Hi easytraveler

Thank you so much for all your advice!

Yes, can't wait for Utahtea to log in - gonna get much blasting over 'zipping' through Zion then, aren't I?!

OK, I will buy a big cooler when we get to Phoenix (but bring my ice-packs?) And I want one of those neckerchiefs!! I already have a little fan, which squirts water!! That'll be kept handy, along with the snake/insect venom extractor pump and the emergency travel johns!! LOL

You have me a bit worried about driving in the desert. I just thought you'd get into your airconditioned car and you wouldn't feel the heat! I guess it's very dry though, eh? We not unused to driving in high temperatures though - we driven a lot around southern Europe, including central Spain where it was 40 deg C most of the time - in our car, which has no air-conditioning!!

I (try to) drink about 2 litres of water a day here, in this darned cold climate - so better quadruple that in Arizona!

When I said 'zip' through Zion - what I really meant (because I know you can't do it justice by zipping) is that, if all else failed, we would at least get to see some of the park. Just can't do it all though, very unfortunately.

I have a $50 NP Pass! :) It has the Cascades and a mountain goat on it! :)

Oh, that petrified forest. Yep, I know how it forms - and have so much of the stuff up in the back bedroom, that I'm surprised that the ceiling hasn't fallen in! But I'd like to see it in situ. Actually, the reason for that bit of the trip is less petrified forest and more because of the White Mountain area. I thought it would be a good idea to get up there and cool off a bit. Isn't it worth a visit? Looks lovely. As does Oak Creek Canyon.

Just don't see how Canyon de Chelly can possibly fit in, I'm afraid. Maybe Monument Valley - but there's just no way. (I'm still looking at the map!)

If we manage this trip without too many problems, I plan for us to return and do an east to west coast trip when the hub retires! :) Now then, that'll be some itinerary!!!

Hi Syv

I hadn't seen your first message - I must've been whittering on in my last message when it arrived!

The driving distances don't sound too bad at all. We once drove from here to the Black Forest, Germany and got there (just) before dusk!!! That was silly though - way too far (about 600 miles). Haha - yes, plenty of twisty little narrow roads here - and we're used to driving on the wrong side of the road, over in the rest of Europe - the hub actually prefers it! I think our biggest problem is going to be getting our son out of bed early mornings, so that we can make early starts!

Oh, I'd love to do the horseriding into Bryce Canyon - but, to get there in the morning, we'd have to forgo the Desert Pearl Inn! (And I can't find anywhere decent still available at Bryce - lodge is full - as is Ruby's). I'm longing to get on a horse somewhere whilst on holiday. BUT, none of us have ever ridden a horse - so I don't know if 2 hours would be a very good idea! It would be wonderful to have a lesson or two though somewhere - and a quiet 'walk'. It would be great in the Canyon though!

So, definitely the Alt89, even if leaving from Wahweap (on the other side of the Glen Canyon Bridge) - so a switch back, rather than carry on?

You people have been SO helpful - thank you very much! :)

You poor dear... I do recall you started this post with "I ain't changing it again!!" about your route !!

;-)

That's too bad that lodging is already full to change your arrival time at Bryce.

2 hrs on horseback is a VERY slow walk just down the canyon & back. Not hard at all for inexperienced rider. Just a bit "scarey" at times since they are walking right on the EDGE of the cliff. Ohhhh.. did I forget to mention that little tidbit?? Ooops - so sorry (ha!)

You'll have a great time. No matter what routes you end up following.

Yes!! (to "I ain't changing a thing") - but I haven't as yet! :)

At the end of the day, decisions could be made for us. BA baggage handlers and check-in staff are threatening to strike around the date we're due to fly out. :(

Hi again, We rode in bryce but i know they have horse trails in zion, too. If you juggle your days around, you'll be able to do it.

And don't worry about what you call it.... exploring, 'zipping' by, a whirlwind tour....its all semantics. Just remember it sure beats the alternative! :) Whatever you end up seeing and doing will be wonderful. And once you get a taste of the american wild west you will definitely want to come back. We've done eight out west road trips and still want more more MORE! :)

wildblueyonder,
If you really want to see Meteor Crater and Petrified Forest, I think you should keep them in your itinerary - don't let other opinions sway you. We went to Meteor Crater last Aug. because my 10 year old son had read about it in a book and knew we'd be in the area. I was very hesitant because of the negative viewpoints, but went for his sake. While it wasn't the highlight of our trip, we enjoyed it very much. Be sure to take the guided talk along the rim for viewing and history - very interesting. My son was thrilled and we loved seeing it through his eyes!

We also went to Petrified Forest and I would again advise you not to miss it - it doesn't take long to drive through (about 2 hrs) along with some short hikes. We spent time at each Visitor Ctr to learn about geology, etc. Yes, you can see pieces of petrified wood at many local shops, but it is unbelievable to see these massive "trees" laying around. We enjoyed our time there (also has an area with amazing petroglyphs).

Bottom line: you need only about 2 hours at each place and if they hold some significance for you, IMHO you should go!

Just noticed you asked about Sunset Crater Volcano - we also went there and found it very interesting. Again 1 1/2 to 2 hrs should be sufficient, including walking the lava bed trail. There are great explanations of the different types of lava, formations etc.
We also did a bit of a whirlwind tour, but saw a lot of amazing sights and know where we'd like to return to some day! Good luck!

Well I'm from Arizona (born in Phoenix) and now live in Utah...so let's see if I can help. As you don't want to make changes I'll just offer my opinion. One thing to keep in mind though...Arizona's weather is very diverse. It will be very hot (100's) in Sept. in the Phoenix area. However as you head north, the weather will be cool and wonderful. So, bring shorts and a sweater or light jacket for evenings up north. The Canyon is very cool at night. I lived near Flagstaff (Williams) for several years, honeymooned at the Canyon where our friend was the Exec. Chef at the El Tovar. Sigh. BTW, Williams has the old historic train to the Grand Canyon that you can take which is fun. Now, you will enjoy Camelback Inn. As for a relaxing day two, you might enjoy exploring Scottsdale (you are right there in the area), and perhaps Tempe for shopping etc. Not too exciting, but you should enjoy them both, especially Scottsdale. As for Superior and Globe they are not exactly hot tourist stops, you will want to get up to Pinetop asap. That is the White Mountain area, and is cool and lovely. Day 4.. You will go through Flagstaff en route to Sedona, and that is enough. You will love Sedona and you should go to Oak Creek Canyon, (check out Slick Rock). You can see it in an hours time or so. Day 6...yes, you could see Sunset Crater on your way to the GC. BTW, Cameron and Grey Mountain are just basically pit stops with trading posts, nothing to do. The scenery is beautiful on your way back to Flagstaff, but desolate. This is Navajo Indian country, thus you will see many road side jewelry stands, please do stop and check out their wares and if possible make a purchase. You will be happy you did.
Now to Utah...I live in St. George, so you will be in my back yard so to speak. Springdale is the town at the entrance to Zion. It is a small cute little artist community. The other posters are right, you should spend at least a day at Zion...and a day at Bryce. But Zion is the best, be sure to take the "Narrows" hike (easy). As for Vegas, you are cutting yourself short here. Do go to the Venetian Hotel, it is a magnificent resort and well worth the walk through. There is a Guggenheim Museum there as well. The Paris buffet is one of our favorites and the Luxor is very different and worth a look. Everything is open late in Vegas. I don't gamble or drink, but go to Vegas for good food and shopping quite often. Anyway that's about it. If I can answer any specific questions or offer any more advise, please let me know.

Wow, a lot of driving. Only thing I can add is that you CAN'T climb Morro rock - it's illegal.

Hi all
Me again!! Rampant excitement here!! I just looked at Alt89 on the map - and I also did a search on here and there was a message to say you could Go In The Colorado?? Please! Where?? Lee's Ferry? Or beneath the Navajo Bridge? And is (are?) Cliff Dwellers Lodge worth looking at? Jacob Lake? Pipe Stpring Natl Monument?? (I think we'll be *doing* Bryce, the following morning! :))

Thanks BBear for the endorsements of P Forest, Meteor Crater and the Volcano place (name's slipped memory!) - I expect we shall be going there.

I'm trying to balance things so that nobody gets bored (as if!) and so that we have places to stop to force us to stop (if you see what I mean!) - or else we might be driving for hours on end, and that's no fun.

Time for some wine, here! :)

It's OK (re Moro Rock) - my kind of climbing, means taking the steps! I guess that's legal or they wouldn't have put the 400 steps there! :)
http://www.kevingong.com/Hiking/MoroRock.html
Yep, lots of driving, but no more than we would generally do in Europe. It's just different and unfamiliar, so lots of questions and a bit of anxiety. (Never driven a car with the wheel on that side either - or one without a gear-stick!)

Thanks for the tips, phandtf. Thank goodness somebody has at last said that the White Mountain area is worth a look! :) I wish we could find a cabin up there, actually - but they all require at least 2 nights reservations - so we're stuck with the BW! (I dream of a cabin, with a porch and a rocking chair! Oh, and my other dream is of a howdown (sp?)and tales by the campfire but everywhere we're going - but I'm still looking!)
LOL - no Superior and Globe aren't all that appealing, I suppose! But I like quirky things, so the Smallest Museum appeals - though Globe is a necessity to get to where we're going (although i red somewhere they have nicely coloured rocks, which are slag-heaps from the copper - be much more scenic than our black coal slag-heaps over here, I can tell you!)

I don't know what's going to happen with Zion/Bryce still - looks like it's just going to be a whirlwind of both. As for Vegas - well, people either love it or hate it, it seems - I don't think I will love it - but maybe. We were booked into the Luxor, at first - but then I read reviews about how long you have to stand in line to get your room keys - and how far it was to your room - and how long you had to wait to get to your car - and, as we're only there for a matter of hours, we cancelled and booked a place off the Strip. But we will certainly have a wander/drive/taxi ride up there in the evening. I'd like to see the white tigers! And the Bellagio fountain. Is Hoover Dam worth a detour? I don't suppose we'll have much time - but we could get a glimpse perhaps. I don't think they do full tours now, because of the security risk, do they?

If you are talking about Moro (one r) Rock in Sequoia National Park, you can definitely climb to the top (actually walk up steps)--we just did it 2 months ago. I don't like heights either, but it is a must see IMO. (I just don't look down while I'm walking.) People of all ages and abilities were there--if you get tired, just stop and rest for a while. You get a 360 degree view at the top.

I can't believe how long this thread is already--and you haven't even touched on California.

It really doesn't matter whether you are used to driving on the right side of the road or on the left side. Most parts of the desert, you'll have the road all to yourself and you can drive on whichever side of the road you choose! :) (Just kidding! Just kidding!)

Driving in the Southwest is not like driving through Spain or other parts of Europe. The most important difference is the scarcity of population in the SW. You will be driving through great swatches of desert where it's nothing but desert. It's really quite HUGE when compared with Europe and dwellings are few and far in-between. If you think twice the distance of anywhere in Europe, you'll be OK.

Last year, a European friend and I drove through parts of Europe. The first day we left Paris in the afternoon and were in Germany to spend the night. She declared that she never again wanted to drive that "great" a distance in one day - LOL! I, who live in California, thought of that as only a half day's drive and not strenuous at all! So, plan accordingly.

Don't worry about the desert. You'll be fine. Being in the airconditioned car is fine. Getting out of the car, the heat will hit you - POW! You should keep drinking water tho, people don't realize how quickly they can get dehydrated.

I prefer to err on the side of caution. Just to be cautious, plan to have things in case the car breaks down. Of course, the car wouldn't break down, but if it does, you need to be prepared. For example, a cell phone would be a good thing to have (however, did we get along without cell phones???)

Lots of Europeans come to the SW, drive around without incident, and they all return, hopefully happier for the experience. You'll be the same! There's enough traffic on the main highways that, should you ever have the need, help is not far away.

Enjoy your planning and, more especially, enjoy your trip! :)

Absolutely do Hoover Dam, you will find it facinating and it doesn't take that long. Dont' miss is this unique piece of American History.

Wow, wildblue, you're getting lots of advice. I won't complicated things. I'll just say that my first impression reading your original post was how much nicer the trip will be in September than it would have been in June. You'll find the weather more bearable and the crowds much lighter.
I'm going to second BBear's endorsements. We love the drive thru the lava fields at sunset crater, and even tho' we've done it several times I found a renewed interest when I returned to school (studying geography). We also enjoy petrified forest. If you stop in the visitors' center you can read binders full of letters people sent along with returned pieces of petrified wood they had taken illegally. And the science and history of meteor crater makes it worth the quick side trip.
I should also mention that my family loves the gift shop at Cameron trading post. We stop there on every trip to GC to have their Navajo tacos and by trinkets.
So enjoy your trip however you do or don't change it. Just make good notes of what you want to see and do next time. I don't know anyone who has been to this fabulous area who doesn't want to come back again and again. Some of us even decide to live here permanently.

We stopped for a quick break at Hoover's Dam- $5.00 to park, took peak over both sides, pictures, snacks, bathroom, and took off again. We weren't there 30-45 min, but I'm glad we stopped. They do have tours, but we had missed the last one for the day - don't think we would have gone anyway, but I did yrs ago. If you are interested in that type of thing, ck it out. As far as horseback riding, it looks like you may have time for it in Sequoia. We did it in Grant's Village, I believe. Also, Utahtea told me about the misters at Blue Moon Mist Company - I think that's their website also. I ordered several and used them - pump action and attach like tummy packs. Boy did they feel good. My car's AC wasn't great and there were times I would be misting myself driving w/ the AC on high and as cold as it would get. I don't care that it's "dry heat"; it's still HOT!

We recently did a three-week trip in the same area:
Las Cruces, New Mexico and White Sands National Monument
Tucson: Saguaro West National Park and Casa Grande
Phoenix
Sedona
Grand Canyon National Park (south rim)
Las Vegas (Hoover Dam is one the way)
Zion National Park (Springdale, Utah)
Bryce National Park
Arches National Park (Moab, Utah)
Brief drive through Canyonlands NP
Denver

I think Zion is more impressive than Bryce; be sure to take the tour at Hoover Dam (there's a parking garage on the west side of the dam); do some hiking in the parks; and above all, DO NOT underestimate the driving time. The US is huge and most Europeans simply cannot conceive of our space. I think that's why they want to visit the west--it's the one thing they don't have. It's over 1000 kilometers just across Texas!

A long thread indeed - that's because I chat too much! I think I'll start a couple of new ones! :)

The US is huge alright, but the distances won't be any bother. The daily mileage will be no different (in fact, probably less) than any we might do in Europe. The whole trip is less total mileage than our last trip to France, for example. But it's the unfamiliarity with things which will be different. As you say, vast stretches of nothing! I've bought a new mobile phone (cell phone), which (hopefully) works in the USA (triband) - so will keep fingers crossed that it will work if we need it!

I looked on the Blue Moon Mist Company webpage and had a pump and one of those neckerchiefs in my cart! They do ship internationally, but there appeared to be only one option ($8.95) and, as that would most definitely be surface, it would be cutting time a bit short - so didn't order in the end. Will look out for them when we're there!

Will definitely also have a look at the Hoover Dam too - thanks for the info!

I'm weighing up a route over the mountains, north of LA - rather than driving around LA on the interstate. Might save time; might not - certainly be more interesting though - but I'll make that a new thread. A new thread to ask about horseriding in Sedona too! :) (I found a couple of places, but they were VERY pricey!)

Hi! I just found this forum and am so excited about it. We are planning a similar trip in Sept. I have a question about the Monument Valley area. We have a Fodor's guide from 2002, Roland's B&B was listed in it, we could not get reservations at any of the places in Kayenta except this B&B. Does anyone know anything about it? Also, we have booked the 7 hour cruise out of Wahweap Lodge on Lake Powell. We debated taking the 6 hour Wilderness River Adventure but decided against it because my husband has a bad back and we thought it might be too long without a seat with a back support. If you could do only one trip which would you recommend? All the information given so far has been very helpful. I have taken tons of notes. Planning IS SO much fun! Have a wonderful trip!