BTW, I didn't realize the heated debate this would spark. I really enjoyed reading the dialogue. Maybe I'll see ya in a Central Coast Winery. I promise I won't stay long and I won't hit the road "tipsy".

Well,
I hope to see you all when we are at the wineries with our 3 children who now ask if we are going to specific ones when we take our anual trip (when we are there at harvest time, they give the kids grapes, show them the vines, etc). I'll be sure to tell my kids to give you a big smile too. There are plenty of places in this big old world of ours that are adult only and you can go to almost any restaurant after 9:00pm and you won't find too many rug rats starting their dinner. Some of us are not fortunate enough to have young parents/inlaws/ nanny's etc to watch our kids for us at any time, so yes, we take our kids to some nice more adult places and we take them to Disneyland too. I'll be happy to leave them home if you want to come watch them for me... until then, I hope they grow up to be cultured kids that expose their kids to beautiful places and can go to one or 2 wineries and drive being within the legal limits. I can't believe that some of you think that we would drink enough with our kids, then drive back drunk.....That's what we buy the bottles for, to go back to the house/hotel and enjoy adult time when the kids go to bed. We are actually making our own wine at home with grapes from the Mendocino valley. Our 7 and 4 year old helped press the grapes too. I guess that's a horrible thing too.

I agree with 321go.

OK, OK, everybody calm down. The poster said the CENTRAL COAST, not the Napa or Sonoma Wine Country which is in NORTHERN CA.

The central coast is laid back and it's no big deal to bring your four year-old in the tasting room so you can decide which bottles you'd like to take home with you and sample a little. I live on the central coast, I know first hand what it's like. I wonder how many of these naysayers live here. I doubt that any do. I see a few names that I know don't live here, so don't sweat their negativity. You're fine bring your little darling - welcome!

I suppose what I don't understand is why folks think it is okay to bring their well-behaved little one to an adult venue with the premise that it's "our special trip and our little one is well behaved" when others at the winery or the restaurant may very well be on THEIR special trip and have left their little one at home or with a sitter so they can enjoy a special day/ evening at an adult venue? Yes, you CAN bring your little one anywhere you want to, but how about letting the little one play outside with one parent while the other parent goes in to taste and choose the wine.

I watched a lovey dovey couple react when a very happy 4 year old made her entrance to the restaurant happily waving at everyone and the family settled in at the table next to their little cozy corner table. Mid-day. Trendy restaurant with a sophisticated vibe but of course kids can come - although she was the only little one in the place. But, at night or at a winery, their disappointment would have to be even greater. They are there (maybe sans kids at home, maybe not), settling in for a romantic dinner and here comes Little Miss.

I agree with 321go. What happened to taking kids to the multitude of family friendly venues and respect others by leaving kids at home rather than taking them to adult venue - just because you can?

Starrsville, the point really is that wineries in the Central Coast AREN'T that adult centered. The smaller wineries all around California welcome children and may have their own children or grandchildren there. Napa down the central strip is not the same as the tiny winery in Paso Robles.

I visited dozens of central coast vineyards and wineries in February. There were children at some of the places, but they weren't disruptive. Central coast seems quite a bit more casual than Napa/Sonoma. You might enjoy the tasting rooms in Los Olivos/Buelton/Solvang/etc. or other small towns more than going to the vineyards. You can wander down the streets and peak in. That way you can judge whether it is somewhere you and your child will feel comfortable.

<<<Author: starrsville
Date: 04/22/2007, 11:59 pm

I suppose what I don't understand is why folks think it is okay to bring their well-behaved little one to an adult venue with the premise that it's "our special trip and our little one is well behaved>>>>

Hmmm...maybe because there are circumstances that you are not aware of and if they're well behaved it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter to whom? The parents who are taking the child to an adult venue or the parents who left their kids at home so they could enjoy a romantic getaway to an adult venue?

Look, the central issue in this thread is whether a winery is an adult venue or not. This question will never be resolved, as it's a matter of opinion. It has been throughly discussed, opinions have been expressed, and now I'm going to make everyone mad by saying that the sniping is becoming childish.

I'm going to drop this. No one is going to change another's decision, I am sure. I should have left it with "I agree with 321go" because I think she said it best -

Author: 321go
Date: 04/20/2007, 06:10 pm
When I was growing up (admittedly, it was in the Stone Age), our family has child-centered outings (parks, amusement parks), family outings (picnics, camping, movies), and adults-only outings (dinner in "fancy" restaurants, weekend getaways). I know my parents looked forward with eager anticipation to their adults outings. As much as they enjoyed their kids, they really appreciated time to themselves without kids clinging to them. So they got the grandparents to watch us (for the weekends) or a babysitter (the dinners). Doesn't anyone do that anymore?

Rubyselbow - have a great trip - you and your family are most welcome to my neck of the coast! ;;)

It is not always practical nor feasible to 'dump the kids off' somewhere. As stated prior, we always stop at a number of wineries on the way to the Mts. Here in NC it is more common than not. To answer another inquiry, yes we do have adult time dinner, shows & what not, sans kids. I've never taken either to California but as stated prior, most of the places I fre quent I am sure they would be welcome. As for my last question, no one has spoken up to say if they do, or don't, have kids, in which case your opinion means even less than before... also a big hurray for Fodors,,,I got my old name back.

&quot;<i>As for my last question, no one has spoken up to say if they do, or don't, have kids, in which case your opinion means even less than before</i>&quot;

Whoa - well I guess that explains everything . . . . . .

Why would the value of a person's opinion be based on their parental status?

OK, SAn, so since you are probably not living in the Middle East, that means your opinions on what's going on there doesn't matter, either.

Bravo, bashful! You hit the nail on the head! Just because one CAN take their children -- no matter how well-behaved -- somewhere does not mean they SHOULD take them there.

And complaining about drunks at a winery is somewhat akin to complaining about screaming children at Disneyland.

As said previously, we have plenty of places to go for just adult time and do manage some outings without the darlings, but as most of us with children now know......this is not the stone age and many of us don't have the option of leaving our kids for a week to go wine tasting. Our parents are deceased or to elderly to care for little ones. If we were only fortunate enough to have young parents who were able and willing. We are not idiots!! If our kids are not going to be content in a place long enough...we are out of there or as one poster said, at times, one of us is outside playing with the kids, while the other tastes. I agree also, that this is Central Coast where some wineries (believe it or not and accept it or not) have child areas, child centered activities, family friendly events and sometimes their kids there. I've said enough as many others have said and it's quite obvious that those with the BIG problem have no kids and god help them if they do. Things aren't changing anytime soon, so get used to it. Maybe I'll take my kids to the vinyards in Italy where they will even offer them a glass!!!

The wineries HAVE to provide that stuff - beacuse of self indulgent parents who don't recognize or accept that there are places that their kiddies don't belong.

Which came first the chicken or the egg? No playgrounds, but all these children keep turning up, so they add a playground - and voila! &quot;of course kids are welcome, they even have a playgound&quot; The same reason Casinos have video arcades.

The simple answer - If one has kids and cannot leave them, then they do not take wine tasting trips until they can.

Now, just stopping in a winery to pick up a case - that is different. No problem w/ that at all. But for tasting - no children. But the parents who do this aren't open to how inappropriate it is - so more playgrounds and more kids. sheesh . . . .

Thank you for the welcome, TTess!

&lt;&lt;The wineries HAVE to provide that stuff ...&gt;&gt;

A business does not HAVE to provide that stuff. A winery, restaurant or hotel are all welcome to hang a no children allowed sign. The reason they provide the playgrounds, etc. is that it is good for business - i.e. enough parents are buying wine to make those playgrounds profitable.

Yes - they are good for business because so many clueless parents were bringing their children along. It is either provide romper room so mommy and daddy won't leave w/o buying.

Like I said -- chicken or egg??

If you can't find someone to watch your kids, then you can't go. It's that simple. It's called being a responsible adult. I don't have kids because I WANT to go to adult places. When I do have kids, my priorities and expectations about where I can and can't go will have to change.

American society is very pro-children and pro-family, which I think is good. However, what is with the trend in the last 10 years or so that people's children are welcome EVERYWHERE? I've seen parents get mad b/c their small children are not wanted at weddings, I've seen parents let their kids cry on and on in church (especially Easter) and at rated R movies. Haven't we gone too far as a society?

&lt;&lt;If you can't find someone to watch your kids, then you can't go.&gt;&gt;

LOL! It seems like quite a few of us already have. It's that simple.

&lt;&lt;A winery, restaurant or hotel are all welcome to hang a no children allowed sign.&gt;&gt;

Do you live in the US? There are anti discrimination laws that prohibit what you suggest. CA is the most litigious state in the Union. Can you even imagine what would happen if an establishment tried to hang a sign like that? ;)

Frankly I wish they'd put up a no children allowed sign at Disney World. It would be so much more enjoyable. . .

Author: wtm003
Date: 04/23/2007, 06:13 pm
&lt;&lt;If you can't find someone to watch your kids, then you can't go.&gt;&gt;

LOL! It seems like quite a few of us already have. It's that simple.

I think that sums up the divide on this thread. Some feel that, if the kids are well-behaved, then it's okay to take them to an adult venue. Some would like adult venues to remain &quot;adult&quot;. Clarification - I am not speaking specifically to wineries or wineries in certain parts of certain states, but in general. Some folks who have made arrangements for a special getaway without kids would like to arrive at that getaway without others' kids there - no matter how well-behaved. The only way to do that I guess is for the business to state &quot;no children under x yrs of age&quot;. A remote cabin suggested on this board today made that distinction on their website.

When I drive half way across this nation for a vacation trip I take my kids along. If I decide to visit a winery, the kids will have to be accommodated or I don't get to go. If the winery makes me feel unwelcome because I have my children along, I don't buy from them.....ever. And I mention their coldness to my friends who also make it a point to avoid that winery's ware. Excluding children can be a very dangerous practice as a lot of people have them. Word of mouth can be wonderful advertising or horrible, depending on how you have treated your customers.

Well, since the OP has posted that she has decided not to visit any wineries, I won't address that-

but the wineries providing kids areas -
then they've decided they either want to encourage families or they didn't have the you-know-whats to say No Children Allowed -

There are plenty of resort and hotel destinations that do not allow children,that haven't bended their rules, so the wineries can do it if they want to -
maybe some of them want families, maybe some of them need the business, their choice.

I have kids and love kids, but if I am planning a visit to wine country, I would like to think there are enough adult only wine tastings - I wouldn't plan a trip like that to have to see 'kids play areas' and kids making noise, even if it is happy, laughing noise - if I planned a wine tasting vacation I am assuming it is an adult vacation

rm's response is a perfect example of why wineries have started catering to people who want to bring their kids - because if they try to keep it an adult venue, then there are more and more folks who will boycott them.

But then, I don't have kids, so please disreguard my opinion on this matter - LOL.

I'll start out by saying I've never been to a winery -- I'm deprived, I know. I wish that winery owners and restaurant owners would read this thread. It is clear from the postings that there is a market for both child friendly and non-child-friendly wineries and restaurants. But I think it's the wineries and restaurants that should take a stand and declare themselves to be one or the other. People who are trying to get away from kids for an evening or a few days, could choose a restaurant or winery and be confident that the bucolic experience will not be marred by someone else's rugrats. There is nothing wrong with declaring one's establishment to be adults only. Even in California. They do it with bars and strip clubs, don't they? Then on the other side, you could have the more &quot;family&quot; wineries and restaurants that have patios, and a little space to run around. The policies and signs should be up front and visible. If everyone knew what they were in for at the beginning, there would be a lot less misunderstanding.

I feel as if I'm in a parallel universe. We are talking wineries. Alcohol. One must be 21 years old to consume the product. Wineries.

We aren't talking about apple orchards or crayon factories. We are talking about businesses who produce and sell wine. Alcohol.

For that reason, I expect the visitors of the tasting rooms to be of an age to taste the product. For that reason, I would expect the attendees to be adults.

For that reason, I've never considered a winery a vacation destination while traveling with children. I really am surprised that others do.

Just shows that I'm out of the loop, I guess.

BTW, on visits to wineries in California and Georgia I have never noticed children in the tasting rooms.

I'm pretty sure my kids didn't taste last time...

Our children were allowed into the tasting rooms so they could learn about the wine and wine tasting. They were NOT allowed to taste.

Sipping a glass of wine with your meal is not the same as going to the bar and getting drunk. In many parts of the world, wine is a normal part of eating a meal. It enhances the food and the camaraderie that goes with a nice meal.

Once again, my kids have only been welcomed in child-friendly wineries in NC. Please read the entire posts prior to picking out one line to comment on. Yes, I am probably better than average wine-educated. No, this has never been an issue in any winery when I have been present. Like I said before, I've never had them out to Napa/Sonoma but I feel they would be very welcome in many Sonoma wineries that we frequent. I don't even feel welcome in many Napa wineries. Starrsville - you wouldn't notice my children either...

m_mn - exactly..part of the problem in the US is a total lack of educating your children to consume responsibly. I'll have no such problem. Europe handles alcohol so much better than we do. Which is mainly to keep them in the closet &amp; then turn them loose when they go to college. Last time I was in Paris I seem to recollect children being present in nearly all the cafes that I visited.

SAnParis, I might notice your children even if others don't. Especially if they are well mannered and polite. I like to notice that.

While I come from a family where wine was served at meals and one did not have to wait until 18 (at that time) to try some, - and everyone makes different decisions based on their children and their family history - it is often heard in the US that Europe does not have the problems we do with alcohol and specifically with teenage alcohol and this is not the case - I worked for years on teen alcohol statistics - both US and internationally - and France, as well as many other european countries, has a significant problem with alcohol involvement in teen illness, mental health problems, auto accidents and deaths - not unlike the US -
as well as adult w/ custodial and domestic violence among adults which is stretching their health care dollars and available care -
it is a misnomer that because European countries do not impose the same restrictions as the US that they have less of an alcohol or drug problem with their teens.

Sometimes I think it's a matter of &quot;time spent&quot; at the venue. Someone spending 15 minutes in the tasting room to select some wine to purchase is not that irritating (unless the child is running around, whining - not wining, etc.). However, someone spending 2+ hours in the tasting room with their child getting more bored every minute is going to be irritating.

P.S. Bars and strip joints are barred by law in California from allowing anyone under 21 in the premises. Tasting rooms and restaurants are not under that restriction - although the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control recommends that children not be seated at the bar in a restaurant (and likewise at the tasting room counter).

I feel like I need to redirect attention again to where the original poster is going to wineries. Not wine country per se, but as a stop on a road trip in the Central Coast. It's a lot different than taking a kid on a wine tour in St. Helena. And it really isn't that different from stopping at a farm or a deli.

Wow, now people who have never even been to a winery are opining. Free country, indeed. But a winery isn't a bar or even a restaurant. Starrsville, using your, um, logic, kids shouldn't go to restaurants where alcohol is served, because if they can't sample EVERYTHING on a menu, they shouldn't go in?