Diamonds in NYC
 

I will be visiting New York just before Christmas and, fingers crossed, will be purchasing an engagement ring. Can anyone recommend some reputable diamond stores in NYC? Obviously, the Tiffany brand comes to mind but from what I've read you're paying (as with most established brands) for the name. I would love to get the name of a reputable store where I feel I can trust what the salesperson is telling me (if that is even possible).

Thank you.

Cartier, Harry Winston.

You need to educate yourself as much as you can about diamonds. Buy a book, shop on line, read message boards.

When you feel like you couldn't possibly know another thing about diamonds, read some more and do more research.

You are getting ready to spend and obscene amount of money on ....a rock, a stone and nothing more. Go into the jewelry store as an expert.

The best deals are in the diamond district but you need to know what you are looking for.

Don't rely on anyone else for this info.

Check Kwiat in the Diamond District; very reputable firm.

Read all about diamonds, but please do NOT buy a diamond and consider it an investment of any kind other than emotional. You could take that brand-new rock to the jewelry store nextdoor, and you would NOT get what you paid. It is a false market, a very structured and controlled system, from the mines to the cutters to the retail market. BTW, you can research on-line sites that sell loose stones and give detailed descriptions (using the usual U.S. standard) and prices. Then find out what settings cost, and you should be prepared to buy. Don't be afraid to discuss a discount, if you can back up your reasoning with knowledge.

So is it worth it to pay a bit extra at Tiffany's and at least know that you have something of quality?

Diamonds -- the actual stones -- are a commodity. If the "three c's" are the same, a Tiffany diamond is no better than one from the mall.

Unless your really know what you're doing, or have some really special sentimental reason for purchasing a diamond (this is an engagement ring?) in NYC or from a "name" jeweler such as Tiffany, I'd recommend purchasing it locally. For one thing, they'll clean it and check (replace if necessary) the prongs without charge.

Tiffanys ..Tiffanys ...Tiffanys..
Thats all I have to say. I would not trade mine for anything.

I understand that you will be proposing first and then shopping for the engagement ring together ?

While I'm sure that many will advise that you *might* save some money by buying in the diamond district, I think the selection is a part of the romance and the memory.

So...I would suggest going to Tiffany and purchasing one of their porcelain, signature boxes for the proposal. While there, speak with one of their diamond experts. Discuss budget, and make an appointment to shop for the ring together. Ask if they will provide champagne while you're making your selection ( I know they will !) and make another memory :-)

If you are travelling from Bermuda to make this event special in every way, it needs to be a Tiffany experience:-)

Marion

The porcelain Tiffany box that I suggested is their signature packaging. A blue square box, with white porcelain ribbon...and sells for around a $100. A memorable keepsake :-)

You do not have to go to Tiffany for the best quality diamond. I believe that all of the diamond merchants buy their stones from the same supplier(s). Do your homework first..look around in the best store in your town and talk to the merchant there before coming to NY. I live here in NYC and I would go to places other than Tiffany for serious jewelry...yes, to the diamond district. I am sure many will disagree....interesting if we could get an opinion from someone in the business.

Appreciate all the advice. Still not sure what to do. The "Tiffany experience" is appealing but it would piss me off to buy something in there and see the exact same diamond (cut, clarity, colour, carat) for less somewhere else. Don't intend to keep looking once we've purchased but you know what I mean...Then again would probably be even more pissed off if I bought something in say the Diamond District and found out two days later it was worth half of what I paid...
I think I may have answered my own question there!!!

Actually Tiffanys is a great experience!I agree with MarionCK
I have had serveral woman come up to me and say,"Oh, is that a Tiffanys ring." I can't belive how many woman knew that is wa Tiffanys just by looking and noticing the style. That just makes my day! Just wanted to share that. Best of Luck!

I agree that you should have a working knowledge of the 4c's (carat, color, clarity and cut) before you start any serious looking.

I also somewhat agree with Gekko - if the 4c's are the same, it doesn't matter where you purchase the stone itself.

Obviously the name cachet of having gotten a ring from Tiffany's or Cartier is greater than from a mall jeweler like Kay's. I don't know if that necessarily has to translate into better quality (as far as the mount), though.

Typically a higher quality stone will already have GIA certification papers.

I'll just venture a guess and say that selection of any major purchase comes down to gender issues.

But when discussing a symbol of love ;-), the male may just have to give way to the female.

You should certainly expect to purchase a quality diamond and get your $$ worth. But that can be be subjective, even to a jeweler with a loop on his eye.

From the female perspective, your future wife may be more inclined to remember the romantic trip and proposal and the selection of the ring in a place worth bragging about.

I'm not sure she will think fondly of *negotiating* in the diamond district for an extra point or two in the diamond.

I think she might remember an environment where she is made to feel like a princess.

I'll stop now, I promise :-) ! I have two daughters, one married, one recently engaged...and their stories about *the ring* are probably influencing my response.

Marion

Surprised no one has mentioned Fortunoff. It's a few blocks from Tiffany (54th & 5th) and while it may lack the snob appeal of Tiffany, they're known for good value.

I think where you purchase depends on what style of ring you want and how budget conscious you are. You will get more for your money at a place like Fortunoff.

Here are some Fortunoff rings
http://www.fortunoff.com/dept.asp?dept_id=1060408

Here are the Tiffany rings
http://www.tiffany.com/expertise/dia...engagement.asp

Marion, do you work for Tiffany's? If not, you should because you've sold me!!! I personally would always go for the brand when buying most things. I wasn't sure what to do in this situation because (a)it's my first time getting engaged and (b)I know nothing about diamonds. On reflection, I guess I'm one of those people who gets a bit of a kick from saying "oh it's from Tiffany's" or "oh it's Prada" as opposed to someone who gets a kick from getting a great deal on the item.
Anyway, thanks again for all the advice. Hopefully she'll say "Yes"!!!

I have no doubt that she'll say YES :-)

And we'll all look forward to hearing about that enthusiastic YES !

I don't work for Tiffany, but I do have a PR background...or you could just blame it on my romantic soul and my Irish heritage :-)

We don't just tell good stories, we plan them !

My heart is filled with good wishes for you and your lucky bride to be :-) !

Marion

Oh, dear, it makes me roll my eyes. To think that throwing money away when you don't need to is worth it for the experience?! (It's like tossing it away on a fine meal or show tickets--urgh!)But seriously, how important will your future finances together be to your intended--worth, for example, a mortgage payment on a home, perhaps? Can you even talk about it? (If you can't, time to rethink things.) Do some homework, go into the trenches armed with your research, and get that rock, with or without some adequate champagne. (what good is a porcelain box when you wear the ring all the time anyway?) Whether you go to Tiffs, buy the setting and stone wholesale on line (certified, of course), or go to the diamond district, just KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING!!

Agree to doa LOT of research on what you want. Of the 4 c's - cut changes in fashion - and what's very popular now may look too trendy - or old fashioned in 20 years.

And way too many people go for size - when what really matters in keeping value is quality (clarity and color).

So be very sure what is realistic for you - in terms of $ and what you can get for it before you buy.

I'm with Sylvia here - even if someone could look down and exclaim "Oh, Tiffany's!" (which I certainly could not and I have a good eye for jewelry), it just would not be worth whatever to me...necessarily.

You're gonna pay a heck of a lot extra for the "Tiffany Experience" and "Tiffany Brand" - not that it won't be well worth it to you in the overall.

AND, I'm one of those who would definitely want to be included in the "selection process".

Many women aren't so particular about the size so much as the cut (round, oval...) and setting (some prefer plain, others with a bit of embellishment).

I haven't quite figured out whether you plan to have the ring in hand when you propose, or propose, then go shopping. My vote would be for the latter, especially to get the most out of the "Tiffany Experience".

For me, anyway, the bigger "kick" from a top brand (than bragging rights) is TOP, EXCEPTIONAL, QUALITY. Comparing buying (not the item itself) an engagement ring from the "Diamond District" with one from Tiffany's, to me, is sort of like comparing a fine Martini at the "99" to the same enjoyed at Rainbow Grill. When it's important to you, the extra is well worth it for the "experience". And, believe me on this, you'll forget the extra you paid rather quickly, but you'll NEVER, EVER, forget the "experience"!

If you can, I would highly recommend reserving a window table at Rainbow Grill for your proposal. (If you wish to economize a bit, or even if you don't, the pre and post theater menus, 6-6:30 and 10-11:30, are excellent. Though drinks are outrageous, $20 last we were there, but very heavily poured...) The view is MAGNIFICENT (have you seen "Sleepless in Seattle"? - a great "date", especially at home, movie)and just SO romantic. While there, if you wander down the hall (past the rest rooms), there are huge windows overlooking Central Park.

Note that during the holidays you cannot get into Rainbow Grill just for drinks, you must have a dinner reservation.

Most important, NO WAY will you ever, ever "find the exact same thing for less elsewhere". You will not get any sort of "bargain" at Tiffany's, but you will most definitely not get "ripped off" either.

Though it may seem so, I'm really not contradicting myself here, as it seems you may truly enjoy the more "sentimental" endeavor.

Here's another take on the idea:

When I got engaged it was a complete surprise. I had absolutely no idea the ring was coming so I had no input in its selection. (Normally this would have been a bad idea, but in this instacne I fared far better letting him pick it!)

My husband went to a diamond broker well-known in our region (which was then South Florida) who bought his diamonds from NYC -- mostly he dealt with diamond district dealers.

Before buying the diamond, he went to a LOT of trouble to research the 4 C's. (This is ESSENTIAL for you to do for such a big purchase, by the way.) After preparing with his research, he purchased the diamond from the broker, knowing exactly what he might compromise (cut or carat) over what he would absolutely not compromise (clarity or color). This made his selection far more personal: he ended up narrowing the stones down to four, then choosing the one with the best clarity and color for its size and style.

THEN he took it to a local jeweler and had a setting designed to match the stone. He even added a couple extras on the sides to make it sparkle more.

When he proposed to me, I was absolutely stunned by the diamond ring he gave me. I would never have had the nerve to pick something so fabulous for myself. But when I found out what trouble he went to make it something totally tailored to US...his PERSONAL selection fit for ME...well, let's just say I was more than impressed at the lengths he would go to, all for me. And to think I had no idea he'd been working on it for those weeks prior!

Now, while romantic and sweet (I hope you think so, anyway), here's the unfortunate part of our tale-- and the one you should pay most attention to:

When I got my ring sized a few days later, the jeweler who sized it tightened the prongs too much. My stone -- precious and expensive as it was -- BROKE. (Yes, you read that right.)

Thankfully, because, as one eaerlier poster pointed out -- diamonds are a commodity -- and also because my husband did his research and knew what he was talking about, he was able to sell the pieces back to the broker (to be recut into smaller jewelry) and buy another diamond. Same process, same selection criteria: he got the best color and clarity, and chose a style and size that I liked. Fortunately, the broker was able to find a similar stone and my ring #2- which gets complimented almost daily, wherever I go - is stunning. But what if he hadn't known what he was talking about? Insurance, as we found out, will only cover so much, and replacing the stone to equality was risky business for someone who just trusts the jeweler.

I guess my points are these:
--sometimes the effort is worth more than the designer or brand name.
--a diamond is a commodity, not just a fashion statement. And even the most expensive diamonds may not be perfect. Know what you are buying in the event that you must replace it, appraise it, trade it, or whatever in the future.
--And on a personal note, if I just wanted a diamond for the designer name, I'd rather have a Harry Winston than a Tiffany. :D

Thanks for all of the advice. Just to confirm, my girlfriend will be picking out the ring.

Still pretty undecided to be honest. I mean if it was as simple as having an understanding of the "4 C's", seeing a certificate and then buying the diamond then I would have to wonder what all of the fuss is about?? Everyone should be able to go out and buy great value diamonds!!!

Also, just for the record, were we to choose Tiffanys/H.W. then it wouldn't be a case putting a stamp on her forehead saying "My ring is from Tiffany's"!!! However, people will inevitably ask where you got it as opposed to "is that a VVS1 or VVS2"? Assuming the ring looks well (which I presume is more or less guaranteed with Tiffs/H.W. although if my girlfriend doesn't see something she loves then obviously we won't be purchasing in Tiff's just for the sake of it) then is the monetary value really that important at all? I'm not going into this thinking about how much the ring will be worth in 10 years time or how much I would get for it if we split up!!!!
Marion, I think Irish people are too sentimental...we need to toughen up!!!

I didn't read all the posts so this may have been said before - but at Tiffany's while the experience is wonderful - you are paying for the name. DH and I have always done business with Iannelli Diamonds, 45 W 47th Street(north side of street) in the Diamond district. Fair, reputable, and one year naned in New York magazines best places to buy a diamond in their annual shopping guide. Great guys, have known them for years!Ask for Anthony or Mario

One thing that needs to be noted is the grade of the stone. There are certain grades the stones come in, and it is based on th 4 c's. You can shop the grade you are looking for. The standard for an investment grade stone is a 1 carat VV1 and it used to be $30,000. That's is how they price the stones, from that investment stone. If you decide on a grade, you can then get a better idea what the each dealer is charging for that grade. You can then decide what grade and budget and have a better idea about prices. When looking at the right stone,and give you the price ask them about the grade. I believe the grade is numerical and if they show you a beautiful stone tell you the price them ask about the grade.It shows you are educated. Also, ask if it is GIA certified. Make sure you get a certificate on the stone as well. GIA stands for Gemological Institute of America. You get a certificate and authenticates the stone quality. I would recommend looking at Empire Diamond in NYC. The only company that is still in the Empire State building since it opened. They advertise as 1 800 SAVE HALF. They will guarantee if you buy a stone from them they will buy it back at the same price from you if you want to sell. All thier stones are GIA Certified and the view is spectacular. They will even let you see the stone under a microscope point out the flaws and give you a certicate of the grading. When I purchased my stone from them I got the best education in Gems for a lifetime. Maybe not as romantic, but believe me I have bought jewelry for many years on 47th Street and do not trust any of them.

Wow! A written guarantee to buy it back? Plus the education--if I wasn't in the business, I'D go there!

you can get great free advice and idea about how much each cost go to bluenile .com they have a good artilce about buying diamonds also consider maybe while you are in NYC go to Parmus NJ they have the NJ diamond exchange on rt 4 west and also Fidelity Diamond one of the best on rt 17 south and get a lower sales tax in NJ

Sales tax? What's sales tax?

Personally, my wife gets most of her jewelry from a jeweler in the "other" diamond district, near Canal and Bowery. The jeweler was recommended by an acquaintance years ago. The first time we were ready to buy, we took the stone, pre-purchase, to a certified appraiser down the block, just to be sure we were getting what we were told we were getting, and the price was good. I also had a copy of a current Rapaport Diamond Report.

Since then, we've done lots of business with the guy (a family business since the 30's), always a good deal, and always get what we paid for.

Buying jewelry retail (Tiffanys, Macys, etc), is silly, in my opinion. I'd rather save some money than pay 25-50% more for a little blue box. Also, I wouldn't take recommendations from someone you don't know (which is why I didn't give you the name of our jeweler), which includes this board. You never know who is for real and who's a crook or a shill. And even if they are for real, they may not be getting the deal they think they're getting.

Oh, about the sales tax - I live out of NY, so he ships our purchases (or an empty box) to avoid the tax.

Hi bermyguy! I've been following your story, as I replied to your proposal post as well :)

I may get knocked for this, but I'll say it anyway. If you and your girlfriend are willing to pay for the experience as well as the ring itself, Tiffany may be the right choice for you. You only get engaged once, and if you're not on a strictly tight budget, the memories may be worth it.

I know that you're coming to NYC specifically for a visit and the proposal, and that is all part of the experience. Getting engaged in New York at Christmas time is something magical that you'll always remember, and buying your ring at "The" Tiffany will be a lovely memory as well. This is especially true since you'll be going through the process of visiting the store, shopping, and buying it there together. Therefore the cost is inclusive of more than just the physical ring.

I would enthusiastically recommend a trip to Ben Moses in the Diamond District. My family has been going to him for decades, and he is incredibly reputable (several celebrity clients) and fair. He's a sweet old Romanian man, who loves to chat. You will get a lot of personalized attention.

Ben Moses
15 West 47th Street
New York, NY 10036
(212) 221-1017

I would recommend against going to Tiffany's if you are NOT going to buy there.

My husband and I went in there when we were ring shopping and we never looked back. We have a family member who's a jeweler and I could have had a much bigger diamond for the same amount of money. In the end we couldn't get the Tiffany ring out of our heads because nothing else compared in terms of style and quality.

We are thrilled with the purchase and those folks who say you're only paying for the name - I disagree. My rings and my husband's band have held up much better than others' platinum bands, as have my rings versus my other platinum rings. You really do get what you pay for. (Also, my understanding is that Tiffany only takes the best diamonds on the market...talk to someone there for info.)

We were also happy with Tiffany's because we felt that there wasn't any shady business going on - their price is their price.

All that said, if you want an "experience" - Tiffany in NYC is not the place. The store is overrun with people who are window-shopping, and some of the staff isn't particularly friendly (and you have to work to get their attention).

Bermyguy - perhaps you should look into whether you have to pay duty on the ring? Not sure how customs works between US and Bermuda.

I'm with BarryK. My parents have their "guy" on Bowery near Canal that they've been going to for years and years. My mom has the most beautiful engagement ring I have ever seen. Dad goes back every year to get Mom a gift from the same jeweler. You get so much more for your money there.

I thought I'd said all I had to say but you know there's always something to add :-)

Hunnym makes some good points about how crowded it may be at Tiffany or Harry Winston, especially during the holidays.

I would encourage you to go and do some advance work. I'd go straight to the customer service office, and ask them to select a salesperson for you. Discuss budget and perhaps pre-select some rings that make you smile. Set an appointment and make clear the distance you've travelled and that certainly a purchase will be made. This is major money, no matter where you eventually shop, so YOU are entitled to run this show :-)

And since I've shown myself to be the true Type A that I am, I'd take a stroll up to 59th and Central Park, and take a look at the horses and the carriages and make a selection that you think will please and talk to the driver about this special ride :-) No need to stand in line and just *take what you get*.

I'll try to be quiet now.

Marion

>>>>>
We were also happy with Tiffany's because we felt that there wasn't any shady business going on - their price is their price.
<<<<<

the whole diamond racket is, by definition, shady. from the cartel, debeers to the bloody mining origins, to the vulgar diamond industry telling us that the "commonly accepted rule of thumb" is to spend three months salary on an engagement ring. people should smarten up and not follow these phony "traditions" that were wholly dreamed up in a marketing suite.

from a marketing perspective, it is pure genius. make people believe that they just have to buy a diamond for an engagement ring, then make some phony rules about how much people have to spend on that contrived tradition.

I wondered if anyone would bring up that appalling recent commercial (literally) attempt to guilt men into spending more than they can afford for what used to be a symbol of commitment (not pricing love). DeBeers has had a monolpolistic stranglehold on the market for more than 100 yrs, and folks seem to buy into it. I loved that Chuck bought Di a sapphire (tho the end result wasn't all that great...).

Oh for Friday night's sake, let's not turn this into some sort of political discussion.

Some traditions rise above what might be economcally/politically at any given time.

You can call it marketing if you choose, but a symbol of love/betrothment has been around a long time.

There are many who choose something other than a diamond and so it should be...a stone, a symbol to last for generations, something very personal to the couple. And when the children come along, a story to go along with the *ring*...not about its' value or color, but about the love it signifies, and the story !

Marion

bermyguy, if you want some experienced jeweler advice please e-mail me at [email protected]. I live in nyc, I am diamond certified by GIA(gemological institute of america) and DCA(diamond council of america) and have been in the business for a few years. If not, best of luck with you and your engagement. Josh

One question, Romantic Sir:

Are you absolutely sure she wants diamond solitaire? Some women don't.

I didn't - for me it was all about a very top quality blue-green tourmaline (with two small accent diamonds).

Does she wear any diamonds now? Or does she lean toward emeralds, sapphires, rubies or semi-precious stones in the jewelry she has?

You might want to discreetly feel this question out before your trip and make adjustments to your shopping plans or go ahead accordingly.

(I always told myself that the guy who showed up with a diamond engagement ring wasn't the man for me - because he didn't know me well enough to be asking if that's what he brought).

Bermyguy, you sound great - I'd shop at Tiffany's with you!

We too shopped the diamond district downtown for an engagement ring. I chose the style I wanted, we both looked at the diamond (under a microscope not a jeweler’s loop) that would be set in the ring. He didn’t “pop” the question in the store – it was another day in a romantic setting. You aren’t getting engaged in the store, so why does it matter where you buy it.

With the “Tiffany experience” you will likely pay more for a ring than you would in a diamond district store. If you are just starting out, look at the practical side too and see what the additional $$ you are paying at Tiffany will buy for your future. Your honeymoon? Furniture? Downpayment on a house?

In the near future you may be able to buy lab created diamonds that are chemically and physically true diamonds. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0212090354.htm
DeBeers will have some competition and the price for diamonds will likely drop.

Thanks for all the help. After analyzing all of the info I think I'll....join the priesthood!!!!