Eastern College Trip Thank You
 

Just wanted to thank so many of you who helped us "glue" a trip to so many colleges over Spring Break.

Taking a tip from one of the posters, we checked out a multi-legged flight instead of trying to land in New York and then driving our way north to the various colleges. We were able to fit in many more visits (a mixed blessing, to be sure!) for a cost that was only a few dollars more than a simple roundtrip flight and this one decision meant we never had to worry about parking or getting lost.

For one stretch we didn't even bother with a plane. Again, because of a poster's suggestion, we were able to get a greatly reduced Amtrak fare from New York to Providence and then from Providence to Boston because of our college search.

One of our goals on this trip was to make sure our daughter never used a taxi but only mass transportation. We felt it was important that she understand that if she insisted on going so far away, life and luggage were going to be a bit harder to handle. It was a great trip to try the AirTrain system from Newark to Manhattan, the New York subway, Boston "T" and commuter rails, and Phillie SEPTA and commuter systems.

Hotels we liked:

The Lenox in Boston--We got this at a good price, and it was delightful. Great location for what we were trying to accomplish.

The Hilton Inn at Penn--Biggest rooms of our trip at a terrific price. Meals were expensive there, though.

And once again, although the Hilton Towers in Manhattan is run down, rooms are a decent size for NYC and its location is still one of the best in the city. I just wish I could get a non-smoking room that actually smelled like one once!

Thank you, all of you, for being such a constant and reliable source of wisdom.

SO which colleges did she like?

The heck if I know. She's my "driven" kid, the overachiever who will make us all insane. Unlike my youngest who can walk on a campus, look around, take a deep breath and say, "I could be happy here for four years," this one has a philosophy of life that if the place isn't a trial, she wouldn't feel as though she's getting something out of it.

Almost makes one long to have a child who's looking for a "party" school.

LOL, amelia, you just described my two daughters!

They're far apart enough in age that the younger one didn't come along on the college tours. The older one agonized over everything and ended up simply going to the most selective school that accepted her, even though it wasn't a paricularly good fit, but my younger one had no trouble finding a school that she could easily get into and be happy at. What a refreshing change of pace!

Oh thank you, Anonymous. I really don't know if I could live through this again.

;-) She's only going to get crazier between now and this time next year!! Just sit back and let it wash over you; she won't make a bad decision, but she'll wear herself out.

So, which schools did you actually see? Any really bad experiences? Is she open to the idea of going to a place that she can get to by public transportation (i.e., a city or suburban school)?

Amelia - I empathize. We are one year ahead, having just sent in deposit for older of 2 kids to attend college next year. School is a perfect fit, even though not the most selective school that would accept him. Added bonus of that is that they gave him merit-based scholarship. He chose a southern school in part because of more relaxed atmosphere (and that it is far warmer than Boston).

Second kid (in 8th grade) is already agonizing over college choices - please spare me from the trauma and drama with her for 4 years.

This board was extremely useful in planning college visitation trips with kid #1 - and in evaluating cities in consideration for attendance. Hope we can do same for you.

On this trip, we did a lot of Ivies. She's spent eons on this. Imagine D-Day invasion.

We scouted West Coast a few years ago (not seriously, just gave her a feel)which she rejected and she really doesn't want to stay Midwest, even for Northwestern.

She's fine with an urban area. Suburban areas are not so wonderful. I secretly sympathize but have not told her so. I went to a gorgeous small, highly regarded liberal arts college in the MidWest and was depressed for four years. I would have given my eyeteeth for a crime wave.

Am trying to think of positives of this entire experience, and have enjoyed statement by youngest to friend in car,"I can now sniff out the campus bookstore at any college."

Oh well, it's good to know you all went through it and have survived.

Here's an unsolicited piece of advice: Just as kids should find a safety that they love, they should also love their "stretch" schools, and should not apply to an Ivy or other super-selective school "just to see if I'll get in." Because then if they do get in, they'll feel compelled to go, even if it's not such a good fit for their temperament. (Plus, these schools are very generous with their "need based" financial aid, which biases parents.)

Super-researchers who put a lot of pressure on themselves will find themselves on campus with 1500 other overachieving freshmen -- often not a healthy situation, IMHO. Older daughter has now directed her researchy and perfectionist traits into a nice career developing museum exhibits, but it took quite a while!

Some of my younger daughter's less-decisive friends have now received acceptances from several few dissimilar schools and are no closer to making a choice than they were a year ago -- but the deposits must be sent within the next 2 weeks. If your daughter prefers urban schools to suburban, then I urge you to seize on this tidbit of a preference and build on it!

Thanks, Anonymous. My husband and I share your viewpoint and we know we have to reinforce that message every day to her.

At the same time, I bet you also are agreeing with what so many of my friends tell me, "Give up. They're born this way--have to find the 'edge of the cliff' so they can live oh so satifactorily unhappily everyday!"

LUCKY you guys....

Here's Why:

JUST came back from my daily 7 mile walk...saw the postal truck drive away...saw our son (senior in H.S.) bolting toward our house...wondered why...got a clue...my eyes widened...actually bugged...adreneline(sp) kicked in and I started to sprint, with the remaining energy that I had, toward our house too...

His bolting beat my sprinting...he scooped up ALL of the mail and locked his darling self in the bathroom...EXHUSTED and peeved I was gasping "Open......the.....door...NOW!!!

He did not...I heard "YES!, YES! YES!!!!"

He finally came out. I was SO mad I was crossed eyed...the little 6'4 bugger gave me a kiss, hug and told me that I smelled a little "gamey" and then he left with 4 letters...

I called him on the cell before I logged on and found your post...all he said was that he was VERY happy and that I would be going to Freshman Parent Weekend in North Carolina, Virginia, Atlanta or Boston...

If you do not hear from me... just know thatI have been arrested for pinching the daylights out of my teen!

Mother of Wonderful Teen,
Oaktown Traveler

To Oaktown Traveler - you just reminded me that as of tomorrow it will again be my job to retrieve mail at the street mailbox - competitive scholarship award letter just received - son will no longer be at risk of arrest for stalking letter carrier. (Letter contained great news - with scholarship my husband and I can afford to retire at age 95 instead of age 96)

Gail:

As I say to my other MOB (mother of boy)
"friends":

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!

(My bubble bath and cocktail await me..)

Oaktown Traveler

For Oaktown and amelia and anyone else with a Mad Senior on their hands:

Can't recommend strongly enough that their student go to every Prospective Freshman weekend they can, no matter how many times they've seen the campus before. With an acceptance in hand and the reality that they might actual BE at the school in a few months, with some of the people they're meeting during that weekend, it's a very different deal. My son went into April with College B, S, and H ranked 1, 2, and 3. At the end of the weekend, he had become seriously disaffected with B, had an unsettling time at S, and was very happily surprised by H, which had been his last choice (just to see if he could get in).

Even if it seems a needless expense of time and money, it's not. Send them to all the prospective student events (unless you both agree that one or another college is out of the question).

I think the suggestion of a weekend at each school after admission is fabulous. The cost of a few weekends versus the pain of a bad four years is a great trade-off.

But what do we do about this Early Admission game? Some of the schools we've looked at accept almost 50% of the class by Dec 15. At two schools we were told by our student guides that unless the student is at the top of the "middle 50" admissions stats, the only way to get in is Early Admission. It's a great idea if one is positively in love with the school; it's just added pressure/enticement if the student isn't quite in love but thinks it will give him the added advantage in applying to a selective school.

I can see why there have been many articles lately by admissions people and guidance counselors speaking out against it--they feel these kids need more time, not less, to make decisions.

Again, I should have just drawn a circle on a map and said, "Choose any school in this one-hour from home radius." Then I could have spent two Spring Breaks with beach books instead of campus catalogues!

Any tips for parents who have a HS junior who has no idea where he wants to go to school or what he wants to major in. As a result, he does nothing about any of the information he receives or even about planning for school visitations. I'm ready to scream.

According to my friends, your story is a freqent MOB (Mother of Boy) tale. In fact, one kid I know that got into Harvard, Princeton, UPenn, and Stanford literally had to be forced into the car to visit them after he was admitted!

It's important to distinguish between Early Decision, which is a binding commitment, and Early Action, in which the college lets the student know early but the student is still free to apply to other schools.

Princeton, Columbia, and Brown still have Early Decision, but Harvard has Early Action. Yale has its own weird version of Early Action, which is a nonbinding decision but requires that the applicant not submit any early-type applications anywhere else. But then there's the Early Decision loophole -- you're not obliged to attend IF you don't get enough financial aid. Which you don't find out about until it's too late to apply elsewhere, IIRC. Yikes! Do you rally want to go someplace where your application is so middle-of-the-road that you have to pull in every little advantage?

Sorry to carry on so, I'm getting flashbacks to older dd's application process.

ampm - I believe you are speaking of a good percentage of high school juniors. My oldest daughter was exactly this way as a junior, and my younger daughter is following in her footsteps! This whole college thing is so stressful. The older daughter is just finishing up her freshman year at Texas A&M, which was not her 1st choice, and she still has not decided on a major. My HS junior seems to think she has plenty of time and as far as I can tell, has not researched a thing. Maybe she'll go to A&M like her sister, maybe not. At least we took her on college campus visits 2 years ago, so she at least has that. It all frightens me, but I figure that it will all work out in the end. Hopefully!

Anonymous--After twenty zillion info sessions, I could draw a flow chart on Early Action, Early Decision, Rolling Admission,etc. You just outlined the dilemma--Early Action is great as long as there's no limit on applying to other schools at the same time.

Additional thought: Your campus tour guide is a great source for insights into the student experience but might not be the best source for statistics and other reliable info about the admissions process.

Parents clearly find the college search and application process daunting, so it's no surprise that students are even more intimidated. For students who are too lazy, disorganized, afraid, whatever, to start the search process: Instead of focusing on paper and choices, just get out there and visit a local college. Doesn't matter if it's one the student might actually attend, get get him to experience the idea of visiting a college. Use bribes (concert tickets, etc., looser curfew -- "you're going to be on your own next year") if you must to get the process going. During the first visit, pay special attention to college campus life, rather than academics and classrooms. The idea is to get him to picture himself living as a college student. After the regular tour, visit dorms, cafeterias, athletic facilities, student newspaper, whatever is the equivalent of your guy's current interests. Unless he attends a really unusual high school and you're a gourmet cook-on-call, this is going to look good to him. Try to visit when students are on-campus, but NOT all stressed-out taking exams. Good luck!

Went through it last year with twin girls. One was easy, the other long and painful. The long and painful one decided to attend her second choice college as her first choice waitlisted her. Her second choice has been okay but she still wants the first choice and has re-applied there again this year with a few other's tossed in for good measure! I'm afraid nothing will ever match up to her ideal standards!! With any luck she'll end up where she want's to be next year as a sophmore and will be able to sit tight. This will be just in time for the other twin to start looking for a college to attend for her third and fourth year as that one had chosen a two year community college.
I don't think it will ever end!!!!
Three straight year's of looking at college's for two kids is way beyond anything I can handle!!
Sympathy to all!

Giggle...

And I "wonder" why my 6'4 son ran into the bathroom and locked the door...

We moms are soooo funny. We did "none" of this in our day to get into college, high school or kindergarten...

I now know that a good number of you went through this same process and more when we selected the right(let's list them):

THE RIGHT:

* Infant Exercise Class: GYMBOREE!!!
* Two Year Old Class
* Preschool
* Kindergarten
* Lower School
* Middle School
* High School

All of these process were at a minimum 16 month process per juncture!
We had our lists, folders, color pens, glasses, check books and even once our credit cards... and we took no prisioners!

Let's throw in all of the RIGHT summer programs, Spring Breaks, Winter Breaks, Clubs, volunteer activities and so on...

{still TRAVEL related}

What are we going to do after we take these next 6 months to make sure that our kid goes to the RIGHT college?

You know you will not be "sure" until after our first Parent Weekend in the early fall...LAUGH!!!!

Whew!

I say we travel or plan travel or dream of travel if the tuition will leave you taking that second job at Fresh Choice or McDonalds or Walmart(do we get discounts?)

Why are our darling hubbys immune from all of this cummulative TIME that we have invested in our darling kids...not counting the field trips, class parties, hours and hours of homework, attending sports and other performances, chaperoning dances, PTA, board duties, room mom duties, fundraising, school clothes shopping, parent-teacher conferences, report cards...

What on earth are we going to do now?

Now see...I am working on the Senior Ball, Grad Nite, Graduation and Senior Gift Committees where not ONE of us wants to say that these ARE our "last days" of doing these things for our darling children...

Ok, CRY with me: We-are-SO-fired!!!!

Don't know about you BUT...I am going to work these next 6 months for all their worth...just how can moms and MOB members get involved at the college level...NOT!!!

Ha-HA!
Oaktown Mommy

Oaktown Mommy: But this is what I don't understand. Where did I go wrong (other than not draw than darn circle on the map)? I sent my kid to the nursury school where they didn't "learn" anything--a total play, learn no letters one. We were Gymboree drop-outs--couldn't stand it. Delayed getting a computer in the house for years. Never asked for my kid to be tested for the Gifted Program. In fact, when one teacher suggested it, I said, "Keep her here in your classroom; she'll be less confused." Never "paid" for A's. Heck, I never asked if their homework's done. I was never a Homeroom Mother--thought the kids should be having a life at school without me. Attended one PTA meeting when the kid was in kindergarten. Couldn't stand it. Never went back.

So how in the heck have I ended up with this anal retentive, "need to get all A's", child is beyond me. I keep telling her, "Go out! Have friends! Enjoy your youth!"

I did read to them at night. I attempted to have (gasp) Family Dinner Hour with conversation. Did travel a lot, mainly because we just flat out enjoyed the kids. That led to this trial by college tour?

I'm going back to the standard, "You birth 'em, they come out that way, and nothing you do changes 'em."

Hmm, she is a lot like my mother. I'll blame her.

OK, amelia, I'm ready to buy into your "born that way" concept.

My hyper-conscientious one spent 6 years at an ungraded, unaccredited open school (modeled after John Holt's "unschooling" ideas) where everyone marched to their own drummer, and my laid-back one went to 6 years of parochial elementary school complete with uniforms and worksheet homework.

Like am1pm2, we haven't visited any colleges during the April campus visits. I doubt we'll be able to visit anything unless it's local in the spring.
Any other advice to those of us who just can't get to a campus at this time of year because of other commitments? Is it still worthwhile to visit colleges during the summer months?

Like am1pm2 I have a HS junior who hasn't been able to visit any campus this spring.
Can anyone give advice as to whether it would be worthwhile to visit colleges during the summer months? It's the only time we will be able to get away.

Advice for those whose kids are juniors and have no idea where, what, etc.

Take 6 deep breaths - now try to think of any adult you know whose life is now what they would have predicted at age 16. Probably zero, or close to it. Most of us have taken very winding paths.

As far as college selection - instead of thinking "what do you want to be when you grow up" - realize that there likely ARE some easier decisions. Varies by kid - but city or rural; big or small; climate; part of country - distance from home. If s/he can answer even one or 2 of these type questions, then the search narrows instantly. Also, there are various websites which ask a bunch of questions and then print out a list of potential colleges - most guidance departments can head you in this direction.

If you are traveling anywhere, stop by and see whatever college is nearby with your kid - even s/he has no chance of going there. Just seeing a few colleges in action can help refine the search.

I told our son early on that where he went to college was a family decision (meaning parents and him) - he had a large say in it, but we were not accustomed to letting 16 year olds make decisions on how to spend over $100,000 alone.

Last point of wisdom - if you think selecting colleges to apply to is difficult, wait until you have to do the eternal nag to get the applications in.

Three comments:

1. Being the eternal nag to get the applications done may not work half so well as sitting down once, looking the student straight in the eye and saying: "This is absolutely the last time I'm going to bring this up. You are planning your adult life and this is the first step. I'll give you any help you want, but I'm not going to drag you kicking and screaming toward that deadline. If I have to, then you aren't ready to go to college. Just think of how you'll feel, however, next April when all your friends are opening their envelopes to see where they'll go and think how you'll feel next fall when they're all leaving and you're not. Now, think about how I can help, and let me know. But the deadlines are your problem, and I suggest you make a list of them right now so you know how much time you have, because this is the last time I'm going to mention it. Period. Full-stop. Guaranteed. Have a cookie." Then hold your breath, cross your fingers, and stick to it.

Second comment: Expect your wonderful child to become insane in unexpected ways from end of junior year to Christmas vacation of freshman year. Sweeties become monsters; independent souls become clingy; hyper-responsible ones become flakey. Once they've gotten through their first set of college-level finals, they'll settle down.

3. About the far future: The first year after college is actually worse. Applying for college is a crazy time for American kids because all they've ever known is 18 years of getting ready to do that, but at least they've known the rules -- it's just a scary matter of put-up-or-shut-up and parents are still part of the process (for better or worse). After college, esp. if they aren't going directly to grad school, it's like going into free fall for many -- with the social cocoon of college dorms gone, daily routines completely changed, expectations now very murky, and no support systems in sight. Statistically it's a dangerous time for many.

So the more "in charge" AND the less stressed you can get them to be for this first passage, the better shape they'll be in for the later one. Just keep telling them you can help when needed but they CAN do it and there are no terminal mistakes -- it'll all be fine. YOU stay calm; they're already stressed, whether they look it or not.

Amelia: GROUP HUG!!!

You did everything just right like the rest of us moms and MOB members!

Visit campuses all year round...you never know who you/your teen might meet.

Gail: We blew that financial decision thing long ago...son went to BS(Boarding School) that cost $45K per year...he did have a major say in that decision.
His college choices do not cost nearly that much...matter of fact most of his choices will cost us a little over $45K in TOTAL after 4 years including us giving him miniscule pocket change.

Cassandra: You must have a girl! You know that Charlie Brown voice that they give the teacher...the wha-wha-wha one?
Well, that is what that sounds like to some teen boys...giggle.

As of today...I STILL DO NOT KNOW WHO ACCEPTED MY SON!!!

He has however called both sets of Grandparents so my guess is HE is deciding based on their input...
This means he got into all 4...I meant to say South Carolina not North...oops.

He told hubby "if" he did get into his 4 that he would talk with the grandparents and then "let-me-know" his choice!

I have a bias towards the Boston one and the Atlanta one. He really loves the South Carolina and Virginia ones.
Hubby does not care(roll-eyes).

My mom will not tell me a thing (he IS her favorite grandchild she states...).

My dad claims ignorance and changes the subject...means no Boston...no Atlanta...possibly...

The Paternals keep stating that their Grandbaby (their ONLY grand child) is completely capable of doing this alllll by himself!

It is driving me CRAZY! I "get" to pick son up after school today...got to get a plan together...

Plotting,
Oaktown Mommy

O.T. -- Why do you think my son is a girl?

Cassandra...I was asking in jest.
Now that I know...lucky you!

He sons like a dream.

My Best,
Oaktown

sigh!

gotta stop drinking mommy cocktails while I post!

That should read s-o-u-n-d-s not s-o-n-s

Oaktown

GBelle,

We went looking at colleges during the summer months, and it was just fine. There are always people there & you get a good idea of what the campus is like. Go on-line to whatever college you're thinking about, and there is usually a place for visitors to go to set up an appointment. Each campus that we visited had someone to show us around. They were all very informative & helped us rule out a few of them. Good luck!!

We did things a little differently. We waited till daughter got acceptance letters from all the schools in January of her senior year, then visited. This way, she was choosing, rather than hoping for a schools that might not accept her.

It worked well, and then when we were done, she had 2 "YES"s and two "NOs". I called the two yeses and asked for more financial aid. One added significantly more money, and she went there. She's finishing her sophomore year and still very happy with her college.

"got2travel2", in some ways you did it exactly right, but one needs to have an idea of the differences in feel between large and small, urban and non-urban campuses before applying. A summer visit can give a student an idea of what it would look like to be walking around a given campus and how hard it would be to get off campus (which may or may not be desirable). Most colleges keep some undergrads around working for the Admissions Office to give tours, group discussions, etc., exactly because many people take their first pass at the college tour over junior summer. So it's fine to do that -- just don't assume the February weather will look anything like it does in July!!!

We did some college visits last year over April vacation and other visits last summer. My daughter now says that the summer trip was a waste of time. I disagree; I thought we learned a lot about some schools and had a nice trip, but my daughter says she could not get any idea of how she would feel about a school when the students weren't on campus.

She has now spent a night at two of the schools that accepted her and has found that to be the most valuable tool for deciding where to go.

I'm just checking back to the subject and see that I certainly, if unintentially, hit a nerve with my original post.

Are summer visits worthwhile? Even though we have been lucky enough to have the school time off in spring to visit them when the students are there, I still think summer visits are helpful. I agree totally that having a child see the size of the campus, get a feel for the dorm arrangements, etc. can make a difference. For my kid, the physical "how close am I to a city?" probably is her first concern.

The student tour guides frequently have more time in the summer, too. My daugher actually visited 12 campuses through another program last summer. Often she was the only person on the tour. She would offer to take the tour guide to lunch or a snack and pump his/her for all her tiny questions (I know, I know--she's nuts. We've established that).

So if summer is all you can do, I don't think you're at a huge disadvantage. The weather point is great, but you can deal with that. We visited Northwestern on a sunny day with 81 degrees. Told my daughter, "If you're the least inclined to go here, we are gonna have to come back on January 15 when the wind chill is -45."

Oaktown, now you're going to have to keep all of us posted on your son's sloooww release of the vital information. Thanks for sharing that story.

We planned to split the difference - for the past few years whenever we were on vacation near any college, we would at least drive by to get some sort of idea of types of campuses - urban, rural, etc. Then his junior year during April vacation (during which college was in session) we visited his top 2 choices (both air travel away). Had visited UMass (live near Boston) for soccer tournaments and knew enough people who went there - so not a formal visit, but enough to get preliminary impression of the place.

Had planned to revisit top choices when acceptances came in, but by then he had made up his mind. So off to Savannah he goes.

Amelia:

Son says...next Sunday he will call me and tell me...I will be out of the country...love that boy.

SUMMER CAMPUS VISITS: Yes, do them, again, you never know who you might meet. We got face time with top administrators who had some down time.
I think this "helped" lots.

Now, our son had that many more hand-written thank you notes to write but, from all of the buzz around me now I think it did not hurt.

Every student who took time with him got a follow-up thank you note...these kids reported that back to the admissions and other staffs at the colleges we visited.

Call me kooky but, at Christmas I even sent the colleges (15 at that time) Christmas cards from us...not the one with the family newsletter, just a nice and classy "Crane" kind that we do not even send our family.

Finally, I was a kid who worked at her college during the summer...in the admissions office. I took families and prospects around AND what I had to say afterwards about them totally mattered with the admissions folks!

So, VISIT!

Happy College Travels,
Oaktown