I'm still dying for the explanation of how metro population means anything? Detroit is larger than Boston. Funny, when I look at the relative volume of inquiries on this forum, Detroit is not occupying a great deal of mindshare.

JJ5: Good points in your post! I'm not surprised by your reaction to San Francisco. Its architecture is a bit underwhelming, but that's kinda beside the point; SF exists, like a lot of places in California, as a liberating state of mind more than a hallowed ground of Destination Architecture and World-Class Museums (oddly enough, the best museums in California are all in the southern part of the state). Besides, in a world region where Nature likes to throw a building-leveling earthquake around every 100 years or so, we don't get a lot of opportunities to throw up a really notable big building...!

I myself read Chicago's "lack" in culture as a remark that ignores Chicago's real and vibrant performing arts scene. There is some incredible theatre and music being performed there. The TV and film industry is active. Chicago doesn't need to compare itself to or compete with the cultural centers on the coasts-- it's doing quite well by itself.

And notice I haven't mentioned Dallas once....

Also, since NYC is twice the population of Chicago, and is surrounded by satellite cities such as Philadelphia and Boston, I can't see putting Chicago into the same class as NYC.

Is this a post about Chicago or really Dallas? Whatever.

TxTravelPro-I personally think Chicago is the greatest city in the United States. And I live in New York City which many others think is the best. I loved living in Chicago and miss it terribly. It's just a fun, laidback, architecturally gorgeous place. Great shopping, fabulous restaurants, good culture, and CLEAN. I won't even tell you what I saw on the subway in NYC the other day!

Have a great time! Summer is a great time to visit!

Lizziea06, if you don't understand what a metro area means, or why it is important, I encourage you to further your education. The Federal Office of Management and Budget, which defines metro areas as of 2003, will happily explain it to you on their website.

Weasel, once we dispense with the context... i.e. where Chicago stands in relation to other metro areas, then we can properly discuss Chicago's not inconsiderable joys and urban pleasures.

I think we can agree that Chicago's attractions may be out of proportion to its urban ranking. Or maybe not... everyone has an opinion.

"once we dispense with the context... i.e. where Chicago stands in relation to other metro areas, then we can properly discuss Chicago's not inconsiderable joys and urban pleasures."

I see tons of threads which discuss the relative merits of various cities, and most of them don't require the dissection and examination in minute detail of what constitutes a metro area and it's population. Except threads that mention Dallas. Then it MUST be brought up, repeatedly. If you look at the beginning of this thread, there was considerable discussion about the joys/non-joys of Chicago vs. New York without the nonsense about exact population counts. It's really quite unnecessary for you to bog down threads like this, especially threads that have absolutely nothing to do with Dallas.

Weasel,

Only because Dallas, Philadelphia, Miami and Washington are cities in the same class as Chicago, whereas LA and NYC are not.

If Chicago is not in the same class of cities as NYC, don't you think that is relevant?

Agreed Weasel - the minute one has to turn to census information to prove the importance of their city, the argument has already been decided;-)

XBT - I would happily encourage you to come up with a new line of justification.

TX Travel Pro - Enjoy your trip! Do you know what month you'll be visiting?

Lizzie, would you think that the census information for Paducah, Kentucky versus that of Chicago makes a difference?

Since Chicago has half the metro population of NYC, I think that makes the distinction pretty real... the economic, social, political and cultural clout of NYC versus Chicago, is also pretty real.

Chicago has enough going on to stand on its own... it doesn't need to be another New York to be valid.

In fact, the economic, political, social and cultural clout of NYC over the USA, and the world, is far greater than the difference in population.

We live in a winner take all world, and NYC has grabbed the winner's share of the marbles in the game of life.

Geez Louise!!! I was hoping to maybe find a few good restaurants for a trip to Chicago this summer. Instead I wound up with a headache after an overload of useless statistics. I'm with you Weasel.

Pipe down XBT. I live in NYC and grew up in Chicago. I am perfectly confident in my relative assessment of both cities. You, however, seem abnormally preoccupied with census figures, as evidenced on your past posts on this board. And Paducah? What point does that prove? Obviously there census information is going to be different. Does it make a difference? Not to me or this discussion.

I'm well aware of Chicago's validity. You seem to be awfully defensive about Dallas, however.

If you want just a few good restaurants, try Paducah, Kentucky (which is a substantial city, in my opinion). If you want hundreds of good ones, Thy any one of two dozen American cities.

Stick to the subject of the post... Chicago versus New York.

Umm...right. Anyway, WTM, what types of restaurants are you looking for? Price, location, etc.

Lizzie, if I'm going to compare NYC and Chicago, numbers are one good way to do it. Your personal opinions are just fine for yourself, problematic for your relatives, and mostly not relevant for everyone else.

No offense intended, but a personal opinion is... well... personal.

If you have some very personal experiences about the cities, things that you'll remember forever... this thread is a good place to share them.

What I mean is this... give us some compelling stories, some colorful anecdotes, that will make NYC and Chicago come to life for us...

You mean like you've done with all the numbers, xbt?

But xbt buddy, under another screen name you tried to tout the vast superiority of Dallas over Chicago, and admitted <b>you had never BEEN in Chicago in your LIFE</b>.

You have absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread other than meaningless statistics about metro populations. Unless you've finally spent a good amount of time in Chicago and explored its myriad charms.

I repeat: Chicago doesn't have to compete against any other city. It stands on its own. As is the case with a select few cities in this world, when I set foot in downtown Chicago my being fills with the energy of a place with a past, a present and a future.

Then I fill my stomach with Lou Malnati deep dish pizza, and all is right with the world.

More to life than numbers, CAPH... for example... how much do you love a place...

Woody Allen loves NYC, and it shows in his films...

Make me love Chicago...

Thanks Lizzie - I'll start a new thread later, otherwise I might end up with recommendations in Paducah, Kentucky.

Question is still open...

Why should I love Chicago?

xbt, I'll give you credit for one thing. I don't think I have ever in my life seen anyone contradict themselves as much as you've managed to in this thread.

WTM - would you mind if I shared my personal opinions, or would that be irrelevant for you?

I can also provide information about how many restaurants are in Chicago vs. other cities so you can decide the best location;-)

XBT: you should HATE Chicago - and stay far, far away. Same with NYC, terrible place:-)

Lizzie, I have that...

The Mobil Travel Guide rates restaurants across America, with one of the two most prestigious comparative rankings extant (the other is the AAA Travel Guide).

Yes... tell me about the things in Chicago that have been magic for you...

And the things in NYC...

xbt,

You could never love Chicago. Not enough shopping malls, highways, housing developments, and all manner of things sterile and plastic.

All of which are in abundance in the Shangri-la of Dallas, TX.

Lizzie - I would appreciate your personal opinions. Location probably isn't important, though, I would much prefer to know the capacity of each restaurant and how many forks they have available.

Guy18,

The suburban lifestyle you mention, &quot;shopping malls, highways, housing developments, and all manner of things sterile and plastic&quot;, is pretty abundant in suburban Chicago, just as much as suburban NYC or LA, but its not my lifestyle.

I like things like Dallas' urban pedestrian neighborhoods, its push for rail transportation, its love of rehabbing old buildings...

But enough about me and my town... let's get back to Chicago vs NYC...

Good one, wtm!

TX - Are your niece and sister interested in nightlife at all during the trip to Chicago?

xtb--I have to say this for you. You are a gentleman (not sarcastic). Others would have really told me off by now. Continue to enjoy Dallas! I'll look for you next time I'm at the Galleria!

I'm going to go make some popcorn...this is a good one to watch.

O-) O-) O-) O-)

&quot; I won't even tell you what I saw on the subway in NYC the other day!&quot;

Well why not? My favorite part of the day is listening to my husband tell me what he saw on the subway....

It's not Chicago VS NYC. It is COMPARING Chicago to NYC.
No, my family will be asleep by 9pm and awake by 6am! Psychos! They are farmers.
Where is THE BEST place for REAL Chicago pizza. It needs to be in the city.
Y'all are going to go crazy about this one...
I had NO CLUE that the shore was that cool. I have never even seen it.
It seems all my meetings are near that crazy crooked place on the el. I have no clue what it is called.
But to me Chicago has always been that 2 or 3 block area right below that crooked part of the train.
I think they will love it... me too.

GoTravel, last time I looked, there ARE NO beaches in Manhatten. Yes, Long Island, Brooklyn &amp; maybe Queens have beaches. You cannot compare Oak Street Beach, which is right in the heart of the Magnificnet Mile and Lake Shore Drive to Jones Beach or any of those places.

<i> munch...munch....munch...munch</i>
@-)

oh my goodness...I have used this site for years for helpful advice and I am really appalled and what I'm reading! Many people have offered nice (and yes PERSONAL-isn't that why we are here? to get others' opinions) and well-informed information on the topic at hand. It's a shame that one or two people have to ruin it for the rest of us.

That being said, Nina wanted to know what I saw on the subway the other day. It's disgusting as all heck but if you really need to know it was the same thing you see in your toilet after a big steak meal (well, for some of us!). Right in the middle of a subway car. Smelled horrific which is how I got to looking over to my right and saw it. Elephant dung. I ran faster than Forrest Gump. I want to move back to CHICAGO!!!!

Yes, I know TXTravelPro is not a troll, LOL.

I'm scared to stick my proverbial toe in the water here, but what colleges are located in the actual city of Chicago?

Here is where I can be of assistance. DePaul University is located in the heart of Lincoln Park. Loyola University Chicago is in Rogers Park, just a bit south of Evanston. Northwestern is in Evanston, a large suburb just outside the upper edge of Chicago. You can take the El into the city in about 20 minutes. University of Chicago is south of the Loop. Illinois Institute of Chicago is also south of the Loop. There's also the Art Institute of Chicago, Columbia College, and other community colleges. If I'm forgetting something forgive me, it's been a while.