God Bless America
 

Finally, Freedon Day! Bill and Hill are gone and "W" takes office and begins to show us once again what a decent caring goverment can do. I was pleased to hear on the news that one of "w"'s first acts was to paint and clean up the White House. Hope they remember to take an inventory, because I bet Billy, snuck a few momentos out in his carry-on.

I'm a janitor at the whitehouse and you wouldn't believe all the cigars I found under Bill's desk. And most of them had never been smoked, I just can't figure it out.

Yes, God Bless America. Hopefully our Democracy is strong enough to survive this goofball that a minority of voters chose for the the White House.

A decent caring government? We know we won't be seeing that for at least four years.

Quite unlike the "indecent" caring government regime we just endured?

More like God watch over America or God protect America...from these right wing nuts who overthrew the government of this nation. The citizens and their votes don't count. Just "might makes right". Well Adolph Hitler said God was on his side too just as Ashcroft, Bush and Baker claim now.

HMMMM!!!??? From a non-American - I guess that this recent election must make you all wonder about who should have won - GW or AG. Looking at it from an international perspective, it was a bit of a disaster - don't you agree? Should the popular vote have won or the other vote (what do you call them?)I just have to laugh at bruce@cleanup - however, should we ever make this much fun of a world leader???? Despite his/her mistakes? Maybe so and maybe (probably) he earned it! It worries me though that GW does not even know who the Prime Minister of Canada is - how will he fair internationally???? What do you all think.

Throughout his campaign George W Bush that the "W" stood for "win", although when you hear him speak it is not the first "W" that springs to mind. It is typical of "Dubya" that he won the <BR> election by losing it, since his entire career has been built upon a succession of failures from which he emerged better placed on each occasion. <BR> He likes to make out that he had a typical American background, no different to any other wholesome American family in which Dad was head of the CIA. No doubt when they were kids George and his brother could be heard playing in the backyard. "Come on Jeb, let's play destabilising third world governments." <BR> <BR> After an expensive education which resulted only in mediocre grades, George Jr took the traditional route for future American politicians and jumped the queue for the National Guard to avoid going to Vietnam. It's a shame for the US that he never took part in the war, because after the North Vietnamese had overrun Saigon and occupied the entire country, Bush could have declared America the winner. <BR> <BR>In 1981 Dad became vice-president, which seemed to coincide with the time that George Jr found it easier to get backers for his oil company. Despite his connections his various oil businesses <BR>all foundered, and though his investors lost millions, George somehow always managed to emerge with his personal wealth increased. Who needs oil when Dad can oil the wheels for you? <BR> <BR> Even more murky are his financial dealings with the Texas Rangers baseball team. Bush put together a consortium of millionaires to buy the club, and got himself made managing director even though he put up less than 1% of the money himself. <BR> <BR>A brand new stadium was built with public money. This greatly increased the value of the club but of course none of this cash was returned to the taxpayer when it was sold again. George pocketed a cool $14.9m and became the man who put the <BR>"base" into baseball. <BR> <BR>The association with the Texas Rangers made him a local celebrity and against expectations he was elected governor. He worked very hard in Texas, signing more death warrants than all the other state governors put together. He broke a few other records as well; Texas now has the worst water pollution and air quality of any of the major states. <BR> <BR> Bush consistently took the side of big business against the interests of ordinary Texans and what he did for the Lone Star state, he now hopes to do <BR>for all 50. It couldn't be better for the <BR> multinationals if Ronald McDonald himself had got the presidency. In fact Ronald probably would have got the Republican nomination if it wasn't so obvious that he wore make-up. <BR> <BR>The only hope is that at today's inauguration, George will trip over his words again and fail to be sworn in as president. Because some of his recent statements suggest he might not be quite up to the world's top job. <BR> <BR>Postscript: He did trip over his words, but unfortunately, we are stuck with him. <BR>

Well, look at the positive side. Since he'll have the presidential limo at his side, that'll be one less drunk on the road.

I love reading the postings from the sniveling whining liberal democRATS. I wonder if they will ever realize that they lost and get on with their pathetic lives. Bubba and his lackey Algore are history despite Algore trying to steal the election. <BR> <BR>Thank god that we can now look forward for the next 8 years to some dignity and decency in the White House. <BR> <BR>For your information, they did complete the recount in Dade County ( Miami ) and George W. Bush picked up 6 additional votes. So much for Algore winning Florida.

I was pleased with Bush's inaugeral address, pleased that it was short and to the point rather than being full of empty and pompous rhetoric, pleased that he obviously was trying to be conciliatory and non-partisan. Now if only some of you who have spoken on this thread would try to be a little more conciliatory and non-partisan, perhaps you'll find that things will not be as bad as you fear. I think Bush will accomplish some good things, especially in education and (we all hope) the bad economy that he has been handed. <BR> <BR>Jim (above) mentioned that a minority of voters chose George for the White House. Just like Clinton, who got 43% of the vote in 1992 (George W. got 48%) and a similar percentage in 1996 (I don't remember exactly, but it was less than 50%). <BR> <BR>They've been counting the votes in Florida, but we haven't heard much about the results. I found a report (on line) from a newspaper in Miami-Dade County that said they had finished counting and Bush came out ahead, NOT Gore as many people had assumed. Maybe we haven't been hearing anything about this recount because the results aren't what the Dems and protestors expected. Maybe it's simply because they haven't finished counting. Can anyone in Florida who is reading the local papers inform us of any results? <BR> <BR>God Bless America!

I'm in FL, Diane. What earthly good is this recount doing but keeping the bitterness alive? It will never prove a thing because there is no standard for what "really" constitutes a vote unless they now set one...how many corners, pin pricks what have you, and that new standard has no meaning set after an election has taken place. If one had been in place beforehand, then perhaps, but not now. And if a standard is set here, should every county in the country that used the punch card system also go back and recount using the new standard? It's absurd. <BR> <BR>The fact that Bush "won" Miami-Dade is, under these circumstances, meaningless. Miami-Dade is heavily Democratic...that shouldn't have been. There must have been more chad anomalies there that ended up in Bush's corner and could just as easily have ended up in Gore's. <BR> <BR>I live in heavily Republican Hillsborough County where the newspaper conducted a count of the ballots which had no registered vote with the following results: Total Additional for Bush 879, for Gore 999. Of these, Dimples: 660 Bush, 757 Gore. Pin pricks: 91 Bush, 119 Gore. One corner detached: 11 Bush, 16 Gore. 2 Corners detached: 3 Bush, 4 Gore. 3 Corners detached: 67 Bush, 61 Gore. Punched clearly: 47 Bush, 42 Gore. No mark what-so-ever: 3,655. And even the "punched clearly" category...they weren't punched before or the machine would have picked them up...these are votes with no chads now! These cards have been handled so many times, been sent through the counters how many more times and what may have been a one corner chad before, could in the rehandling become a "clear vote". It's meaningless. <BR> <BR>When they were packing up the ballots to be sent to Tallahassee, news coverage showed one county worker taking a stack of ballots in her hands, banging the edges down on the tables to align them neatly, then taking her thumb and thumbing through the stack, bending the ballots way back as she did, as you would a deck of cards you were shuffling!! These ballots have been corrupted, whether intentionally or not (that worker was in Democratic Miami-Dade, by the way, lest anyone jump on that) with the end result being that we'll NEVER know who actually won FL. <BR> <BR>We do know however, Bush is now EVERYONE'S President, whether you voted for him or not. Let's give it a rest and hope he has the wherewithall to handle the mounting problems before him!! His failures will negatively impact everyone of us, so for those eagerly anticipating his first mis-steps....its time rethink your positions.

Have you noticed that George Bush & W picked VP's that nobody would want for Pres.--their way of avoiding Tecumseh's curse, maybe?

Olive Oyl--Thank you for the information. I agree with everything you said with one exception, but now I'm thinking that I may have been naive. I thought that if it could be shown that Bush really DID win Florida (which I believe), all the protesters wouldn't feel so bad. I don't blame them for being frustrated and angry that their man didn't win, especially with the demagogues and victim-gatherers down there persuading the African-Americans that their votes weren't counted. <BR> <BR>Thanks for the information on Hillsborough County. I'm glad to see they're breaking down the count, how many "votes" of each kind. So Gore "won" if you count dimpled and pin-pricked ballots, but if you don't count those non-votes--and you shouldn't--then Bush picked up MORE votes in Hillsborough. As I said, I've decided I have been naive. The losers WANT to believe they've been cheated. I also believe the ballots have been hopelessly corrupted by now

Reelect Gore in 2004

Re-elect Gore? Impossible to do, since he lost the last election. By the way, have all you Gorons noticed that with all the recounts that continue to be done in Florida, that Bush IS STILL AHEAD??????? Your boy lost Florida, fair & square. All your (worthless) points are moot.

I'm not sure what the criteria is, but I believe i just may be a snivelling, whining, liberal Democrat living a pathetic life, as referred by an above poster. If the criteria is having voted for Al Gore, then Bingo!! here I am. <BR> <BR>My man didn't win, I sure wish he would have won, but I intend to give Mr. Bush the benefit of the doubt, and he and his family are in my prayers.

I have to disagree w/Olive and with our slightly overwrought Mr.xxx. I recall th that in late December, an Orlando Sentinel article said that Bush was ahead by 1 vote if you did not count dimples. I think that's where Olive may be getting her numbers. My understanding is that the Miami-Dade totals have not yet been confirmed. Check out the miamiherald.com for first-hand info and not spin. What's at issue now are 437 ballots cast by felons. But I don't know if anyone has detailed how that stacks up to the 20,000 undervotes the machines didn't pick up. It still seems that is a statistically high number in this particular election. If they don't count, then it was faulty voting that determined the winner. Try to couch that in 14th Amendment equal protectin argument, if you can. The only way a chad can partially detach is with a poke. <BR> <BR>My point is that Bush had much to lose by going through a fair recount. Had he done so and prevailed, as some of you suggest he is now doing, he would earned the respect of the 52% of the country that did not vote for him. The actual date to confirm electors is January 6. We had the time, and we are fair.

No matter the endless spin of the Gore supporters, Bush is ahead in ALL the Florida recounts, like it or not. Read it and weep. Now go cry in your Wheaties. <BR> <BR>What a glorious day that we now have a President that will restore honor & dignity to the White House. After 8 years of the filth & scandal, it is a refreshing breath of fresh air!

Whatever. The results aren't in. We'll hear about it soon enough, and not from you.

I hope Dubya fumigated the White House after the white trash filth that inhabited the Oval Office for 8 years.

Don't ya'll just love the piety of these Republican fellas? Ya'll don't really wanna get into comparing sex scandals, do ya? How about J Edgar Hoover for starters. Yuck. <BR> <BR>W's gonna have to EARN his respect the old-fashioned way. By being a decent human being.

Where has Uncle Sam been the past eight years? Probably hiding out in his vault counting his loot and defying Government from taking it. Now, he is probably hoping that Dubya will somehow manage to get tax relief to people of his ilk so that they can then show that they're caring and decent by trickling it down to the masses. Very reminiscent of Marie Antoinette's "Let them eat cake!"

Can someone please explain to me why this travel forum needs to be used as a political soapbox? Scrolling down these postings only serves to remind me of just how polarized we are in our political ideologies. I don't decry the right to have these types of back and forth, but why here??!!

Media, Please, re-read the facts behind my figures. They are for Hillsborough County ONLY. Each county is being counted separately and results reported for each. Orlando Sentinel reported figures for ONE COUNTY only as well, not for the state, believe it or not. You saw what you wanted to see, and had you read it more carefully, you'd have realized you were not reading figures for the state of FL, as much as you'd have liked that to be the case! Figures given previously by Diane were for Miami-Dade ONLY and they are accurate. The recount of the entire state has not yet been completed. Certain newspapers took it upon themselves to count their counties. I have no idea if recounts are being conducted in every county at this point. <BR> <BR>Each county involved in the current count is setting it's own standards and charging their papers what they see fit. Hillsborough charged the Tampa Tribune $58.12/hr, Broward charged thier paper $300/hr. In Hillsborough, there is no category that shows whether there was any pattern to voting, ie, if there is a dimple it's counted as a dimple on that ballot, and no indication as to whether or not the entire ballot was dimpled...or any other portion of it was. <BR> <BR>There was a deadline for the FL electoral votes to be in place...Dec 16 or 18, forget now which. It was not Jan 6. State law, Chick-a-dee, state law...that's why the legislature was set to act--it was that or face the prospect of losing our vote altogether! <BR> <BR>Hillsborough County alone had 5,533 under votes, 1/4 of the state total. Even after the media hand recount, we still have 3,655 ballots with virtually no vote what-so-ever, no dimple, pin prick, or any corner of any chad detached, and we are one county out of 57. Face it, plenty of people went into the election disliking every choice......so none was made. Lets hone those observations skills, Media, before you report!

Ah yes, the dignity of middle-aged alcohol abuse, the honor of multiple arrests, the glory of illegal cocaine use! The spectacularly less-than-mediocre academic performance and business career, and the short yet well-financed political career! Now that's the glory of American politics! Any incompetent underachiever can buy his way into the office of the Presidency, it all depends on who you know and how many government "servants" your father appointed. <BR> <BR>Well, mighty Rome was once a republic too, then came the emperors. Deja vu. <BR>

Olive. My point exactly. The results aren't in for the whole state. What about the Lake County overvotes with clear writer intent, though? How does that stack up to your analysis? <BR> <BR>It was really way way to close to call.

Oh yes, the deadline argument. Back to the talking points. <BR> <BR>Of course, Florida state law sets it at one of the two, in order not to have its electoral slate contested. But there is another, higher Constitutional authority: the U.S. Constitution. And our country used that procedure as recently as 1960, with no civil unrest and with an orderly transition of power. <BR> <BR>A fair count would have eliminated the cloud of doubt which will forever attach to this administration. The U.S. Constitution would have pre-empted state law, had the 5 Supreme Court Justices (and supposed constructionists) not pre-empted the Constitution. And as states' rights advocates, the 5 didn't do the Florida Supreme Court any favors either, did they? Are you really suggesting that Jeb and Katherine were impartial? I think it's you that's only seeing what YOU want to see. <BR> <BR>Don't just take my word for it. There is sufficient outrage within the legal community, based on the fatuous Supreme's opinion totally devoid of any legal precedent, and remarkably hypocritical in its purported 14th Amendment review. <BR> <BR>The results of the impartial count will eventually come out. Florida's electors should have gone to the popular vote winner in Florida. And our legal system should have upheld the most fundamental right of a democracy. The fact that the Rhenquist 5 did not and cared not has undermined our entire system of justice. <BR> <BR>

Like all political leaders, George Bush will be judged by his actions in office. Fine sentiments such as those on offer at his weekend inauguration as 43rd US president, like those expressed in the campaign, are mere words. <BR> <BR>If it is any guide, his progress so far during his transition to the Oval office has been littered with misjudgments. In tacit recognition perhaps of his own inexperience, he has surrounded himself with old hands who date back to the Ford administration. But these appointments do not sit well with his Philadelphia commitment to a "new era". He has recruited heavy-hitting soloists like Colin Powell at the state department and Donald Rumsfeld at defence. But these two powerful personalities may prove hard to control and will test his unquantified leadership skills. <BR> <BR>The political complexion of the Bush cabinet also suggests a lack of understanding, or else a deliberate decision to ignore what happened last November. Mr Bush has no clear popular mandate; the very legitimacy of his victory remains in question. Yet in selecting a largely rightwing team including the likes of John Ashcroft as attorney general, he has tilted away, sharply and unwisely, from the centre ground where most Americans live. So much for those other fine words about "compassionate conservatism", "healing the nation", and "bipartisanship". More worrying is the thought that he may actually be unaware of the contradiction. Perhaps he simply did what that savvy old hawk and new White House godfather, Vice-President Dick Cheney, told him to - and then took a break for his favourite video game. <BR> <BR> <BR>

I'm 38 and I don't think there's been a good president in my lifetime: Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton -- all bad. Hope springs eternal, right? <BR> <BR>My vote for Bush was mostly to be anti-Gore. Favorite part of the inaugeration was the look on Cheney's face as he was sworn in -- pure radiance. <BR>

Media, <BR> <BR>On 1/21 you wrote: "I have to disagree w/Olive and with our slightly overwrought Mr.xxx. I recall th that in late December, an Orlando Sentinel article said that Bush was ahead by 1 vote if you did not count dimples. I think that's where Olive may be getting her numbers". <BR> <BR>My reply to your post was only to point out that was NOT where I was getting my numbers. My numbers came from the Tampa Tribune article publishing the results of the recount for Hillsborough County, a recount paid for and conducted by them. I live in Tampa. I was reporting our paper's results. I was replying initially to Diane who asked: "Can anyone in Florida who is reading the local papers inform us of any results?" <BR> <BR>So...what about Lake County and the Orlando Sentinel? I'm not addressing that recount...and they weren't addressing ours. I haven't seen their figures, only heard what everyone else has. What's your point? <BR> <BR>Constitution? Supreme Ct? Katharine Harris? Where did you read anything even remotely referring to any of that in my note? I wrote about the recount figures for our county and the handling of the ballots generally. That's it with the exception of addressing your mis-information on the date set by our state for the electors. The rest is yours and I'm not getting into that debate on this board! <BR> <BR>It's over. Give it a rest! There isn't anything more I can say that hasn't been said ad nauseum, or you either! Each side must know they aren't going to change even one mind of those standing on the other side of the fence.

Saw a bumper sticker the other day that was awesome! Something to the effect of when religion and politiics got mixed, people were burned at the stake! <BR> <BR>Looks like the McCarthy era will be back in the guise of the so-called christian coalition.

Every last one of you is a complete jackass. God is dead. Politicians are lying jerks. And you people are playing into them like they have all the answers. Can't you people come up with someone or something better to look up to? <BR>

I've heard of these right-wing zealots that designed the system under which Bush won - their names are Jefferson, Madison, etc.

Why doesn't the US switch over to electronic voting with PIN numbers, with real-time summaries of vote totals by county (to be compared with historical data). This would offer several advantages over the 2000 process, of which Flordia, of course, is the most visible example - ease of voting, a means to confirm that one's vote is counted, and readily available comparisons with prior voting trends to pinpoint possibly suspicious results. I don't suggest my idea is without flaws, but my underlying thoughts are that the US is capable of developing a new, standard system (better than the myraid approaches we now witness), and the belief we will never settle the Florida debate. To the degree the outcome debate rages on, we'll fail to catch up with what the new Administration is doing. I see the Post says that abortion is first up on the agenda this morning. Saturday and Sunday, the new folks said it would be education. Now, abortion is a wonderful unifying issue to start off with on the 22nd. Why does Saturday's speech now feel a long way off? Is this going to be an enlightened administration? Or is it just the same old Repo BS from the 70's and 80's? I really am hoping W. breaks the mould - it's the best way to be successful in what will probably be only one term. Ciao

Hi, Olive. Nice to see you are back. <BR> <BR>As for me, I've decided that things really aren't that bad with W in the White House. We had an election with two truly dreadful candidates. Had Gore won, I'd have to listen to his voice EVERY SINGLE DAY. That's a lot to ask, even of a lifelong Democrat. <BR> <BR>So I've decided to look ahead. We have a split Senate with two really old, frail Republican senators. The Senate ought to beat back some of Bush's really dreadful proposals. Bush wants to give me a big tax cut and leave poor people and middle class people to struggle financially. OK. Whatever. <BR> <BR>But best of all, in four years, the Democrats get to field a new, fresh face while the Republicans are stuck with George trying to explain why the recession is all Bill's fault. That's not so bad. <BR> <BR>I do have some residual bitterness, though. I'm still a little ticked with the Nader voters. What were they thinking? They were supposed to be the "Green" party, committed to protecting the environment. They left Al high and dry, so now we're going to have drilling in wilderness areas and the polar cap, for God's sake. One of Bush's first executive orders was to roll back air quality regulations and animal waste disposal regulations. Yippee! More foul air and water for the kiddies! <BR> <BR>Anyway, I've enjoyed your posts. Take care.

NEWS: <BR>Clinton pardons over 100! <BR> <BR>Did you see that the Fodors Travel Talk Editors and web site masters were pardoned by Clinton? What an outrage! We forgive politicians because they are politicians, but don't mess with our travel talk.

There are so, so many boring comments on this site. Bashing both W. and Al - bashing Clinton - all the bums are terrible - the world is now going to hell - talk about Jesse and Strom dying - and how could Nader dare run, as though he lost it for Al. Ralph is an egomaniac - talk with anyone who has ever worked with him. Why wouldn't he run - he's in his 60's and running out of gas. Can someone please say something original - or hopeful. Or perhaps we ought to get back to travel. Maybe I'm just naive. But this stuff is just plain boring - old, old news. YAWN.

Wish I'd turned back.

<BR> <BR>Dear Uncle Sam: <BR> <BR>This is how I finally track you down? On a travel site? Where the hell are you? Mother is worried sick. YOUR SISTER BETTY-- REMEMBER HER? You ungrateful lazy piece of crap. Why I'm writing to you I have no idea since I despise the mere thought of your fat presence, but I thought I might persuade you to at least have the decency to CALL YOUR SISTER! When you took off last week after dinner without even finishing your apple cobbler, I knew something was up--in my whole life you haven't left the table without seconds of dessert. Then when I looked in my drawer and found fifty dollars and all my pot missing, I knew--I KNEW--you had "disappeared." AGAIN! You lousy bum. If my dad were still alive he'd kick yor sorry butt halfway to Knoxville, but Mother is too nice for that. "Uncle Sam has issues," she says. BULL! Uncle Sam is a good-for-nothing leech who won't even go down to Wal-Mart to get a decent job. Or maybe that would be setting your sights too high, you jerk. They probably wouldn't even let you pass out the carts to the customers. Anyway, Uncle Sam--or should I say UNCLE SLOB--give your sister a call because she's been crying for three days. And when you show up, you'd better have fifty bucks and a half-bag of weed, because if you don't I'll put ants under your sheets after you start snoring. <BR> <BR>Your EX-Nephew, Tony <BR> <BR>P.S. YOU SUCK