Moving to Boston need advice!
 

Hi,<BR><BR>We are moving to Boston area due to hubbys job transfer..... Suburbs we are considering are:<BR><BR>Wayland<BR>Westin<BR>Wellesley<BR>Lexi ngton<BR>Sudburry<BR>Dover<BR><BR>Does anyone have any thoughts on these towns? You can only get so much from reading about it. It seems like Wayland has the best schools, Westin has the most expensive real estate and I dont know much about the others, but from what I read they sounded nice. Any thoughts out there?

All these towns are affluent towns with reputations for good school systems. There used to be a Mass. Department of Education web site that would give info on each school district, with things such as SAT scores, % going to college, etc. Sorry, I do not know the site, but it could not be too tough to search out.<BR><BR>For me, the commute would also be an issue - these towns are west of Boston, and I would check on a map regarding routes and commute from each - distance does not automatically translate into length of time on commute.<BR><BR>If you are doing any internet searches on these towns, correct spelling is Weston and Sudbury.<BR><BR>And as far as Wayland having the best schools, I am guessing you could get a good argument on any of these towns having the "best" schools.

I have spent most of my life in Ma. They are all lovely towns. Dover is the most rural, but may not be the best choice as far as raising kids, since it seems a bedroom community. Obviously, you are looking for a highend place to live. If schools are important you may also consider Milton. Boston Magazine recently looked into the schools in our area, this may be helpful.<BR><BR>For me, I'd suggest doing a driveby of all of these and getting a feel of the town. I myself live in Sharon, a wonderful town with trainline, lots of conservation land and right off the highway.........my cousin lives in Wellesley and loves it. Rent a place and then hit the road. You have specked out some wonderful towns, some may be snooty, it is all in the eyes of the beholder........so get out there and enjoy.....rent shortime and decide.<BR><BR>Good Luck

Do check housing prices before going any farther in choosing a community -- some of the towns you named have the highest housing prices in the US. (Just plug their zip codes in at realtor.com.) Not surprisingly, this correlates with quality of public schools! <BR><BR>We chose to live in Milton rather than in the moer-affluent lily-white burbs, we prefer to live in the real world. Plus, it's much more accessible to public transit. Finally -- we're currently rebuilding every school in town!

My recommendation would be to find a rental and then shop for a home. Chances are, your final choice will be determined once you start serious home shopping. All the towns you've mentioned are very, very nice (my favorite is Lexington for a myriad of reasons) and there are others just as nice. In Massachusetts, everything varies from one town to another, particularly the real estate taxes. Boston Magazine does a comprehensive study every year. They have a website. You might want to give them a call and order a copy of the most recent one.

I grew up in Wayland, and my parents still live there. I graduated from WHS in 1976, and at that time 15% of the class (45) went to Ivy league colleges. I'm guessing that the percentage is about the same. Weston and Lexington also have excellent school systems. One barometer you might use for school systems is the MCAS. Sudbury does not have its own high school, it is a regional high school shared with Lincoln (another nice town). Dover is also very prestigious, but I don't know anything about the school system. Wellesley is mixed -- there are some very expensive neighborhoods, and some moderately priced ones, however, the closer you get to Boston, the more expensive the real estate.<BR><BR>All of the towns are reasonably accessible to Boston, either by driving (parking is grossly expensive) or by the commuter rail or bus.<BR><BR>What's your price range? I can recommend a few good brokers that cover Wayland, Weston and Sudbury. Check out DeWolfe or Hunneman -- both have websites.<BR><BR>There are also some very nice neighborhoods in Framingham. Framingham abuts Wayland and Sudbury.

I'm surprised you haven't investigated whether the "transfer" is economically feasible to you and "hubby". All depending upon where you're relocating from, you could be in for some serious Sticker Shock. Those suburbs are among the most expensive in the country. You had better find out before you even THINK of packing whether you and "hubby" can actually afford to live in any of those towns on "hubby"'s salary. Have you even checked out the rents or prices of homes? Real estate prices, taxes, utilities (heat!) are positively exhorbitant compared to just about anywhere else. And, you haven't mentioned where "hubby"'s new office is located. Commuting in the Boston area is a positive nightmare. And, that's AFTER you've overcome registering your car and paying for the car insurance (which varies enormously from town to town as well). You've go some serious researching to do!

All that has been said about these towns is true, but one town you've forgotten is Newton. Especially if you value a more urban experience (i.e. on the Green line of the T, a more ethnically mixed population, closer to Boston) this might be a great choice. Our schools are right up there with all the towns you've mentioned, but the commute might be easier, depending on where you need to go. I think the idea of renting and then looking for the right place makes lots of sense, especially with the prices in eastern MA. It would be a really costly mistake to choose a town that you're not happy with.

The problem with renting first is that if you have school kids (as the OP apparently has), then you might be committing them to changing schools twice rather than once. Better to have a good first-guess, especially since the towns the OP named have few rentals. And since prices are climbing so quickly, a year's rental will be quite costly, not only in terms of rent paid but also in a higher mortgage.<BR><BR>Missy, where are you? Please give us a hint about your kids' ages and the location of hubby's new job. In the Boston area, commuting is such a pain in the neck, it would behoove you to start with his worksite and follow the handiest public transport outbound, choosing the most appriate suburb that's readily accessible!<BR><BR>Also, not to be too personal, but what's your budget?

Thanks for the feedback guys. <BR><BR>To answer some of the questions hubbys job is in Waltham. We're hoping to get away with paying around $300K for a decent house. No palace, but no leaky roofs, either. We've got two kids in grade school now.

Be careful in deciding who has the "best schools." As others have pointed out, housing prices are strongly correlated with school "quality," especially when it is measured by numbers like test scores. This is not only because of demand in the towns with better schools, but also the opposite: Kids from wealthier families tend to score higher, regardless of school, so wealthier kids will score better even if the schools are no better than another town's. <BR><BR>If you do have kids, look at details like whether the town schools meet your special needs and interests, whether this might be music programs, sports, tutoring, etc. etc. If possible, visit the schools to see if they "feel" right. When I was looking at towns, I eliminated a couple of them just because the guidance departments and other school staff were rude or incompetent.<BR><BR>Finally, if I were buying a house and had school-age kids, I would try to find one within easy walking distance (perhaps half a mile) of the public high school. This will eliminate a lot of transportation headaches, ranging from begging for a car to missing the bus in the AM to wondering how to get home from an afterschool sporting event or play rehearsal. Independence means so much to teens!

I have lived in that area all my life. All the towns you mentioned have excellent school systems. All are semi-rural or have semi-rural areas. Sudbury and Dover have partially regionalized school systems which are excellent. A decent house in any of these towns will cost you $1,000,000+. If one of you has to commute into the city, ease of commute becomes an issue. Needham would be another choice - good schools, commuter rail stations in town and a center with shops and supermarkets. Real estate prices about the same. Good luck.

Missy,<BR>I hate to burst your bubble, but 300K will not go far in the towns you have mentioned.<BR><BR>You may have to look west of 495. Have you contacted a realtor, yet?

A decent home in these towns will be at least double what you want to pay. Dover and Sherborne are very pretty "country" towns that share the same school district, but are very pricey. You'd be lucky to find a tiny fixer-upper for $300K. At least the interest rates are low right now. From where are you coming?!

Oh, boy, missy, I'm so sorry, but you really must do more research rather than starting with school quality. With that budget, you will not be able to get into the towns you listed.<BR><BR>Just for kicks, I went to realtor.com and checked for you. I realize that not all houses are listed with them, but here's a clue for you, in terms of the CHEAPEST (not average) house listed with the MLS in the following towns:<BR><BR>Wayland: $325<BR>Weston: $539<BR>Wellesley: $429<BR>Lexington: 399<BR>Dover: $519<BR><BR>Sudbury has listed a 4-room bungalow at $259, then the next house is $319.<BR><BR>

I have seen 2 bedroom/1 bath small townhouses in Waltham selling for $350k. You really do not want to live in Waltham as the school system there is pretty poor (at least it used to be). I honestly don't think that you'll find a garage for $300k in those towns. <BR><BR>You will probably have to look further north or west. My boyfriend would like to buy a house for no more than $300k, but for a decent one, he's having to look in Southern NH. Nashua, NH to Waltham is about 33 miles. However, during rush hour, that 25 minute drive would take you about 1 1/2 hours.<BR><BR>Lots of our friends have had to move towards the Worcester area or Northern MA/Southern NH. <BR>You really do pay for the commute.<BR><BR>Good luck!

Watch out for new hampshire. As mentioned, the commute can be a lot worse than it would seem by just looking at the mileage. Also, even though NH has no income tax, they have very high property taxes and their schools are not so good, reflecting their low tax income.<BR><BR>One good strategy would be for hubby to consult with his future co-workers about the towns they live in and what their commutes, regrets, recommendations, etc. might be.

Missy - Guess by now you've got the bad news on housing in Mass. You would be lucky to find a home in even the sketchiest of towns on that budget. But if schools are important, then consider towns with charter schools. Some towns like Everett and Malden are less desirable but do have the option of the charter schools. They are a new phenomenom here in Mass and therefore somewhat unproven but may provide you with the quality you are looking for.<BR><BR>

Wow all the negative responses just now have really brought me down. We were so hoping not to have to move out past 495.<BR><BR>Oh well.

Bennie,<BR>Let's not scare the bejeesus out of her. "Sketchy" and "far from Waltham" are not synonymous. <BR>She can find good housing with excellent schools in towns such as Westboro, Northboro, Hopkinton, Grafton, etc.<BR><BR>Eastern Worcester County should fill the bill. The bad news is that the commute to Waltham, from anywhere but Waltham, s!@#s.<BR><BR>Also, I echo the New Hampshire warnings...traffic is bad, especially with the rte 3 construction, property taxes are bad, and syou need to do a thorough analysis of each town's school system.<BR>jmho

JEN:<BR>Bite your tongue! What do you mean that the schools aren't as good in NH? It's the same as MA. Some towns have very good school systems and some don't. Who are you to bash NH? What are your qualifications to say that?<BR><BR>By the way, what the heck do you mean by low tax income? First of all, we don't have an income tax (unless you work in MA) and if we worked in NH, the average income is lower than MA because it's a lot cheaper to live in NH.<BR><BR>Just go away! I don't want to turn this post into an argument, but you really infuriated me.

Pamela, please calm yourself.<BR><BR>I'm sorry that I used the term "low tax income;" it clearly was vague. I meant to refer to communities' total percapita income from all tax sources (property, etc.). Face it, if total taxes are low (total per capita, from property, excise, etc., obviously nothing from income taxes) then that's an advantage from the perspective of the individual who's paying less taxes, but the other side of the coin is that the communities have less money to spend on schools etc. On average, NH spends $1000 less per pupil than MA.<BR><BR>My impression of NH schools derives mostly from reports of friends who considered moving there until they looked at the schools. If you know of any school systems in southern NH that are as good as the systems in Wayland, Weston, Lexington, etc. I'm sure missy would like to hear about them.

As Pamela has pointed out, one hazard of working in MA and living in NH is that you get a double whammy, the worst of both worlds: You have to pay MA income tax and NH property taxes.

Bedford, Amherst, Hollis, etc. are all towns in NH with GREAT school systems. However, they are even more inconvenient to Waltham than Nashua.<BR><BR>The thing to look at is most cities and big towns (no matter what the state) will have some not so great schools. As I said before, generally, all states are the same where some towns have great school systems and others do not. Unfortunately, most NH cities/towns that border MA are the places without the good school systems. A lot of people looking to move to NH look mainly at those towns and that is why they come up with "the schools aren't that good in NH". I myself would not choose to raise my kids in Nashua or Salem unless they went to private school.<BR><BR>I my sisters and I were schooled in NH. Also, my nieces and nephews are currently schooled here as well. I haven't really heard any complaints.<BR><BR>Sorry for making this so much more than it should be. I have lived in NH almost my whole life and so much prefer it over MA (where my BF lives). That's just the way I feel and my preference. The only complaint that I have about NH is that they are not enough professional jobs here. :(

As a refugee from Massachusetts, I'm with those who say rent for a while. Towns in MA are so vastly different that you cannot quickly select the one most appealing to and appropriate for your family. Not long ago, my mother-in-law sold a tiny house with hardly any yard and way outdated plumbing, wiring, kitchen and bath for $250.00. Probably because it was almost across the street from Wellesley HS, it sold in about five minutes for the asking price, without a realtor. Without question, the lower the housing prices, the longer the commute. It's better to take some time and decide how to balance the two. A long commute is one thing in the nice weather, another entirely in inclement weather. Throw in an accident...<BR><BR>Pamela, let those people think what they like! NH is getting way to crowded with commuters to MA jobs! Let them live and work in MA where so many of the tax dollars collected are a) wasted, b) unaccounted for. Because of the manner in which MA dismissed so many teachers in the 80's, now they're paying a premium to get anyone they can find.

GC - actually I was not equating sketchy with far from Waltham. Not sure how you came up with that conclusion. I was specifically refering to Everett and Malden where I know the crime rate is higher than most Mass towns (thereby qualifying them as "sketchy" in my personal defination of the word"), the housing is somewhat more affordable and there is a charter school available.

Bennie,<BR>Sorry for jumping to conclusions.<BR>My point is that you can find housing at that price point, with good school systems, within a "reasonable" commute to Waltham (if such a thing exists) in towns that are not "sketchy", as you described.

To add some points to this argument.<BR><BR>1. Renting to test the area and the new job has its advantages, but as mentioned above, the kids have to change schools again.<BR><BR>2. The Rte 495 belt is not a bad option. Several nice towns - more rural but still with decent services. It is really not too far to go into Boston for an evening concert or activity. You really will not get anything close to 300K closer in. Skip Waltham and Framingham. Both are small cities with some nice areas and good features - but the schools are probably not what you want for your kids.<BR><BR>3. The NH option might seem feasible on a map, but the possible routes to Waltham are hopelessly clogged. Also, while I agree that there are some fine school systems in NH, the southern part of the state (where you would be looking) is only slightly cheaper for housing than Boston area. The real trade-off is in what people expect and/or demand for their tax dollars. That is a philosophical question. Just don't make the mistake of dear frineds of ours. They moved to NH for the cost and quality of life. All was great until they had 2 kids with special education needs and found there were fewer tax-payer paid-for services for them. They moved back to Mass.<BR><BR>4. Look at your husband's salary package and budget carefully. It is not just housing that is expensive in Massachusetts. I have lived here for 25 years and rarely think of moving, but things really are pricey.

495 is becooming much more convenient with 3 new commuter raii stations having just opened.<BR><BR>Towns to think about that 300K can do:<BR>Ashland<BR>Hopkinton<BR>Franklin<BR>Framing ham<BR><BR>Good luck!

Also add Natick to the mix, which is bordered by Wayland, Weston, Framingham, Ashland and Sherborn. I'd skip Ashland totally -- seem to be more condos than houses there now.<BR><BR>Along Route 128, you could consider certain Newton, Watertown, Burlington, Bedford and Concord. All are good towns with good school systems.<BR><BR>For $350K you won't even be able to buy a shack in Wayland. My parents bought their colonial in Wayland in 1971 for $60K -- multiply that by 15, and that is the accessed value of their home now.<BR><BR>Guessing that your husband's office is also located on Route 128 in Waltham, you might also consider looking toward the southshore in Norwood or even Randolph.

Missy,<BR>With all of the information that has been provided here, particularly about housing costs, you might want to suggest your husband revisits the financial package he is being offered to relocate. Quite possibly he can bargain for a higher salary based on the information you now have regarding how expensive it is going to be for your family to adjust to the high living costs associated with moving to Massachusetts "for the company."<BR><BR>Good luck!

Leslie makes an excellent suggestion. Go to www.homefair.com, then select "cost-of-living comparison". You can plug in your current income, your current city and state, and find out what income would be required for those towns you find appealing. When my husband was offered a job in Massachusetts (we live in NH), he added the MA income taxes and costs of commuting to their offer. They said okay.

Hi Missy. I have to agree with the other posters that you might want to expand your search just a bit. The towns you listed have very expensive real estate and I doubt you could find a reasonable home for your price range. One thing you should also consider when analyzing your choices is the hidden cost of living in a town. For instance, I live in Sudbury and I can assure you that my property taxes are what I consider outrageous for the services that the town provides. Eighty percent of the town budget goes to the schools, which might be okay with you since you have school aged children, but it sadly leaves other areas underfunded and will untimately cost you time or money or both. For example, garbage pick-up is not a town service paid for through your property taxes so you must either take your trash to the dump yourself or contract with a private service for about $500 a year. And my property taxes have increased almost 25% in the 3 years I have lived in this town, mostly to cover the $75 million cost of a new high school to replace an "outdated" 40 year old building. Yes, nothing but the best for our little darlings. <BR><BR>I second the suggestion of looking in Concord and Bedford. Both have good schools, a little more reasonably priced real estate and MUCH lower property taxes because of industry in their towns. And it would still be a relatively easy commute to Waltham. <BR><BR>Good luck. Cost aside, and truly I don't mind the high prices except when I don't feel I'm getting my money's worth, I really like living here.

Thanks for the great suggestions, guys. With the economy the way it is, my hubby is just thankful to have a job at all, so we're pretty much stuck with the income we have now. I'll take a second look at Concord and Bedford in particular, plus Norwood. <BR><BR>We scouted out New Hampshire once, but the commute seemed like it would be so long and the people seemed a little too rural or countrified for us.

I'm sorry to pile up on the negative things, but Norwood was one town I absolutely ruled out because of admiinstrative rudeness and incompetence. <BR><BR>The middle-school guidance counselor wouldn't even let us visit or tour the school until we had bought a home in the town. All she would do was hand me a copy of their very extensive and persnickety rules book.<BR><BR> She then gave me a lecture on shopping for real estate: her notion was that you ride around, spot a neighborhood you like, then find out which houses are for sale there. Well, I'm sure glad I didn't do it her way, or my kids might have ended up at that school. This was in 1999, perhaps she'll be gone by the time your kids get there, but in the meantime be sure to visit any schools your kids might attend. Test scores aren't everything.<BR><BR>I wish I could offer specific suggestions, but Norwood was the farthest north I looked, everything else I know about is too far south to be practical for you. I've heard that Medfield has goodschools; it's no farther than Norwood is from Waltham.

"We scouted out New Hampshire once, but the commute seemed like it would be so long and the people seemed a little too rural or countrified for us."<BR><BR>Thanks for the huge laugh. I'm SURE you'll be much happier (though poorer) in Taxachusetts.<BR><BR>And, you'll be whining about the lack of courtesy everywhere you go, from drivers on the roads to being ignored by shop clerks to your kids not being accepted because they are "outsiders". <BR><BR>There is corruption in every level of government. Watch out what town you move to. When checking out towns, be sure to note whether the streets generally have signs.<BR><BR>You haven't lived until you've tried to park in a mall in the suburbs of Boston (go ahead, give the Burlington Mall a try!). <BR><BR>Be sure to practice up on your aggressive, offensive, driving-to-endanger skills (skills which also work well in grocery stores). Understand that MA drivers pay no attention to "yield", "stop", and have no understanding of "merge". A good place to practice (especially your lane-changing skills) is on Route 128 during rush hour. <BR><BR>Be sure to check the list of cars most often stolen and make sure you own a different make and model.<BR><BR>I've lived in Norwood, Lexington, Waltham, Wellesley, Natick, Norwood (again) and Franklin (over a 30 year period). Lexington is the only one I'd recommend, if you can afford to live there. Although, a warrant was issued for my arrest once for not paying ONE parking ticket (for an expired meter, fine $5). While in Norwood, I received a notice from the Registry to appear at a hearing and bring my license plates and license with me so they could be seized for non-payment of the town excise taxes two years. I came, with the cancelled checks in the exact amounts they claimed I hadn't paid. I was told there was no way they could tell those checks were for the excise taxes, even though the dates on the checks corresponded to the tax years and the amounts were EXACT; and that I would have to pay them again or turn in my plates and license. I really couldn't argue (with a uniformed officer demanding my plates and license) because I had to go to work. So, I paid the two years again. Interestingly, I received a refund check from the town a month or two later. <BR><BR>In Wellesley, Wayland, Weston and other towns, you should plan your wardrobe from the Talbott's catalog/store exclusively. You need a huge SUV and hi-line sporty vehicle in your driveway to be sort-of accepted by your neighbors.<BR><BR>You can get a LOT more house for the money in NH. And, lots of other necessaries are far less expensive (like car insurance and utilities and cable TV). <BR><BR>I am by no means recommending that you move to NH. We don't need people with "attitude" and prejudice. But, you should know what you're in for if you move to MA.<BR><BR>For the towns you've mentioned, you need major bucks to live comfortably. Forget what you've heard about buying the lowest price house you can find in the best neighborhood you can find. It is absolutely no fun at all for your kids to be less than very well off in a school where most folks are wealthy.

I live in NH, and have recently studied the school systems extensively. IF you decided to take that route, go for southern Hollis and Brookline. Both are close to Rt. 495, although further from Waltham than you'd probably like. Hollis is beautiful apple orchards, but close to all the citified things you seem to like. Houses in Brookline are much more reasonable, however.<BR>Good Luck!

Don't worry, missy, not everyone in NH is as bitter and nasty as Sara.

Missy, you STILL have not bothered to mention here where you are moving from. I can assure you that the "masshole" description is totally accurate. These folks are arrogant and conceited for no particular reason. WATCH OUT. Not that you can do anything about it.

Someone already mentioned Sharon. I lived there 1989-2000. It is a very safe, quiet town, with a good school system and a 25-30 minute train ride into Boston. It is somewhat upscale, but not nearly as much as the towns you were originally considering. It also has a lake, and a beautiful state park. An older, modest home there (a ranch or cape) would probably be in your price range.