AAFrequentFlyer, the guarantee says nothing about "holding" a reservation. It refers to "fare quotes". And instead of just "walking", the customer got the airline to honor the guarantee. Hence, the rant is about something , it's about "standing up to the airlines".

Let's not assume that when any company gives in to an irate customer that it has anything to do with admitting they are wrong or even being wrong at all. We've all seen customers in a restaurant rant and scream about their "inedible food" or some other thing, and have seen a restaurant comp the meal to shut them up (some call that giving good customer service). That doesn't mean that the restaurant agreed that the food was inedible.

AA didn't necessarily AGREE that the poster was correct in her misinterpretation of the guarantee -- it simply quieted her -- or at least they attempted to.

The thread might easily be re-titled "Stand up and get what you want even when you have misinterpreted a guarantee".

Clarkgriwald, do you really not understand the whole concept of AA's 24 hour hold for a ticket without purchasing it, but guaranteeing that they won't raise the price UNTIL you complete the purchase???

Do you really not understand the concept of seeing a price offered on a website and having it change BEFORE you can enter the necessary information and actually click to buy it or to put it on hold?

You have to put the reservation "On Hold" before the guarantee kicks in.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Meaning - It's almost like purchasing, you have to give them your name and address info then there will be a 2 buttons to chose from (HOLD) and (Purchase).

Whichever button you push the site will come back with record locator and only then is the fare guaranteed if you pressed the hold button. It allows you to double check your reservation or just simply think about the fare before you commit without worrying that you lost it, but it has to be reserved and you have to have a record locator assigned to the reservation.

There is no guarantee of anything before you get your record locator. PERIOD!

Understand?

AAFF, I don't think we are going to have any luck explaining that to some of the posters here. The whole concept is quite clear to me and is easy to interpret from the AA website, but when someone WANTS it to say something other than what it actually says then it is hard for them to undestand what it really does say. . .

Those who are upset that if it takes you 5 minutes to enter your information and the ticket could be gone so they should reoffer it to you -- I'm curious what time limit you think it should be? Clearly 5 minutes is too short. What if you have to go upstairs and get your credit card, then get a phone call and 10 minutes passes -- then would it be OK if they had sold the tickets? Or should they still "guarantee" the rate advertised when you started? What if you had to make a call to your intended destination to confirm that the hotel would be available and a total of an hour passed before you could confirm the purchase? Then would it be OK if they had sold the ticket out from under you? Since those of you insisting the guarantee should stand without mentioning any time limit at all (which the website doesn't do either) -- I can only assume you have some magical time limit in your head that you feel is OK for them to sell your ticket that you haven't yet purchased and what time limit is NOT ok, so they should still make it available to you. But I'm curious exactly what that time limit is -- since YOU are deciding what it is and not the airlines who have made no mention of it.

"explain HOW an airline (or any other business) can put your purchase on hold so it can't be sold to someone else the minute you decide you want it"

Did you see sf7307's explanation? Do you understand the concept now?

I read it, but no I don't totally understand it. I can go to AA's site and enter a destination and date. It gives me all the flights available with various prices for each one. As I take the time to read them, check them out, and perhaps enter information to purchase the particular one I want going and then the particular one I want returning, I find it hard to believe that ALL those flights are on hold for me. Entering MIA to ORD, there may be as many as 25 options each way. Do you honestly expect me to believe that ALL of them are being held for me as quoted until I make up my mind, and fill out my information, and make a final selection and purchase it? Or is it just remotely possible that the airline has NOT put all of them on hold and someone can buy any of those out from under me before I complete the transaction?

Did you not understand that at least two other major airlines manage to hold the reservation for about 10 minutes from the time you accept their offer?

That is the magical time limit, and not in our heads.

You keep arguing that it can't be done. It CAN and IS done by others. AA chooses NOT to do it.

Jeez. You won the point on AA policies. Now be mature enough to admit this whole other "It can be done " is a totally a bogus figment of your imagination.

Typo above. should read: "Now be mature enough to admit this whole other "It can't be done " is a totally a bogus figment of your imagination.".

sidebar here: I just want to share an experience with a 'snippy' customer service agent. I had called about a problem with a bank transfer online and the agent was truly giving me attitude. Trust me, I can give it, but in this case, I didn't start it. She ended up hanging up on me. I was so ticked off that I called back immediately and spoke with a supervisor and asked them to pull the tapes and review them.

bottom line: I got a call from VP of Customer Service (mgmt team listed on their website) apologizing for both the problem and the agent. I received a $50 credit to my account as well as a letter apology also. And the agent ? She was no longer employed by that bank.

So... if you truly believe you got attitude and didn't give it, ask a supervisor to review tapes. Some places tape everything, some only randomly, but trust me, management wants to know.

OK, they CAN hold all 25 departing flights from Miami to Chicago for me when I've clicked the "choose by price AND schedule", and they CAN hold all 25 return flights from Chicago to Miami for me -- and they can hold them all for 10 minutes and not sell any of them to anyone else while I'm thinking about it, but AA chooses not to. There, I've admitted it. Happy?

I'm unfamiliar with how other airlines work -- I don't know if they all have that same opportunity to hold ALL flights on a given date each at a different given price or not. Perhaps they do. Perhaps they also hold ALL flights while someone chooses which one each way they are going to do.

It still goes back to the same thing. If you don't like how AA operates, don't use them. I happen to be perfectly happy with the way they operate, so I will probably continue to use them. I especially like how you chose the departing flight and the return flight independent of each other so you can get the best combination -- not having to choose between various combinations they have put together.

YOu can select all 25 flights offered on AA? The airline situations I described show you all 25, allow you to select one, then hold that. Or were you too busy proving me wrong to read that?

And just about every airline in the world lets you choose the legs independently.*

"You have to put the reservation "On Hold" before the guarantee kicks in.

What's so hard to understand about that?"

That's not what the guarantee says, where are you coming up with this "hold" nonsense? This whole thread sounds like a bunch of republicans trying to put a spin on something that a democrat said.

Here's the guarantee...indeed, what is so hard for AA and Patrick to understand...do you not understand what a "fare quote" is?

Guaranteed Fares
When you make a telephone reservation with American Airlines or when you make a reservation via AA.com, the fare quoted will be guaranteed for 24 hours or until 11:59 p.m. Central Time the following day, whichever allows you more time.

Ok I got few minutes so I will try to explain what happens during on line reservation.

AA uses SABRE, a <b>G</b>lobal <b>D</b>istribution <b>S</b>ystem company. It's an independent worldwide clearinghouse for airline and hotel reservations. There are about 4-5 major GDS companies and each one has few airlines and hotel chains under contract to manage ticketing.

Each airline loads up the GDS computers with fare codes and what each fare will cost.

Just to keep this as simple as possible I will make up few fare codes and what it means:

Fare A - $100 each way, 21 advance day purchase, travel Mon-Thur only.
Fare B - $200 each way, 7 day advance purchase, travel anytime
Fare C - $300 each way, no advance purchase, fully refundable

Ok, so when one uses www.aa.com or www.expedia.com, one is not communicating with some computer in the basement of AA HDQ. in Dallas.

www.aa.com, just like any travel agent searches out the fares from the GDS computer.

In about 99% of the cases the fares pulled out will be available to you regardless how many people are looking at the same flight(s) once you pull them up on the screen, BUT

and here is the occasional goof, the <b>filtering</b> system is not perfect because of the systems complexity, so on occasion the aa.com or expedia.com or whatever will pull a 21 day advance purchase fare when it's only 20 days before the flight. The filter will not catch it and will let it through to show it to you. The customer thinks that the fare is available and should think that, but once they proceed to ticketing the system catches the error and that's when you get the message that the "fare is no longer available". and will direct you to the next fare which is fare B that only has 7 day advance purchase restriction but unfortunately is $200 each way.

Nothing to do with somebdy snatching the fare just before you.

So once again, there has to be availability before you can hold or purchase. If the fare is not available anymore, for whatever reason, you can not put it on hold. Once held with a record locator number, AA guarantees the fare for up to 24 hours until you decide to actually purchase it.

Come on people, it's not that difficult to understand.

The complexity of the GDS system makes it vulnarable to occasional glitches and so does the filtering systems of any particular travel website, which www.aa.com is just that, a travel agent website. Sometime it just does not catch a specific rule until it goes to ticketing and realizes that the filter scewed up by presenting that fare to you in the first place.

I can't make it any simpler then that. If you don't like the way the system works, find another that does it correctly 100% of the time. I bet you can't.

Southwest has their own reservation system because they don't interline with other airlines, they do not partner nor codeshare, they don't need to "talk" to foreign based partners during ticketing, so their system is much simpler. It's only systems like that that will pretty much be 100% correct, but any airline that just by the fact that they need to use GDS computers to ticket and have powerful fliters trying to catch all the restrictions will goof occasionally.

It's not conspiracy, it's just a simple computer error.

Guarantee ONLY kicks in after you do get the record locator for your held reservation, NOT before.

One has nothing to do with the other.

One more time class

<b>Availability

Hold Guarantee
</B>
2 different animals..

"There is no guarantee of anything before you get your record locator. PERIOD!

Understand?"

That's not what the guarantee says. It says that the "fare quoted" is guaranteed. You don't get a record locator immediately when you get a fare quote.

I just called American and asked the agent what would happen if he quoted me a fare, and I wanted to book two tickets at that fare, and then before he completed the sale the fare changed?...He said it rarely happens, but that I would get the fare originally quoted after a quick approval from his supervisor. Then he said I could even hold that fare for 24 hours without worrying that it would go up, if I didnt' want to purchase right away.

The same courtesy should be due anyone booking online, shouldn't it?.

And why would they want to guarantee a fare to someone who's "holding" it for 24 hours while shopping around, and not to someone who wants to buy it immediately???

<b>clark</b>,

you're dense...

Yoy have to MAKE the reservation before you are given a guarantee. That means the reservation has to be put on hold and a record locator is assigned to the reservation. Only then the 24 hour guarantee kicks in.

<i>And why would they want to guarantee a fare to someone who's "holding" it for 24 hours while shopping around, and not to someone who wants to buy it immediately???
</i>

read my long explanation above, but I doubt you will be able to comprehend any of it so on that note, I will leave this room.

This is a rant about nothing!

American Airlines apparently disagrees.

They're not going to let you choose a seat until you have a reservation....and the "choose a seat" button comes up before the "fare is no longer available" message came up.

OMG! Yes: I'm reading the quote:

Guaranteed Fares
When you >>>>make a telephone reservation<<<<< with American Airlines or when you >>>>make a reservation<<<< via AA.com, the fare quoted will be guaranteed for 24 hours or until 11:59 p.m. Central Time the following day, whichever allows you more time.

What is so hard to understand about that? NOTHING for me, but obviously it is too hard for YOU. Note that I've highlighted >>> make a reservation<< which somehow you seem to keep overlooking or misinterpreting. I know of no way that "when you make a reservation" can be interpreted as "BEFORE you make a reservation". Never once does it say, "when you open a fare quote and look at it and consider making a reservation" or "when you find a quote online you are guaranteed that it will be there for ______minutes until you complete the reservation".
You may not choose to call it a "hold" but what would you call it when it clearly states that you can make a reservation and THEN have 24 hours to think about it with a guarantee that they won't change that rate AFTER you make that reservation (I still call it a hold since you can cancel it within that 24 hours too)? That's why they specifically say "whichever allows you more time"!



Now why is THAT so hard to understand???

"And why would they want to guarantee a fare to someone who's "holding" it for 24 hours while shopping around, and not to someone who wants to buy it immediately???"

TA TA!

That my friends is called CUSTOMER SERVICE -- allowing someone to finalize their plans before getting stuck with a non refundable airfare that won't work for them. That's the CUSTOMER SERVICE which I appreciate and use over and over again with American, but which some others have no appreciation for! That's a good example of CUSTOMER SERVICE which some of you say that AA doesn't have any of.

It may be sad if you lose a quoted fare in the 5, 10, or 30 minutes you're taking to finish the purchase (or hold) but to me it is even worse when you buy a fare and immediately find out that it won't work for you for any of a number of reasons that you couldn't check out WHILE doing the purchase, and then find that you can't cancel it. I LOVE the fact that I can always put a fare or intinerary on hold for 24 hours without having a total committment to it and possibly losing all my money.