Is Disney a cult?
 

Just returned from WDW trip. Kids had fun but my wife and I really didn't. Food everywhere was overpriced & bad. Because we had no car (didn't think we'd need it) we felt as if we were prohibited from returning to the real world..we were trapped! Everyone has plastic smiles and every other world is "magic." What's scary is that some people probably visit Epcot and conclude, therefore, they don't have to bother visiting the real contries. Our friends who go to WDW year after year are nuts! Anyone else feel like this or are we the real nuts?

Paul:<BR><BR>I never went to WDW after Epcot Center. I never want to go back again. It is always too crowded, I feel like I am suffocating in all the crowd. What you need is a cruise to the Caribbean. That is my plan in early 2003. Sit back and relax or plan activities based on what you want to do.

Hey, whatever turns your clock! The thing that I don't understand is why do the people that don't like Disney spend so much time analysing others that do like it? Why would anyone care if someone else wants to go to Disney or not?

It's interesting to me because it's amazing and concerning that so many millions of Americans and others from around the world automatically assume that going to WDW is the number one vacation in the world. It really is kind of scary.

I love Disney. I am going to WDW next month for the 20th time. My husband and I have very busy, sometimes stressful, lives. Disney is a place where we feel we can let our true inner children out. No, we do not go to Epcot and conclude that we do not have to visit other countries. Believe it or not, some of us Disney fans actually do travel to other places. We also do a fair amount of European and Caribbean travel. However, I find it hard to believe that you were surprised by the un-reality of it all. What did you think it would be like? And did you really think you were going to find a bargain there? IF you don't like WDW, fine. But like Deb said, why do people sit around analyzing why others like Disney?

Oh I'm with you on that one Paul.<BR>Disney's efforts at "branding", especially toward kids, is borderline excessive.<BR>As a business enterprise, of course, the theme parks are designed to totally swallow you up and force you to live life by the prices and rules Disney sets. Quite aggressive.<BR>I went to WDW once in 1972, again in 1997.<BR>Never again, though.<BR>

Aloha;<BR><BR>I really like Disney and I really like to travel to real places too. I know the difference between the two and I think this is the point. Disney is not real and sometimes in this too real world that is what we seek. I go to wdw for the fantasy. I have gone to wdw since 1973 and never been disappointed. The cast members are always nicer than any staff member at any comparably priced hotel I have ever stayed at. The attitude I have always encountered there is "how can we make this right", whether it is my fault or theirs. Two examples of many;<BR>1] My friend had my kids park tickets and went home to Tampa with the tickets, Disney employees let the kids in without tickets. <BR><BR>2] My husband checked in while my son and I stayed at the mk. For stupid reasons I had no id and no way to contact him. Disney gave us charge privlidges [sp] and access to a room.<BR><BR>3] I know I said only 2..... I checked into PO [not an expensive property] once and the sink had not been cleaned. I called the front desk and politely asked that someone clean the sink and was promptly moved to another room. When we returned to our new room after visiting the parks there was a large fruit and gift basket awaiting us.<BR><BR>I think the whole idea is that disney treats people very well. This is especially gratifying to the people who are treated poorly or essentially ignored by other 'resort' properties.<BR><BR>BTW I have been to London, Greece, Hawaii [3 times] and Disney [4 times] in the past two years and never had a bad day anywhere. I think you just have to go places and appreciate them for themselves. Disney is an amusement park; it is not a national museum, it is not a cultural mecca, come on people it's based on a cartoon of a mouse.<BR>

Why, Jack, is it "concerning" and "scary" that millions of people enjoy something that you don't? Is being different from you, in what people enjoy, really a problem?<BR><BR>BTW, in my decades of travel, I've only driven past Orlando, and have no real desire to see WDW or Epcot. That makes me different from a large segment of the world. But I don't consider that fact scary in the least, nor do I conclude that my taste in entertainment must be superior to their's. It's just different, that's all. So I don't really give it any thought at all.

What is amazing about people who like Disney is that do they work in a major city and have to be in a commuting mess every day? If so, why would you want to surround yourself with yet another mega crowd and traffic jam? I always found it a turn off to go to a city or large amusement park for vacation. Does everyone live in the countryside?

1. In reply to Stephanie: People have different tastes and look for different things in a vacation. Different cities are very different. Big cities offer a certain excitement and many activities and attractions that appeal to many.<BR><BR>2. Unfortunately, it seems that most people don't even realize that the Disney Corporation operates sweatshops where people work excessively long hours in terrible, hazardous conditions for mere pennies.

"Even my 10yr old son does not want to go to Disneyparks anymore(we<BR>have been at Disneyworld once).<BR>He said,: 'dad it is only a big shoppingmall with a few attactions,<BR>and you have to pay to get in a shoppingmall?? and the prices in that<BR>shoppingmall are higher than anyware else, dad whats wrong with those<BR>people?'"<BR><BR>- From a recent post to the Usenet group rec.travel.caribbean

Paul, I do think many people have a cult mentality with regards to Disney. I've been 5 times over 25 years. I think the attractions and theming are amazing BUT, the food is awful, it is overpriced and it is increasingly crowded. On our last visit last month, we walked into MK and walked out. We weren't about to endure the horrible crowds and long lines.<BR><BR>When I returned I posted my opinions of the terrible crowds, and the fact that WDW could have extended the hours to alleviate the crowds, elimination of EE, as well as what I thought of the food on the Disboards. I actually lost 5 pounds in the 6 days I was there the food was so bad I couldn't eat it. I also included good points of the trip.<BR>Well you couldn't believe how upset and defensive people got! "The food is very good", "What do you expect at a theme park", "Of course it's crowded, it's Spring Break, take your kids out of school", "Disney had to cut costs" etc, etc. Believe me, you can't say ANYTHING negative over there. People will defend it to death. I really do agree, it's like a cult, and many of those "Disney freaks" are nuts!<BR>

One poster asks: Why do the people that don't like Disney spend so much time analysing others that do like it? <BR><BR>Well, perhaps if those who do not like Disney were not treated like heretics, or anti-American, when they dare utter a criticism against the Disney empire, they wouldn't have to wonder. All those Disney apologists who say "to each their own" need to live by those words too, instead of attacking those who don't share their enthusiasm for the Rodent.<BR><BR>I was dragged to Disneyworld in my youth and hated it, but just figured it wasn't for me. As an adult, I've been able to observe the influence that Disney has had in American "culture," and its impact on the children in my life, and am bothered by it. <BR><BR>Most tellingly, I have dealt with Disney on a business level, and have found their corporate culture to be rude, arrogant, and unyielding, leaving no room to deal on anyone's terms but their own. Their response to every objection was "But we're Disney." After hearing that dozens of times, we walked away from the table.<BR><BR>Of course, perhaps that is why Disney is so popular. It plays right into American ethnocentrism so perfectly: regardless of what some people say, they truly believe there is one way -- their own.

I have annual passes, love Disney, hate the crowds. But we go for the rides. What's so bad about that? We go with the expectation that there will be lots of other people there, and we're not disappointed. We take our own food. It's really simple. Either you love it or you hate it. It doesn't mean anyone else is "nuts" for not thinking the way you do!

HateMickey, your theory on why Disney is so popular -- that "It plays right into American ethnocentrism so perfectly" -- has one undeniable flaw, which proves that it's totally invalid. Namely, Disney is popular the world over. Go to Japan Disney or EuroDisney and you'll see your hypothesis is obviously false. Heck, go to the DL or WDW and look for non-American tourists, and you'll get an even quicker refutation of your hypothesis.<BR><BR>It's not just Americans that differ from me in wanting the Disney experience. It's people the world over.<BR><BR>And I don't think it's a cult that they have opinions different from my own. It's just a difference, nothing more. Nothing sinister, and definitely nothing to think is scary. Just different tastes.

The fact that people in other countries seek the Disney experience does not dilute American ethnocentrism. It just demonstrates that enthocentrism has successfully morphed into cultural imperialism. The Disney propaganda machine has been so effective in spreading its message that its reach is global.<BR><BR>

To the posters who are worried and concerned about the people who enjoy Disney, please relax. No one will force you to go there. To those concerned about the commercialism, what do you expect? No one will force you to buy there. To the poor person who actually lost weight there, please eat. Perhaps you will find a better meal at BK or Mickey D's. I believe the people who are the most distressed by their WDW visits are those whose expectations were way too high to begin with. Possibly this is a pattern with them of "putting things on a pedistal" and then being disapointed beyond what is reasonable. Anyone who goes to Disney expecting private time on quiet beaches or empty rides is bound to be disapointed. I believe with todays mass communication, most people are aware that Disney is located in Florida (hot in summer), and is visited by many people every day, some who do not even use deodorant. Since they have boundries on the property, it tends to become crowded as more people arrive. Hence, the crowds and heat. Therefore, since this is common knowledge it may be not be the best place for people to visit who know ahead of time that they do not enjoy this type of thing. None of what I said has anything to do with a "cult", or bashing anyone who disagrees. I am saying it to point out that some people are simply unreasonable and it is unfair to blame Disney for this. I promise not to complain the next time that I walk up the Eiffel Tower that there are too many steps, or that a Zoo smells bad in the heat.

Although it does not "concern" me that people are obsessed with Disney, I have certainly noticed the pheonomena. I have two very bizarre acquaintances that are Disney-people.<BR><BR>Mouse-head #1: She works part time at the Disney store so she can get a discount on the crap (and call herself a cast member). I watched her give a mutual friend a wedding gift that was a picture frame encrusted with Disney characters and she said " I know you don't like this stuff, but..." Now that's compulsive behavior.<BR><BR>Mouse-head #2: Is a Jehovah's Witness and thus believes Santa and the Easter Bunny are demonic and will not let his child participate in such, but takes her to see Mickey every year. <BR><BR>You do the math.

The very fact that Paul feels the need to ask this question demonstrates the cult-like nature of the Disney themepark phenomenon.

Just to expand on that:<BR><BR>Because of the mass indoctrination that the Disney theme parks are the ultimate vacation, Paul actually wonders if something is wrong with him because he didn't enjoy them! Think about that.

I completely agree with Paul Rabe. I don't get you people who are so concerned with others who like Disney. I went to Disney once as a child and have no interest in going there as an adult. That doesn't mean that there is something wrong or "scary" about others who want to go there. Many people might not like my choice of vacation destinations and that's fine. <BR><BR>To those Disney bashers - Disney is a huge, wildly successful corporation so of course they will engage in commercialism, branding, and will likely have a somewhat arrogant corporate attitude. So what - if you don't like it, don't buy into it.

I think this is more an example of someone who just wants to complain about something that is popular.<BR><BR>Stephanie P can be found on every thread here if it is bashing something..from NY to fat people on airplanes,consider the source when you read these threads.<BR>

Did you know that Disney get all thoses cokes and fuji film free!! so they can then charge the visitors outrageous prices and the company love it because it is free advertising for them. I learned this working on my MBA, ever since I will not have anything to do with disney or its products. Thank God my kids don't have disneyitis...and yes it is very expensive...the mouse is a profitable corporation.

Evidently it is as another poster wants to take his wife to WDW for a romantic weekend. IF this was my hubby we would be spending that weekend finding attorneys, and moving money around... an appliance beats the mouse any day.

I think you're missing Paul's point. He (and I), get the feeling that some people are SO enamored of Disney that they can't find any fault with it, and have an excuse for every little problem that some people have with it. Why can't people just admit that the food is bad, or overpriced, or it's too crowded?<BR><BR> No, they have to give reasons why it's so crowded, instead of agreeing that Disney could take measures to lessen the crowds by expanding hours, reinstate early entry, etc. As I said, I love WDW, but I am not so blinded by loyalty that I can't see how things have diminished recently. It seems that for some Disney can do no wrong.

Mousetrap, How true! I couldn't believe that either. Imagine going to WDW for a romantic weekend! Is it me or what? I'm with you, He might as well buy me a vacuum cleaner, it has as much romance as a trip to the kiddie capitol of the world!

Admittedly, I'm happier visting Epcot than having to travel eight hours or more to visit the real countries. What's so wrong with that? Disney has done a lot of research and as a result has been able to provide the very best of each country. It's convenient, fun, and best of all, I don't have to leave the very best country in the world!

Molly, Oooohhh Kay.

Holly, as I mentioned in my previoinous post, I love Disney and am going for the 20th time. However, your attitude is kind of scary and sad. Epcot provides a glimpse of the countries, but certainly does not provide the best of them.

My antipathy to Disney far outstrips yours, Paul, because I have seen firsthand the concerted effort the Disney corp. makes to control as much as possible of what we know, see, feel, buy. <BR><BR>First, the personal: I got foodpoisoning at Epcot and let Disney know, just to recommend they check the Mexico pavillion kitchen. I was barraged with calls from doctors and lawyers designed to convince me I didn't food poisoning there (circumstances were incontrovertible, but I didn't care, wasn't looking for a freebie or anything) and warn me not to pursue the matter and imply that there would be bad consequences if I did.<BR><BR>I took my son there 2ce during his childhood and yes, there is magic, but it is a very scarily plastic magic, and I began to expect to hear that hypnotically blandly cheerful voice over my head in the bathroom: "welcome to Goofy's restroom. Please take your seat as soon as you arrive. For your convenience, Minnie has placed toilet paper in the container in front of you. Please do not take more than you need. You can purchase Happy Pooh and Piglet toilet paper and paper towels in the shop just to your right when you leave. Have a Disney Day!"<BR><BR>Professional: As a media observer PhD, I've had to study the structure of the entertainment and information industry. Disney owns a huge amount including ABC, lots of cable channels, and of course all the entertainment, toy, and clothing companies. They wield an exceptionally heavy hand over employees, the communities where they are located, and also over the media. No one can question anything they do, or they, too, will "suffer consequences." You will never see anything critical about Disney on ABC, and if you think that's ok, then you've forgotten what "freedom of the press" is supposed to protect.<BR><BR>I commend to you Carl Hiassen's book, "Team Rodent," which is a collection of his newspaper columns on Disney.

Man, I love this country!

We get the Disney Channel on Cable and it used to be just programming but now it's turned into advertising for all things Disney. And, don't you love all the toy tie ins with the movies??? I especially love their ads on Disney videso, "buy it today before it's not available anymore." Not to mention, Disney has completely ruined the enviroment around Orlando....

Don't put Disney down, it attracts millions of families each year. When they're at Disney, they're not at the places I want to go to. Disney saves the rest of us from the screeching brats and obtuse parents, so god bless the Mouse!!!!

Here's a perfect example of how misguided some of the Disney fanatics are. I was on the resort forum on Disboards.com, reading a thread written by the mother of a 6 year old girl who had touched an exposed, 6 inch electrical wire which was sticking out of the wall in a hallway of the Contemporary Resort. The family had been waiting to attend church services on Easter in the crowded hallway. <BR><BR>The child received a severe shock and electrical burns on her hand, ambulance came, bandaged her wounds. An accident report was filled out and that was that.<BR><BR>The mother only posted because she was concerned that she hadn't heard anything from Disney. She had no intention of sueing, but thought it would have been nice if someone had contacted her to let her know how she could submit the medical bills she had from visiting the doctor at home for follow-up care. She also wanted an apology and assurance that no wires would be left out like that again to injure another child.<BR><BR>Posters actually flamed her, said it was her childs fault for touching the wire, or the parents fault for not watching the child more carefully! Huh? God forbid they blame their precious Disney! Some then ranted that it was not Disney's fault (Whose was it then, I wonder?), and it would be immoral to even consider sueing Disney. Unbelievable.<BR><BR>If my child had such a painful injury because of Disney negligence, you could bet I'd have a lawsuit against them so fast their tails would spin.

DISNEY IS A CULT. I posted once on this site looking for information and admitting that I didn't want to go but my family did and wanted me to come and I was severly and rudely attacked. The only thing that ever made me think it might be good is that fact that guys who have just won the World Series are asked...what is the first thing you are going to do...they always so GO BACK TO DISNEYWORLD and I get the feeling that they really mean it, not just marketing hype....so it must be fun. I would be willing to pay twice the already outrageous prices, though, if it meant I could go during an exclusive, limited access week. I wish they would launch that as an option at least a few times per year, even if it were in the winter and freezing cold.

Kelly, Well said. My wife and I don't have kids yet, and we went to Disney last year. We enjoyed our time, but vowed not to return until we had children at an age they could enjoy it without crying and being insufferable. I hadn't been there since 1984, and still marvel at the spectacle of it all. However, after 2 days, I had had enough, and got really tired of feeling like I had a vacuum stuck to my back pocket where my wallet is housed. We are going to Hawaii in a few weeks, and have been there before, and just expect certain places to vacuum your wallet, but Disney was a bit ridiculous. We have friends who are amazed that we would travel all the way to Hawaii and spend a lot of money when we could(and I quote) "save money and go to Disney!". These are the folks in which I refer to as the 3 blind mice. They seem completely clueless that the mouse is in their back pocket. Oh well, as long as they have fun, who am I to criticize?

So, let's see:<BR>1. "the mouse is a profitable corporation." Oh my god, the horror!<BR>2. ABC doesn't criticize Disney and thus violates "freedom of the press." Just a wild guess here, but I'd say that poster has (a) never graduated from journalism school and (b) no idea what the concept of freedom of the press is all about. The funny part of that post is that the writer IDs himself as a "media observer PhD." It sounds as if the PhD is in basket-weaving.

TO: Here you go:<BR>Maybe you and I weren't reading the same postings at the Disboard, because the post I read had ONE person who suggested the parents should've been watching the child, and EVERYONE else flamed the person who suggested it. Maybe you need to go back and read it again, instead of trying to inflame people here by telling untrue stories. The people on that site were very upset by the fact the child was hurt and suggested many ways to contact those in authority at Disney to rectify the situation. Why did you write what you did? When the point a person tries to make is correct, it isn't necessary to exagerate or lie to make it. Just another example of those who insist upon bashing people who decide to vacation somewhere that they themselves don't like. If you don't like Disney, stay home. If you don't like Disney posts, don't read them. If you can't answer a posted question, don't.

To "loving": actually the PHD media observer guy makes a vary valid point about ABC and Disney.<BR>If all media sources were owned by companies trying to push agendas of their own, you might well get only skewed information rather than "the truth".<BR>Since ABC has competition not owned by Disney that isn't going to happen at present. But the notion is a still a little disturbing.<BR>Can you imagine life without reliable news info? That would be really creepy.

"To the posters who are worried and concerned about the people who enjoy &lt;CULTS&gt;, please relax. No one will force you to go there. To those concerned about the commercialism, what do you expect? No one will force you to buy there. To the poor person who actually lost weight there, please eat. Perhaps you will find a better meal at BK or Mickey D's. I believe the people who are the most distressed by their &lt;HEAVEN'S GATE&gt; visits are those whose expectations were way too high to begin with. Possibly this is a pattern with them of "putting things on a pedistal" and then being disapointed beyond what is reasonable. Anyone who goes to &lt;SCIENTOLOGY&gt; expecting private time on quiet beaches or empty rides is bound to be disapointed. I believe with todays mass communication, most people are aware that &lt;RETIREE CONDOS&gt; is located in Florida (hot in summer), and is visited by many people every day, some who do not even use deodorant. Since they have boundries on the property, it tends to become crowded as more people arrive. Hence, the crowds and heat. Therefore, since this is common knowledge it may be not be the best place for people to visit who know ahead of time that they do not enjoy this type of thing. None of what I said has anything to do with a "cult", or bashing anyone who disagrees. I am saying it to point out that some people are simply unreasonable and it is unfair to blame Disney for this. I promise not to complain the next time that I walk up the Eiffel Tower that there are too many steps, or that a Zoo smells bad in the heat."