting to find out what eventually happens.

I guess none of you watch MTV but Las Vegas IS a spring break destination and MTV will air the partying from there as well as from Cancun, South Padre, and all the other popular spring break areas. Las Vegas IS a party town! The hotel rules are different in resort areas than they are other places and are also different during spring break months. I found this out a few years ago when I was trying to book a hotel in South Padre and all the hotels had age limits and large deposits required - as much as $500. If you were under a certain age you were required to wear a wrist band during your stay.

I'm a very liberal parent but think it's different with daughters than sons. I would worry about a girls safety much more than a boys.

Nytraveler - The laws and rules are changing on college campuses - especially state schools where they are concerned about liability. In KY there was a freshman girl raped and set on fire in her dorm and as a result several of the state schools are going back to single sex freshman dorms. Any visitors must leave a picture ID with the desk. My daughter goes to a private school in Cambridge, MA and there aren't any rules. Her school dorms are coed right down to the showers and bathrooms. You do have to be buzzed into her dorm but no one keeps track of whether you are there or not or if someone stays over.

Don;t misunderstand me - I'm all for greater security for the safety of the students. But some people here seem to be confusing security (desireable in any residence - college or not) with parenting activities. I'm not aware of anyplace where universities are reverting to treating students as children - and monitoring their friends or activities.

And if there were - I would really question if this is the correct function of a univeristy - which after all is to offer higher education to young adults - not serve as babysitters.

(I know this is a hobbyhorse of mine - but one of my responsabilities is to hire and supervise juniors for a potential executive track. And the number of "adults" in their early 20s - university graduates - supposedly well educated and reasonably sophisticated - that are completely immature and irresponsible - expecting to be spoon fed as if they were 10 year olds - and barely have the social skills of my cats - is truly staggering. And over the past 10 years the situation has become increasingly difficult.

Somewhere these young people appear to have lost at least 5/6 years of expected maturity - and when I see some of these posts - I think I understand why. It's really sad - because its having a serious retarding effect on the development - career and emotional - of the poor kids involved.)

I think you hit the nail on the head, nytraveler...

I disagree with the overprotective parents who assert that the notion of a senior trip is a "baaaaad idea" If you're afraid that your sons or daughters will be influenced by peers, chances are that they already have been. Why not live life while you're young? After all, in the end, it's all about the story. Besides, this post wasn't about offering soccer-mom parenting advice to somebody you don't know, it was about answering specific questions.

Can they book their own hotel? Yes, if 18.
Rental Car? No. 21 year olds can't.
Cruise Alone? Depends on the liner.
Gamble in Vegas? No.
Drink? Not in the states, legally that is. But I'm sure they'll do it anyways.