re:NeoPatrick-
"I didn't realize that it is FACT that the guarantee applies to their guaranteeing that no one can buy the ticket before you enter your information and click to purchase or hold it."

You miss the point. It is irrelevant whether or not it is a FACT. The bottome line is that it is lousy business practice on the part of AA to quote a price and then change the price on the customer right in the middle of processing the customer's purchase. Also, the ailines are not E-Bay, another irrelevant point.

"I had no idea that you could give us a factual first hand account of exactly what happened." re:snippiness and Tracy

You're correct, neither one of us was there so we can't say. However, it's CSR's job to deal with customers who are angry about a company policy in a professional, not a snippy manner, if indeed she was snippy. Another irrelevant point.

"Was this post condescending and snippy? I hope so. It was meant to be."

I'm can disagree with someone without being condescending and snippy, unlike too many here on Fodor's.

I just phoned American with a hypothetical. "I'm online buying a ticket, and in the middle of the process you ask me if my whole family wants to join your frequent flier program. Should I skip this step? Doesn't filling in all that information just make time for someone else to grab my seats?"

"No sir, at that point your fare has already been locked in."

I have not read all these responses but the airline reservation system is insane. I am good at it--but I get several e mail alerts from travel sites. Love www.airfarewatchdog.com

Google: "if airlines sold paint" It says it all.

Corli, my point was that you indicated it was only my opinion and that my opinion was clearly wrong. I was taking the next step in basic logic. If it was an opinion and that opinion was wrong, then the opposite must be FACT. That's why I indicated that you seemed to be saying it was a fact because my "opinion" was wrong.

And my point regarding your "being there" was that almost within one breath you made a big deal that I wasn't there and I couldn't know what she said or how she said it, and then at the same time you informed us WHAT and HOW she did say it on the phone. It was just kind of funny that we couldn't know what happened, yet you said you DID know.

Clark! I'm a big girl! I can stand up to the airlines, and I can stand up to these naysayers! Like I said, I don't need to convince them, convincing the airline is enough for me. But Thank you!
AAFreq and NeoP: There is really no reason to spout your nastiness. "Are you dense?" and "Is English your native language" are really uncalled for statements to poor Mr Griswold. I'm sure he gets enough of that nonsense from cousin Eddie.

Obviously other people disagree with your take on this, not just Clark. The airline honored my interpretation of their guarantee, and they don't cave very often. Continental apparently agreed that fare-changes mid booking are not acceptable. Your opinions are not the be-all and end-all of opinions, except in your own minds.

And NeoP, as for your analogy about buying a car at the marked price.....I really don't think you'd stand for it if you walked into a car dealer and he told you that you could have a car for $500, and you signed all the paperwork, gave him all your private information, hand him the money and then hear him say that he just sold the car to someone else. No, you would turn around and ask him to sell you the other car just like it, at the same price. And you'd probably also tell them that they should have a system in place so that they're not selling the same one car to two different people at the same moment.

Call me a whiner or call me Leslie Gore...but you'd cry too if it...ever happened to you.

When someone INSISTS that "to continue with your reservation" means your reservation has already been made, then I can't think of any more logical question than "what is your native language?" Tracy you may call that nastiness -- I'm not sure what I'd call it, but I was simply astounded at the very idea of such a blatantly wrong interpretation of a simple English phrase if the person has English as his native language. Clearly -- and I gave several examples -- anyone who thinks that "to continue with your reservation" means the reservation has already been made does NOT have a good grasp of the English language. Sorry, there's nothing more I can say about that.

Just a few more examples of common English language using "to continue with" NOT meaning that the thing is done:

"to continue with assembly. . ." Is the thing already assembled?
"to continue your hike to the waterfall. . ." Oh, are you already there?
"to continue with getting your degree. . ." hey, might as well stop, you already HAVE your degree!

And Tracy you say there is no need for nastiness!

Then why do you think it's fine for YOU to spout nastiness?

Sorry, but this was NASTY:

"so come down off your so-often-surfacing high horse."
And this only because I dared to offer a possible explanation of what could have happened and offered my interpretation of the guarantee. And at that point I had not used a bit of "nastiness" -- only disagreement -- which is NOT the same thing unless you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is nasty.

It's amazing how many people here will take others to task for being snippy or rude or nasty in the very same thread where they are doing the same thing -- and sometimes even have started it!

tracy--actually that car thing does happen, not often, but it does sometimes happen when you have 2 buyers who just happen to be negotiating on a car at the same time. It did actually happen to me many years ago--luckily it turned out as I ended up buying my first Honda instead of a piece of garbage Pontiac.

>>I just phoned American with a hypothetical. "I'm online buying a ticket, and in the middle of the process you ask me if my whole family wants to join your frequent flier program. Should I skip this step? Doesn't filling in all that information just make time for someone else to grab my seats?"

"No sir, at that point your fare has already been locked in."<<

That's always what I assumed...once you start entering your info, you get a few minutes to complete your reservation before they sell your ticket to someone else. Isn't that how it works with concert tickets? I've been told on those sites "You have 15 minutes to purchase your ticket." or something similar.

Oh, who knows...

<i>That's always what I assumed</i>,

you assumed correctly.

I explained why on occasion you will get the "this fare is no longer available" way earlier on this thread. Read the long post from 7/13 2:02 pm.

It has nothing to do with somebody snatching your seat, Patrick was wrong about that part, that particular fare was never available in the first place, and there is a perfectly good explanation for that. Read my post above.

The OP and especially clark are mistaken in their thought that the fare is guaranteed from the moment you click the little window next to it.

The guarantee does not kick in until ticketing actually issues a reservation hold after checking availability. That reservation hold fare is guaranteed once you get a record locator with your reservation.

I don't know how else I can make this simpler.

but you are correct, nobody is snatching your reservation from underneath you while you are filling the reservation form.

Red alert. Some people might interpret things differently than the almighty Oz and his frequent flying queen of all airspace.

"I've decided not to continue with my journey once we get to Denver". Does this mean there was no journey?

"I'm in the kitchen and I'm starting to MAKE dinner." Aren't you also MAKING dinner at that point?"

So why is it so hard to understand that some people, people who are not necessarily "dense", might conclude that "When you MAKE a reservation on AA.com" can be interpreted to include the time when you're in the middle of MAKING that reservation?

And that "To Continue with your reservation" means that you have a reservation that you are continuing onward with? It does not say "to continue making a reservation". It says "YOUR" reservation, it's YOURS, you have it.

Again I'll point out that is says your FARE QUOTE is guaranteed, not the price of the ticket once you've put it on hold. And nobody is answering my question. Why are they assigning seats if you conclude that at this point one does not have a reservation yet?

Here's something from the FAQs on AA:

Q: The fare is different than what I was quoted during the booking process - what do I do?
A: If the fare summary is different from what you were quoted, you will need to contact AA.com Web Services.

This is just what Tracy did, so why was she wrong? It does not say "If the fare is different than what you were quoted, it means that your fare is no longer available and you need to suck it up", which is what some of you seem to think that she should have done.

AAFrequentFlyer--I did read your posts...all of them...and I'm not technologically savy, so I don't understand when in the process one is assigned a "record locator." I DO understand your point about a computer glich and the fact that errors occur and are then corrected by the system. I just don't understand when during the "name--address--cc#" process one is assigned a "record locator" and what on earth a record locator is to begin with.

You are assigned a record locator once you put in your info and press either [HOLD} or [PURCHASE].

If all you want to do is HOLD then all you need is to pick the flights, type in your name and telephone number and press [HOLD] instead of [PURCHASE]. Within seconds the site will return with an official reservation and the Record Locator which is a unique number assigned to it for purpose of locating it when you are ready to pay for it or when you need to do something with the reservation.

At this point you have a valid reservation and that's when the 24 hour guarantee kicks in. AA allows you to HOLD the reservation without paying for it for up to 24 hours and they guarantee that the fare will stay the same. If you don't complete the [PURCHASE] within 24 hours the reservation will automatically cancel and that's that. If you do come back within 24 hours and decide to purchase it then you will be asked for all the other info such as address, CC#, etc.

Once you're done with that a [PURCHASE] button will appear and all you need to do is click it. Once you [PURCHASE] the fare then the fare rules apply, so for instance, if it's a non-refundable fare, it's non-refundable fare and any rules that come with it. The guarantee is done once you [PURCHASE] the fare.

You just said that you don't have a reservation until you HOLD it. How can you hold something that you don't have?

If, at the point that you hit "hold" you have a valid reservation to hold, then electing to hit "purchase" at that moment instead means that you also have that same reservation. You have elected to purchase it instead of "hold" it.

The fare quote when you make a reservation on AA.com is what is guaranteed. Not the fare quote when you HOLD the reservation.

So, we've figured out that when you hit "PURCHASE", you have a reservation to purchase. Next step, they ask you to fill in the credit card and to pay for it. They are not allowed to change the fare later on, according to their guarantee.

"You just said that you don't have a reservation until you HOLD it. How can you hold something that you don't have?" Now I know you're joking with us, Clark!!!

"I'm in the kitchen and I'm starting to MAKE dinner." Aren't you also MAKING dinner at that point?" >>>>>>Are you kidding? Of course you are making dinner, but the dinner is not yet fully MADE? DUH! You can be making a reservation while you're making it, but the reservtion isn't MADE until you're finished. Too complex for you?????

"I've decided not to continue with my journey once we get to Denver". Does this mean there was no journey?" >>>> no, it just means there's no light bulb in your socket!!! <<<<< There was a partial journey but obviously the journey was not COMPLETED and the actual journey that the person is talking about NOT continuing with, clearly never took place. Instead another journey -- different from the one that he was talking about doing -- took place. Think of it as the person taking a California to New York journey and he stops at Denver. He then has NEVER made a California to New York journey. I suppose you're going to insist just because he started it that the journey was MADE? You're kidding again, right?

I'm still biting my tongue not to ask the native language question again. Clark, I'm now convinced you're just trying to poke fun at people by pretending you're dumb when you really aren't. There is no way you can be serious about all these semantics!!!

I got an e-mail response from Continental. They give you 10- 12 minutes to complete your purchase before you time out and lose your claim on that particular ticket(s).

Still waiting AA's e-mail response.

So it can and is done on Continental and Hawaiian Airlines. Guess they just have smarter computers.

<blue>>>no, it just means there's no light bulb in your socket!!!<<<
>>I'm still biting my tongue not to ask the native language question again.<< </blue>
I'd say that tonque won out over the teeth about 100 posts ago.

You avoid all the tough questions Patrick.

And again, for the hard of hearing, the guarantee says "When you make a reservation", not "when you've made a reservation". Why are you insisting then that the dinner must be fully made? I think it's because you're merely trying out all the parts of MY logic that disagrees with YOUR logic. You have never yet pointed out why YOUR understanding of the guarantee is correct. And in fact, agents at American agree that it's not! Call them!

Patrick if you look at things (as you obviously do) from the point of view that you are correct and everyone else is wrong, then you will never try to see my view and my interpretation. An interpretation that the airline and others agree with. You're obviously frustrated that I JUST DON'T GET YOUR EXPLANATION, because you come from the point of view that your explanation MUST be correct. Open your mind, like American Airlines did!

<b>clark</b>,

you can't be that ?????

Sure it says "when you make a reservation" but even the person of below average intelligence can understand that the reservation is NOT yet an actual reservation until it has been MADE.
Now the big question is -- do YOU understand that?

Do you honestly expect me to believe that you do not understand that a reservation is NOT a made reservation until the making of it has been completed?

Here's an experiment for you since you INSIST that once an opening (or seat is available) and once someone begins to fill out the form that he HAS a reservation -- try this. Pick up the phone. Call a restaurant. Ask them if they have an opening for 8 tonight. When they say yes, say "thank you. I'd like to make a reservation". Then hang up. Then go to the restaurant that night and get angry because they don't have a reservation for you. Clearly you have insisted over and over again, that when you START making a reservation then you HAVE a reservation. So you'll have every reason to get angry with them when they insist you don't have a reservation.

These pages are filled with posts where I have not only admitted I'm wrong -- but even some where I was the one who pointed out I was wrong. But you will not convince me that "to continue with your reservation" means that "you already have a reservation". Pure and simple. Don't even try any more.