I'll tell you what's scary. My mother-in-law and father-in-law travel to Florida every Christmas holiday to visit relatives and EVERY YEAR they want to drag my husband and myself to WDW.<BR>We have are in our 30's and have no kids and there is absolutely no joy in going. I never went to WDW as a kid (never begged my parents to go) and my in-laws thought I would love it. I thought Epcot was a laugh (bad one)and the parks were generic and artificial.<BR>I also don't think it's fair that Disney is a man-made money making oasis that steals wild animals and trains them to satisfy people that don't venture out into nature. <BR>The food is horrendous, the hotels and service are mediocre and Epcot is for people that think that's the way the rest of the world looks.<BR>My in-laws think that eating some couscous at Epcot's Morocco is authentic. <BR>Sadly, they have never travelled outside the U.S. but I don't think they realize that it costs more at Disney then venturing out and travelling abroad. <BR>Disney is a cult with bad food, aging parks and cheesy hotels and atmosphere.<BR>By the way, every time we go we get major discounts off of everything plus free park tickets because we know someone who works for corporate. <BR>Maybe that's why my cheap in-laws want to go every year? <BR>When we have kids I will not bring up Disney unless they really want to go.

A time, anytime, is what you make of it...<BR><BR>Magic is in hearts,,, place simply help procure magic...

I'm sure Amanda is a nice person, but those words sure look to me like they're coming from a cult member. Again...every other word is "magic." I'm glad I started this and relieved to know I'm not alone.

deb, you are exactly the type of person I was referring to. First of all, what I said was true, and if anyone cares to read about it, the thread is right there on the disboards. More than one person criticized this mother, not to mention those who criticized other posters who suggested she sue. In fact some more might have criticized but the thread was locked, meaning no more posts are allowed on it. This is what happens to most posts that hint of negativity towards the mouse.<BR><BR> See, you're getting all defensive. "If you don't like Disney, don't go (I do like Disney, but I know they make mistakes and this was a biggie), "Don't read posts you don't like" Huh? OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one and assume you're either very young or just uneducated.<BR><BR>Also I forgot to mention the disnuts who suggested that the mom not submit her medical bills to Disney, but rather that she should have her own insurance cover them! Thanks for reminding me, deb.<BR><BR>True, some posters, like me, suggested this mom sue Disney and prompt her to contact first a good attorney and then Disney, as clearly Disney is not about to contact her, but there were more than a few who defended Disney, saying a suit wouldn't hold up ("How do we know it was Disney's fault and not the kids") I believe that is a direct quote deb.<BR><BR>In closing, I suggest YOU reread the post, and perhaps if you are not so blinded by rodent love, some of those responses will make you question the sanity of SOME (notice I said some, of those posters. I know I sure got the creeps when I read them.<BR><BR>Oh, and thank you for illustrating Paul's point about some peoples cult mentality. You made the point quite effectively.<BR>

Hey Candy-Did you know that those sports figures who utter the words, "I want to go to Disney World," after winning major events are paid something like $100,000 to say that by Disney?

Don't take Paul's word for it. If anyone wants a really good laugh, as well as a truly mind - blowing experience, wander on over to disboards.com. You will feel like you entered another dimension. A dimension where grown men and women agree that Disney is the most "magical" place on earth, will sprinkle pixie dust on you for luck, and when someone complains, will chastise them by saying things like "So what if it's crowded and hot and the lines are long, what about the magic? You should just be glad that you're at Disney" I kid you not. These and other gems are all over that board.<BR><BR>If you have any doubts at all that Disney is a cult, a few minutes reading those boards will erase them.

A co-worker of mine and her husband actually bought a time share in Orlando so they could go every year. She just loves Disney, her hubby could take it or leave it, but he goes along to keep his wife happy. What they spend they could go on a really nice vacation...

To Bystander. Let's recap: "Imagine if all news media were owned by companies trying to push agendas."<BR><BR>Oh, man. THEY ARE! Everyone pushes an agenda, whether it's to sell advertising or promote Clinton-hating or Bush-hating. <BR><BR>If you think it's otherwise, then you're naive. Or are you one of those who believes that the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal are only interested in "fair" treatments of the news? <BR><BR>The best thing we have going for us that there are a lot of different sources, and so we end up with balance. But if you (or the PhD "observer") are expecting media with no biases, you better move to another planet.

TO: Here we go: If unpleasant posts were added to the thread at the Disboard that we are discussing, then my mistake. It was as I described it the last time I checked. I am at a loss to understand why people who are so obviously hostile to Disney make it their mission to disrespect others who do like it. Why? Aren't there other things to do? I have noticed that the very people who do the most complaining often start their posts with a comment on how they actually like it there. They then proceed to trash it and anyone who goes there. My comments have nothing to do with blind Disney love, just respect for others choices. People should not mock other people's vacation spots, or try to make them feel stupid for going there. I promise not to laugh at or belittle anyone who goes anywhere. Whether it be a cruise, or a jungle trek, if someone else enjoys it, what sense would it make for me to scour message boards to post sarcastic replies to their honest questions? To me this issue is much bigger than Disney, it is a general attitude that is given by people who feel the need to spend their time trashing it.

I'm sorry to say this, but Disney represents the typical "lowest common denominator" mentality that unfortunately pervades this country. Ironic that I am posting this, because I'm sitting here watching "fantasia" with my little boy. But the animation and the creepy cult like mentality are totally different

Paul, shame on you for slandering an American institution and for provoking these nice people. I know you loved the Cinderella breakfast. <BR><BR>Your friend Stacie in OP.

Well, I can't cut and paste my diploma here, so you'll just have to take my word for it that I have the degree and teach journalism. You ("loving it") take my words WAY too simplistically, for one thing, and clearly have imposed your own idea of what "freedom of the press" means -- or perhaps that of the Freedom Forum, which believes it means "freedom from regulation," period.<BR><BR>The 1st Amendment was added to the Constitution to protect the press, as "watchdog" over government for the people, and also to protect expression of individual beliefs, opinions, etc. from government limitation. The idea is that a democracy depends on a fully informed citizenry that can govern itself best. The problem comes when free speech is only "free" for the people who own the presses, and information is controlled by the rich and powerful -- especially when the lines between government and media-ownership become completely blurred. <BR><BR>Disney owns ABC. GE owns NBC. CBS is Westinghouse. Time-Warner owns just about everything else except what Fox owns. Each of these companies also have huge holdings in all our sources of information. So long as they are all competing for the same advertisers, there is no "free market" in information. They will only present what they think they can sell, not what we need to know to participate in democracy.<BR><BR>No, I don't believe any part of our media system is free from bias. I do believe that most have abandoned the effort to try in favor of the effort to "appear" to be objective without offending any money sources. <BR><BR>As for Disney? There's a difference between taking your 9-year old to ride Magic Mountain and thinking that Epcot is the same as Europe or having your wedding with Mickey and Minnie because that's such a great basis for a relationship. Once or twice is fine. Believing that the Mouse is the source of all that's good and wonderful is downright dangerous.

snore.

I would say the Disney haters seem to be a "cult" all of their own!! Who cares what others do with their own money? Get a life!

DO YOU PEOPLE HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT EVERY ONE BUT YOU THINKS THAT EPCOT IS REAL? REALLY? GROW UP!

We know quite a few people that save their money for YEARS so they can go to Disney. That same money for a week's stay at Disney could have gotten a family of four who we know a two week luxury cruise to the Caribbean. <BR>Instead they got to experience being treated like cattle and eating the lousiest food on the planet.<BR>I don't care who visits there - better you than me. Also, it keeps the prime vacation spots hassle free and less congested.

I thought my usually cynical husband was crazy when he told me that he had been to Disney 9 times since he was a child. Last year he finally convinced me to go, and I was shocked how much fun it was. I felt the years strip away. We also had descent to great food (we at Gloria Estafan's restaurant twice).<BR><BR>We have been to Paris, London, Rome, the French Riviera, Elba, Corsica, the Caribbean and more and LOVE those places, but I found I could also love the ALL AMERICAN Vacation that Disney provides.<BR><BR>Is it a cult? Who knows. All I know is that it stimulated my imagination and awoke the sense of fun and magic that had been asleep for far too long. When I go to Disney, I ask - what are the possibilities in life, if all this can happen?!!!! Corny, but a great way to see life!

I like the people who state that those who enjoy Epcot are lowest-common denominator because they go there and think that they've experienced the actual cultures of other countries, and then turn around and say that you'd be better off to go on a Caribbean cruise.<BR><BR>Umm, does anybody who goes on a Caribbean cruise that stops in at "exotic ports of call" really think they're experiencing the "real" Barbados/Antigua/Curacao/whatever? Okay, then go to Club Med in Jamaica and tell us you've experienced "the real Jamaica."<BR><BR>I enjoy going to Disney World just because it's so unreal, and because I think it's entertaining, and most of all because it's the best place I've ever seen to go people-watching.<BR><BR>I say go wherever you enjoy on vacation, whether it's WDW or a Caribbean cruise or hiking in the Andes. (I myself think that people who pay good money to go sleep in a bag on the ground in the woods with no running water or electricity are kind of nuts, but wouldn't go so far as to say that campers are a cult).<BR>

The otherwise pompous and boring PhD made one reference I relate to. I just DON'T GET weddings at WDW or any theme park. That comes pretty close to treating Disney like a religion, to me. Father Mickey presiding, with images of St. Goofy, St. Daisy, Sr. Minnie, etc. etc. etc. Marriage in Fantasyland might only be "happily ever after" until you leave the park, sweeties.

Steve:<BR><BR>You and I are alike when it comes to vacation plans. I am planning for a 3/03 cruise to the Caribbean, either a 7 or 10 day cruise on Princess or Royal Caribbean. To be spoiled to a fault for a week or 10 days is my idea of heaven.

I think it is really sad that someone felt the "years strip away" at WDW. She was most likely feeling her soul being sucked away. The debate between low & high culture reigns on!

Getting married (or honeymooning) at WDW is one of the bleakest and most depressing things i have ever heard of. What is wrong with people ?

Travel is like food, books, movies. Do you really want steak every night (if you are a carnivore:-) ? I love Schindlers List, but I don't want a steady diet of that film type. And I don't want steak every night . And I don't want to read tthe Romantic poets every time I pick up a book. I like to travel to a wide variety of places & experience a wide variety of adventures - that would include Paris, NYC, Disney World, scuba in Fiji, hiking national parks, etc. Everyone travels for a variety of reasons - relaxation, escape, culture. adventure, etc. And why should anyone care if people like going to Disney ?? Personally, I don't understand why some people only take cruises every vacation (and then do nothing but shop - how much duty free Chanel & Waterford Crystal can you look at??!!) or stay at an All-Inclusive resort every place they go & never leave the hotel?? But its none of my business. If it makes them happy, its great!

Do you all feel that people who rave about Hawaii are cultlike? or how about the ones who go on cruise after cruise? Or how about the ones who go to the Caribbean year after year? Or how about the ones who go to Europe year after year? Damn people..get a grip..like a couple of other posters have said..don't read the posts if you're not interested!

To xxx,<BR>The difference in visiting the same country or island every year is that you experience various people and activities each time. At Disney it's the same parade, same food, same fake country, same Disney schpeel.<BR>My point of taking the money and going on a luxury cruise was because our friends saved for two years to stay at the Grand Floridian with their kids and enjoy the "luxury accomodations" while the kids hit the parks. Guess what - they all said never again - not worth it. <BR>I do travel extensively and do not put down those who may enjoy this type of thing. It's just a little fanatical that people save up for years and others continue to visit every year like it's the Taj Mahal

Well I love Disney! My husband is taking me there in 20 days for my 8th trip to celebrate my birthday. If you don't like disney then don't go! I don't understand why a prevous poster starts bashing disney how she hates it but then starts spouting off how she was there last month? Dah, if you think it sucks DON'T GO! What is so hard to understand about that. I hate to camp but I have yet to start a post about how stupid camping is I simply DON'T CAMP. Get it?

Viv's right. Leave WDW to the poor souls who are hypnotized into the cult. <BR>It reminds me of the Moonies cult and Disneyites just empty their pockets to the "Big D" and walk around with those same scary grins and dilated pupils.<BR>I hope they expand to be able and accomodate future recruits into their realm.

I think that the Disboards is a cult! I challenge anyone to head over there and post one thing that isn't a glowing review of everything Disney. I posted a very legitimate concern that Disney is letting their parks fill to over-capacity to make up for their post September 11 financial losses. I got so bashed and hammered that I refuse to visit those boards ever again.

A WHOLE lot of posts got cut off this thread overnight. Is Fodors a cult?

What ARE you talking about? These posts are time-stamped consecutively right up to now. Must be some other thread you have in mind.<BR><BR>But then, Fodors could be sort of a cult for some of us :-)

Viv, I think I'm the poster you were referring to who went last month. Read my post again - carefully, I did not say I hated Disney. I've always liked Disney, I said that on my last trip it was more crowded then ever, the hours were shorter and the food catered to the declining level of the American diet (yes I'm American, but the overwhelmingly overweight crowd at WDW, some of who are so big they can't even walk, with a churro in one hand and a 24 ounce coke in the other, is a sad commentary on our eating habits). The experience was not as enjoyable as previous visits, and I saw a lot of room for improvement. Unless Disney does something to lessen crowds and shorten lines, I will not go back. <BR><BR>This is in contrast to the Disney nuts, who apparently don't care how bad the crowds are, as long as they can experience the "magic" of Disney. Sorry, but the magic eluded me this time. The only lame response from these folks is "If you don't like it don't go". Very thoughtful and constructive.

Jim, How true! I also posted a brief trip report on the disboards and commented that, while we had a good time, we were not able to see the MK because it was too packed and the lines were too long. I also commented that I found the food lousy. I thought Disney could have lengthened the park hours to help spread out the crowds.<BR><BR>The responses I got were sadly typical of the disboards. People were hammering me too, in defense of the mouse. It was almost a surreal experience. You cannot make the slightest negative remark over there without being attacked by the posters wearing mouse ears!

Dear Sad,<BR><BR>I have to comment on your comment about my "soul being sucked away" when I said I felt the "years strip away." I know you were being facetious; however, I just have to say that I have spent 16 years working very hard at my job and being a "grown up" and when I went to Disney, I remembered being a kid with no worries and my imagination on fire.<BR><BR>So my question is what is the real "cult" - the jobs we are all tied to and put every waking hour into or Disney, where our imaginations run free?

We've got a definite Disney cult member situation here with jb. I think it requires an intervention, she thinks her imagination is running free and that everyone is working at their jobs because they want to, not because they HAVE to! Oh, and she actually thinks fodorites put every waking hour into their jobs. Clearly her ability to reason has already been affected. We may already be too late!

Yes, I agree with those anti-disney culties,those who say to leave WDW to those poor suckers who waddle through there with their churros and super-sized coke. They only "think" they are having a good time. We, the higher level beings that we are know better. While we tsk-tsk them, they are standing in line with their wallets open, handing money to their screaming kids to pay homage to a rodent! What saps! I say we start our own board just to talk about them in peace- none of this foolish dissent we keep hearing from them. We will feel so superior while we brag about our "real" vacations, you know, the ones that really count. Let me know who's on board!!

topping, because this whole argument is too funny to let it slip to the bottom<BR><BR>I just like the headline

I don't care if you want to go to WDW every year, or every month for that matter, let everyone do want they want. Just don't tell me that when I say it's crowded, or the lines are too long that it's OK, and it's still a great place to be, because even though you have to wait an hour for a 5 minute ride, it's still the most "magical" place on earth. Are those Disney culties smoking something that I don't know about? How anyone can have a "magical" time with some smelly guys armpit in their face when they are standing in line for a delectable choice of fried, processed food is beyond me. OK now culties, tell me all about the great healthy food at Disney, the salads full of iceberg lettuce, pink mushy tomatoes or a wrap sandwich filled with processed chicken. I'd rather starve. <BR><BR>Oh yeah, Disney has great rides and engineering, but they really ought to do something about crowd control and lousy food. Next time I go I'll be sure I take a "magic" pill, so I can get through the day in a state of oblivion.

My imagination runs free when I walk through a really big department store,jb:)

Its pretty obvious that unless you are a fan of Disney and/or theme parks you are probably not going to enjoy Disney World. I have been several times & enjoyed it, but cannot imagine going for every vacation any more than I could eat fresh tuna every night (well maybe I COULD do that...). I have never waited for a ride at Disney more than 15 minutes (and that was the exception, not the norm). We get there early, see what we want to see & then go do something else. I will no longer wait more than 15 minutes to see anything (well, except for Sting, maybe). That said I agree Disney has become overcrowded - there is no "off-season" anymore & the thought of the MK on a Saturday makes me run for the rum bottle. And yes, a great deal of the food stinks & is over-priced. Come to think of it, thats a problem everywhere... I have noticed at theme parks, as well as historic homes & castles, Museums, etc. throughout this country & Europe that a LOT of people seem to think standing in line is just part of their vacation. I did stand in line for 30 minutes to see the crown jewels in London & in D.C, to see the Hope Diamond. And several hundred of my closest friends were with me... and I felt both of those attractions were over-rated.

I vote yes for cult. I find their influence in the culture singularly degrading, oppressive, humiliating and depressing. I cannot believe people do not feel violated and break into cold sweats at the openly fascistic methods of organization and control they employ and advocate as a model for other businesses (the last 2 places I worked enthusiastically gave us a deluge of Disney training and inspirational videos). I don't want to live in a society where it is considered normal to totally obliterate whatever individual personality one may have left to begin with, to submit so fully to the will of the Corporation to the point that even the words that are permitted to come out of your mouth in your official capacity are meticulously prescribed and circumscribed to the blandest and most insignificant banalities. When this increasingly becomes an acceptable mindset in most of the supposed adults and almost all of the media that surrounds you, it's rather difficult to just ignore it and blithely say, "to each his own", which is doubtless the kind of rigorous philosophy that will be propounded in the new Disney-inspired schools, which will no doubt excel in producing more efficiently that class of student whose dearth is so lamented by our nation's leaders, those who have been properly trained to be employed productively by corporations.