Proper Cocktail Etiquette
 

I like to have a cocktail when we go for dinner. However, I can't drink a lot so I sip at it throughout my meal, especially after I get some food in me. I know restaurants have wine pairings with courses, and they would like me to order wine with my meal. Is it really uncouth to have a cocktail at your table after the appetizer is served? Have "the rules" relaxed so that it is okay to have a cocktail with your meal instead of wine?

Is this question for real or a joke?<BR>I've never heard of restaurant that dictated how quickly you must finish a drink or what type of alcohol you must consume during any part of a meal.

I agree with Howard. If you are paying for your meal and drinks, why can't you eat and drink in any order you please? The only "rule" I have when dining out is to enjoy myself!

"The rules"? yes... restaurantrs like it if you order wine with a meal. They'd also like everyone to get appetizers, desserts and cordials but the reality is that we all order what we choose. I happen to be a non-drinker and don't care what anyone else thinks about it - restaurant staff or otherwise. I often get a tonic water before the meal and frequently keep it throughout part of the meal to sip on. ON this note I should point out that it has become a practice (pr so it seems) of more upscale restaurants to automatically open a second bottle of sparkling water once the first one is getting low. I've had this happen twice recently and in both cases we each still had a full glass and were close to the end of the meal and ready for coffee. Be forewarned - you must specify that no additional bottles are to be opened unless requested. At one place it was $8 per bottle and at the opther it was $12 (yes... just for pellegrino type water). It's a very pricey add-on for somethign you don't want and if you're not drinking wine they're sometimes quick to look for automatic add-ons.

I agree~(that is because I am a very agreeable person:) but I hardly ever drink, and will have a glass of seltzer sometimes before we order, sometimes a glass of red wine will last the entire evening.I have never had the feeling that the restaurant would like for me to order differently.Of course I can be counted on to always order dessert and make my husband order one, regardless of his wanting dessert, so they might make it up that way,in our case:)C

Owen, do I infer that you actually pay for that unwanted and unordered second bottle of water? I wouldn't, but would simply say that I didn't order it.<BR>In general, whether you have one, two or no drinks is your decision! My wife drinks occasionally. When she doesn't sometimes she'll order bottled water; other times just a plain glass of water. It's that simple!<BR>Further, whether you have desert or not makes absolutely no difference!

Howard, this is a real question. I posted it cuz at times I will be asked if I want to order some wine even though my cocktail is still on the table, barely touched. It seemed like when I ordered wine, like c, I was no longer asked, but with cocktails I was. I didn't start "drinking" til later in life, and didn't know if the cocktail thing was "faux pas".

Klam, I think your question is quite interesting! I believe it is a true etiquette question, not simply a matter of feeling "forced" to run up a tab with wine. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer either, although I suppose taking a cocktail to the table with you might mar a formal place setting a little. Perhaps you could write to Miss Manners, the ultimate authority! (If it does turn out to be rude to drink a cocktail with dinner, I have been guilty of it myself.)

Klam, after I wrote my initial response, I realized that you are a regular contributor. Forgive for being a "quasi-skeptic"!<BR>But, Catherine, YOU can't be serious. An etiquette question? Marring a formal place setting? Rude to drink a cocktail with dinner? C'mon!<BR>

Wine pairing is always at an additional charge so do not feel obligated to order it. Drink what you wish. Many people do not drink wine with dinner so do not worry. I have been in the business for years and it is no way looked down upon if you choose to drink something else besides wine with your dinner. As far as the bottle water thing goes, Howard you were "taken". In no way should a server ever assume you want something and just bring it over and charge you for it. It is called "padding" the check. You were scammed.

Actually, there is a reason for this that isn't necessarily about inflating your bar bill. Let me preface this by saying that I think it's your meal and you're entitled to eat or drink what you see fit. The reason I've heard most often is that most cocktails are made with hard alcohol which has the effect of "deadening the palate" and some foodies feel that this is diminishing the appreciation of the food. Some may liken it too smothering a filet mignon with ketchup. Personally, I do find liquor to be too strong flavored to enjoy while I eat so I prefer it after the meal but it's no crime to drink it during and you definitely shouldn't have to drink yourself into a puddle just to please the waiter. LOL

Howard, it *is* an etiquette question! I actually looked it up in an old etiquette book I have from 1978 (the year I was born, BTW), but to no avail. While it was quite specific about a host's ordering cocktails for his guests as they arrived at a restaurant (and that a non-drinker might have pop instead), it obviously assumed that wine would be drunk with dinner.<BR><BR>I certainly don't think it would be offensive to have a cocktail with your food, but it might not be perfectly proper, you know? As far as formal place settings, that obviously doesn't apply in a restuarant because the place wouldn't be set, as no one knows what you will order and thus what utensils you will need. However, if I were having a dinner party at my house, I'd think someone a little rude if he shoved aside the glasses I had set to plunk down his gin and tonic.<BR><BR>For the record, I myself do enjoy wine with dinner while eating out. As far as cocktails, I'm partial to rusty nails but usually save them for when I want to fall down the stairs after a punk show. (I leave you to ponder the true punkness of any venue that does serve Drambuie.)

So you think it's a better idea for someone to drink wine that they do not like or want in lieu of plunking down their gin and tonic? I can't see the difference. If I go to a restaurant and order a drink and want another one with my dinner so what? They are probably happier than a pig in crap because of the exorbitant prices most places charge for drinks anymore. The more you drink, the more $$$ they are making.

Foodie, it wasn't me who was taken. I said pretty much the same thing as you.<BR>Alexis, you're absolutely right with your deadening the palate comments. I just didn't want to get that technical, since I didn't think that was part of the original poster's considerations.<BR>And, finally, Catherine, I don't mean to be argumentative, but we're talking about a restaurant, not someone's house.<BR>(Still, I'm not sure if I agree with your comments about that situation either!)

Anon, not partaking of the wine served is not that same as deciding what will be served instead. As for the manners of a pig in crap might be, you can enlighten us later.... I will say that resteraunteurs are not always the greatest purveyors of etiquette and that "I'm paying for it, aren't I?" is too often used as an excuse to be rude.

Just a clarification--the first sentence of my last comment did refer to a dinner party. Howard is probably right, though, that we should get back to the restaurant issue.<BR><BR>This board should registration, if for no other reason than to allow posters to edit.

Howard, my mistake I meant Owen was "taken". Sorry for the confusion.

Howard - I'm completely in agreement with you re/not paying for something I didn't order. The first time was at Tangerine in Philly. I commented on the issue to the waitress and she immediately tookk it off the check. The second occasion as at Danube - my friend was treating me to dinner and her preference was to pay for it. I mention it here simply because I rather than mention that we hadn't requested it. I was the guest and no position to disagree. Hadn't noticed this practice in the past and think most of us would rather avoid even having to ask for the correction. By all rights, the restaurant should ask first. I can't imagine that they'd routinely open a second bottle of wine without asking first and at $12 per bottle, sparkling water becomes more than just "water". I also agree that it makes no difference whether one is planning on dessert or not. Just seems that this may be a new way of bumping up check totals and I, for one, don't approve of it. I don't mind being nudged on dessert, appetizers or other options but agree that what one chooses to order should be it and nothing else.

At Bice in New York a couple of years ago, we were just being seated when an overly ambitious waiter started pouring bottled water into our glasses. I saw it was sparkling -- which I don't drink at all -- and told him we didn't want that. When he asked if we'd prefer still water instead, I said we'd really prefer tap water. At that point he became very indignant and told me we should have told him before he opened the bottle that we didn't want it. How about that for backwards thinking? The waiter assumes you want bottled sparkiling water and it is the customer's responsibility to prevent him from opening it before you've even had a chance to settle into your chair. In addition he said in a very loud voice, "you're dining in a fine restaurant and you're drinking tap water?"

it isn't a new way to bump check totals, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW! They might as well take your CC# and go shopping without your knowledge. <BR>

This thread was interesting but this line made me wonder.<BR>"As far as formal place settings, that obviously doesn't apply in a restuarant because the place wouldn't be set, as no one knows what you will order and thus what utensils you will need."<BR>I think the original poster was asking the question in perhaps a better class of restaurant than that which you are speaking of.<BR><BR>Obviously, begs the question of which type of restaurants you are familiar with, or rather, NOT familiar with?

Patrick:<BR>You pronounce it BEE-chay, I pronounce it BITCHY.<BR><BR>Your waiter obviously woke up confused and thought he was Parisian.

I have a similar question. We often go out to eat at nice restaurants here in Chicago and I always feel uncomfortable with my drink order. I dislike all red wines whether a merlot or cabernet or whatever. I tend to drink only very "light" fruity (not oaky) white wine. I usually order a glass when I sit down or at the bar while we are waiting for a table. I am a red meat eater and I know that red wine goes with that, I just don't like it. Consequently when I order a second glass of my white wine for my dinner, I always get looked down on by the foodies and the waiter as if I am a country bumpkin (I'm from Kentucky originally and still have a strong accent) who doesn't know how to order properly.<BR><BR>It just makes me feel so uncomfortable that oftentimes, I just end up drinking bottled water with my dinner. Is it truply improper to continue with the light fruity wine through dinner (especially with a steak)?

I just have to say, you all worry too much. If I'm out to dinner it is to relax and unwind. If I'm in the mood for wine, I drink wine, if I'm in the mood for my usual vodka drink, I have that. I don't care how the wait person looks or feels about it. I'm paying, my rules. This goes for ALL restaurants.

Agree I'm gonna. Only a true country bumpkin would not order what they like in deference to what they consider proper. So Ang, go ahead and stick with whatever wine you like. Guidelines are just that. If you want a sauvignon blanc with your filet mignon go right ahead and order it - with confidence.<BR><BR>A really fine restaurant will not look at you "funny" or make you feel uncomfortable no matter what you order. They realize that the customer is always right, and they are there to make your meal pleasurable. You are not there to impress the waitstaff.

Ang,<BR> Nina is right. You, as the paying customer, have a right to enjoy your dining experience. If you wish to drink a white zinfandel or another light white with red meat, go right ahead. Any waitstaff that questions your choice, whether verbally or by body language/facial expression, requires retraining in appropriate customer service. <BR>ja

I don't want to be mean, but is it more important that you enjoy your meal and your evening out or more important that you try to impress a bunch of strangers that you'll never see again with your "cocktail skills"?<BR>Stop worrying so much what others think of you and enjoy.

I'd like to propose a toast to the good advice on this thread to ignore what others think and enjoy yourself!

A good meal is simple,<BR>Whatever you wish to drink + whatever you wish to eat. Who really gives a care what anyone else does. Life is to short for unenjoyable meals.

Where Do: What I meant was that, although a restaurant might choose to have tables "preset" with a basic service, the table would not, have something like, for instance, a fish fork. How could they know you would order fish? Those untensils would be brought with the course, and after you order, a waiter should clear away anything that happens to be on the table that doesn't correspond to what you'll be eating. For instance, if you were going just for dessert, the waiter might have to clear a dinner setting and replace it with one for dessert. At a dinner party, the host would know exactly what was being served and have what the guests would need ready.<BR><BR>But I think that what we've all learned here is that just because a restaurant serves in a particular doesn't make it good etiquette. Strong-arming people into taking extra drinks or food is really appalling.

Ang; I hate to think that you are not enjoying your evenings out in order to save face in front of a waiter!!! Stop that!! You deserve to drink any wine you choose and have fun doing it. <BR><BR>Klam: I have seen many a person nurse a drink throughout a meal in very posh restaurants. It's not the usual but heck why not if that's what you like. If I have a drink and also have wine with the meal they might as well get me a stretcher 'cause I'll never get out of the restaurant on my own. So, it's one or the other for me. I often see people drinking their Vodka martinis and keep them coming throughout the meal. But I live in the rough and tumble Southwest. Maybe you oughta move here! You do know that the more the waiter sells you the better they look to the boss and the more tip they get. So of course they are going to push whatever they can get away with.<BR><BR>And Patrick: I sure hope you never went back to wherever it was!

I think that it was Dear Abby(or maybe Ann Landers) that said, " No one can take advantage of you without your permisssion.<BR><BR>When I eat out, if something is brought to my table that I didn't order I would send it back. If I'm rushed and my entree comes out while eating my salad...I send it back.<BR><BR>If I want a leisurely meal with my wife, I tell the waiter up front to slow things down.<BR><BR>I do not hesitate to speak up if there is a problem....but I also tip VERY well.

I agree it is fine to do what you wish to do about what you drink when at a restaurant. I encourage you to do so in a completely relaxed, smiling, and unapologetic way, without communicating any anxiety about what the staff thinks.

Hey Dick - that advice came from my mom not Ann Landers. (joke) Actually I've always thought it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said it. But in any event its a great rule to live by. Thanks for the reminder.

Bennie,<BR>Are you sure that your Mom didn't read it in Abby's (or Ann's) column.<BR><BR>That's wwhere I read it many years agao. Its just stuck with me because it make such sense.<BR><BR>Elizabeth,<BR><BR>I'm glad you mentioned that. Of course, any questions or problems should be discussed in a friendly, polite non confrontational manner. I am sorry that I didn't make my self clearer.

Catherine, if you had ever eaten in a "fine" restaurant you would know that the tables are fully set and once you order, the waiter removes the untensils and glasses that you won't be needing.

In response to what Dick said. I hope you do enjoy your meals at your own pace and it is the kitchen/waitstaffs' responibilty to properly pace your meal.<BR>I will say i hope you dont go into a busy restaurant on a weekend night and tell the staff to "slow it down". Not only is it disruptive to the entire staff, (hosts/chefs/waiters) it also effects any other reservations that are booked for that table for the rest of the night. Three hours for dinner on a Monday night, sure. Saturday night with 180 reservations on the books and your just being inconsiderate. No matter how well you tip.

Ang, some people actually have an allergy to the tannins in red wine (somme members of my family) and can really never drink it. The waitstaff has no right to look down their noses at your choice of a white wine with your red meat. Ignore them and carry on.<BR><BR>I've actually had a waiter laugh at my wine selection once, I ordered an inexpensive Beaujolais with my dinner because I was really into Beaujolais then. I was embarrased at the time but I think back on that now and it just makes me smile at his faux pas. Of course, the worst breach of etiquette is pointing out someone else's breach of etiquette. <BR><BR>I work sometimes for my caterer friend and when I'm stressing about not folding the spanakopita correctly she tells me to get over it, it's just food!

Susan, just wondering... you said a waiter laughed at your wine selection. Did you still tip him?

Unfortunately, it was a party of six and the tip was added on for us. I hate it when they do that! The rest of the meal he behaved himself though.