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Comparing Chicago to NYC
My sister and niece will be traveling with me when I travel to Chicago in July.
They both love NYC but not so much for cultural attractions as the 'feel' of the city... if that makes sense. They love wandering through neighborhoods and tasting foods different from those at home. Shopping in NYC is an experience too... My question to you is this... aside from museums, architecture and performing arts (which are well documented) what is there to see in Chicago? What neighborhoods are a must see? Is Chicago worthwhile for someone who wants something other than museums, architecture and performing arts? Thanks for any advise! |
Well, I think this might be a troll (is Chicago worthwhile?) but I am going to respond anyway....
"Aside from museums, architecture and performing arts" what else is great about Chicago. Here are a few things. 1) skyline -- not just the architectural masterpieces but the fact that there is a beach running along the length of the city with a vibrant life of its own from Volleyball at North Avenue to outdoor gyms at Oak Street to Dog Beach up north to families riding 5 seater bikes near the Aquarium to people from all walks of life and all neighborhoods running, walking and biking the paths 2) Green spaces. Say what you want about Mayor Daley's foibles, but he sure has made the city pretty. Parks everywhere from little neighborhood oasis to movie nights in Grant Park to the Zoo in Lincoln Park to Millenium Park with the Bean and the Fountain and the crazy Gehry Bridge. Also, the fun eco-friendly bike valet station to assist those who enjoy the miles and miles of bike paths 3) sports -- go to an afternoon Cubs game at Wrigley and contrast it with a night game at the Cell. Both have their admirers and detractors and their own, unique experiences. Can take the el to both 4) Dining -- from high-end world class restaurants (Charlie Trotters, Topolobambo) to fun cheesey neighborhood joints (Weiner Circle) Chicago has it all. Ethinic neighborhoods abound -- Greektown, Chinatown, Pilsner, Ukrainian Village, Devon, Andersonville, Little Italy, Argyle -- all are must see neighborhoods. 5) Shopping -- stay far away from Michigan Avenue (what neighborhood these days doesn't have a Pottery Barn?) and enjoy the many other shopping pleasures of Chicago from high-end Oak Street to Trendy Southport and Bucktown to yuppie Lincoln Park to edgy Wicker Park and up and coming Lincoln Square. 6) the Lake -- take a cruise, rent a boat, rent a kayak, stroll the paths, pack a picnic, go for a swim. You can do it all right down town. There, I gave you 6 reasons why Chicago is "worthwhile" other than museums, architecture and performing arts. I am sure many other posters will help you out as well. Enjoy your trip. taitai |
The history Astor Street District on the North Side is a definite must-see. A stroll through the area is a great way to spend a few hours.
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Ooops, that second word should be "historic."
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It's a good answer, taitai.
But I would say this as well: They are not alike. Think about the "eras" of great growth from which they blossomed. Chicago was later- quite after a huge industrial and manufacturing revolution. So there is an entire spacial factor missing in NYC, Manhattan's especially, equation. They are very different because of this, and "neighborhoods" having a different size and distance quotient in turn. The feel is different, IMHO, because of this and other reasons that have to do with its history and economics. |
The funny thing is when I'm in New York, it is my favorite city in the US. When I'm in Chicago, it is my favorite city in the US.
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When I'm in New York and Chicago my favorite city in the U.S. is Boston.
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Certainly not a troll, I have been an active Fodorite for many years.
Funnt thing is that I have not spent any time in Chicago. I have been often, in and out the same day because of the flight frequency from Dallas. In my in/out trips, I have not been really impressed. Before you get angry, understand that I have not seen much. I would like to love Chicago as much as everyone else and possibly with this extended trip I will see much more and a love affair will be born ;) And I do appreciate your responses!!! |
I hope that will be the case, TX. If I recall correctly, you got quite heated on a thread a year or so ago that involved an Englishman asking whether he should visit Dallas or Chicago. I hope your visit to Chicago will win you over to our side of the arguement! Or at least help you to understand why we defended Chicago so fiercly!
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I second the lake, or a Chicago river boat tour. Also, I got a kick out of going to Mt. Carmel Cemetery, where Al Capone a few other gangsters are burried.
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No, no, no... I could not compare Dallas to Chicago. Odds are, if it was a heated discussion, that it involved this one poster who loves to bash anything that is NOT Dallas. If I mentioned that the Galleria was not really 'all that' he would freak out and just rant and rant.
But, on a side note... the Galleria is now FABULOUS! Within the last year they have totally finished the rennovations. But I think this must be what you are referring to... |
You'll love Chicago (and, yes, this is a New Yorker writing this).
I know you are looking for attractions other than museums and architecture. Stil, a trip to Chicago would not be complete without experiencing both of these--the city's archtecture and the city's museums. The Art Institute of Chicago, for example, is one of our nation's (if not the world's) great museums. |
CAPH52, I think you mean me...
Sure, Chicago is a bigger and faster town than Dallas, no question about it... the question was HOW MUCH bigger and faster... My argument was... not twice as big and fast... maybe just half again as big and fast. IE, Chicago is just a bigger version of where Dallas is right now... On the other hand, New York is something much more than a bigger Chicago. Liikewise, LA is much more than a bigger version of Chicago. TxTravelPro, glad you've seen the light about the Dallas Galleria, although I don't think cosmetic changes like artificial palm trees make much of a difference... It was better in the past than you gave it credit for, and it's not as improved as you seem to think. But what do you think of Northpark? |
Just by studying relative populations, you can get some insight for the New York - Chicago relationship.
In the 2000 census, metro Chicago had about 9 million people, and was the #3 metro in the US. NYC was first, with 18 million, twice the size of Chicago. Zoom to 2006. Metro Dallas now has about 6 million people, and is the 4th largest American metro. Chicago now just a scoch over its original 9 million, and still # 3. So... Chicago is still half of what New York is, but the sunbelt cities are approaching Chicago's size and rank. So Chicago is closer in size to a city like Dallas... or even Miami or Philadelphia... than it is to New York. |
xbt23... I went to the 'opening' of Northpark last weekend. It was really great. Some great stores... even if it is a bit archaic in design. I have a soft spot for NP because it was basically the only mall I went to until they opened Town East.
I am particularly happy to see a Lush store open in the Dallas area. It took too long. And the new flagship Sephora will be welcomed!!!! The Galleria has a multitude of new stores since the restoration. At one point the 3rd floor was sparsely populated. Cosmetically, the new flooring was a necessary improvement and more escalaters are very convenient. The thing that has always been great about the Galleria is the perfect design. No backtracking necessary to see everything. :) I have also warmed up to the Lux. It is very good and a great addition to the mall. |
WSell you can say all you want about Dallas and New York but when you get to Chicago get ready fro some great architecture..you know, the kind that is <b>timeless</b>!
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Yes, I'll acknowledge that... Chicago has a reputation for great architecture that encompasses much of the history of America.
Maybe a better reputation than New York has... |
In July (especially coming from TX) you might enjoy renting bikes and riding on the paths of Lakeshore Dr. You can see the colorful sailboats and enjoy the refreshing breeze. You can bring your swimsuits and hang out on the beach / rocks of Lakeshore Dr too. Good people watching there.
The zoo is free and very well done. There are few things more Chicago than its sports culture. Why not try to catch a baseball game? If you are there before July 9, go to the Taste of Chicago. Sample all kinds of yummy food and listen to free bands. |
There's a "feel" about the city of Chicago that's hard to explain. Both sides of my family are from Chicago, but I grew up in Houston (which was then, right behind Chicago, the 4th largest city in the US), and even as a child I <i>sensed</i> that the rythym of Chicago was different. People in Chicago are proud to be from Chicago-- they LOVE their city-- and there's this interconnectedness amongst its residents. I'm not talking about the suburbs- but the city. You might feel it when you step off the plane. I used to.
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My deepest apologies, TX! And thank you for being so nice about it! Yes, I did have you confused with xbt23.
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Dallas is not comparable to Chicago in any way, except perhaps total population in that Dallas is so NEW compared to Chicago (and Chicago is not old) It is similar in that it's neighborhood based and that is where you find the true character of the city. The city has never been more beautiful and taitai gave some great responses. Chicago does have the "energy" of NYC but to a much lesser extent. Visit the Gold Coast for the gorgeous mansions, Lincoln Park/Lakeview/Wrigleyville all border each other and have great shops, restaurants, the lakefront and the zoo. Wicker Park/Bucktown has a more eclectic feel but has fantastic shops and restaurants (IMO the most NY of the listed neighborhoods).
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Having grown up in the Midwest and lived in Chicago for 20 years, I much prefer Chicago. One thing no one has yet mentioned is the friendliness of the people in Chicago. To give you a real life example, when I asked for directions from a policeman several years ago in NYC, he said "get lost, don't have time for you". First trip to Chicago, asked directions from a policeman, he said "it's not a safe neighborhood to walk in, I'll escort you there". In Chicago, it may be a big city, but the people have a Midwestern orientation. Up until recently, when NYC finally cleaned up their city, it was MUCH cleaner in Chicago as well. There is no beach in NYC, but you can go swimming within a few hundred feet of massive skyscrapers (Oak Street) and there are boats in city harbors within view of the city as well. Granted, I never lived in NYC, but Chicago was a very manageable big city to live in. There are many ethnic neighborhoods in Chicago. Go to a Cubs game and check out the neighborhood "joints" Lincoln Park aqrea was mentioned, boutiques and shops on Halsted St. on North Side, Wrigleyville, don't have recs for South Side neighborhoods, but I am sure someone can help with that. Good idea, walk around, talk to people, and eat the food. You will love Chicago too!
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Since when are there no beaches in NYC? Did Brooklyn finally secede from NYC?
Aliska I love Chicago and NYC but I don't think you've seen enough of NYC. |
I'll agree with GoTravel... NYC has plenty of beaches... ever heard of Jones Beach?
Also, I'll disagree with swalter518... it's possible to compare Dallas and Chicago... it's technically possible to compare Chicago with any other city in the world... perhaps a better statement of his/her point is to use the word "equivalent" instead of "comparable". It's true, Chicago is larger than Dallas or Miami... but my claim is that Chicago, Dallas and Miami belong to the same CLASS, or category, of cities... Chicago is merely a larger example of the same class. Thus, Chicago will have more and somewhat better museums, more shopping and restaurants, due to its larger size...but not inordinately so. Essentially, Dallas has whatever Chicago has, except in smaller quantities and perhaps a little inferior in quality. In comparing Chicago to New York and LA, however, both NYC and LA have social and cultural and urban institutions that Chicago lacks. Chicago is just simply not a "small NYC". |
Folks, let me make another point... I'm not attacking Chicago, or trying to diminish its stature, or trying to brag about my home city of Dallas. I'm merely trying to make an intelligent discussion of what cities are and where they stand.
I was saddened to hear of the recent death of Jane Jacobs... when I began to read her in the 1960s, it kindled an interest in urban life and vitality that, fortunately has never left me. It's certainly possible for visitors to enjoy all the wonderful things that Chicago has to offer without comparing Chicago to New York. |
Chicago is different. It is on a large lake and NOT on an ocean, yet was a huge shipping and distribution center long before Dallas. It was primarily rebuilt the second and third times much after the small scale former century's ocean cities of the coastal USA.
It's a city's history that contributes immensely to the "feel". Chicago is different than any of the others mentioned on this thread. It's not about population size either. For better understanding of the qualities and quantities of which I post- try to access PBS's great video- "Chicago- the City of the Century." Almost all libraries and some Video rentals have it. Chicago was built at a time of robber barons- when there was this rather small window of opportunity for a rather unique phenomenum to occur. A tremendous ability, time and means all met to sculpt a city beyond the former human scale spatial units of earlier abilities or choices. It just wasn't about beauty nor necessity either, as it has been most other places- and this was coupled with almost no regulation. Kind of like having a immense "Miracle Grow" for concrete fueled by an endless supply of enthusiastic sweat and labor. Something 2006 knows so VERY little about and does not tend to admire or emulate. And just as a heart of a body has it's own central location and is the most connected to the flow of the inside essences that feed and connect us all, Chicago has it's "apart" location in the USA's middle. It is separate and distinct. If it's the heart muscle, New York is a brain, and LA is a face. Washington D.C. is like shoulders or hands. I've never been to Dallas. Just my opinion. And my suggestion is to go to LaSalle St. Station on a weekday morning and/or visit the Board of Trade that's right there as well. Note the grain and other symbols that decorate the various facades. Feel the rush, look at the game faces. It's not just about shopping. It's always been about business and not just the clean and pretty trades either. And NOT about thoughts, but about actions. And yet I do think that there is an almost provincial quality that still coats Chicago and its peoples. I totally agree with the poster who said we do not have the cultural or current "pop" etc. connections that the coasts have. We don't. Thank God. Because I think there is an entire facade layer that has been left off most Chicagoans in the process. Maybe it got further scrapped off in the crux of the biggest labor movement explosions and human rights based migrations in USA history. |
"however, both NYC and LA have social and cultural and urban institutions that Chicago lacks." I think your lack of knowledge about Chicago is showing.
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It is a close call for me. I love both cities. I give a slight edge to Chicago because of all the activity on the water. Lake Michigan feels like an ocean on the city's banks. I love the thriving Blues and improv scene. On the other hand, no city is as sensual at night as NYC. I could walk through Grand Central every night and never get tired of it. And as a jazz lover, I have never found anything close to NYC. In a real close call, I'll go with Chicago.
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JJ5,
I liked your post... |
aliska - I just had to reply to your post. I'm from Canada and the experience I have had every time I have visited New York City couldn't be more different than yours. The willingness to help guide and make suggestions has been wonderful - several times I've even had New Yorkers come up to me to ask if I need help when they noticed I appeared lost. I note that you mentioned "several years ago" and I only started visiting the city a few years ago so maybe things were different prior to that but I have always felt welcomed with great hospitality by pretty much everyone I've encountered in New York.
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GoTravel, yes, I have been to NYC about a dozen times, have lots of family in Manhatten, Queens and on Lon Giland (their pronunciation). In terms of people, it's similar to whether/not you enjoy the East or West Coast of Florida. Lots of family in both NYC & East Coast, but people are nicer, not as pretentious, friendly, more helpful in Chicago and West Coast. There's a reason why the cowboys in the Pace salsa commerical laugh when they find out the product is made in NYC.
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Then where did you get that there are no beaches? I'm confused?
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Agree w/ Aliska about attitudes and friendliness in Chicago vs. NYC. I grew up in Chicago and have lived in NYC for the past several years. I'm almost suspicious of clerks and waitstaff when I go back home to visit Chicago because they are so nice, like they're up to something:-)
In my rather narrow experience, the people I encounter socially and professionally in NYC (Manhattan in particular)are much more pretentious than my group of friends in Chicago. I think it has to do with the fact that there are relatively few industries in which my peers are employed (finance, marketing/advertising/PR, law) so it makes it easier to benchmark yourself against others, which tends to breed insecurity and jealousy. Also, we pay so much to live here, and everyone is OBSESSED with what neighborhood others live in and how much they pay in rent/mortagage. It's very easy to compare your material and professional accomplishments in Manhattan, and some people spend a lot of their time doing just that. It's refreshing to go home to Chicago and not have to deal with it as much, but I still wouldn't trade my life in NYC for any other place. Remember, this is my own experience and I fully understand that I'm not speaking for anyone else. |
<i>So Chicago is closer in size to a city like Dallas... or even Miami or Philadelphia... than it is to New York.</i>
'Metro Area' is bullhockey dreamed up by small-citiers to make their cow towns seem more impressive than they actually are. Judge by city size only, please: 1. New York 8,017,078 2. Los Angeles 3,703,930 3. Chicago 2,895,444 4. Houston 1,958,258 Big D is #8 at 1,190,334. Put another way, there are SEVEN New Yorkers for every ONE Dallasite, and THREE Chicagoans. Of course the Metro area is larger, it includes FORT WORTH. I'm sure Boston would love to include Providence in their population figures, too. Dallas isn't even close to being the largest city in Texas, much less a dominant national locale. I would say Chicago is closest in size and layout to Toronto (old boundaries). <i>On comparing Chicago to New York and LA, however, both NYC and LA have social and cultural and urban institutions that Chicago lacks.</i> Nonsense. I live in NYC. Chicago clearly has museums that compare very favorably to what we have here- the Art Institute has an exceptionally good collection. We don't have anything like the Museum of Science and Industry. The University of Chicago is as good as or better than any University in NYC. There are dozens of notable skyscrapers in Chicago, it is well known as a center for architecture. Charlie Trotter is famous in NYC for his food. Oprah, too. Also, no beach in NYC? Uh, no, I can name off the top of my head: Coney Island Manhattan Beach Brighton Beach Rockaway Beach Orchard Beach |
QC, the reason the federal government uses metro areas to evaluate the relative importance of cities... that is the most appropriate measure.
Since people normally drive... or rail commute... all over a metro area, that is the unit of population that is most important. For example, take London. The "City of London" has a population of about 4,000 people... but the London metro area has a population of 10 million or so. Of course London is divided into many different municipalities, such as Kensington and Merton and Enfield. The DFW area... one contiguous area of streets and buildings... is divided into many independent municipalities. Just as is greater Chicago or greater NYC. The bottom line... NYC is the largest metro area in the US, LA is second, Chicago is third, DFW is 4th. Houston is, maybe, 8th. |
So by your criteria, Washington DC would not be as "relatively important" as Dallas? I think when evaluating 1st tier cities, I can think of several other criteria to just the relative importance of cities:
-Influence on goverment at a national level - Presence of multi-national business - Financial activity (exchanges, banking centers) - Centers of education (top tier universities) - World class cultural offerings (museums, symphonies, etc.) And the list goes on... |
I was just in Chicago at a huge convention a week ago. I talked to people from all around the globe. To a person, they all said they were really enjoying Chicago. Some (many) were there for their first time, and all said they'd like to return for a better look around.
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Clearly the title of this thread is wrong. It should be: Comparing Chicago to NYC to Dallas.
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QC and others, I took that "lack" comment to mean that Chicagoans don't have the "social"/urban pop scene that LA & NYC has. The kind of "kiss-kiss" next to your face, we get into the line and go right in while you watch, kind of icon thing; entertainment media and pop culture figures coming out of the woodwork etc. Look at the difference in social scene this way, Oprah vs. (put any of 1000 "in" names here.)Not that we don't have multiple celebrities, but it's just different. Frank Sinatra LOVED it here for that reason.
When all becomes water under the bridge, all that celebrity hoopla doesn't mean squat here in comparison to the coasts. Not that we don't have some pretension or class barriers but nothing on the (IMHO)scale of the coasts. I didn't take it to mean Museums or architecture at all. Ours are better, and that has floored me the most in the last 4 or 5 big city coastal trips. I was under-whelmed by several in SF and in NYC especially- but I refrain from stating why and where- because it sounds like bragging. And not just in Art, because our Aquarium rocks everyone else's out of the water. Although I still haven't seen the new Atlanta. The confusion about beaches is probably the common one that many people make. And that is considering all of NYC as primarily Manhattan or the Manhattan scene. You can't believe how many young people I've meet everywhere who think NYC is just Manhattan. |
I'll jump in....
I love both cities madly. New York is the epicenter of East Coast history. Chicago is the epicenter of the Midwest. New York "feels" older and more-established without surrendering a millivolt of its wild energy. Chicago is younger but doesn't impart the nervous excitement I feel when I'm in Manhattan; it's a big town, but I can relax there. Maybe because I live in a high-energy urban area in the West. Bottom line: You MUST experience Chicago. The museums, the fantastic architecture, the down-to-earth people, the whole Midwestern culture thing. |
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