Rubyselbow may be coming here, Escargot my dear, read on...

As for the rest of you people speaking so negatively (not you, escargot). Yes, you from what's that Godawful town's name near Sacramento? Ummm...Citrus Heights? Yes, that's it...better head back to the library and scold people for not packing properly. Yo, you in Georgia - you don't know the central coast, our wineries or kids. It's time to enjoy life, ladies! Come on - it's too short to be so narrow minded! We have a beautiful area, wonderful wineries, scenery on the central coast and it needs to be shared with everyone. Yes, gasp...even kids! God forbid, even one single child should ever cross your paths, I hope your shadows don't ever darken their spirits because we have a wonderful life here. Peace out...be happy. ;;)

I'm a bit confused, NewbE. What ELSE, other than wine, is "served" at a winery? I'm missing the analogy to a restaurant. What is on the "menu" at a tasting room appropriate for a child?

Oh,TTess, you've got it all wrong--kids USED to be a major part of their lives, but they raised them in a small broom closet off the kitchen, where they acquired perfect manners despite never needing to use them and learned how to raise their own children right, i.e, by leaving them with grandma to learn the joys of said broom closet.

(I can't help picturing the old lady who used to chase Benny Hill around and thump him with her brolly...)

starrsville, don't tell me YOU haven't been to a winery! Or perhaps you forgot. All but the tiniest wineries serve or sell soft drinks, many serve things like cheese plates, and some serve meals.

It seems that there are several people making posts that are the same people that say things like "you can't comment on children unless you have them...you just won't understand." They seem to have become the unfortunate parental group that don't realize when other people are giving them and their "lovely" family dirty looks due to the fact that they are ruining everyone else's hard fought vacation time. Keep living your lives like that to the detriment of the development of your children into adults.

I've seen "tastings" of Coke brands at the World of Coke, but no, I've not seen anything other than wine served in tasting rooms at wineries. Can't think of a single winery I've visited that served samples of other beverages. Must have just missed the Kiddie Tasting Rooms currently popular at certain wineries.

Oh, mah, it is falling on deaf ears. It seems like these children have a lot in common with the Lake Woebegone population.

Lake Woebegone... I love Garrison Keillor! Ah, but that is another thread. Wonder what he would say about kids in wineries?

Last time I heard him he had a great quote:

"God made March for people who don't drink...so they would know what a hangover feels like."

At the winery we visited while driving through New Zealand, (with our two children, ages 15 and 18 then) the winery served wine, soft drinks, cheese plates and a full lunch -
this winery encouraged families

perhaps the wineries in the central coast area also encourage families, I do not know, but it sounds to me like the people who live in that area or have been in that area are saying, yes, they can stop in with a child -

There are many wineries in Napa that do not allow children, and so they would not be able to go there - if I were doing an adult wine vacation/visit with my husband, and w/out our children, I would choose those wineries that do not allow children on our tour -
Also, I am assuming other wineries in CA follow suit- some encourage children while others do not-
And so then, the decision to bring your child or not rests with the parent.

well, this has been interesting to read. There are lots of opinions here...I will not offer mine on whether children should tag along or not but will say, as a central coast resident, that I have seen some (not many) children in wineries before.

MonicaRichards: I surely hope you are joking when you say visiting some of the wineries really isn't that different than "visiting a farm or a deli". Hello...have you visited any in the area? I don't know any like that. Many are very nice establishments. Some are small, but none I have been to are like visiting a farm. I am sure that was a joke or a nice way to make the OP feel more welcome. You will find many of the wines are award-winning. We don't want to give people the impression we don't have anything decent to serve here but wine you'd serve the cows!

I've asked Garrison. I'll let you know if I hear back from him.

Actually, no I wasn't kidding. I tend to like the rustic wineries, like Husch in the Anderson Valley. Great wine, served in an old farm building with rusting (picturesque) farm equipment and kids were welcome. When I drove through the central coast we saw many like that. And yes, the wine is still fantastic, they're just family run and non pretentious.

Hmmm...I've been to Husch and many others in the Anderson Valley and did not see kids.Obviously, people have their own ideas about it and the one person with the open mind was the OP!
Since we're talking about parents who take their little darlings to every place they deem fit because they are so "Special" here's an interesting article from MSNBC about the new narcissists of the "I'm special" generation. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17349066/

I never thought that children who have been taught to have good manners when eating in restaurants, visiting wineries, or staying in hotels would lead to narcissism or to the detriment of their development into adults. LOL!

It seems to me that comments such as "That would infringe upon THEIR precious vacation time" and "It isn't fair to the child" are better examples of the "I'm special" generation.

For those who are constantly having ruined vacations and dinners because of the mere presence of the child, I think there are deeper issues. When my husband and I dine out without our children, we certainly aren't noticing the other people in the restaurant.

Ah, starrsville--World of Coke? That explains a lot, dearie.

Yes, doesn't it though. Silly me. Friends with kids in town and I took them to the World of Coke and they could taste all the different flavors from around the world. Such, a silly, silly thing to do.

Now, after reading this thread, I realize I should have taken them to wineries instead. Far more appropriate evidently - at least to you. :-?

I don't beleive the Anderson Valley is on the central coast. There are many small wineries, but not many like barns, farms, or deli's. Oh well, it really doesn't matter in the large scope of things, anyway, does it? As long as the wine is good... that is what should matter :)

wtm- that's precisely the problem. You aren't noticing other people. It is funny that this is even a question "are kids welcome at wineries." I guess it says enough that there is even a debate or a reasonable number of people that think that kids should be at wineries.

The "me" generation of parents believe that since they can afford to bring their children everywhere, they therefore should.

sorry, wtm but that's not so. I share custody with my ex. That's been hard on my kids going back and forth constantly. They've adjusted well and are not spoiled. I take several adult trips w/hubby to CA and Europe yearly. I have only 2 weeks to vacation with my kids. I consider that special time, and yes, it's "their time" cause their Dad doesn't take them anywhere. When in NYC, they were fine with me shopping in different store departments, etc, but if I were to take my kids to CA, I wouldn't bore them with wineries.

LLinda- I just read the article you linked on MSN. Very good and relevant to this discussion.

There was a big debate 3-4 months ago about a Chicago bakery (I think) that put up a sign after many bratty kids and hapless parents started frequenting the place. The sign that said something to the effect of "everyone doesn't like crying children, so if your children are being noisy, crying, etc., then take them out so others can relax."

That was, as many pro-children in winery posters would suggest, a decision made by a business owner as to what his clientele should be and act like. Of course, all of the mommy groups went into a huge uproar. In contrast, many of his customers (and a number with children, but well behaved children) applauded his decision because they were sick of what some of the posters in this thread are complaining about: children being everywhere. It is one thing to bring your children to places that perhaps they do not belong. But, unfortunately, often the same parents that do not distinguish between "adult" places and "kid" places are the same parents that allow their kids to scream, break things, cry, and generally act terribly, without stepping in.

Ruby - Many of the places in Central Coast are in towns such as Solvang, Buelton, Los Olivos. These towns are full of tasting rooms that are tasting rooms/gift shop/restaurant combos. I think Solvang (Dutch facades) is the most geared toward children although somewhat tacky. Many of the gift shops will have things that appeal to children and will have nothing to do with wine.

In Buelton, there is an ostrich farm near the Hitching Post (from the movie Sideways fame). Your daughter will probably enjoy that. There are also many horse farms in the area and some offer riding.

I had lunch at Los Olivos Cafe(also in Sideways)and there were several children eating there. You can "taste" while having lunch. They have a bar and wine shop area and also have dining tables inside and out. Portions are huge and the food was very good.

A much more casual option is the Los Olivos Grocery at the edge of town. I'm not sure you can taste there or if they just sell by the bottle. You walk to the back to order at the deli and then go back out front to the tables and they will bring your food out. It's a gourmet deli/grocery, but they will have things a 4 year old would enjoy if she is a picky eater.

The Central Coast vineyards in the countryside are geared more towards tasting only and their gift shops contain mostly wine related items.

I suggest you to stick to the tasting rooms in the towns which will take less time. Los Olivos probably has 20 tasting rooms in a 2 block area.

I don't mean to stereotype, but typically on these threads where children are in question the 'anti-children brigade' is oft-times led by people who don't even have children. In which case, I would tend to value your opinion to a somewhat lessor degree than someone who is a parent. It would be similar to me commenting in the negative on something such as Scotch. I don't care for it, don't know a lot about it & will stick w/bourbon having been unduly influenced while residing in Louisville Ky. Wouldn't you care to hear from a vastly experienced Scotch drinker, than me ?

Funny, the so-called "anti-kid brigade" in this thread seems to be composed mostly of grandparents. They seem convinced that it's a generational issue, as in "apres moi, le deluge."

SanParis,

Why would someone's opinion not matter if they dont have kids?
If there is a screaming child running through a wine tasting room - and a person has a problem with that - would it matter whether or not they have kids?
Dont think so.

You've got it backwards, SAnParis, at least with this issue. Parents are much more likely to be biased in their opinion on the question posed in this thread. So, if you're going to discount anyone's opinions, it should be those of the parents.

<""For those who are constantly having ruined vacations and dinners because of the mere presence of the child, I think there are deeper issues"">

Who said they were constantly having ruined vacations and dinners because of children?

When I go on an adult vacation, I don't want to see or hear kids.

When I go to Disney, I know kids will be everywhere and that is part of the fun.

Agreed GoTravel....
for example, when I go out to a fancy dinner to be with my husband- I dont want to hear crying babies.
(note to parents if a restaruant doesnt have a kids menu - its not "family-friendly").

I think you should discount the opinions of people that haven't actually been to the Central Coast wineries and vineyards. Several people keep mentioning Napa and it's nothing like Napa.

I'm a parent of a 21 year old if that counts for anything.

Meant to add that Hitching Post Restaurant has wine tasting with dinner - 6 wines for $8 AND a kid's menu.
http://www.hitchingpost2.com/restaurant.html

"I don't mean to stereotype, but typically on these threads where children are in question the 'anti-children brigade' is oft-times led by people who don't even have children. In which case, I would tend to value your opinion to a somewhat lessor degree than someone who is a parent."

That's completely illogical. If the issue is whether children are appropriate in a setting, arguably it is parents who lack the necessary perspective to analyze the problem since it is parents, after all, who are creating the alleged problem.

kybourbon, I think some of the conversation is not Central Coast winery specific. It's been an interesting conversation, that's for sure!

I agree, I think the opinions of those that DON'T have kids should carry more weight in this type of debate. A lot of times in these discussions, it seems that parents cannot distinguish between issues with children in non-child friendly places and THEIR children in particular, and they get defensive because they feel their children are being attacked.

And this is not a generational, "remember the good old days" type of debate where elderly people are recalling a kinder, gentler era. I am in my late 20's. I think it's out of control the way some parents are in bringing their kids to fancy restaurants, etc....

And inevitably, when they realize that they can't win on the merits, the debate goes towards "well, if you don't have kids, your opinion doesn't matter." That is a pretty lame approach to logic. I hope that whoever said that isn't a lawyer or in any other type of profession where logic and sound arguments matter!

Well said, MikeT.

I realize these are difficult disagreements because they are about competing self-interests and different senses of entitlement.

This weekend, interesting, I was at some wineries and the only child I saw was sitting outside in a stroller while his parents and grandparents had a bottle of wine.

I then went to a restaurant with friends who often complain about children in restaurants. The place was full of kids. But as my friends said, "It's 5:30 in the evening, we don't have any room to complain about kids being here since that's exactly when they should be in a restaurant like this."

IOW, it's about understanding both your own self-interest and the interests of others. I don't talk during a symphony concert because it will bother others. It doesn't bother me if I talk, but it's about being considerate of others.

OK, I said I wouldn't post again, but I feel this has gotten way out of control from the OP. The talk of these parents being the special or me generation or the kids being that is rediculous. That generation is in high school and college now. I'm in my late 30's and my husband in his 40's.....far from the Me or special generation and our kids are also too young to be part of it(thank God). The key to this is WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CENTRAL COAST.....not Napa and I can also tell you the parents on this post are not the ones you are talking about because those people wouldn't care a lick about what you think and don't which is why their kids run wild in places that are not appropriate. As I said, our kids have been to MANY wineries with us, but one or 2 in a day...not a tour and sometimes one of us is outside with them. Yes, our kids go to very nice restaurants, but most either have high chairs and/or kids menus and we go early. Yes, if one of our kids is being a monster, one or all of us are out of there ASAP. I Do respect others because at times, We are out without the kids and as many post have said "You don't want to go where there are screaming children" As a parent of 3 kids, when I escape, I don't want to be around little monsters either, but if parents have their kids in a more adult place...I hope they are respectful of others too. This is not an all the time occurance for our kids either, but there are times they are in a more adult place. I wish I was part of the me/special generation, then I would have parents still alive and willing to take my little ones so there would be even less occurance. Please just don't make rediculous assumptions about who these parents are...I wouldn't dare take my kids on a wine tour vacation through Napa or Sonoma. That's why I haven't been there in 9 years. If a place is family friendly, we are there, if not ...we respect that too. We have always felt welcome in Central and South Coast wineries with the kids, but I'm not going to subject the kids to a tour and tastings of multiple places...Noone would enjoy it.

MOVE TO THE LOUNGE

Kybourbon, thank you for all the info! Sounds like a good idea.

Beachbum, I think a lot of us can relate and you explained the situation well.

Mah and Newbe, I take your opinions with a grain of salt. If you would've read my original question and my follow up clarification, you would know that it is not like the wineries were the destination of our vacation. We are merely driving THROUGH. And now that I know that there are tasting shops in town I don't even have to go to the winery. Not running into snobs like you is very appealing also.

ok, dumb question...I have never been to a real winery....but what is the difference between going to a winery specifically for the purpose of drinking wine, or touring the Budweiser factory, or going to a bar or a casino ?...just because it has a garden and is pretty, they still serve alcohol...heck, they make the alcohol....is is because wine is thought of as more "elegant" than beer ? You wouldn't take them to a bar or casino....I am just asking....

It's not a dumb question, Wednesday.

rubyselbow -- thats a pretty nasty comment directed at people who are sharing their opinions. Some people might have a few slurs to throw at those who bring children to inappropiate places.

I am now in the category of No Good Deed Goes Upunished. Rubyselbow, if you learned how to READ, you would see I've been encouraging you to bring your kids to wineries. I am on your side, or I was until I realized not even you appreciate it. You owe me an apology.