Aussie Family- Advice sought - Washington/Boston/NYC/Virginia Sep 2011
 

Our family of 2 adults and 3 teens are flying into Washington for a 5 day prize trip in Sep/Oct this year. As we have never been to the US before we are looking at extending our trip to about 2 1/2 weeks to make the most of the LONG flights.
We are currently thinking of flying up to Boston and making our way back to Washington by train or plane stopping off in NYC and any other suggested highlights on the way.

Our particular interests are History (particularly the Civil War) Politics and the big Art and Science Museums. Kids would love to also see the main NYC sights they are used to seeing on TV

Its a lot to ask for such a short trip and having never been we have no idea how feasible it is. We are trying to stay away from hiring a car as we drive on the wrong side of the road over here and it would be very confusing in traffic. We don't mind walking fair distances and are happy to take local tours or public transport to get around. Even happy to do tours a few days long if any are highly recommended.

We are very early in our planning but thought it would be great to get some suggestions from the experts to help us to know what we are looking for!

Thanks!!!

The northeast corridor between Boston, New York, and Washington DC is one of the few areas of the US with effective public transportation options between the major cities. I prefer to use ground transportation between these cities since trains and buses arrive and depart in city centers. Also by the time you factor in traveling to and from the airports and security check-in requirements, it takes about the same amount of time as flying

Trains: The three cities are well connected by the Amtrak train system. This costs more than a bus, especially for the premium Acela service (which may not be worth the extra cost), but is not subject to the traffic delays the affect a bus. Here's the official website for schedules and tickets:

http://www.amtrak.com

Be sure to check for Amtrak discounts if and when you buy tickets. You might get a discount for advanced purchase or a certain route. Here's a link to the current offerings so you can see the possibilities:

http://www.railserve.com/amtrak_coupons.html

There are a few bus lines that connect these cities, though the recent popular discount bus lines have become very popular. Tickets can be incredibly cheap depending on advanced purchase:

http://us.megabus.com/
https://www.boltbus.com/

Good information on transportation between Boston, NYC and D.C. from Ellenem. You'll want to travel by public transportation in each of the cities, so you might check out their websites:

Boston: www.mbta.com
NYC: www.mta.info/nyct/
D.C.: www.wmata.com

If you have an interest in the Civil War, you MUST visit the Gettysburg Battlefield. There might be some bus tours from D.C. at that time of year, but your best bet will be traveling by car. (I know you prefer not to drive, but it will be so worth it. I've driven on the left in Australia and got some advice before I tried it. Perhaps you can do the same.) Your visit to Gettysburg will be greatly enhanced by hiring a Licensed Battlefield Guide. For info on these guides, see: www.gettysburgtourguides.org Also, there are some excellent Civil War battlefield sites in Virginia, many near D.C. The two closest to D.C. are probably Fredericksburg National Battlefield Park (www.nps.gov/frsp) and Manassas National Battlefield Park (www.nps.gov/mana)
Finally, if you would like to see some lovely Virginia countryside, I'd recommend a drive out to Shenandoah National Park. It can be done as a day trip from D.C. but there are also two lodges in the park for overnight stays. At that time of year, you must book rooms in advance. (October is particularly popular for visitors because of the changing leaves.) For a day trip, I'd recommend driving to the Byrd Visitor Center and get some recommendations for hikes from the rangers there. Have lunch at the nearby Big Meadow Lodge and be sure to save some time to enjoy the views, the fireplace and the rocking chairs at the Big Meadow Lodge Great Room. For more info on the park, see: www.nps.gov/shen

The time you have should allow you to see what you want if you keep moving.

I agree that to see Gettysburgh you really need to go by car (you can check for tours but I always find them lest common denominator). And you should definitely see something colonial - at a minimum Mount Vernon (Washington's home) but better an overnight at Colonial Williamsburgh.

Amtrak is good between cities - just check in advance for discounts. Flying and train usually take the same amount of time and cost the same as well. There are discount buses - but if you run into traffic or bad weather or accident it can add hours to your trips.

What you should do as soon as your dates are final is to start looking for hotels - esp in NYC - since you are headed into the most expensive and crowded time of the year there.

The Gettysburg battlefield is the most famous in the North, and the one most easy for you to access on a Boston-DC trip. But Civil War sites will be few and far between in the areas you describe. Most of the Civil War was fought in the Confederate states and to some degree in the border states (Maryland, mostly, of that latter group), NOT the Union. You're better off looking for American Revolution sites in both Philly and the Boston area (NYC was a center of Toryism during the Revolution and the British held it for most of the war, so it has far fewer Revolution sites than Philly or Boston).

Philly has the Franklin Museum, which is an excellent science museum. It also has Constitution Hall, that dang bell with the big crack in it and numerous sites of historic importance relating to the Revolution. Boston is the birthplace of the American Revolution and a history lesson in itself.

NYC has the American Museum of Natural History, DC has the Smithsonian and the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.

Art museums are like shooting fish in a barrel -- Boston has the Museum of Fine Arts ("MFA"), Philly has the Philadelphia Museum of Art, NYC has the Met and MoMA and Whitney and Guggenheim and Brooklyn Museum and . . . and DC has the Mall that runs from the Lincoln Memorial to the Capitol and is lined with museums, memorials, monuments, etc., which you just need to Google to learn about.

You can take commuter trains from DC to Fredericksburg, VA, near battlefields and a cute colonial city (one of George Washington's farms is there). You can also take a commuter train to Shepherdstown/Harpers Ferry, two historic small towns in the West Virginia panhandle right across the river from Antietam. Each city is within 2 hours of DC.

Colonial Williamsburg is a blast if your kids like history, and there is a good amusement park nearby- Busch Gardens- for rides. This is also close to Virginia Beach if you want some relaxation time. September will be still be hot enough to swim and sun, while October can still be warm or pleasantly cool (70s).

The great thing about DC is that we have lots of museums but since most are free, you can run in for a quick exhibit tour but not spend so long that the kids get bored just to get your money's worth:)!

Colonial history sites in Philly are also fun and right in the middle of the NYC-DC train route.

What a great family adventure! Have a wonderful trip!

In Boston, don't miss the USS Constitution.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7623081257993/

In NYC, subway art in the Times Square station, of which here's a sample:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7623088372713/

We very much enjoyed our visit to Harper's Ferry, W. Virginia, about 1-1/2 hours from DC by car (I see someone else posted that you can get there by commuter train).

http://www.nps.gov/hafe/historyculture/index.htm

But if you do decide to go to Gettysburg, Frederick, MD would be on your route.

http://www.fredericktourism.org/memb...gory/17/sect:v

Wow! You guys are quick and give great advice!
We are definitely looking at going to Williamsburg, maybe we can train it there from DC and hire a car from there. Gettysburg is high on the list as well.
We are committed to 5 nights in Washington as that's our prize and I don't think we will have any problems filling in the time there!
Just worried we may be rushing too much to go to Boston and NYC and Williamsburg/Gettysburg as well. We love to walk the places we go and get a feel for what its like to actually live there (sounds odd I know but we even love to go to the local supermarkets!)
Even though its so far into the future and they have previously travelled Asia and the Pacific the kids are excited already.
Thanks so much for the comments so far, we really appreciate them!

Did anyone mention the museum of Science in Boston? It is a fantastic one.

If the trip will last into oct definitely leave Boston for last - since you will be at the very beginning of the leaves changing - which is like nowhere else outside the US. (I know some european disagree - but they don;t get the same blazing reds and fiery oranges that we do - since the trees are different - esp sugar maples which I haven;t seen anyplace else. You should be able to take a day trip from boston into the mountains to see some good color.

Also if you've never had real maple syrup (not the maple flavored stuff) definitely get a good pancake breakfast one day with real bacon (in strips and crunchy) and pancakes with real butter and 100% maples syrup. (Do not go to a cheap pancake house - since they can't afford to use the real stuff ($6 for a small bottle) at their prices. (I accidentally ate n one in Georgia and they used margarine instead of real butter - and I swear the "maple syrup" was sugar water.)

All the major east cost cities have a ton of history but Boston wins hands down for the REvolution. Definitely get a good guidebook and walk the Freedom Trail. And don;t forget to check out eh giant cod fish on the front of the State House.

A monument to Civil War Col. Robert Gould Shaw (who was white) and the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment (whose officers were white but whose enlisted men were African-American) is opposite the State House in Boston (on the Freedom Trail). The 1989 movie "Glory" is about the 54th.

There are a number of sites that were stops on the Underground Railroad in the areas you want to visit. Not a railroad at all, it was a network of houses, churches, and other places that offered refuge to slaves fleeing the South. The Boston Globe newspaper published an article featuring several in New England about a year ago:

http://www.boston.com/travel/explore...stones/?page=2

For a listing by of sites by state for the whole USA (which, unfortunately, does not include cities or website), go to http://www.nps.gov/history/ugrr/ and click on the "Updated Listings" link. You'll have to do a web search to get more info on those that interest you.

Two other thoughts:

(1) Don't be afraid of renting a car, at least to do some driving to sites away from the cities. Virtually all rental cars in the US have automatic transmissions, so you will not have to mess with shifting gears. And you will adjust to driving on the "wrong" side of the road pretty quickly (I was in South Africa in October and found the adjustment pretty easy) - especially if you are not in a big city. Don't even attempt to drive in Boston, though!

(2) I love visiting grocery stores, too! I think it's a great window on the places you visit, and trying out some of the local foods adds to the fun of the trip. Any time I go outside the US, even just to Canada, I try to visit at least one supermarket. (My friends are amused that sometimes my souvenirs include boxes of cereal or similar items!)

nytraveler - Where is the cod outside the State House? The Sacred Cod hangs inside the House of Representatives in the New State House (carved in 1784, it is actually the third cod to hang above the legislators).

3LP - If you want a tour of the New State House (the oldest parts of which date back to the late 1700s) you should arrange it ahead of time (they are free - see http://www.sec.state.ma.us/trs/trsidx.htm for details). The Old State House - former home to the current as well as the previous 2 Sacred Cod - is now a museum and has an admission charge (http://www.bostonhistory.org/?s=osh).

I was on the verge of dropping Boston off my list (except husband's cousin is a Doc at Johns Hopkins) but looks like it might turn out to be a highlight the Sacred Cod has me intrigued!

I'm loving all the brilliant ideas guys...I don't know how we will fit them all in!

Johns Hopkins is in Baltimore.

Flying to Boston and making your way back to DC by train is an excellent plan.

I also think a car rental for day trips outside the city (such as Harper's Ferry or Gettysburg) is the way to go. You should play it by ear and make sure it's going to be a nice day before committing to a car rental.

You'll pay a few dollars more than if you had reserved in advance but it's good insurance against spending a day outdoors in the rain.

2-1/2 weeks is a good chunk of time. However you split your time up, you'll have an opportunity to see a lot.

You already have 5 nights in DC locked in - I would consider an extra night for each day trip planned from DC.

I don't think Williamsburg is a day trip - consider staying 1 night (or even 2) in Williamsburg.

For other cities, I would consider a minimum of:

3 nights in Boston (add 1 for each day trip planned)

1 night in Philadelphia (add 1 for each day trip planned)

5 nights in NYC (no real day trips outside NYC come to mind) - hotels in NYC are expensive by American standards, but about equal to (or slightly less) what you would pay in Sydney. Don't let the fact that NYC is more expensive than your other destinations shorten your stay there. It NEEDS the time as there is SO MUCH to see and do there.

This leaves 7-8 extra nights to split up and add to the minimums suggested above or for other day trips as it suits your interests.

Actually, the sacred cod hangs in the MA state Senate chamber. It isn't exciting in and of itself - just what it represents, which is that the early economy of MA was very dependent on the fishing industry. It faces left when Democrats are the majority party and right when the Republicans are. Needless to say, it has faced left for a very long time! The tours of the State House are free and the old parts of the bldg are interesting. There is so much Revolutionary War history in the Boston area. If that interests you, leave enough time to enjoy it.

irishswampyankee - the Sacred Cod is in the House Chamber, not the Senate Chamber.

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/trs/trsbok/hourep.htm

The corresponding symbol in the Senate is the Holy Mackerel, part of the chandelier - although it is much smaller and lacks the long history of the Sacred Cod.

<i>no real day trips outside NYC come to mind</i>

You could take a day trip up the Hudson to Hyde Park (home of Franklin Roosevelt) and other cute towns in the area - Amtrak's line runs right along the Hudson for some nice views. A little trickier to get to, Teddy Roosevelt's home on Long Island was surprisingly interesting, with well-versed docents for the guided tours.

While it's true that there is less Revolutionary War history in NYC than in Boston, Philadelphia or DC, there is still plenty. Also the NY Historical Society often has interesting exhibits, and they're always well curated IMO.

If you're interested in Boston colonial history, a day trip out to Concord and/or Lexington is definitely in order. In Concord, sites are readily accessible off the commuter train from Boston, including the Old North Bridge. It also was the home to a number of notable authors, including Thoreau, Hawthorne, and the Alcotts, all of who's homes are part of the local historical society. (Lexington has more restaurants and lodging offerings.)

Oh, and if you're interested in seeing the fall foliage in the Boston area, you could always do your proposed itinerary in reverse: travel up from DC through NYC to Boston, then fly back. You might even be able to time it so that flight coordinates with the one for your return home... (admittedly a lot of sitting at one time!).

Just goes to show our lack of US geography skills, hubby thought JH hospital was easy to get to from Boston, guess that gives us more touring time if we don't visit the cousins!
So with 3 nights in Boston, 5 in NYC, 1 in Philly, 5 in Washington and 3 or 4 extras it sounds like we might need to try to try to stay longer and send our University student daughter back home on the plane by herself!

Boston sounds wonderful, wait til I tell the kids about the Holy Mackeral as well as the Sacred Cod!


Thinking my next stop is an easy read book on American History! Even my 12 year old knows more than me!

Off to do some guidebook and history book shopping!

Thanks again!

How close are you to these cousins? Baltimore is about 60-70 km from Washington, DC. It might be possible for them to come down one day to tour with you, or at least one evening for dinner.

Doesn't hurt to ask them!

I was going to suggest that you could stop there between DC and Philly - but I like Cranachin's idea better! :)

We havent seen cousins in probably the last 10 years but husband grew up and went to school with them so I think he wants to go, might suggest they come to us in Washington rather than we go to them ;)

I come from Baltimore and with your limited time I would skip Baltimore. DC, NYC, Boston, Gettysburg
Are all so much better. You cousins can come to you.

Baltimore is a really easy trip from DC, depending on your DC location. Also, Baltimore is a kind of quirky, fun city. I think meeting your cousins there for a day would be fun for you and the kids. You could also make it a stop on your way to/from NYC. Are you flying home from DC?

I would do the trip in this order: DC (visit Mt Vernon and Manassas from there. Also visit Frank Lloyd Wright's Unsonian house on the day you go to Mt Vernon, as it is very nearby and is a small masterpiece of his work), Virginia (to include Williamsburg), NYC, Boston. Logistically, it would be easier to leave off Williamsburg and visit Philladelphia, but Williamsburg is unique, small town, and has major amusment parks. It is also only a little over an hour from there to Virginia Beach if you want a beach day. Plan on three nights if you want to do more than see only Williamsburg.

Amtrack does go to Williamsburg from DC, so you can take the train there. You would have to take a bus to Virginia Beach if you do not have a car.

I have taken the Bolt bus between Baltimore (it also goes to DC) and NYC several times. It has always been on time and very efficient - and cheap. It could probably save you a bundle of money and it runs all day long, so you have lots of options, time wise.

If you don't know about colonial history or the American REvolution start there - it's really fascinating - the first of the middle class political revolutions - rather than an economic one like the French. Something I showed to a foreign visitor that they found fascinating was a video of the musical 1776. Not sure if it's available where you are - but it makes some of the founding father come alive as real people - not just historic figures.

There's also a really good program (I think it was on Public Broadcasting) about Wshington at Valley Forge - when the revolution almost collapsed - but he saved it by crossing the Delaware in midwinter via the US navy (a group of Glouscester fisherman) and taking the Hessian mercenaries by surprise. A huge victory with not a single American life lost. And, eventually, many of the Hessians defected and ended up settling in the US after the Revolution.

<i>Amtrak does go to Williamsburg from DC, so you can take the train there. </i>

Not recommended. Timetables are infrequent and you NEED a car to get to the various places you'll likely be visiting in the area - including Colonial Williamsburg. It's also faster to rent car, allows flexibility, and (with your group size) much cheaper.

This day-trip needs a car rental, just MHO.

Amtrak is NOT relaibel south of DC. My uncle used it several times to visit family n VA and he was always late - fro, 1.5 hours up to about 5 - just sitting on a train.

To see Wlmsbrg you really need a car.

Amtrak SUCKS outside the DC-Boston corridor and it's not so great even from DC to Boston (average line speeds from NYC to Boston = 63 mph). Do not take it to Williamsburg.

That said, it's typical that Boston people would worship a fish.

Company will only fly us into DC. We are thinking from there, fly to Boston train to NYC, train back to DC. Then get out to VA to stay a few days and hire a car to get around. Surely if we stick to the smaller towns we should be OK (I have been driving for over 30 years...just on the wrong side of the road, think we'd better buy the USA maps for our NAVMAN)

Unless we could pick up a car from one of the DC airports if they are outside the city and drive from there to VA. Is that a likely possibility?

We could of course do it all in reverse. It may end up depending on how much time kids can get off school (won't know when their exams are until after they go back at the beginning of February) and whether University student daughter has to fly back home by herself from somewhere.

Thanks for the heads up on sticking to the main corridor with Amtrak. We are normally plane rather than train people but with the short distances we thought the train would take the same amount of time and we could see the countryside along the way.

Anyone have a suggestion for easy read (so kids will read it as well) accounts of the American Revolution and or Civil War or even a general American History book? I'm thinking more Bill Bryson than Encyclopedia style! I'd love to know a bit
more before we come, even if its a good read for the long plane trip!

We are looking forward to the Boston Fish! One of the guidebooks also had a picture of a big Gold Lobster/Crayfish on the cover. Gotta love a city that loves its seafood!

As long as you're not driving around Boston NYC, or DC you'll be fine in a car rental (especially with GPS).

You can easily rent a car at Reagan National Airport (DCA), it's right on the subway line - or about 15 minutes by taxi from downtown DC.

Here's a good book idea for the whole family (a note about one of the reviews in the link: A "liberal" in America is someone who is politically "right in the middle" in Australia).

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Know-Much...pr_product_top

Why would anyone fly 18 hours here and back for just 5 days? Glad you are extending your stay. But why are Aussies interested in the American Civil War? Most sites are not in Boston or NYC, but in the South. Did you mean the Revolution?

When in NYC, check out Coney Island(actually the amusement park) before it's all torn down and condos are built. Walk to Brighton Beach for Russian cuisine. Take B1 to Manhattan Beach, walk to Emmons ave.

There are Civil War sites all around DC. And the OP said the five-day trip was a prize, but they are extending.

If it's a Boston guidebook, then that's definitely a gold lobster!

At the U.S. State Department's website you can download a book caled "Outline of U.S. History". It's an Adobe Acrobat file (4.4 MB). The blurb below is from the website.

http://www.america.gov/publications/...y-outline.html

"A chronological look at how the United States took shape -- from its origins as an obscure set of colonies on the Atlantic coast a little more than 200 years ago into what one political analyst today calls "the first universal nation." This fully illustrated edition has been completely revised and updated by Alonzo L. Hamby, Distinguished Professor of History at Ohio University."

Anybody know whether "U.S. History for Dummies" is worth recommending to the OP? (Don't take offense - there is a whole series of "For Dummies" books on a HUGE variety of topics. They provide a sometimes humorous look at their topics.)

Also, you might find this article on the teaching of American History in Australia interesting:

http://www.journalofamericanhistory....0/minchin.html

From Boston do take a quick trip to Lexington and Concord where the revolution really began - when about 500 Minutemen (local farmers and shopkeepers) dropped their plow or left their store, picked up their guns and headed for Concord to defend their supplies of munitions.

A small group of Minutemen alerted by express riders gathered at Lexington to delay the British and fell back after sustaining numerous injuries. This gave the larger force time to gather in Concord - where at North Bridge the 500 Minutemen defeated 3 companies of British regulars to start the Revolution.

From that point the British were confined to Boston, being besieged by the american forces. British tried to break out during the Battle of Bunker Hill in June - which they eventually won - in the 3rd assault of the hill - because the americans ran out of ammunition. But it was a Pyrrhic victory - since the British lost more than 1/3 of their troops, a very high number of then officers - since the americans held fire until the British troops were close enough that they were hitting specific target. It was also a concern since the untrained Minutemen were able to stand against professional soldiers in pitched battle, which the British had assumed was impossible.

The British were able to hold Boston for the rest of the Revolution, since they were supplied by sea - as the americans had no navy - but the British never got outside of Boston again.

Thanks yet again.

I have ordered the "Don't know much about history" book, we won't have a problem reading around the politics if necessary. I also ordered another of his books about Rosa Parks for my 12 year old to read, she will find it fascinating.

The article on teaching American History in Australia was very interesting. American history is not really taught in our schools at all, Junior high school history is largely Australian History, Senior High schoolers, if they want to study history (not compulsory) choose between Ancient History and Modern History, Modern History is theoretically World History since the French Revolution but in practice its World War 1 and 2 plus a specific case study from a range available. The case study our school teaches is the Arab/Israeli conflict.
So my kids interest comes from my husband and their own reading not from school. So please forgive our knowledge shortcomings ;) we are keen to learn more.

I love nytraveler's potted review of the Revolution. We definitely want to visit Lexington and Concord, maybe we can grab an organised tour from Boston?

POMAH us Aussies are interested in all sorts of things that might surprise...but the American Revolution and the Civil War were major events in history that helped shape the modern world that we never really learn about here so I guess that's where the interest comes from.
Again, a huge thankyou for all your interest and time, every post is much appreciated and very helpful.
Can't wait to see the giant gold lobster...lobster here is about the price of gold!

"So please forgive our knowledge shortcomings"

Do not apologize. I doubt many here have a comprehensive knowledge of Australia history.

Nytraveler gives a good summary of the Revolution but just avoid confusion, one correction--the British left Boston on March 17, 1776 after they were challenged by George Washington, and the Continental Army armed with cannons from Fort Ticonderoga in Vermont. Their presence on Dorchester Heights threatened the supply lifeline of the British, who decided to leave Boston for Canada.

It was Washington's first major victory. Don't mean to bog you down with history minutia but I needed to clarify that Boston didn't spend the Revolution in British hands. Boston now celebrates March 17 as both Evacuation Day and St. Patrick's Day (though it is no longer an official holiday).

Your trip sounds wonderful.

Do try to go to Concord and Lexington. I know there are bus tours. The Visitor Center in Lexington is not to be missed. It has a very good movie describing the battles and the progress of the Patriots. A lot of the surrounding landscape, the "Battle Road," looks much the same as it did in 1775.

The Golden Lobster was on top of a fish market in Boston. The shop was destroyed by a fire but the lobster was taken out of the burnt debris. I think it's still around on display.

<i>since the americans held fire until the British troops were close enough that they were hitting specific target</i>

Isn't this where the famous line "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes" comes from?

<i>as the americans had no navy</i>

A small quibble: the US Navy was created by George Washington during the war; the Continental Congress commissioned the first ship to be built in Marblehead, MA in 1775, and it sailed from Beverly, MA in the same year... (This was all in the news recently, because the birthplace and date of the US Navy is very much disputed! This page gives a good summary of the whole thing: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...state-new-york )

* * * * *

I remember mentioning Concord and Lexington up-thread. Even if you don't get a guided tour, the towns are easy to get to, only 20-30 minutes outside of Boston proper. In Concord, in addition to the Revolutionary War sites, there are the homes of Thoreau, Hawthorne and the Alcotts (<i>Little Women</i>), plus Walden Pond.

Also, you might be interested in the book <i>Cod</i>:
http://www.amazon.com/Cod-Biography-...dp/0140275010/

While it is not specific to Boston per se, it's a fast and enjoyable read, and provides a really good basis for understanding the economic power and historical context of this fish in the "development of New England and eastern Canada from the earliest times". (The author did a similarly interesting read on salt.)