snowrooster: It's absolutely ok but I think it all depends on your child's temperament which you know better than anyone else.
I agree with the above posters who say the key is to go early (we do 6p at the earliest, 7p at the absolute latest). My 2.5-year-old son is great at restaurants. He stays in his seat (we bring his musical books and/or crayons to keep him occupied in between eating, etc..). We do not let him run around (we don't get people who let their kids do that). However by dessert time, our son is done, so either we all leave, or my husband or I walk outside with him till the other finishes dessert and/or pays for the meal. So yes, we rarely have dessert while we eat out. But that's fine, we certainly don't want to put out other people.
I do think it is true that some parents are not considerate of other people when they're out in public. I remember my husband and I were at the airport one day and there was this woman with her bratty child in line in front of us. My husband and I just looked at each other (our son sitting quietly in his stroller) thinking if our son ever behaved that way, we'd kill him first :-)
We had just one time when he did NOT want to be at the restaurant (long story why). My husband went home with him while I stayed and had dinner with my sister and my niece.

LOL Dreamer! I don't like to tell customers it is my husband's restaurant (but sometimes I'd like to).

Does anyone think that adults have a maximum sit still and behave time also?

Snowrooster,

Not trying to stir anything up but your post does ask "Okay to take kids to nice restaurants?" so that's why many of us gave our opinions. In one of your last posts you said "My thread is really not about whether it is okay to take kids somewhere other than McDonalds, but how to get an idea of the atmosphere of a given restaurant when you are on vacation and not familiar with the places you want to eat." I don't expect you to not enjoy your vacation, I love eating at great restaurants too. Once our whole family (when the kids were really little) went to eat at Del Fresco's which is a very nice and very expensive steak house. There was about 10 adults and 2 or 3 kids. It went okay but they stuck us in a back room (which was a good idea) and we ate a little earlier. Knowing how my nephews & neice behave now, we would never attempt that again. They can eat steak and lobster at home.

I understand where your coming from but do you honestly think your kids are going to remember a meal at 2/3? I don't think that if kids don't eat lobster and foi gras growing up that they will be picky eaters. I'm not saying don't take them out to eat but you can also add to their palate at home and I'm sure they will turn out fine.

On another note, I have a Brother-in-law that is extremly picky about food. He likes fine food but he never eats anything with dressing, garlic, sour cream and a multitude of other things that many people love. His 4 year old seems to have (from birth) inherited his exact eating habits while the 2 year old will eat anything.

hahaha Go Travel, I think with most adults, it is not a time issue, but an alcholic beverage consumption versus time issue. "Gee, if I drink 4 glasses of wine in an hour I will be the life of the party!" attitude.
((D))

lenleigh -

I'm sorry if my subject wasn't specific enough but you are limited in space. I thought I clarified my question in my initial post. Do I think my kids will remember a meal at 2/3? I don't know, but if I had that attitude about them they would have had a pretty boring childhood so far. I think it's good to expose them to all sorts of experiences regardless of how much they actually remember. I never suggested ordering them foie gras - in fact I said I would be calling to see if there was a children's menu (which usually doesn't include foie gras).

Again, thanks to all for the great tips (the outdoor dining was a good idea as well) - you really have been helpful.

I re-read some of your posts. How can you tell if some restaurants are suitable for kids, call and ask them just that. Get online and ask people how family friendly specific restaurants are. That seems pretty simplistic to me. You can take your kids to any restaurant you want. Personally I would skip restaurants that are extremly expensive and quiet until you know for sure that your child won't let out one scream and that they can sit still.

lenleigh -

Sorry you found my question "simplistic" - LOL! Calling and asking if the restaurant is kid friendly may seem obvious, but sometimes restaurants will say "yes" because they want your business - I've had this happen before. Your other suggestion of getting online and asking people is kind of bizarre - isn't that what I'm doing by posting this thread? I don't know where you're coming from - first you call my dilemna simplistic then suggest I do exactly what I've done. Oh well, I've gotten lots of good advice already.

Isn't it the restaurant owners who decide who should and should not eat in their restaurant? If the restaurant welcomes children, then the decision is sort of made. I've seen more trouble caused in restaurants by drunks and loudmouths than I have by kids.

Hmmm, my point was that your title says one thing but your really asking something else. I'm not the only person that stated my experiences and I certainly never said don't take your kids out so not sure why you are taking what I said so personally.

Your whole question (now that you've cleary stated your point several times) just seems to answer itself to me. If you call a place and they say they welcome families, what else do you really expect. It would seem logical to me that you would think to ask if they have at least 2 highchairs or a kids menu if you are that concerned about it and especially since you have "had this happen before"? Secondly, I suggested that you ask about SPECIFIC restaurants to get opinions about how kid friendly they are from people that have been there. I see you have done that in other posts but it wasn't something you indicated in here.

Anyways I wasn't trying to attack your desire to take your kids out. Just think that this was a common sense issue.

lenleigh -

Quite honestly, I think you're a bit rude. That's fine if you find my question to be a matter of "common sense" but I chose to solicit advice and appreciate the responses I've received. Anyone who begins a post stating they are "not trying to stir up anything" is clearly doing just that. As you find my thread both "simplistic" and to be merely "common sense," I'm not sure why you've spent so much time responding to it. One would hope you could find more productive ways to spend your time than insulting the quality of a travel board post. :-)

I'm not sure how you conclude that I am insulting the quality of a travel board. You yourself said people are entitled to their opinions and you have stood fast to sticking to yours.

I entirely meant what I said about not stiring anything up. I said that meaning I wasn't trying to offend you, just my point of view. Almost immediatly you made a comment about those of us that said kids didn't belong in restaurants when none of us really said that. Something could also be said for all the replies you've posted as well. You win, I'm done with the bickering.

I said you were insulting the quality of a travel board POST, not the travel board. I do stick to my opinion but as this is a board about travel I limit my opinions to just that - I don't comment on the quality or common sense value of others' posts.

Regarding your comment that nobody said kids don't belong in restaurants, I offer the following quote from nytravler: "IMHO kids as young as 2 or 3 never belong in a real restaurant." Obviously you were mistaken.

Just what need are we satisfying when we drag a 2-3 year old to some swanky restaurant? And do we even give them a say in the matter? Sitters ... and then when they're teens, and can sit and enjoy sitting, sure. If little kids usually behave, is that sufficient? Besides, they cost extra, and probably won't appreciate being thrown off their routine and diet.

We'll be on vacation so a sitter isn't an option. I'm not considering any super swanky spots - only places listed as casual (it is Hilton Head so most restaurants are used to families). Luckily I got some good tips from this thread so I'll narrow down my choices and make a few calls.

You are completly incorrect about not limiting yourself to just travel talk. I read your comments on another post about Boarding School & kids realtionships with parents so save the garbage about limiting yourself to talk about travel.

Your beating my comments to death but I'll let you have the last word since you seem to need it.

Now you are looking at my old posts for ammo against me? Golly gee, sweetheart, get a life!!

The boarding school comment was in regard to a thread complaining about where some parents take their kids on vacation. I mentioned that some parents don't even have their kids at home with them (boarding school) so any parent who takes the time to take their children on vacation should be praised regardless of where they take them. That's how it was travel related. But you knew that, didn't you, because you read the post, right? Just trying to stir up trouble again I suppose.

Let's see if that's true about you letting me have the last word . . .

Irrespective of the argument, I find it quite sinister when people trawl through people's previous postings trying to prove some point or other. I think it is a weak jibe, in place of a good reasoned argument. It reminds me of tabloid hack journalism -often misrepresenting and twisting what you have said and only picking the part of the post that supports there argument, conveniantly ignoring the rest of the post or the 100 other posts you may have made with better arguments.

Its happened to me about 15 months ago and the way my words were twisted,misquoted angered me so much I came off the board for over 12 months.

Its similar to trying to win the argument by saying "Your wrong, I'm right, because I know what i'm talking about and you don't" - a phrase with nothing to substantiate it, that you will see certain posters use to attempt to settle an argument from time to time.

What bothers me is that there are plenty of bulletin boards out there where folks can argue & debate. I happen to frequent a political one quite often and though I enjoy it, it can also be a bit stressful. I like this board as an escape since it is about travel which shouldn't be paricularly controversial. I can't help but respond when someone criticizes me, but it would be nice if folks who want to argue find more appropriate bulletin boards to pick their battles.

People do post, inadvertantly or otherwise, messages which have the potential to cause arguments. Some travel issues will cause arguments - you only need to look at postings relating to travel security, to see this. Other questions, the issue is so wide that you are bound to get conflicting views, and "should children dine in posh restaurants" is a good example of this sort of post. I wonder sometimes what useful information someone who posts a question like this can realistically hope to get, because it seems to me from the outset that for every answer that says its OK there will be one that says its definately not OK.

So, I don't see how we can have a travel board without the odd argument breaking out. People will even argue over the best hotel or restaurant in the Celestville!

I think debate is better than argue - at least for a topic like travel. The point of my post was to find out, when you are traveling, some good tips for determining if a restaurant is kid friendly. Perhaps that wasn't clear from the subject line. Several people gave suggestions like call ahead and ask about high chairs, kids menus or go early and perhaps to restaurants with outdoor dining - these all make sense so I came away with useful information.

I agree debate is better than argue, that's what I should have said, but didn't!

You've won me over!

For both of your info, I read snowrooster comments in another thread not because I was searching but because I read the thread.

You may think that you got good advice, I think you got what anyone that has ever taken a child out would commonly know. I did not attack you (in fact I think it was the opposite). I just stated my opinion and asked if thought your kids would really remember an experience at 2/3. You got bent out of shape because I said something you didn't like.

Ok I'll jump in here...It's not about the kids remembering the experience. It's about teaching them how to act appropriately in public places ie restaurants etc.

Case in point, our Church has a cry room (sound proof room with plexiglass to drown out the sounds of crying.) However, too many parents sit in there and let there kids run all over the place. I am not talking about little kids either, 4, 5, 6 year olds who should be taught how to act. My dd and I sat in there once, and some 5 year old was throwing books up against the walls and on the floor while the parents sat oblivious to what was going on. We left. My dd has been taught at a very early age by positive reinforcement, what is expected of her in Church, the library, restaurants etc.
The point is to teach them.

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this post but what the hay! Here goes.

Sometimes people just can't stand the idea of kids being kids. They want them to be seen and not heard. They want to see them looking and acting like adults. Kids will be kids.

There's a lot of adults out there who don't act very grown up. Usually they're drunk, crotchety, or whatever. I'll take the loud kids over the loud obnoxious adults any day.

My god! Why not just take the kids to an appropriate restaurant until they are old enough to act accordingly. Then, you can take them to the fancy joint with linen cloths.

You answered your own question,Snowrooster. Kids that age are unpredictable, so why make it an issue.

My advice,let your kids be 2&3 for now. They can't be expected to grow up too soon.

If you are going to travel with your kids you need to teach them how to behave. They need to be taught they can't kick someone's seatback on the plane, they can't scream and holler in a restaurant etc. Otherwise stay home with them.

By the same token, you need to make adjustments such as eating dinner early, taking an early flight so you are not on a flight which will be delayed or cancelled later in the day and letting them run off steam at a playground or somewhere else. And keep your kid out of a bar for crying out loud. Sloppy Joe's is not the place to drag your kids....

No one's ever going to agree on this topic, let's face it.
But, I believe snowrooster has tried to end the conversation more than once. But it seems to come back to life each time.
She's said a cordial thank you for the information several times, so it seems to me as though the topic should be closed.

Guess lenleigh wasn't willing to let me have the last word after all!! LOL!!!

To clarify one final time, we don't normally take our kids to fancy restaurants - we usually have sitters and grandparents who are happy to watch them. However we will be on vacation soon and while we will spend the vast majority of our dinners at family friendly spots, there are one or two restaurants I'd like to try that I'm not sure about. Hilton Head is a family vacation spot and pretty much all of the restaurants are casual, so I was looking for tips on determing which are most kid friendly, which I was fortunate to receive.

I don't mind differing opinions. However one poster (lenleigh) chose to insult the quality of my thread by calling "common sense" and "simplistic" which I think is uncalled for. I would put money on a bet that she doesn't have any kids. If she does, I hope she doesn't carry the "what are they going to remember at age 2/3 attitude" into their lives. Kids get different things out of different activities at different ages, but I think exposing them to a variety of experiences can only aid in their development into well rounded individuals. :-)

Thank you, Snowrooster. I will nominate you for parent of the year.

Why the nasty & sarcastic response gojacks? I have been following this thread knowing that people will start with the "leave your child at home until they can behave" rant. Anyone with children know that their behavior is completely unpredictable. I take them out and hope for the best - if they are misbehaving we go home. I also agree with snowrooster's mindset that you do things with your children even though they will not remember it. I have a friend that prescribes to that mentality and it drives me nuts. Her kids sit in the house all day - either watching tv or playing with toys. I take my kids out daily either to the park, pool, library etc. for their sanity and mine. Her children are very whiny and moody - my two boys happy and outgoing. That being said - I deserve parent of the year! (ha!)

I agree with you, Kathleen. But don't you just find it the least bit annoying that Snowrooster insists on "getting the last word," even if she had to keep repeating herself?!
She was also very nasty herself on a post that Lenleigh initiated, seemingly just to "get back."

I posted the same thing to lenleigh that she posted to me. I was just having a little fun. She shouldn't dish it out if she can't take it.

I'm not trying to "get the last word" as you suggested, but when people post about how I should use a sitter or not take my kids to "fancy" places, I do feel the need to clarify why this is not the issue (we will be on vacation so sitters aren't available and I'm not considering any fancy spots with linen tablecloths).

Oh, and I don't think taking your kids out of the house and exposing them to things makes you deserving of "parent of the year." It should be the norm rather than the exception.

Very well, Kathleen. I will nominate you as well.

Posters love to dominate this forum with their opinions,then,when one disagrees, that opinion becomes fact and all hell breaks lose.

I think that this type of forum premotes a false sense of intimacy. If people are going to bring their personal issues onto a forum like this, they should be prepared for all the crap that comes with it. There are ways to pose questions on this board without dragging a lot of family baggage into it.

'I am taking my family on vacation to Hilton Head. I would like to go to 2 upscale (but not fancy) restaurants while I am there. Does anyone know if we would be comfortable with small children at either of these 2 restaurants (names)? If you have been to both, which one did you prefer?'

We don't need to know their ages, and whether or not they are used to eating out, how they usually (though unpredictably) behave, or what the sitter situation is. Frankly, it is none of our business.

Just post a basic question and go from there.

Snowrooster - do you find dining out in fine restaurants with 2 and 3 year olds relaxing and enjoyable? - or do you spend more time worrying about their behaviour?

Just a thought - perhaps one solution is to determine whether the restaurant will provide take out dinners, that way you can have your meal and eat it too.

My son is long grown up but I introduced him to casual restaurants and bistros before venturing into fine dining (at age 8). I can't imagine taking my almost-two year old grandson to a fine dining establishment - he is just too rambunctuous (and way too cute so everyone forgives him for his disruptive behaviour thus rewarding it). My son and daughter-in-law find dining out with him way too stressful, so they are waiting until he grows up a little before venturing out again.

Well, now I'm a little confused - have never seen a "nice" restaurant that didn;t have linen tablecloths and real crystal/silver etc. with 2 -2 1/2 hour dinners, fine wines etc.

It sounds like what you are calling "nice" - and I assumed meant a real restaurant - is what I would call casuale dining. Perhaps we need some better definitions.

Pure nuttiness

I think it is an atypical situation in that even the "nice" restaurants on Hilton Head are casual. Below are links to a couple of the restaurants I was having trouble deciding on (I will be calling myself when we get down there, but if you have any thoughts, let me know). . .

Charlie's L'Etoile Verte (supposed to be a "bistro" atmosphere):
http://www.hiltonheaddlc.com/charlies.htm

Red Fish:
http://www.hiltonheadisland.com/redfish/

Couldn't find website for either of these: Sunset Grille or Gaslight 2000

Sunset Grille is supposed to be in a mobile home park over a laundramat so even though I've heard the food referred to as "innovative" I imagine it can't be all that formal. :-)

When people keep saying I should just get a sitter, I do think it's relevant to mention that we will be on vacation and a sitter will not be an option. I also think the children's ages are relevant (you can take a 10 year old to a restaurant you wouldn't take a 2 year old).

As any mother would say:

"I don't care who started it! Hasn't anyone ever told you two wrongs don't make a right!"

You're right, my mom did tell me that. It was a guilty pleasure to respond to her thread in the same manner. I probably didn't take the high road there.