Road Trip AZ, UT,NV,CA
 

Hi
I've only just found this forum and have spent a happy day reading through a lot of the messages and goggling at photos. Great stuff! We have a road trip planned for September. It will be our first time to the USA (from the UK) - and I've worked for months on the itinerary! We originally planned (and booked) for June, but, because of sickness (mine) we had to cancel everything - and now it's to be September! Just thought I'd check it out here - but please don't criticise it too much as I ain't changing it again!! (Sorry it will be a bit of a long message!)

Day 1: Fly into Phoenix, 2 nights at Camelback Inn
Day 2: Pick up car - try to recover from jetlag - so what is a gentle way to spent the rest of the day? Rawhide??
Day 3: Down to Superior, for the Smallest Museum in the World (and I have a thing about Apache Tears!) - then Globe and up to Pinetop-Lakeside. BW Pinetop Inn.
Day 4: To Petrified Forest. Then Meteor Crater. Then Sedona. 2 nights Hyatt Pinon Pointe. Look at Flagstaff on the way? Oak Creek Canyon? Or should we save that til tomorrow?
Day 5: Free in Sedona. Not sure how to spend it yet - but Red Rock Crossing is a must.
Day 6: Via Flagstaff (and Lowell?) to GC (not the Williams way - the other way). Time for Sunset Crater? (I'm a geology nut)
At GC, we have just one night in the Kachina Lodge, canyonside room. Perhaps we'll have time to walk an hour of the Bright Angel Trail? (Although I hate heights!)
Day 7: Try to get up for sunrise. Then to Desert View and Cameron and Lake Powell (maybe time for the Dinosaur Prints and Horseshoe Bend?) O'night at the Wahweap Lodge(or whatever they call it now. I don't think we'll have time to do anything - maybe Antelope Canyon? Would've loved to have seen Monument Valley, but can't do everything unfortunately.
Day 8: I'm a bit worried about this one - not sure if it's too far a trip. We will be staying the Desert Pearl Inn at Springdale, Zion - but hope to drive to Bryce on the way. Is that a bit far?
Day 9: To Las Vegas. Overnight off the Strip (not really our scene, but we will have a drive through). Westgate Flamingo Bay.
Day 10: To LA (stopping at Calico Ghost Town - anything else?). 2 nights at Marriott Renaissance Hollywood Hotel. Tonight we have tickets for the Hollywood Bowl!
Day 11: Free in LA. As well as the usual, want to do La Brea Tar Pits and drive down to the coast.
Day 12: Up to Sequoia and overnight at the Wuksachi Lodge. Climb Moro Rock on the way? (As already said - hate heights!)
Day 13: To Yosemite. We have booked a little house in Yosemite West for 2 nights.
Day 14: Free in Yosemite.
Day 15: To San Francisco. Actually staying in Oakland; Executive Inn and Suites for 2 nights.
Day 16: Free in SF
Day 17: Fly home.

A bit of a whistle-stop trip - hope it won't be TOO tiring! Any further suggestions and comments welcome please (but as said, I can't really change anything!)

Can somebody enlighten me about dinner in the USA please? If we have dinner in, say, the El Tovar (haven't booked as yet) - do we have to have 3 courses, or can we just have an entree or a salad?

Thanks for reading all this!

Hi, I can't help alot, but I'll offer this. Skip Flagstaff on Day 4, since you'll hit it on Day 6, and Day 4 has a lot already.

Also, at dinner, you can order whatever you want - they won't force you to order 3 courses.

I am visiting Arizona at the end of September, and can't wait! I couldn't get Kachina lodge in the GC, so I am staying at Yavapai.

Have a great trip.

Karen

Hi Karen
I had the Yavapai booked until yesterday as well! There suddenly appeared rooms available at the Kachina - so keep looking (although we would've been happy with the Yavapai).
Hope you have a great trip too!

It's too bad day 8 is driving through to ZION with barely time for BRYCE. These are two spectacular national parks, both very different from anything else.

Are you sure ;-) you can't work in more time to see ZION & BRYCE? Each could use at LEAST 1/2 day drive through.

The stops at meteor crator / sunset crater do not need to be long ...Although you are a geology nut which might delay your visit to look at a hole in the ground :-)

When you are at Petrified Forest, you'll also drive by Painted Desert area. Colourful photo stop.

Yes - you'll be tired by the end of your "whirlwind" tour but you'll be seeing a GREAT part of the USA.

Hi! Sounds like a well planned whirlwind trip!

A couple ideas: You can't just *stop* at Calico Ghost Town (unless it's reeeeally changed??) as its an amusement park for all day admission.

Also, while it is possible to stop at Bryce and still make it to Springdale, you will be *robbing* yourselves of some excellent viewing and hiking pleasures. You might want to shift your days around a wee bit to include *at least* 3/4 of a day at Bryce, then drive to Springdale, and have *at least* 3/4 of a day at Zion. (*At least* being the operative word.)

Whirlwind tours are the best. You'll have a great time!

Thanks to all for your replies!

I knew Bryce/Zion was going to be a problem. :( I originally had us booked into Ruby's Inn at Bryce and was just going to whizz through Zion on the way to Vegas. But then I saw the Desert Pearl Inn........ I don't know what can be done about it. We could drive straight from GC to Bryce (or nearer) and skip Lake Powell (ow!)? If it were up to me, I'd skip LA, but my son (movie-nut) would be totally distraught (and we want to visit the Build-a-Bear there! :) 2 middle-aged people and their grown-up son! LOL!)

Thank you very much for the info on Calico Ghost Town - don't want to be stopping there for longer than a glance - so will look for somewhere else to stop for some lunch! Preferably somewhere with rocks! :) (I'm doing a degree in geosciences!)

I need another day .....

But if we drive to Bryce from L Powell - and then have a drive/take the shuttle down the Canyon, couldn't we make it to Springdale by evening? We could then take the shuttle into Zion in the morning - and still get to Vegas by evening?

It's 5-1/2 hours driving Grand Canyon Village (centre) to Bryce Canyon National Park.

Then it's 3 hours (or less) from Bryce to Zion National Park.

Whew! You make me tired just reading this while I recover from an exhausting but wonderful trip to the southwest 2 wks ago, and we were in Yosemite/Sequoia/King's Canyon last summer. As I'm sure you realize, the more info you have and can plan the better use you can make of your time. Let's see if I can answer some of your questions or at least give you what we did.
Day 2 -Flagstaff-Got up at 3AM for sunrise hot air balloon ride in Sedona - definitely worthwhile. 2 hr Broken Arrow Pink Jeep tour also definitely recommend. Wish we had eaten at Cowboy Club in Sedona for cactus fries since I never heard of them anywhere else, but picnic lunch at Slide Rock State Park in Oak Creek Canyon and relaxing several hrs while boys played in natural water slide. Got to see scenery of Oak Creek Canyon on drive out since dark heading to Sedona for balloon flight. Dinner at Black Bart's Steakhouse and Musical Revenue-so/so but interesting. Star gazing program at Lowell Observatory interesting, but we were exhausted. Including the Spiderman movie, this was all in one day!
Day 3-5-Wapachi and Sunset Crater interesting, but minor. We hiked several of the trails, read all the info at Visitor's Centers. IMAX in Tuscayan before Grand Canyon esp. has great whitewater footage. Stayed in rimside cabins at Bright Angel which were fabulous! 2 dinners at El Tovar, 1 at Arizona room. I preferred food at Arizona room-incredible SW Caesar salad, steak. 2nd dinner at El Tovar I just got soup and salad. Breakfast each day in Bright Angel Lodge. Definitely get up for sunrise along rim trail, and if you need it to open your eyes, coffee shop in Bright Angel Lodge opens like at 5:30 AM. We took guided bus tours along east and west sides of south rim but too redundant and would only recommend along west and then drive yourself along east on exit out of park. Ranger programs wonderful, and if you really like geology, you should ck into this and maybe rest of group do something else. We did ranger programs on Condors and Fossils - very worthwhile. Hiked part of Bright Angel twice, and regret not doing more longer. Even if you are afraid of heights, you could try it. The path is not bad- just don't concentrate on over the edge, but I thought rock outcroppings were much scarier than trail. Wish we had so will have to return for this! Visitor's Center at GC out of the way and maybe not worth your time on such a tight schedule.
Day 6-7 Lake Powell Resort/Wahweap Marina Tour of Antelope Slot Canyon w/ Grand Circle Adventures very interesting and recommend. Ck out John Wesley Powell Museum website for times w/ various tour groups to suit your schedule. Sunset dinner cruise at lake on Canyon King - good prime rib, great scenery, commentary by captain of sites after dinner. Only ate breakfast buffet at resort which was great. Float trip on Colorado river next AM wonderful - my boys use to whitewater thought it would be boring, but fabulous scenery, relaxing, informative guide, and would highly recommend. Boat trip on lake through slot canyons disappointing - would not do this again. Boys also enjoyed tampoline at the lake beach if this is your thing!
Day 8-9 Bryce Canyon Just like Grand Canyon, you look into the canyon, and you must get down into them to really appreciate them. Did 3 hr ATV in Costo? Canyon which is similar and adjacent to Bryce which my boys really loved. I was praying alot! Stayed in cabins at Bryce, but fast food lunch at Ruby's - like fast food, but breakfasts and dinners at lodge very good. 2 hr horseback ride down into canyon really fun and interesting. Also more hiking since realized we didn't do enough at GC. Wonderful sunrises and sunsets.
Day 10-11 Zion Canyon -again in a cabin. This is like Yosemite where you drive to the valley and all this wonderful scenery is around you. IMAX and tubing on Virgin River in Springdale - enjoyable, but I hit most of rocks in the river and was exhausted after 2 hrs. Should have used my sons' idea of using sticks to fend tube off rocks! Hikes to Emerald Pools, Weeping Rock, and River Walk all easy. 2 hr free ranger bus tour in AM ok, but would use limited time hiking instead. Dinner at lodge great, lunch in snack shop ok, boys didn't like breakfast buffet in lodge. We had wanted to hike the Narrows, but I decided not to since didn't feel prepared and moderate chance of flash floods. Biggest mistake of trip since should have rented poles/insulated boots in Springdale 1st day when flash flood danger low and did IMAX and tubing on 2nd day.
Day 12- Las Vegas Cked out sights, but so hot and crowded. Monorail should be running now; we missed it by a wk. IMAX in Luxor on NASCAR wonderful, and I'm not a car racing fan! King Tut exhibit interesting, but ride in search of obelisk confusing. Tiger exhibit at MGM-they were asleep and looked dead. Didn't go to Shark exhibit at Mandalay Bay since decided too expensive. Security guard gave us comp tickets to roller coaster at New York/New York so enjoyed free ride but would not recommend it for cost. Statue show at Caesar's Palace Forum not worthwhile except for very small children. Bellagio's fountains fabulous even to "cool" teenagers and are a must see. Blue Man Group which was entertaining, but I wonder if worth the cost, but then everything is expensive here! Feet too tired at this point to go to Mirage, but I have seen the volcano before.
Day 12 Flew children back to east coast
Day 13 Flew back to Arizona by myself. In next several days, toured Petrified Forest/Painted Desert area which was very interesting, but doesn't take a lot of time. Drove through ShowLow and on to Pinetop/Lakeside area for dinner at Christmas Tree Restaurant - fabulous chicken and dumplings! Also had great lunch in Pine (2 towns close by each other but pass Payson)at ? House Restaurant after hiking at Natural Bridge State Park. On to Camp Verde, Montezuma's Castle, and Jerome which was very interesting "ghost" mining town which is now an artist colony. I flew in/out of Phoenix for the 2nd trip so you could do these areas which are only 2-2 1/2 hrs from Phoenix and escape the heat and the city!
Whew!
Yosemite and Sequoia are also wonderful, and we also stayed in Yosemite West and Wuksacki Lodge. If you have time, tour the Mariposa Grove either into Yosemite West or on your way out. Definitely recommend the tram tour in Yosemite Valley for lots of info, very enjoyable and also the one in Mariposa Grove if you go there. Great viewpoint and short hike near Yosemite West w/ turnoff on opposite side of road - Glacier Pt ?. Definitely hike some, ck out the ranger programs- we enjoyed one at night about the old Firefall. Moro Rock isn't bad and there are benches to sit on if you don't like the height. Crystal Cave was also interesting, but I don't think you will have time. Dinner at lodge in valley very good, and breakfast great in cafeteria there. Sequoia NP much cooler, and went horseback riding along giant trees. Trees in several different groves, but definitely follow trail - maybe a mile - through main grove. (Hope I'm not confusing Mariposa and Sequoia here!) Breakfast and dinner at Waksachi very good. Woke w/ deer herd right outside window in AM.
Sorry this is so long, but so much info, and I loved these trips so much. Have a fabulous time!

Thanks, wildblue! I do keep checking the NPS website, looking for a cancellation for a rim lodge, but no luck yet. I have 2 months yet, so I'll keep trying!

Karen

Nice trip!! Wish I could go along! :)

It's too bad you can't change your plans, as you are missing some of the best of that part of the country, yet going by them - Monument Valley and that most beautiful of canyons: Canyon de Chelly. If it were me, I'd skip the Petrified Forest and Meteor Crater. You'll be driving over so much desert that these two would just be more of the same.

On the California part of the trip, you are sort of backtracking going from Las Vegas to LA and then from LA to Sequoia (Too much of boring desert driving, IMHO). If you could change your plans a bit, I'd suggest going from Las Vegas through Death Valley, another terrific geologic vista, on up Highway 395 to Yosemite, then down through Sequoia to LA.

From LA you can speed up Interstate 5 in one day to SF, or take a couple of days and go along the coast through spectacular drives, especially along Big Sur.

At Sedona, Arizona, I was going to suggest that you climb up Bell Rock to view the sunset. Truly breathtaking! But then you said something about not liking to hike. Forget it then! :) Maybe the men in your family would want to do that.

Have a great trip!

Wow, Momof3Boys - you had some trip there! And it's what I would call "very active"!! Thanks very much for all of the suggestions - I will certainly bear them all in mind. (I have bookmarked the Cowboy Club website - though not sure about the cactus fries - or (even less) about the rattlesnake!).

I'm not sure whether I'm up to trampolining at Lake Powell!! LOL!

I am very excited about the trip - and you've whetted my appetite even further - and I was already ravenous!!

Momof2boys! :)

Hi! Sounds like a great trip! However, i agree with some of the above posters: I would definitely skip sunset crater and also make time for zion and monument valley. I think that's possible too...

On day 6, i would drive directly to the GC and stay overnight. (IMO, theres not much in Flagstaff anymore.)Unless you're doing some long hikes, that's enough time for Bright Angel.

On day 7, i would leave early (after seeing sunrise) and drive directly to Kayenta or Gouldings area, to see Monument Valley area. OR, if you must skip it, then head to Page and see Antelope Canyon, a tour done within and hour or so. As you head back to Bryce/Zion, (take 89ALT) you will go past Vermilion Cliffs, another gorgeous area.

By the way, Cameron is just a motel, restaurant and huge gift shoppe, ok for a pit stop but nothing more. If you do get to monument valley, Gouldings is the best place to stay but likely full by now. Kayenta has chain lodging and we stayed in their Holiday Inn our 2nd time there when gouldings was full. Actual views from there, too.

Day 8 - Drive to Bryce Canyon and explore as much as possible. If you have ressies in Zion at Desert Pearl (WONDERFUL place) then keep those.

Day 9 - See as much as Zion as possible, driving to Vegas later in the early evening. Since vegas isn't your scene, the later day drive will be easier in the heat and give you maximum time in the canyon area.

By the way, on day 5 in sedona, i would highly recommend taking a Pink Jeep Tour thru the canyon; its amazing!

And to really confuse you lol, as an afterthought, you might want to skip Petrified Forest on day 4 (not at all what is used to be, sadly), get to sedona earlier and stay only night, two days in sedona. That would free up another night to be used in the bryce/zion/page/monument valley area. That's probably what i'd do!

Whatever you do will be awesome and forever memorable. Happy planning!

Good luck with that, Karen. I hadn't been checking regularly - and then I just looked and there it was! :) The Yavapai will be fine though - I have a friend who was there last month and he said it was extremely comfortable, and nice and quiet, with easy parking - and the air-conditioning, of course! He didn't go much on the cafeteria though - and recommended (highly) the El Tovar and Bright Angel Restaurant instead.

Hi easytraveler
Thanks for your suggestions. I feel like saying, "Been there, done that", but I haven't really - only in my plans!! We had originally booked for June and, fearing the Tioga Pass might not be open, we were going to drive down (from Death Valley) and around the Sierras. Los Angeles had been nowhere in my plans! Then we had to change to September, so the pass will be open - but, the reason we had to change was because I have a blood condition, in which dehydration is dangerous - so we thought to skip Death Valley anyway (just in case). Well, I know that there are plenty of other deserts on the trip - but this one was perhaps one too many!! (BTW, while on this subject, should I bring a cooler [a bag variety] or would it be better to buy one when we get to the States?)

Up to a few weeks ago, there was going to be even more desert - as we were booked in at Tucson for 2 nights (after Phoenix) - but I thought to change that and go over the mountains, for a bit of 'cool'. I know they're nothing much to a lot of people - but the Petrified Forest and Meteor Crater are just places I dream of seeing ...

And Bell Rock! I don't mind hiking (much more so than the men who will be with me!) - but I do mind heights!! Is that close to the airport road? I had that pencilled in for the sunset.

This forum is getting addictive - I should be studying! :)

Oh dear - there's much thumbing going on between Arizona and Utah in my Collins Road Atlas of the USA right now! LOL!!

Gouldings are full - your're right, ellen. (Phew, don't have to think to hard on that one then! :)) I think Monument Valley will be one of those play by ear things. We might get there; we might not - depends how we feel and how things go. If we do, we'll still get time to stay in Wahweap for the overnight, won't we? Or, if we go straight to Page from GC, how long will that take (with a short stop at Desert View and a quick look in Camerons)? I have NO idea about the roads in the US!

I hadn't actually considered using ALT89 - was going to go on 89. Should we change to the ALT? I see the .... dots on the road, so I guess it's scenic, but is it quick - or is it easy going?

I have had a thought on Zion/Bryce, without changing anything! :) How about if we drive straight from Page to Zion (not via Bryce, that is) on Day 8. If we're early enough, we can take the shuttle into the park for a lot of the evening (what time is 'dark' in September??. Then in the morning, we can drive to Bryce and journey to Vegas straight from there. We'd be there in time to see something of Vegas still (or my son would be disappointed) - although our accommodation there has a washer and dryer and I planned to do some laundry! :)

I thought of staying in Kanab instead of Wahweap - although Lake Powell is another of those places which I have always dreamed of seeing. How about this though, for a stay-over for a rock freak?!? http://www.kanabutahlodging.com/kanab-lodging.html
:) :)
I should've booked another week ...

Would love to read a trip report when you get back.

I'm especially interested in your thoughts on Meteor Crater if you go there. We thought it was very commercial and just a big hole in the ground when we were there about 30 years ago. Admittedly, geology is not high on our list of interests, so would love to hear if it is really a place of interest for those who do love geology.

Hi maj
A fellow student (another very mature one!) went to Meteor Crater a few weeks back and his opinion of it was much as your opinion 30 years ago! Like me though, he felt he *should* go - as we've done heaps of stuff on craters and how they form. I bought a little tiny piece of the meteor off some website in Arizona, a few years back - so that's another reason to go - to see where it was *born* (although we'll never know where it came from, will we??) It's on the route anyway, so a small detour won't hurt (and we're prepared enough not to be too disappointed). They'd better not charge too much! :) My tutor, btw, suggested, when I mentioned it to him - that the best view of Meteor Crater was from a satellite!!
I will certainly try to do a trip report when we get back, of anybody would be interested!

Yes change to ALT89.

September "dark" shouldn't be till 9:00 pm or so.

The shuttle at Zion runs late (at least 9:00-9:30 pm) according to the national park website schedule so an evening visit there would at least get you a "drive-through". www.nps.gov

Page to Zion Nat'l Park is 3 1/2 - 4 hrs. An easy drive. You'll be able to spend the rest of the day at Zion.

(just a thought -- If you left Page "bright & early" you could be at Zion by noon, spend the afternoon there, and drive to Bryce that same evening)

Zion to Bryce is 3 hrs.


If you decide to go to Bryce in the evening, and see Bryce first thing in the morning -- I highly recommend the 2-hour horseback ride to the floor of the canyon & back up. It leaves at 9:00 a.m. so you'd have to be there the evening before, ready to go in the morning.

www.canyonrides.com

You could then leave Bryce after the horseback ride & drive to Vegas.

Bryce to Las Vegas is 4-1/2 - 5 hrs drive.

The time of day to drive "the strip" of Las Vegas is after supper ("dusk"). That's when all the lights & glitter look most exciting.


I don't think you will have a problem driving in the USA (other than being on the "wrong" side of the road). If you are from the UK, you are probably used to twisty, narrow roads! The area you'll be driving will be fine.

Heavy traffic will be an issue in L.A., making it harder to watch road signs, be in the correct lane in time for your turn-off, etc.

You'll come to realize how HUGE the USA is compared to the UK, once you see driving distances between places, and yet you are seeing such a TINY part of the whole USA.

Enjoy the trip though. It will be hectic & busy, yet memories to last a lifetime! If you can get up & going early each morning, you'll make the most of your day & be able to relax in the evening knowing you've reached your destination. We travel this hurried, whirlwind way all the time & LOVE it.

Hi, wildblueyonder!

Planning is soooo much fun!! >:D<

You are getting some superb advice - just wait till Utahtea checks in! She's the ultimate guru for that part of the country!!

Again, I'd suggest skipping the Petrified Forest. The name is far more alluring than the place. It's just more dry rocks after you have been driving hours through dry rocks -lo! The only difference is that these rocks were trees many eons ago. There are petrified rock art objets sold in many parts of Arizona - they'll give just as good an idea of what's out there in the "Petrified Forest".

Because of the length of driving through the desert, you need to plan on good destinations and nice/interesting places to stay. For example, I very much second ellen's opinion that Cameron is just a "pit stop". Also skip Flagstaff. And, unless it's on the way, skip Oak Creek Canyon too, since you are going to the Grand Canyon and the scenery is better on the drive to the Grand Canyon - just MHO.

Again, highly suggest you look into Monument Valley and Canyon de Chelly.

As for Tioga Pass, I drove through it last September and it was fine. September is still too early for such heavy snowfall as to close the mountain passes. Going along Highway 395 is alpine country. You'll be glad to be in alpine country after all that desert!

The water situation: I'd suggest not bringing any coolers. Buy one when you get to Phoenix. You can get a good-sized one for about $20-$30 dollars at a Target store or a large grocery store. You can leave this cooler behind when you return home.

Also buy a case (four 6/8 packs) of bottled water. Place about half of these in the cooler with some ice. Best drink in the desert is water. Soft drinks just make you thirstier.

In Arizona, they also sell "neckerchiefs", these are large bandanas that you tie around your neck. They are filled with some kind of material that stores coldness. You put these neckerchiefs in the cooler in the ice, they cool down, then you wear them around your neck (the neckerchief, not the cooler!). These are wonderful for keeping the body temperature down.

Bring a wide-brimmed hat that will shade your neck. I have a foldable one that I got in Asia. Make me look like I'm wearing a lampshade - but, heck, it shelters me from the sun!

Make doubly sure that the air conditioning in your car works!!!

Other ways to keep cool: bring/buy a small fan, drive early in the morning or late at night - avoid driving during the peak hot hours - , buy a small spray bottle and spray yourself with "mini-showers" in the middle of the desert (your skin will be forever grateful!); and, if you must stop, try and find some shade, like an overpass or - gasp! - a tree!

Finally, somewhere you said you wanted to "zip through Zion". Ummm, you really can't "zip" through Zion, and even if you could, you wouldn't want to. Both Zion and Bryce are, as Syv has said, worth half a day's stop/drive.

BTW, you are going through so many national parks, you might want to calculate whether it's cheaper getting the annual pass for national parks. I know the price has gone up (We need to fund the war in Iraq somehow! Just kidding!), but it still might be worth it instead of paying individual park entrance fees.

Keep on planning! :)

Yes easytraveler - I forgot to mention to get the NATIONAL PARKS PASS for $50 per vehicle.

Bryce is $20 per car, Grand Canyon is $20, Zion is $20 --- so you've already saved money with a PASS just with these 3 parks.

https://buy.nationalparks.org/default.asp?ref=nps

Hi easytraveler

Thank you so much for all your advice!

Yes, can't wait for Utahtea to log in - gonna get much blasting over 'zipping' through Zion then, aren't I?!

OK, I will buy a big cooler when we get to Phoenix (but bring my ice-packs?) And I want one of those neckerchiefs!! I already have a little fan, which squirts water!! That'll be kept handy, along with the snake/insect venom extractor pump and the emergency travel johns!! LOL

You have me a bit worried about driving in the desert. I just thought you'd get into your airconditioned car and you wouldn't feel the heat! I guess it's very dry though, eh? We not unused to driving in high temperatures though - we driven a lot around southern Europe, including central Spain where it was 40 deg C most of the time - in our car, which has no air-conditioning!!

I (try to) drink about 2 litres of water a day here, in this darned cold climate - so better quadruple that in Arizona!

When I said 'zip' through Zion - what I really meant (because I know you can't do it justice by zipping) is that, if all else failed, we would at least get to see some of the park. Just can't do it all though, very unfortunately.

I have a $50 NP Pass! :) It has the Cascades and a mountain goat on it! :)

Oh, that petrified forest. Yep, I know how it forms - and have so much of the stuff up in the back bedroom, that I'm surprised that the ceiling hasn't fallen in! But I'd like to see it in situ. Actually, the reason for that bit of the trip is less petrified forest and more because of the White Mountain area. I thought it would be a good idea to get up there and cool off a bit. Isn't it worth a visit? Looks lovely. As does Oak Creek Canyon.

Just don't see how Canyon de Chelly can possibly fit in, I'm afraid. Maybe Monument Valley - but there's just no way. (I'm still looking at the map!)

If we manage this trip without too many problems, I plan for us to return and do an east to west coast trip when the hub retires! :) Now then, that'll be some itinerary!!!

Hi Syv

I hadn't seen your first message - I must've been whittering on in my last message when it arrived!

The driving distances don't sound too bad at all. We once drove from here to the Black Forest, Germany and got there (just) before dusk!!! That was silly though - way too far (about 600 miles). Haha - yes, plenty of twisty little narrow roads here - and we're used to driving on the wrong side of the road, over in the rest of Europe - the hub actually prefers it! I think our biggest problem is going to be getting our son out of bed early mornings, so that we can make early starts!

Oh, I'd love to do the horseriding into Bryce Canyon - but, to get there in the morning, we'd have to forgo the Desert Pearl Inn! (And I can't find anywhere decent still available at Bryce - lodge is full - as is Ruby's). I'm longing to get on a horse somewhere whilst on holiday. BUT, none of us have ever ridden a horse - so I don't know if 2 hours would be a very good idea! It would be wonderful to have a lesson or two though somewhere - and a quiet 'walk'. It would be great in the Canyon though!

So, definitely the Alt89, even if leaving from Wahweap (on the other side of the Glen Canyon Bridge) - so a switch back, rather than carry on?

You people have been SO helpful - thank you very much! :)

You poor dear... I do recall you started this post with "I ain't changing it again!!" about your route !!

;-)

That's too bad that lodging is already full to change your arrival time at Bryce.

2 hrs on horseback is a VERY slow walk just down the canyon & back. Not hard at all for inexperienced rider. Just a bit "scarey" at times since they are walking right on the EDGE of the cliff. Ohhhh.. did I forget to mention that little tidbit?? Ooops - so sorry (ha!)

You'll have a great time. No matter what routes you end up following.

Yes!! (to "I ain't changing a thing") - but I haven't as yet! :)

At the end of the day, decisions could be made for us. BA baggage handlers and check-in staff are threatening to strike around the date we're due to fly out. :(

Hi again, We rode in bryce but i know they have horse trails in zion, too. If you juggle your days around, you'll be able to do it.

And don't worry about what you call it.... exploring, 'zipping' by, a whirlwind tour....its all semantics. Just remember it sure beats the alternative! :) Whatever you end up seeing and doing will be wonderful. And once you get a taste of the american wild west you will definitely want to come back. We've done eight out west road trips and still want more more MORE! :)

wildblueyonder,
If you really want to see Meteor Crater and Petrified Forest, I think you should keep them in your itinerary - don't let other opinions sway you. We went to Meteor Crater last Aug. because my 10 year old son had read about it in a book and knew we'd be in the area. I was very hesitant because of the negative viewpoints, but went for his sake. While it wasn't the highlight of our trip, we enjoyed it very much. Be sure to take the guided talk along the rim for viewing and history - very interesting. My son was thrilled and we loved seeing it through his eyes!

We also went to Petrified Forest and I would again advise you not to miss it - it doesn't take long to drive through (about 2 hrs) along with some short hikes. We spent time at each Visitor Ctr to learn about geology, etc. Yes, you can see pieces of petrified wood at many local shops, but it is unbelievable to see these massive "trees" laying around. We enjoyed our time there (also has an area with amazing petroglyphs).

Bottom line: you need only about 2 hours at each place and if they hold some significance for you, IMHO you should go!

Just noticed you asked about Sunset Crater Volcano - we also went there and found it very interesting. Again 1 1/2 to 2 hrs should be sufficient, including walking the lava bed trail. There are great explanations of the different types of lava, formations etc.
We also did a bit of a whirlwind tour, but saw a lot of amazing sights and know where we'd like to return to some day! Good luck!

Well I'm from Arizona (born in Phoenix) and now live in Utah...so let's see if I can help. As you don't want to make changes I'll just offer my opinion. One thing to keep in mind though...Arizona's weather is very diverse. It will be very hot (100's) in Sept. in the Phoenix area. However as you head north, the weather will be cool and wonderful. So, bring shorts and a sweater or light jacket for evenings up north. The Canyon is very cool at night. I lived near Flagstaff (Williams) for several years, honeymooned at the Canyon where our friend was the Exec. Chef at the El Tovar. Sigh. BTW, Williams has the old historic train to the Grand Canyon that you can take which is fun. Now, you will enjoy Camelback Inn. As for a relaxing day two, you might enjoy exploring Scottsdale (you are right there in the area), and perhaps Tempe for shopping etc. Not too exciting, but you should enjoy them both, especially Scottsdale. As for Superior and Globe they are not exactly hot tourist stops, you will want to get up to Pinetop asap. That is the White Mountain area, and is cool and lovely. Day 4.. You will go through Flagstaff en route to Sedona, and that is enough. You will love Sedona and you should go to Oak Creek Canyon, (check out Slick Rock). You can see it in an hours time or so. Day 6...yes, you could see Sunset Crater on your way to the GC. BTW, Cameron and Grey Mountain are just basically pit stops with trading posts, nothing to do. The scenery is beautiful on your way back to Flagstaff, but desolate. This is Navajo Indian country, thus you will see many road side jewelry stands, please do stop and check out their wares and if possible make a purchase. You will be happy you did.
Now to Utah...I live in St. George, so you will be in my back yard so to speak. Springdale is the town at the entrance to Zion. It is a small cute little artist community. The other posters are right, you should spend at least a day at Zion...and a day at Bryce. But Zion is the best, be sure to take the "Narrows" hike (easy). As for Vegas, you are cutting yourself short here. Do go to the Venetian Hotel, it is a magnificent resort and well worth the walk through. There is a Guggenheim Museum there as well. The Paris buffet is one of our favorites and the Luxor is very different and worth a look. Everything is open late in Vegas. I don't gamble or drink, but go to Vegas for good food and shopping quite often. Anyway that's about it. If I can answer any specific questions or offer any more advise, please let me know.

Wow, a lot of driving. Only thing I can add is that you CAN'T climb Morro rock - it's illegal.

Hi all
Me again!! Rampant excitement here!! I just looked at Alt89 on the map - and I also did a search on here and there was a message to say you could Go In The Colorado?? Please! Where?? Lee's Ferry? Or beneath the Navajo Bridge? And is (are?) Cliff Dwellers Lodge worth looking at? Jacob Lake? Pipe Stpring Natl Monument?? (I think we'll be *doing* Bryce, the following morning! :))

Thanks BBear for the endorsements of P Forest, Meteor Crater and the Volcano place (name's slipped memory!) - I expect we shall be going there.

I'm trying to balance things so that nobody gets bored (as if!) and so that we have places to stop to force us to stop (if you see what I mean!) - or else we might be driving for hours on end, and that's no fun.

Time for some wine, here! :)

It's OK (re Moro Rock) - my kind of climbing, means taking the steps! I guess that's legal or they wouldn't have put the 400 steps there! :)
http://www.kevingong.com/Hiking/MoroRock.html
Yep, lots of driving, but no more than we would generally do in Europe. It's just different and unfamiliar, so lots of questions and a bit of anxiety. (Never driven a car with the wheel on that side either - or one without a gear-stick!)

Thanks for the tips, phandtf. Thank goodness somebody has at last said that the White Mountain area is worth a look! :) I wish we could find a cabin up there, actually - but they all require at least 2 nights reservations - so we're stuck with the BW! (I dream of a cabin, with a porch and a rocking chair! Oh, and my other dream is of a howdown (sp?)and tales by the campfire but everywhere we're going - but I'm still looking!)
LOL - no Superior and Globe aren't all that appealing, I suppose! But I like quirky things, so the Smallest Museum appeals - though Globe is a necessity to get to where we're going (although i red somewhere they have nicely coloured rocks, which are slag-heaps from the copper - be much more scenic than our black coal slag-heaps over here, I can tell you!)

I don't know what's going to happen with Zion/Bryce still - looks like it's just going to be a whirlwind of both. As for Vegas - well, people either love it or hate it, it seems - I don't think I will love it - but maybe. We were booked into the Luxor, at first - but then I read reviews about how long you have to stand in line to get your room keys - and how far it was to your room - and how long you had to wait to get to your car - and, as we're only there for a matter of hours, we cancelled and booked a place off the Strip. But we will certainly have a wander/drive/taxi ride up there in the evening. I'd like to see the white tigers! And the Bellagio fountain. Is Hoover Dam worth a detour? I don't suppose we'll have much time - but we could get a glimpse perhaps. I don't think they do full tours now, because of the security risk, do they?

If you are talking about Moro (one r) Rock in Sequoia National Park, you can definitely climb to the top (actually walk up steps)--we just did it 2 months ago. I don't like heights either, but it is a must see IMO. (I just don't look down while I'm walking.) People of all ages and abilities were there--if you get tired, just stop and rest for a while. You get a 360 degree view at the top.

I can't believe how long this thread is already--and you haven't even touched on California.

It really doesn't matter whether you are used to driving on the right side of the road or on the left side. Most parts of the desert, you'll have the road all to yourself and you can drive on whichever side of the road you choose! :) (Just kidding! Just kidding!)

Driving in the Southwest is not like driving through Spain or other parts of Europe. The most important difference is the scarcity of population in the SW. You will be driving through great swatches of desert where it's nothing but desert. It's really quite HUGE when compared with Europe and dwellings are few and far in-between. If you think twice the distance of anywhere in Europe, you'll be OK.

Last year, a European friend and I drove through parts of Europe. The first day we left Paris in the afternoon and were in Germany to spend the night. She declared that she never again wanted to drive that "great" a distance in one day - LOL! I, who live in California, thought of that as only a half day's drive and not strenuous at all! So, plan accordingly.

Don't worry about the desert. You'll be fine. Being in the airconditioned car is fine. Getting out of the car, the heat will hit you - POW! You should keep drinking water tho, people don't realize how quickly they can get dehydrated.

I prefer to err on the side of caution. Just to be cautious, plan to have things in case the car breaks down. Of course, the car wouldn't break down, but if it does, you need to be prepared. For example, a cell phone would be a good thing to have (however, did we get along without cell phones???)

Lots of Europeans come to the SW, drive around without incident, and they all return, hopefully happier for the experience. You'll be the same! There's enough traffic on the main highways that, should you ever have the need, help is not far away.

Enjoy your planning and, more especially, enjoy your trip! :)

Absolutely do Hoover Dam, you will find it facinating and it doesn't take that long. Dont' miss is this unique piece of American History.

Wow, wildblue, you're getting lots of advice. I won't complicated things. I'll just say that my first impression reading your original post was how much nicer the trip will be in September than it would have been in June. You'll find the weather more bearable and the crowds much lighter.
I'm going to second BBear's endorsements. We love the drive thru the lava fields at sunset crater, and even tho' we've done it several times I found a renewed interest when I returned to school (studying geography). We also enjoy petrified forest. If you stop in the visitors' center you can read binders full of letters people sent along with returned pieces of petrified wood they had taken illegally. And the science and history of meteor crater makes it worth the quick side trip.
I should also mention that my family loves the gift shop at Cameron trading post. We stop there on every trip to GC to have their Navajo tacos and by trinkets.
So enjoy your trip however you do or don't change it. Just make good notes of what you want to see and do next time. I don't know anyone who has been to this fabulous area who doesn't want to come back again and again. Some of us even decide to live here permanently.

We stopped for a quick break at Hoover's Dam- $5.00 to park, took peak over both sides, pictures, snacks, bathroom, and took off again. We weren't there 30-45 min, but I'm glad we stopped. They do have tours, but we had missed the last one for the day - don't think we would have gone anyway, but I did yrs ago. If you are interested in that type of thing, ck it out. As far as horseback riding, it looks like you may have time for it in Sequoia. We did it in Grant's Village, I believe. Also, Utahtea told me about the misters at Blue Moon Mist Company - I think that's their website also. I ordered several and used them - pump action and attach like tummy packs. Boy did they feel good. My car's AC wasn't great and there were times I would be misting myself driving w/ the AC on high and as cold as it would get. I don't care that it's "dry heat"; it's still HOT!

We recently did a three-week trip in the same area:
Las Cruces, New Mexico and White Sands National Monument
Tucson: Saguaro West National Park and Casa Grande
Phoenix
Sedona
Grand Canyon National Park (south rim)
Las Vegas (Hoover Dam is one the way)
Zion National Park (Springdale, Utah)
Bryce National Park
Arches National Park (Moab, Utah)
Brief drive through Canyonlands NP
Denver

I think Zion is more impressive than Bryce; be sure to take the tour at Hoover Dam (there's a parking garage on the west side of the dam); do some hiking in the parks; and above all, DO NOT underestimate the driving time. The US is huge and most Europeans simply cannot conceive of our space. I think that's why they want to visit the west--it's the one thing they don't have. It's over 1000 kilometers just across Texas!

A long thread indeed - that's because I chat too much! I think I'll start a couple of new ones! :)

The US is huge alright, but the distances won't be any bother. The daily mileage will be no different (in fact, probably less) than any we might do in Europe. The whole trip is less total mileage than our last trip to France, for example. But it's the unfamiliarity with things which will be different. As you say, vast stretches of nothing! I've bought a new mobile phone (cell phone), which (hopefully) works in the USA (triband) - so will keep fingers crossed that it will work if we need it!

I looked on the Blue Moon Mist Company webpage and had a pump and one of those neckerchiefs in my cart! They do ship internationally, but there appeared to be only one option ($8.95) and, as that would most definitely be surface, it would be cutting time a bit short - so didn't order in the end. Will look out for them when we're there!

Will definitely also have a look at the Hoover Dam too - thanks for the info!

I'm weighing up a route over the mountains, north of LA - rather than driving around LA on the interstate. Might save time; might not - certainly be more interesting though - but I'll make that a new thread. A new thread to ask about horseriding in Sedona too! :) (I found a couple of places, but they were VERY pricey!)

Hi! I just found this forum and am so excited about it. We are planning a similar trip in Sept. I have a question about the Monument Valley area. We have a Fodor's guide from 2002, Roland's B&B was listed in it, we could not get reservations at any of the places in Kayenta except this B&B. Does anyone know anything about it? Also, we have booked the 7 hour cruise out of Wahweap Lodge on Lake Powell. We debated taking the 6 hour Wilderness River Adventure but decided against it because my husband has a bad back and we thought it might be too long without a seat with a back support. If you could do only one trip which would you recommend? All the information given so far has been very helpful. I have taken tons of notes. Planning IS SO much fun! Have a wonderful trip!