running red light in San Francisco
 

My husband ran a yellow light in San Francisco and he said he saw a flash. I think it turned red before we were past it.

What are the chances it photo-ed our rental car and we'll get charged for a ticket through Thrifty? I've checked our credit card statement and nothing yet (happened 2 1/2 weeks ago). Do rental car companies add any fees?

He googled how much a ticket is for running a light in SF and it seems it's in the $300-$400 range! REALLY??

paranoid...
sharie

Well, it happened to us in Arizona. The ticket was something like $200 and Hertz charged a $40 administrative fee. My husband is doing the on-line "class" to avoid the ticket.

Chances are good you'll be nailed (and the rental car agency has your credit card number on file). In SF, as far as I know, the penalty for a red light camera is about $480 or so. I have only been caught once -- the cop car I was behind abruptly stopped in mid-intersection at 15th & Mission and the officers got out to chase a suspect on foot. I got the fine dropped.

I guess the flat fine is more like $446 (+ any fee the rental car agency charges).

http://www.ecriteria.net/eCriteriaSe...eriaAction.asp

Well that link didn't work. You can look it up here.

http://www.photoenforced.com/

It's $100 for blocking the sidewalk even if there are 9 feet of sidewalk left between the back of the car and the street. I would expect a higher fee for running a light.

Oh my gosh. We're dead.

I guess the only up side is that we're expecting it, rather than getting the statement in the mail and freaking.

bluestar, Thanks for the photoenforced link! Wow... $446! I think we were on Market when it happened, but not sure.

Here's hoping there's an online course for us too, sf7307!

If the light was actually yellow when he started through, it was legal (just). So IF that was in fact what happened, the flash probably caught the car behind you. But IF it was red when your tire crossed the plane of the cross walk - then you will get the ticket (assuming your husband can clearly be identified in the picture). If the photo is blurry or not clear - there won't be a citation -- it is on the driver not the car. So they have to be able to see who is driving.

Being in the intersection in any way during a yellow is OK. Even if the light turns red while you are in the intersection. EXCEPT - if you are blocking the intersection because you entered w/o having a clear exit.

We were posting at the same time -- If the light actually was yellow there won't be a ticket. Very often a driver <i>thinks</i> it was still yellow, when it really was red . . . .

You give me hope!!! I am (almost!) sure it was yellow when we entered the intersection. I didn't see the flash, but when he told me about it a few days later, I did remember him going through a yellow that turned red. I think I would have panicked <i>at the time</i> if it had actually been red when he entered the intersection!

He's been wondering all along if it got the car behind him.

Any idea how long it would take to process and show up on our credit card statement?

It probably won't show up on the credit card. You would receive the ticket and a copy of the photograph from the SFPD (or more likely from the company that administers the program for them)

If there is a violation, they will get your contact info from the rental company through their records re who had the car on that date.

meant to add - I don't know how long that would take in SF, where I live in N. Calif., a normal red light violation takes 3 - 4 weeks to arrive. W/ a rental car involved -- I'd guess maybe 4-6 weeks.

Oh, so we've still got a bit to wait. DH was hoping that since it's been 2 1/2 weeks we might be in the clear since we've not heard anything yet.

I'd like to know how you know so much this?! Experience getting them or working for companies that GIVE them? :)

Neither :)

I went to all the hearings when our city council awarded the contracts for our red light program. Most CA cities operate the programs in similar ways.

A lot of people think the yellow triggers the cameras - but one has to actually enter the intersection on the red. In some cities the cameras also catch right turn violations. In most places right on red is perfectly OK -- IF one comes to a full stop behind the crosswalk first. If one rolls through a right turn on red w/o stopping, yep the cameras can catch that too.

OMG..we saw the flash too in SF last year..wife freaked but we had this big ol'truck in front of us and couldn't see the light until we were right past it..maybe they took that into consideration and hope for your sake they do the same..
rat bastard light cameras..I want to get that stuff you put over the plate that can't get the numbers..;)
Not that I condone running red lights..yellows are different.

It's a little known fact that in Florida, a light turning yellow seems to be an indication that you are supposed to speed up.

Same in Michigan, NeoPatrick! :-)

ksucat, no big truck in front of us, so excuses for us. Like NeoPatrick said, dh saw a yellow light and sped up!

Will let you all know when/if we get a ticket!

Taking a course doesn;t mean you don;t have to pay the ticket - you do. Taking the course will take the points off your license - and perhaps prevent your car insurance rate from rising.

And, yes - that's what a moving violation costs. Parking tickets start at $150 and go to $250 and up here if it's egregious (handicapped space or hydrant).

When I lived in SF back at the dawn of time, red lights were regarded as suggestions by locals, especially those of us who had cars with manual transmissions and lived on steep streets.

<<<Taking a course doesn;t mean you don;t have to pay the ticket - you do.>>>

True in California, but not so in Arizona.

I do not know the law myself, but this....<i>Being in the intersection in any way during a yellow is OK. Even if the light turns red while you are in the intersection</i>....is absolutely contrary to what a policeman told my friend when he pulled him over and gave him a ticket for doing just this (i.e. going into the intersection when the light was yellow, and still being in the intersection when the light turned red, even though he wasn't "blocking the box")

I've seen a flash too after I went through on a yellow. I never got a notice about the incident. I'm sure it shows me in the intersection too far when the light turned red which is why I never received the citation.

Being married to someone "in the know" , here is the scoop.

It takes about a month to receive the violation. You probably won't get one since you are an out of towner. It has to identify the face of the driver with your license picture in order for you to get the ticket in the mail.

Just because the light went off doesn't mean that you were in the wrong, the photo's are all analized. They take pictures all the time, so don't assume if you saw the camera flash that you are going to get a ticket.

That said, this is to a few of the comments above. You are right that if your front tires have crossed the line while the light is yellow, you are in the right of way, BUT, you are not allowed to gun the car 50 feet from the line so that you can accomplish this , this is speeding AND running a red light.

Please don't run red lights, in my city or yours. I have seen someone do what I just explained, went around another car to get through the intersection and ran into a stroller in the crosswalk on the other side, sending the 3 year old flying, with a lifetime of injuries. It was his first offense and he got off with a slap on the hand, unthinkable.

<<<It has to identify the face of the driver with your license picture in order for you to get the ticket in the mail>>>

This makes no sense. Of course you can get a photo-ticket even if your license is not issued by the State of California. The ticket is sent to the registered owner of the car based on the license plate info, the photo is so they can prove who was driving. We got just such a ticket in Arizona (we are licensed in California). The ticket went to Hertz and then was sent to us. Trust me, the person in the photo was my husband.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean your face has to match your license plate.

The "car" can not get a ticket, nor the 'registered owner'. The face recognition has to match you with the picture on your drives licence, in what ever state it was issued. For example, if I loan my car to my friend and they run a red light, I nor my car have to pay this ticket, nor do I have to tell them who was driving.

Arizona must have had access to California DMV info. The car was registered to Hertz, who told them who was driving, they did a cross check and bingo, it was your husband in the photo and on the drivers license.

"<i>I do not know the law myself, but this....Being in the intersection in any way during a yellow is OK. Even if the light turns red while you are in the intersection....is absolutely contrary to what a policeman told my friend when he pulled him over and gave him a ticket for doing just this (i.e. going into the intersection when the light was yellow, and still being in the intersection when the light turned red, even though he wasn't "blocking the box")</i>"

Did he tell you this or were you in the car w/ him? Maybe there is a bit of 'literary license' in your friend's description of what happened. Where was this? If your friend speeded up to make the yellow - then as susanna explained, he could get speeding and red light violations.

When I typed 'in any way' I knew some would take that literally -- there are always exceptions. But in general the rule is: enter the intersection on yellow and you are OK.

And I 100% agree w/ susanna - DON'T run red lights!!!!

I just loved it - as I said I attended all the hearings re installing cameras in my city. There were several. And the whining testimony we heard from folks saying it just isn't fair!, invasion of privacy!, police state!. My goodness -- if you don't run the light there is nothing to worry about. I just wish we had them at <u>every</u> intersection in town, instead of just a few high volume/high profile places.

I've been reading this thread with interest. And now my ds just told me that while riding his bike on campus, he was ticketed for failing to stop at a stop sign - $175!!! This will be thrown out if he attends a 45 minute safety class which he has already registered for. His explanation is that he stops at stop signs when necessary and in this case, no vehicles or pedestrians were around. My response was to ask him if it's okay for me to go through a red light if there are no other cars on the street. He thought this was a poor analogy. Call me mean mom, but I hope he learns something from the safety class! Some laws are for a damn good reason.

bikes have to follow the same laws?! (obviously I'm not a bike rider!)

Yes, but I've never heard of them being enforced before. Kind of like jaywalking.

Depends on WHERE. Some places pedestrian and cycling rules are really seriously enforced. Other places - not so much.

<i>My response was to ask him if it's okay for me to go through a red light if there are no other cars on the street.</i>

Some drivers do that in Turkey.

In Egypt they do it even if there <i>are</i> other cars on the street. Or pedestrians. Never seen anything like it. The only way to cross the street in Cairo is to attach yourself to an old person ("They didn't get old by being stupid").

Did you ever hear of 'more luck than brains?'

Did you ever hear of 'more luck than brains?'

Well, yes, but it really doesn't explain it -- seriously, there simply are NO, and I mean NO, rules of the road. You've heard of whitelining, for example, which is when motorcycles go in between slower lanes of cars (which is legal in California at least), well, in Cairo, they do that with cars! There are almost no stop lights in Cairo. On the ring road, they drive 60 mph, suddenly slam on their brakes and <i>back up</i> to pick up a pedestrian on the side of the road. They ride in jitneys (old Volkswagen vans) at 60 mph with the side door open and their legs hanging out. And on and on and on. I think the crazy traffic might have been more impressive than the Great Pyramid!

The remark referred to the old pedestrians, not the drivers.

I think Rome can be pretty bad too. I got hit by a car there as a passenger on a motorcycle - not very pretty! Come to think of it, I had more luck than brains then too!

In CA the registered owner is not required by law to identify the driver of the vehicle in the photo. Though the notification you receive appears to require you to do so it is not really a citation until it is issued by a court. If the notification says do not contact the court it means they have not identified the driver and the court has not yet issued a citation. If the car rental agency identifies you to the red light photo enforcement company and the court issues you a ticket then that's a different thing.

Here's a website with information about the photo enforcement:

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/


A person driving a car registered to us was caught by the photo enforcement system. We did not turn them in. Nothing further happened. This was more than a year ago. We've had no trouble registering our car.

The comment about having to ticket the driver and not the registerd owner may be true in some states. It is certainly not true in all of them. Several states specifically hold the registered owner responsible for tickets issued either to the vehicle or to the driver of a vehicle. I know that is true in at least some states that use photo enforcement. It is also true in some states that have transponder identification of vehicles using toll roads, bridges, or lanes.

I would guess that is universally true for parking violations. Otherwise, an officer or citation writer would have to wait for drivers to return and that is just not practical. From personal experience, I know that the only defense a registered owner has in such cases is that he/she did not own the vehicle at the time the citation was issued. The available defenses for a moving violation depend on the laws of the jurisdiction in which it was issued.

I responded based on my experience in CA since that's where the ticket was issued according to the OP.

My friend in LA got a ticket once for jaywalking. It does happen!