I agree debate is better than argue, that's what I should have said, but didn't!

You've won me over!

For both of your info, I read snowrooster comments in another thread not because I was searching but because I read the thread.

You may think that you got good advice, I think you got what anyone that has ever taken a child out would commonly know. I did not attack you (in fact I think it was the opposite). I just stated my opinion and asked if thought your kids would really remember an experience at 2/3. You got bent out of shape because I said something you didn't like.

Ok I'll jump in here...It's not about the kids remembering the experience. It's about teaching them how to act appropriately in public places ie restaurants etc.

Case in point, our Church has a cry room (sound proof room with plexiglass to drown out the sounds of crying.) However, too many parents sit in there and let there kids run all over the place. I am not talking about little kids either, 4, 5, 6 year olds who should be taught how to act. My dd and I sat in there once, and some 5 year old was throwing books up against the walls and on the floor while the parents sat oblivious to what was going on. We left. My dd has been taught at a very early age by positive reinforcement, what is expected of her in Church, the library, restaurants etc.
The point is to teach them.

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this post but what the hay! Here goes.

Sometimes people just can't stand the idea of kids being kids. They want them to be seen and not heard. They want to see them looking and acting like adults. Kids will be kids.

There's a lot of adults out there who don't act very grown up. Usually they're drunk, crotchety, or whatever. I'll take the loud kids over the loud obnoxious adults any day.

My god! Why not just take the kids to an appropriate restaurant until they are old enough to act accordingly. Then, you can take them to the fancy joint with linen cloths.

You answered your own question,Snowrooster. Kids that age are unpredictable, so why make it an issue.

My advice,let your kids be 2&3 for now. They can't be expected to grow up too soon.

If you are going to travel with your kids you need to teach them how to behave. They need to be taught they can't kick someone's seatback on the plane, they can't scream and holler in a restaurant etc. Otherwise stay home with them.

By the same token, you need to make adjustments such as eating dinner early, taking an early flight so you are not on a flight which will be delayed or cancelled later in the day and letting them run off steam at a playground or somewhere else. And keep your kid out of a bar for crying out loud. Sloppy Joe's is not the place to drag your kids....

No one's ever going to agree on this topic, let's face it.
But, I believe snowrooster has tried to end the conversation more than once. But it seems to come back to life each time.
She's said a cordial thank you for the information several times, so it seems to me as though the topic should be closed.

Guess lenleigh wasn't willing to let me have the last word after all!! LOL!!!

To clarify one final time, we don't normally take our kids to fancy restaurants - we usually have sitters and grandparents who are happy to watch them. However we will be on vacation soon and while we will spend the vast majority of our dinners at family friendly spots, there are one or two restaurants I'd like to try that I'm not sure about. Hilton Head is a family vacation spot and pretty much all of the restaurants are casual, so I was looking for tips on determing which are most kid friendly, which I was fortunate to receive.

I don't mind differing opinions. However one poster (lenleigh) chose to insult the quality of my thread by calling "common sense" and "simplistic" which I think is uncalled for. I would put money on a bet that she doesn't have any kids. If she does, I hope she doesn't carry the "what are they going to remember at age 2/3 attitude" into their lives. Kids get different things out of different activities at different ages, but I think exposing them to a variety of experiences can only aid in their development into well rounded individuals. :-)

Thank you, Snowrooster. I will nominate you for parent of the year.

Why the nasty & sarcastic response gojacks? I have been following this thread knowing that people will start with the "leave your child at home until they can behave" rant. Anyone with children know that their behavior is completely unpredictable. I take them out and hope for the best - if they are misbehaving we go home. I also agree with snowrooster's mindset that you do things with your children even though they will not remember it. I have a friend that prescribes to that mentality and it drives me nuts. Her kids sit in the house all day - either watching tv or playing with toys. I take my kids out daily either to the park, pool, library etc. for their sanity and mine. Her children are very whiny and moody - my two boys happy and outgoing. That being said - I deserve parent of the year! (ha!)

I agree with you, Kathleen. But don't you just find it the least bit annoying that Snowrooster insists on "getting the last word," even if she had to keep repeating herself?!
She was also very nasty herself on a post that Lenleigh initiated, seemingly just to "get back."

I posted the same thing to lenleigh that she posted to me. I was just having a little fun. She shouldn't dish it out if she can't take it.

I'm not trying to "get the last word" as you suggested, but when people post about how I should use a sitter or not take my kids to "fancy" places, I do feel the need to clarify why this is not the issue (we will be on vacation so sitters aren't available and I'm not considering any fancy spots with linen tablecloths).

Oh, and I don't think taking your kids out of the house and exposing them to things makes you deserving of "parent of the year." It should be the norm rather than the exception.

Very well, Kathleen. I will nominate you as well.

Posters love to dominate this forum with their opinions,then,when one disagrees, that opinion becomes fact and all hell breaks lose.

I think that this type of forum premotes a false sense of intimacy. If people are going to bring their personal issues onto a forum like this, they should be prepared for all the crap that comes with it. There are ways to pose questions on this board without dragging a lot of family baggage into it.

'I am taking my family on vacation to Hilton Head. I would like to go to 2 upscale (but not fancy) restaurants while I am there. Does anyone know if we would be comfortable with small children at either of these 2 restaurants (names)? If you have been to both, which one did you prefer?'

We don't need to know their ages, and whether or not they are used to eating out, how they usually (though unpredictably) behave, or what the sitter situation is. Frankly, it is none of our business.

Just post a basic question and go from there.

Snowrooster - do you find dining out in fine restaurants with 2 and 3 year olds relaxing and enjoyable? - or do you spend more time worrying about their behaviour?

Just a thought - perhaps one solution is to determine whether the restaurant will provide take out dinners, that way you can have your meal and eat it too.

My son is long grown up but I introduced him to casual restaurants and bistros before venturing into fine dining (at age 8). I can't imagine taking my almost-two year old grandson to a fine dining establishment - he is just too rambunctuous (and way too cute so everyone forgives him for his disruptive behaviour thus rewarding it). My son and daughter-in-law find dining out with him way too stressful, so they are waiting until he grows up a little before venturing out again.

Well, now I'm a little confused - have never seen a "nice" restaurant that didn;t have linen tablecloths and real crystal/silver etc. with 2 -2 1/2 hour dinners, fine wines etc.

It sounds like what you are calling "nice" - and I assumed meant a real restaurant - is what I would call casuale dining. Perhaps we need some better definitions.

Pure nuttiness

I think it is an atypical situation in that even the "nice" restaurants on Hilton Head are casual. Below are links to a couple of the restaurants I was having trouble deciding on (I will be calling myself when we get down there, but if you have any thoughts, let me know). . .

Charlie's L'Etoile Verte (supposed to be a "bistro" atmosphere):
http://www.hiltonheaddlc.com/charlies.htm

Red Fish:
http://www.hiltonheadisland.com/redfish/

Couldn't find website for either of these: Sunset Grille or Gaslight 2000

Sunset Grille is supposed to be in a mobile home park over a laundramat so even though I've heard the food referred to as "innovative" I imagine it can't be all that formal. :-)

When people keep saying I should just get a sitter, I do think it's relevant to mention that we will be on vacation and a sitter will not be an option. I also think the children's ages are relevant (you can take a 10 year old to a restaurant you wouldn't take a 2 year old).

As any mother would say:

"I don't care who started it! Hasn't anyone ever told you two wrongs don't make a right!"

You're right, my mom did tell me that. It was a guilty pleasure to respond to her thread in the same manner. I probably didn't take the high road there.