STAND UP to these Airlines!!!
 

Where the heck is this Passenger's Bill of Rights, anyway? I am so tired of this crap...it almost makes me want to DRIVE across country.

Last week my sister bought an $800 ticket and two days later it was on sale for $600. She called to get a refund or credit or voucher, NOTHING. American Airlines, you stink! That's poor customer service and you just lost a customer forever. Even Kmart will give you a refund if the price of something that you bought goes down 2 days later.

Anyway, back to MY story. I found a good fare a while back and decided to buy 3 tickets....by the time I had filled out all the information (they want your cell phone number now, and your billing address, and your this and your that, then they want you to read the fare rules, and they want you to buy trip insurance yada yada yada)...........and after I enter my credit card number and click "purchase"; (finally!) ...I get a message that "the fare you were quoted is no longer available....the new fare is $250 more). WHAT? I called and they basically said tough luck. Well, I checked their "customer service commitment" page (or something like that ), and it says that they guarantee all fare quotes for 24 hours unless you change your itinerary. So I called them back, and after four switches-of-personnel and after being on hold four times for 10 minutes each, I finally talk to a web-specialist who says sorry, "fares change quickly".
"But your website says fare quotes are guaranteed for 24 hours"
"Huh? Where does it say that?"
"Halfway down the customer committment page"
"Tell me how to find this so I can read it with you".
"Log on. Click here. Click there....see? "
"Hmmm...hold on"
10 minute wait
"Well, I'm sorry , but the fair changed before you completed your purchase"
"Yeah but only because it asked me for 10 minutes worth of information"
"You can check tomorrow, it will probably go back down"
"WHAT? That's not customer service! Your fares are GUARANTEED for 24 hours!"
"No, the guarantee is only AFTER you've purchased, not while you're purchasing"
"HUH? What sense does THAT make? Why would I need you to guarantee the fare if I already bought the ticket. You can't raise the fare AFTER I bought the ticket and have possession of the ticket! And the guarantee says that fare QUOTES are guaranteed. I logged on, you quoted me a price, I clicked "purchase", and ten minutes later the price was gone! What kind of a 24 hour guarantee is THAT?'
Then of course she got real snooty like they do (I don't blame her, it's not HER fault that the company she works for is so RIDICULOUS with their rules)... and puts me on hold for another ten minutes then finally comes back to act like they're doing me a big big big ONE TIME ONLY favor by fixing my record so that I can get the quoted price. Like they're going out of their way to do something for me. HEY ! I'M NOT THE ONE THAT PUT THIS GUARANTEE on your website....didn't anyone ever take you up on it before???"

And by the way, would we accept it if Macy's put a big sign up for "PANTS ON SALE!", and then when we got there they said "WE ONLY HAD TWO PAIR OF THEM ON SALE. WE STILL HAVE 50 PAIR IN STOCK, BUT WE SOLD THE TWO THAT WE HAD AT THE SALE PRICE, SORRY!"

No, we wouldn't. But that's what the airlines do, have a sale and close it down after they sell two or four seats at the sale price. Bait and switch. These airlines have been getting away with too much for too long, and I for one am getting good and sick of having to do a cartwheel, jump through a hoop and land on my tippy toes just to get a decent fare.

Amen, sister!

How about some of MJ's Xanax there sister.

Enjoy the drive.

I recently had a flight delayed for two hours...AND the line to check-in for the flight (and possibly reshedule missed connections) also took ALMOST THREE HOURS. Unbelievable. As we were finally speaking to someone, they were giving the final boarding call for our flight.

The manager admitted that they tried to call in more staff once they realized the Continental desk would be swamped, but "In this age of caller i.d., no one decided to answer because they all wanted the day off." There were 3 people helping all of the passengers from TWO delayed Continental flights that morning. Ridiculous.

If that kind of thing doesn't frustrate you, I don't know what will.

Xanax? Really? I didn't realize it was that rare to become frustrated. Anyone who doesn't get aggrevated every once in a while must lead a pretty charmed life.

You have a choice in airlines. If you have problems with one airline, fly another next time. I once had a lousy experience with American Airlines. I used to fly them a few times a year. After my bad experience (I was poorly treated by more than one person), I've put them at the bottom of my list of airlines to patronize. In the last few years I've had great luck with Southwest - and I fly them every time if I can (not to go overseas, of course) and have yet to be disappointed. Others swear by JetBlue (never flown them) or Alaska.

I'm with Andrew. Southwest is fabulous. It's the only airline left that doesn't charge for baggage. They have great, friendly, helpful telephone agents. Their fares are usually the lowest if you book well in advance. They charge no fees for changing your reservation or getting a voucher-refund. They are always my first choice.
I have used Alaska and Jet Blue and in my experience they have also been problem free.

I share the same sentiments as Andrew. SWA first. AA last.
Flying, in general, isn't as enjoyable as it used to be.

AA allows a "hold" for 24 hours and that's when the fare is guaranteed.

Other airlines allow a refund within 24 hours, but no "hold" so you have to purchase before the 24 hour refund becomes available.

Both ways have advantages and disadvantages.

Won't go into that right now, but basically your rant is about nothing.

I think AA rocks, but that is JMHO. :-)

Sorry - in fact stores do that all the time. Esp when they have huge reductions - as on Black Friday. The ads will clearly say - Sony 31" flat screen TV on sale for $299 (only 5 available - or only first 5 customers or only before 7 am or something). And if you buy number 6 is goes back up to $700 or whatever. And that is perfectly legal - it's just a loss leader.

The problem is when the company doesn't make these rules apparent to begin with.

Almost all of our travel is arranged by a corporate travel office (gets us better rates and special deals and contributes to the company's total business and volume discounts from airlines and hotel chains) but if we ever do anything ourselves we always print off a copy of the special deal or rules - so we have a hard copy in hand if there are any problems. (A friend once had the rules on the website change while she was actually watching it - so we don't take any chances.)

I've had my itinerary for a flight to Stockhom changed twice within 3 weeks. First, I had to move it back one day because "we aren't flying to Stockholm on that day anymore" and then today the flight was moved back yet another day.

Each change involved no penalty fees at least. If they move it back yet another day then I'll have to consider another airline. Fortunately i can be flexible with this but I've now reached the flexibility limit. But all of this isn't in any way surprising as the airlines continue to cut costs.

Good job making them honor their guarantee. Others might have just shrugged, popped a xanax, and paid the extra $250.

And no, stores don't do that all the time, without having to clearly state it in their advertisements. If there is a price tag on an item, you don't get it to the cash register just to have them tell you that the price changed during your two minute walk.

AAFrequentFlyer, that's ridiculous. AA allows a "hold" for 24 hours, but if you don't choose to "hold" the reservation for 24 hours and instead try to "purchase" it in the first 5 minutes, the guarantee does not stand? If you accept that kind of nonsense and still think that AA "rocks", keep flying them. (Unfortunately they'll probably be out of business soon. ) What the heck good is a 24 hour hold guarantee if once 23 hours has passed and you decide to "purchase", the fare could just change?

Add me to those who say this is no different from retail. I've been to stores that ran ads that clearly said, "All men's slacks 30% off" but got there and found it is all except Ralph Lauren, Nautica, etc., etc. -- in short, any I'd want to buy.

And also add me to the list that has never had a problem like that mentioned with American. I fly them almost exclusively -- and now have over a million miles with them total.

Let's be brutally honest here. How can anyone "guarantee" a price of anything won't go up BEFORE you purchase it, no matter what the reason? And if everyone gave back the difference between a previously purchased item and a new "sale" price -- then what would be a "sale" about it at all? You're suggesting everyone, no matter when they bought it should get the sale price if it ever goes on sale. You tried in two days and are upset. If you had tried in 5 days would you still be upset? How about 10 or 30?

<i> How can anyone "guarantee" a price of anything won't go up BEFORE you purchase it</i>

But Neo, isn't that the point, that they did guarantee it, in writing, for 24 hours? Or am I confused?

<i> I've been to stores that ran ads that clearly said, "All men's slacks 30% off" but got there and found it is all except Ralph Lauren, Nautica, etc., etc. -- in short, any I'd want to buy.</i>

As for this, I know each state's law differs, but in California this would be illegal unless stated in the same ad, as are loss leaders that are actually sold below cost.

I have no problem with them making their own rules, but I do have a problem with them <i>not following</i> their own rules.

"But Neo, isn't that the point, that they did guarantee it, in writing, for 24 hours? Or am I confused?"

Yes, you are confused.

They didn't guarantee that a price shown on the screen will still be available by the time you actually buy it or place it on reserve. Just like they can't guarantee that if there is only one seat left on the plane and they show it as available that it will still be available 10 minutes from now after you've completed the attempted purchase of it. How could they? How can they prevent someone else from buying that seat before you do? If they have a limited number of seats at a certain price how can they guarantee that those seats won't be snapped up in the next 30 seconds?

What they are guaranteeing on their website (and I think it is spelled out pretty clearly) is that once you have actually submitted the billing information or confirmed that you want an advertised seat at that price, AND it comes up as available with your name on the reserve then it will be held at that price for 24 hours. And they guarantee that then they won't change the price before you complete the actual booking. Why is that so hard to understand? Meanwhile, there aren't many airlines that will do that to my knowledge. There is often no "reserve" and if you wait a day to complete the purchase, there is no guarantee the price won't go up.

This is no different than driving by a car lot and seeing a price on a car guaranteed to be $500, parking, going in, talking to a salesman and finding out that while you were doing that someone else already bought the car. How could they guarantee that they wouldn't sell it to someone else while you were getting ready to buy it? What right would you have to complain that someone else bought the car before you did? On the other hand if you went in and filled out the paperwork and they agreed to sell you the car at that price -- THEN you'd have a right to be angry if someone came out an hour later and said it was no longer available at that price.

I interpreted it as the airline guaranteeing X number of seats at $X each. If it takes you 10 minutes to fill out the form and someone else buys those seats in that 10 minutes, then they don't have any more seats to sell at that price. Pretty much like Neo's car lot analogy.

<<"WHAT? That's not customer service! Your fares are GUARANTEED for 24 hours!" "No, the guarantee is only AFTER you've purchased, not while you're purchasing"
"HUH? What sense does THAT make? Why would I need you to guarantee the fare if I already bought the ticket. You can't raise the fare AFTER I bought the ticket and have possession of the ticket! And the guarantee says that fare QUOTES are guaranteed. I logged on, you quoted me a price, I clicked "purchase", and ten minutes later the price was gone! What kind of a 24 hour guarantee is THAT?'
Then of course she got real snooty like they do>>

I understand that the OP was frustrated, but if the OP was snappy with her, I'm sure she did get snooty. It can't be pleasant enforcing rules she has no control over and dealing with people who yell at her because of it.

We all have a choice of airlines, so if you don't like the way American operates, then as Andrew says, vote with your feet.

"I understand that the OP was frustrated, but if the OP was snappy with her, I'm sure she did get snooty. It can't be pleasant enforcing rules she has no control over and dealing with people who yell at her because of it."

Or listening to someone telling her that they had no right to sell seats while she was filling out her form and they should now offer MORE seats at that price. . .

Regarding this price guarantee on AA.com for 24 hours while "HOLDING" the reservation (before purchase) - actually, more than once, when I went back to purchase the ticket within the 24-hr window period, I was informed that the ticket price has actually <b>gone down</b> and I can purchase it at the lower price. So, their "gurantee" is actually only good for situations when the price goes up. If the ticket price goes down, you get to pay the lower price. :D

So the OP didn't "hold" anything, he just looked at the price tag and kept on looking?

The way I read it, is that the OP saw a fare of $X on AA.com. While she was attempting to purhcase it on AA.COM, by the time she finished entering all the information (name, address, CC info etc) and hit "Purchase", the $X fare was no longer available.

I don't think she ever placed the fare on hold, because she was trying to purchase.

The Price guarantee only applies if one decides NOT to purchase right then and there, but places it on Hold.

Got it, thanks! (Aren't you up a little late?)

I have had this happen only on third party sites like Orbitz or Expedia (which I have not used in years.) I guess the apt analogy is to when you see a loss leader ad for, say, Best Buy. You know, the "great laptop for $299, five per store, no rainchecks." If you are #6, you're SOL, even if you are in line right behind lucky #5 . Airlines always note that seats at discount fares are limited, but when booking online you just don't know who else or how many others are in the process of buying the same seats from the limited number available.
There has to be a point in the online booking process at which the seat is marked "sold" and taken out of inventory, and I'm guessing it is when the credit card info is entered and approved. So if there are ten seats at given price and twelve people online trying to buy them, the two who take the longest time to enter info will lose. I do just about all my booking online with Continental and have a credit card saved in my profile. After I sign in and search schedule/fares it is just a click or two to complete the purchase. BTW, CO does also offer a 24 hour no penalty refund policy on completed purchases.

I am not ranting about "nothing", AAFF, right now $250 is really SOMETHING to me. And to Patrick and those of you defending the airline, don't you at least think it poor customer service that the "supervisor" needed me to point her to their own guarantee? No, instead you ASSUME that I was snooty. Believe me, I can barely get my words out after throat surgery, I WANTED to scream but I couldn't.

As to the guarantee, it is worded as applying to "FARE QUOTES". If one logs on and is shown a price, is that not a fare quote? Then you accept, choose your seats, enter your credit card etc.

How about speaking with a reservation agent on the phone- does the same thing happen? They quote you the price, you accept, you give them your credit card and choose your seats and then they tell you "oops, the fare has actually gone up since I quoted it to you five minutes ago"? So do I need to make sure I connect with the fastest-phone-agent-at-the-airline in order to get a better chance at actually BUYING the quoted fare???

And I don't know where you're shopping, and maybe they are falsely advertising that all pants are on sale... but as someone else mentioned....the price of pants is not going to change between the time that you take them off the rack and the time that you get them to the register. The store is required to give you the marked price if it is lower than what pops up on the register.

They did indeed have no right to sell those seats while the OP was filling out her information, she had already grabbed those seats.

I just tried to use a United Airlines flight credit on a flight my husband cancelled last year. The credit was $215. The flight I wanted to book was $350. United charges $120 to use the credit. I grumbled but thought $95 off my flight was better than nothing. I went ahead with the booking and then the agent said my husbands credit was non-transferrable. Unreal. The $215 flight credit remains unused and runs out next month. I too love Southwest. I would have booked them but they don't fly into Charlotte, NC.

People who feel they got ripped off do not listen when things are explained to them. This entire situation has clearly been explained now several times.

Pointing out a guarantee on a website that has NOTHING to do with guaranteeing that they would hold a price before you finished your purchase has NOTHING to do with the issue of customer service in this case. You were telling her that the guarantee you were talking about would do something that it clearly doesn't cover. Why would she know about it? You had NOT purchased a ticket and had the airline try to raise the price later -- so why would this agent even suspect that guarantee is what you were talking about? It had nothing to do with the situation you were complaining about! You apparently approached her that there was a guarantee that there would be an unlimited number of advertised discounts available for purchase and that the customer would be guaranteed they couldn't miss out if they were too "slow" in responding. No wonder she asked where that guarantee was!

Why am I defending the airlines? Because there is no logical reason they should have offered more discount seats just because you happened not to be the first in line to get the one you saw on line and it was gone by the time you filled out your information. Sorry, but I don't see where they did anything wrong.

I have NEVER had a "snippy" attitude from an AA operator and I've talked to hundreds of them. Many other people get them all the time. Why do I get the impression that the ones who always get the snippy ones started the snippiness themselves? Why do I suspect you started the conversation with something like "I don't believe how AA is trying to rip me off with switch and bait" or "oh, I'm glad somebody finally answered the phone" or something similar. The bottom line is that your entire conversation when calling them was clearly based on "I was too slow and lost a discount price, now what are YOU going to do about that?" What on earth should she do???

Sorry to be so blunt and I realize you are "hurt" but I call them just like I see them.

Similarly I suppose you will now read my above response and feel it too was being "snippy" and unfair towards you. Generally whenever someone hears something they don't want to hear -- no matter how logical or true it is -- they immediately decide the answer they got was "snippy" or uncalled for and done with a bad attitude. Read my response; there is no snippiness at all -- just logical explanation of what happened. I apologize if it offends you, but I'm not sure how else I could put it.

There is a unique aspect to this, and that is the online purchase channel. Unlike in a brick and mortar store where you can see what's on the shelf and how many other customers are looking at the item, when online you see a display of what is available at the moment you ask but cannot tell how many others are looking at the same thing. In the store you can grab the last item in the size/color you want, even carry it around with you for a while as you continue shopping, but online you do not have that option.

I have wondered if it would be possible for the airline to remove a seat from inventory when an online user selects it, hold it for a brief time (like five minutes) and return it to inventory if the purchase is not completed within that time. But when one thinks about the potential for hundreds of people simultaneously searching for seats on the same route (especially heavily traveled hub routes) it doesn't seem feasible. And what about users who are constructing multi-leg itineraries that require more than five minutes of searching? Maybe there is a software guru who has an answer, I certainly do not.

As to getting a refund because the price dropped (the other issue in the OP)- no sympathy there. In the crazy world of airfares rules and limits are spelled out at the time of purchase. If it says non-refundable when you buy it, why would you expect to get a refund? If it was sold as refundable you would expect the airline to play by the rules and give you a refund if requested. Why would you expect something different in this situation? If you want the ability to get a refund, buy in a refundable fare class. Sure, it would be a nice gesture if the airline allowed the refund but it would be neither good business practice (as customers would quickly learn that the rules don't really matter) nor fair to those who waited, hoping for a price drop.

Complaining here about the airlines will always get you a few apologists for the airlines - no matter how egregious the airlines' behavior -- usually from people with high mileage who get treated very differently from mere mortals with less than 50K miles. And they're going to proclaim that that's the way it SHOULD be because they do lots of flying and you don't. Your money simply isn't as good as theirs.

For my money, literally, I think the airlines' policies and practices are Byzantine and chaotic and haven't served either themselves or us well for the long haul. They are a service industry, but like so many others, they worry about service to shareholders and execs long before they worry about service to the general public - and the attitude shows it.

JJ495 I am indeed a "KMA elite" and do generally get great service from my airline of choice, but am far from an apologist. Trust me, on the infrequent occasions when service falls short they do hear from me.
When complaining about fare rules and regs keep in mind that more people have access to air travel than ever before, and prices in real dollars have actually gone down over the last couple decades. For those who wish to have the old fashioned full fare flying experience, there are full fare tickets available. As always you get what you pay for.

When I read the title and saw who wrote it I thought this was a Part 2 play-on-words to tracy's classic "Pray for the Leg" thread of many moons ago. Guess not.

http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...m#last-comment

"You get what you pay for"? Hardly.

Just for starters, is what you get in first class 10 times better than when you get in coach? Is what I get for my $495 twice as good as the person sitting next to me who got his $250. ticket through a consolidator? Is what people in the middle seat get equal to what people in the bulkhead seat get?

When one airline charges $600 for a non-stop flight eastcoast to westcoast, AND they add on luggage charges, is it really that much better than what a "discount" plane offers for half the price?

And you KNOW that the comparable-dollar-worth of FF miles from one airline to the next is all over the map.

And one day airlines charge through the roof for seats they charged bargain prices the day before.

Who, exactly, gets what, exactly, for what they pay for? At what minute of what hour of what day?

What good would a 24 hour hold be if I then decided to purchase, and while purchasing the seats were sold to someone else?

The airline does not have the right to take 15 minutes of my time for nothing. They want all my information...they want me to read the fare rules...they want me to approve the terms....they want me to read about the trip insurance that they offer...they want me to sign up for frequent flier and phone alerts....at times they have even offered me a credit card. After I do all this they can tell me that the fare quote is no longer available? I don't think so, especially when they guarantee fare quotes for 24 hours.
The airlines are not in the habit, these days, of breaking their rules for anyone. Your mom dies, you still pay the $150 change fee, tough luck story or not. They obviously agreed that I had a valid point. I am sorry I have not convinced Patrick, but it is much more important to me to have convinced American Airlines.

P.S. Out of curiosity I just checked the fare and it was down again. When I click to continue, it immediately tells me that the chosen fare is no longer available. This I can accept. What I do not accept is going through with the entire booking process after a guaranteed fare quote has been offered, and THEN being told no, after they assigned me my seats, took my private phone number and my address and my credit card information and signed me up for their frequent flier card so that they can send me some spam.

I've looked on AA.com but I'm having a hard time finding the guarantee to which you refer.

The only guarantee I can find refers to finding lower fare the same day you purchase an AA ticket.

Q: What is the AA.com Lowest Fare Guarantee?
A: If you make a qualifying airfare purchase on AA.com and then find a lower American Airlines fare for the exact same itinerary on another Web site with a difference of $5 or greater, American will refund the difference in fare and give you a $50 Promotion Code to be used toward a future flight purchase. The lower fare may not be available on AA.com, and the claim form must be submitted by midnight Central Time on the same calendar day that the ticket was purchased on AA.com. The itinerary must also originate in the domestic 50 United States and be on American, American Eagle and AmericanConnection flights only, with purchase through the AA.com Web site.

Can you post a link to the guarantee you found? It would be hando to bookmark.

"People who get ripped off do not listen when things are explained to them".
WHAT? You are admitting that I was being "ripped off"?
I am listening to your explanations, I am just not agreeing with your conclusions. I AM THE ONE who knows how I spoke to the agent, NOT YOU. There is no reason to refer to me with such pompous attitude. My name is Tracy, not "people who have been ripped off". As I said, the airline ultimately agreed with ME, not you, so come down off your so-often-surfacing high horse.

I totally agree with you tracy!

When you "see" the flight listed, it is still up for grabs. Once you hit "Purchase" you have said "I'll take it" and it should be valid till you get all your info typed in. I know on one of the airlines I use, they tell you up front that you have 15 minutes to complete your purchase.

I don't think the analogies about taking pants off the rack apply here. It's more like you handed the sale pants to the cashier to ring up, and she handed them off to another customer while her register was printing the credit card slip.

As far as some people always getting the snippy agents - implying it is that customer's attitude- I say baloney! I am always nice to people on the phone, and often end up hearing all about their last trip to Hawaii etc. Even when I have a problem, I am totally nice, while firmly asking for a fair resolution. But I still get snippy agents on occasion, regardless of why I'm calling. Some people are just sour, and my way of dealing with them is to hang up and start over.

Tracy, you have shown what the real problem is here. You quoted me as saying "people who get ripped off. . ." and then you act like I admitted you got ripped off. Please go back and read that post. I said, "people who FEEL they got ripped off. . ."

See? That is the problem. You are only reading or hearing what you want to read or hear, and then you twist things. Isn't it logical to assume that you have twisted the actual events the same way you have twisted how you have quoted me?
You were clearly SO positive that the airline was wrong when you first called them, that it is impossible for me to imagine your listening to their explanation with an open mind. Clearly you still don't even understand what she was telling you because you are convinced that they should have guaranteed that if 400 people clicked to purchase that bargain seconds before you did, they still should have given you a seat too --even when none existed! That is just plain impossible!

You also say, "What good would a 24 hour hold be if I then decided to purchase, and while purchasing the seats were sold to someone else?"

I think you still aren't listening to us. If you put a ticket on hold for $250 and it shows as available, then they will NOT sell that seat to someone else in the next 24 hours. You can put it on hold at that price at 8 AM on Monday, and so long as it is still available by the time you click "on hold" then you have until 8 AM on Tuesday to go ahead an purchase. If at 5 PM on Monday you try to purchase and they tell you it is now gone or will cost more, then you have every right to scream bloody murder if you want. That's what their guarantee is for and they will NOT break that. Their guarantee is NOT that they will offer an unlimited number of seats at any given price until you happen to finish putting them ON HOLD. They will NOT guarantee that you have all the time in the world (and granted it can only take a minute or two for someone to buy the advertised ticket out from under you) to fill in the form with information and attempt to hold or purchase the seat. Do you get this yet??

Sorry, you think I am being pompous. But to be honest, your recent posts sound just as pompous or more so to me. But go ahead. It is clear that anyone who doesn't agree that it was all the airlines fault and that you were 100% right, is going to be nothing but a pompous ass. If I head that list because I've politely (although I'm tempted now to become less polite after being insulted the way I have been) tried to explain the LOGIC of all this, then so be it.

By the way, I'm not very computer literate, but can you explain HOW an airline (or any other business) can put your purchase on hold so it can't be sold to someone else the minute you decide you want it, but BEFORE you have entered your personal information to buy it -- or put it on definite hold? Perhaps there is a way for that to happen, but I honestly can't imagine how. That seems to be your main complaint here -- that you decided you wanted the fare, but before you could enter your information, someone else bought it. How could that be avoided??? I'm willing to listen.

By the way, please list the phrases I've used above in trying to explain what seems to me happened that make me "pompous". Any that are nearly as "rude" as these from you?


"There is no reason to refer to me with such pompous attitude."

"so come down off your so-often-surfacing high horse."
"so-often-surfacing" Wow! Not that was RUDE!

You're welcome to list a few of my posts here that show my "so-often-surfacing high horse". If this thread is an example of what you call that -- then I fully understand how any time I disagree with anyone and try to politely explain, that you would consider it such.