Suzie , my comment was not meant as criticism. Since we have participants on this forum from all over the country and world, I thought it was important to point out that the situation may vary from place to place.

Arizona not only has access to California DMV files, if you don't take the class they may report the points to California!

And yes, in Arizona you do have to pay the fine as well as take the class if you want to avoid points.

I know this by personal experience, unfortunately.

Although mine was for speeding not a red light. And it was a total speed trap.

At least in California they only do it for red lights.

One reason for heavy fines for running red lights in San Francisco: They have had a LOT of problems with pedestrians killed in crosswalks - crossing with the light - and are very keen to get people to respect traffic lights!

<<<They have had a LOT of problems with pedestrians killed in crosswalks - crossing with the light - and are very keen to get people to respect traffic lights!>>>

That's news to me (and I have lived and worked here for 36 years).

Admittedly, I live in the east Bay and only for 11 years, but I've certainly heard about it. At least periodically - not for a while.

But red light fines are hideous over here too. If you have to break a traffic law, that's one of the ones you really don't want to.

I really believe that the heavy fines for running red lights are because 1) you shouldn't run red lights, it is at least theoretically dangerous to do so, 2) they can and 3) to make money, probably in reverse order. Now you've piqued my interest, so I'll do a little research!

They are a cash cow for the contractor. The cities are lucky if they break even.

As to whether they have any effect on safety, that is open to dispute.

"<i> . . . it is at least theoretically dangerous to do so</i>"

'theoretically'?

Red light collisions are among the very worst. Being t-boned by an idiot racing through a red usually results in serious injury or death because it hits full force on the driver's or passenger's door/window.

sf7307 - I've read many stories in the Chron about the pedestrian accidents - but not any/many in the last 5 years. Perhaps they have done something to solve the problem by installing the cameras & charging heavy fines.

Lots of pedestrians & cars got hit by CalTrain trains this year (a couple of suspected teen suicides). Three weeks ago, the Chron reported a car in Redwood City was stopped on the RR tracks with several cars in front of him. I "guess" he knew that if a train came by, the traffic light would automatically turn green to let the cars get off the tracks. Well - the train came, the light turned green, but at the same time a fire truck (or ambulance) came by & the cars in front of him did not proceed through the intersecton when the light turned green. He was "pinned in" & hit by the train & killed. People do stupid things while driving.

Stu Dudley

I've read that most of the "robotickets" for red lights are the California stop ie rolling thru the red light on a right turn. Don't know if that' true or not, but not all red light violations are deadly.

Well a female pedestrian who was in the crosswalk was just killed last night in SF.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...th09.DTL&tsp=1

Oh, what terrible news! My dh was so tense driving through SF. The pedestrians and bicylists act like they own the city and just step out or wizz by you without looking.

(no ticket yet. It's been 4 weeks now)

Pedestrians have the right of way once they step down in the street within a cross-walk. That is theoretically true throughout California.

Lots of people with the right of way are in the cemetery. Just because you should have the right of way doesn't mean you should challange a car to make a point. Everyone should drive, bike and walk with caution. But those who don't have any steel encasement should be especially vigilent if they intend to live another day.

<i>The pedestrians ... act like they own the city and just step out</i>

The point is that one should not complain about pedestrians stepping out if they are in a cross-walk. And I agree that pedestrians should not assume that every driver will honor the rules.

As my father always said "you can be right, dead right".

Please people, be careful when in SF whether you are driving or are a pedestrian. And be sure to watch out for busses and trucks especially when they are turning from one street to another.

My only point was that the pedestrians were aggressive. They would anticipate when the crosswalk light would turn white (by watching the intersection light turn yellow) and then step out BEFORE they had the official light to cross.

Didn't their moms teach them to look both ways before they cross the street?

It's no different here in NY. When I'm driving, there are always people and bikes to look out for because they don't observe the laws and the lights and jump out wherever. And today, as a pedestrian, I was crossing a street with dh - with a green light - and a woman in a huge suv almost hit us. We were well into the crosswalk and had to jump back; she was in a hurry to make a turn that would take her to a red light at the next corner! It's a sore point for dh because his mother was hit by a truck and dragged while crossing with the light; she died instantly.

Oh how heart-wrenching!

mlgb: "<i>I've read that most of the "robotickets" for red lights are the California stop ie rolling thru the red light on a right turn. Don't know if that' true or not, but not all red light violations are deadly.</i>"

That is simply not true. The vast majority of cameras don't deal w/ right on red violations. In our city they are just now starting to install that sort. The cameras that do that are 3rd generation and only a very few cities have installed them yet. The vast majority of citations til now have been true red light violations. That may change as more cities invest in the newer models . . . .

Of Course - not EVERY red light violation is deadly. Heck, even a few folks who have jumped off the Golden Gate bridge have survived. But when someone IS hit by an idiot red light runner, their chances are pretty slim . . . .

I got a jaywalking ticket at LAX on the arrivals level crossing the road to the parking garage. I was hauling two rollaboards and walked the crosswalk against the light. A motorcycle cop stopped me on the other side and wrote me a ticket for $100.

So suppose you get a ticket for running a red light and go to traffic school. You get no points. Are you supposed to tell the insurance company? Suppose you change insurance. How do you answer the question of having received a ticket in the past x years?

(btw, the traffic school guy says that the yellow light just means that a red light is coming and the red light means stop if you haven't entered the intersection).

Where I live, bicycles can be a plague. They act as though they have the right-of-way over everyone, even pedestrians. They will run through the middle (not the beginning or end) of red lights, even on busy streets, and I saw one take out a pedestrian who was in a crosswalk with a green light - knocked the walker flat. Still, better odds for that than walking in front of a car. Even more troubling are the frequent pedestrians who cross just anywhere, any time, threading their way through moving cars. By absolute favorite are African Americans in black clothing who cross in the middle of the block on busy four-lane streets at night. It's not a race issue - it's just that there's no light color to draw your eye, and they're where they shouldn't be at a time when it's really tough to see them. I suppose a driver wouldn't be cited if s/he hit such a person, but who wants that on their conscience?

When I lived in Seattle, several years ago, motorcycle cops hung out downtown in the morning and wrote jaywalking tickets to some of the gazillions of office workers walking from the bus stops to work. These were not people taking any risk, other than that the light was red - it would always be in circumstances where there were no cars to be seen for blocks. Possibly the lights were timed so that jaywalking was likely to occur and the cops could write jaywalking tickets, who knows.

<i>Are you supposed to tell the insurance company? Suppose you change insurance.</i>

Until the State passes on the information to the insurance company, your record is clear. You go to traffic school and the information is not passed on. This information is therefore "non-existent" except in the county where the ticket was issued.

It is said that if you get a second moving violation within a prescribed period of time, you can still go to traffic school as long as the violation was in a different county. I have heard that even if the ticket was issued in the same county, signing up for traffic school in a different county will keep you from getting points.

It's been 6 weeks now and no bad news has arrived!

I bet that's a relief. Hope it continues.