Anyone ever heard of this credit card policy before?
 

I'm arranging a dinner for 25 at a restaurant, and the booking manager there told me I would have to pay by cash or check -- I cannot use my credit card.<BR><BR>She says it's standard policy so the restaurant doesn't have to pay the 3% transaction fee on the large tab (about $1000). I say that's nonsense. If 25 of us walked into the restaurant and asked to have the separate tabs put on each of our credit cards, would the restaurant refuse?<BR><BR>This, I realize, is not earth-shaking but it is bothering me a bit, to the point that I'm searching for another restaurant. But let me first ask: Has anyone heard of a policy like this before?

Sounds like pure greed to me. Give them $1,000 in added business and they're still not happy - they can't let go of the 3%? I'd also look elsewhere, only because of principle.

Far as I understand it, it's against a merchant's credit card agreement to accept cards for certain purchases and not for others. I would call your credit card company and ask if this is the case with the card you want to use. Then you'll have the info you need to argue. I've encountered this internationally before and usually been able to get them to accept a charge. If you're deadset on this place and they won't budge, you could inquire about paying part on credit card, part by check.

As a restaurant owner, I've never heard of this. I believe this is against the rules of most credit card processors - they have strict rules about not charging customers fees, not having a minimum, not refusing a customer's card, etc.<BR><BR>The credit card processing companies are highway robbers, in my opinion. Mine just informed me EVERY time I swipe a card it will cost 21 cents (in addition to the percentage fee). So if Joe Customer brings me a worn out old card and I swipe it six times (not unusual) before the $2.50 transaction goes through, too bad. Or I can &quot;hand key&quot; it for an even higher fee. But I cannot refuse the card, or the customer can report me and the processor can &quot;take away my privileges&quot;. When I called and questioned it, they actually advised me to &quot;raise your prices and give a discount for cash&quot;. How's that for brass ones?<BR><BR>I would just show up and hand them the credit card at the end of the meal. They'll accept it. They have no other choice. Just smile, remain pleasant and insistent. Point out that there's no sign or notice on the menu.

Of course it is their right not to accept credit cards at all from anyone but if they accept credit cards in other instances, they should from a large group also. That is, accepting credit cards means they must build that 3% charge into their pricing just like they do overhead, wages, cost of food, etc. Assuming this is the case, they would in a way be charging you for something they are not giving you. If you choose to use cash or check, that is your decision but being barred from it just because you bring a large group seems a bit dishonest.

If you think about it, the restaurant should already be including the 3% in their prices as a cost of doing business. How many people use cash these days anyway? If the owner isn't recouping the 3% in his prices, I'd suggest he's probably not a very good businessman. <BR><BR>Alternatively, this may be a subtle way of trying to steer someone away from their establishment. By requesting cash, they assume you might look elsewhere. Perhaps they don't do a very good job with large groups or large groups are disruptive to the normal operations of the place.<BR>

I encountered this issue once with a large bill, as well. I called American Express, the card issuer, and reported the company. They send investigators out, and could yank the restaurant ability to use their card. Even if they don't, it will scare the restaurant and set them straight.<BR><BR>It is against the restaurant's agreement with the credit card co. to do as you said they have done. They are in breach of contract.

With so many people wanting to accumulate frequent flyer miles, I am surprised they would even bring it up.<BR><BR>I paid for my son's wedding rehearsal dinner with a credit card(significantly more than $1000) and had no touble at all.<BR><BR>Sounds like they could be having some financial problems and want the cash. <BR><BR> Is it a neighborhhod restaaurant or a chain.

Joan..that .21 charge is outrageous! Are there plenty of processors to choose from? Sounds as if there must not be. I agree, I don't believe you can selectively choose to accept a card for some charges but not others.<BR><BR>This isn't exactly on topic, but I had a new one this week. Nordstroms sent me my new card to replace the one we currently use and the new one was no longer the store's card, but a Nordstrom Visa!! I carefully cut it into little pieces. One Visa is enough thank you. Then you have Neimans who will accept ONLY their store card, no others, for credit transactions. It's getting to be such a racket isn't it?

Olive, I can't believe Neimans only accepting their card. Sears tried that with Discover and got burned by doing it. I guess they don't learn.

Completely rediculous. The manager is a moron. He's willing to throw away $970 or more, to save $30??? I'm sure the owner would be interested in his manager's fiscal wisdom. I'd call and ask who the owner is, and try to contact them directly.

Are you ordering from the regular &quot;walkin&quot; menu (full-price), or getting &quot;banquet menu&quot; (discounted) prices? That's the only reason I could see not allowing credit cards - that the price is already discounted, but even that scenerio doesn't really justify refusing a $1000 sale. Maybe &quot;x&quot; is correct in that they just don't want a group of 25. Maybe this should be a signal for you to find a different place - one that values your business.

I agree that this is an outrageous practice. But I wouldn't make a big issue or try to force them to take the card. I can't imagine anything worse that starting out this wonderful evening with the management already resenting you and bearing a grudge. I'd try to find another place!

Haven't heard of this policy, but there's no way I'd hand cash to an establishment like this. Hope you can find another site.<BR>

&quot;Credit Card,&quot; I agree with the other posters who feel that this booking manager is way out of line to say that they won't accept your credit card.<BR><BR>I have found that it often works to tell them that you feel this is unfair (not to mention illegal) and that, if they persist, you'll simply cancel the reservation and they'll lose not just the $30, but the entire tab. In addition, tell her that you plan to call VISA and see what they have to say about this. I'd wager she'll change her tune in a big hurry; any businessperson with a brain in their head can see that the stupid $30 isn't worth the trouble you're about to cause for her and her employer.<BR>

I totally agree with you in principle, Lynn, but I'll still stand by my opinion of opting out of the place. As you say, &quot;the trouble you're about to cause. . .&quot; Let's face it the restaurant is not likely to treat you well when they've already pegged you as a troublemaker -- right as you may be about it.

American Expres is SO interested in hearing about these situations, they even include a prepaid post card in their bills, sometimes, asking about businesses who disrcourage customers from using this cc. (They have a higher transaction fee than MC and Visa). If you have an Am Ex, do tell them about this, they'll get on his case big time!<BR><BR>The other things to watch ofr when booking a grou like this is that most restaurants will automatically add on a gratuity for large group s(often just 6 or more). So be sure you don't pay this twice and you might even want to check in advance what percent they add on!

Hi Olive! ...yes, there actually are lots of processors. The thing is, their fee structures are so complicated - fees for corporate cc's, foreign cc's, per month fee, percentage fee, per-transaction fees... and of course, cancellation fees ranging from $100-300 (I'm a very small business so I get the highest fees), not to mention *application* fees in the same range...you really have to study it to find out if can get a better deal. And the salesmen are obnoxious. But hey I'll just raise my prices! Grrrrr!!!! (Our reputation has been built in part because of our low prices.) <BR><BR>I'm sure that's more than any consumer cares to know, but they're not the only ones getting screwed by the credit card companies. We love good ole cash! Credit, if you really love this restaurant (I'm betting it's not a corporate chain) consider bringing the cash.

Thanks to all who replied. To answer at least one question: This place solicits large groups, so the credit-card refusal is not a ploy to discourage business.<BR><BR>I called Visa (the CC co.) and they said if the place shows the Visa logo, they're supposed to accept Visa for all purchases. They asked if I wanted to lodge a complaint against the merchant, and I told them I would deal with the merchant first, telling them what Visa said, and see if that gets me anywhere.<BR><BR>Normally, I'd just go elsewhere, but this place offers convenience for some out-of-towners, and they food and service there are quite good. I'll try to get back to all of you on the outcome.<BR><BR>Thanks again.

&quot;Booking Manager&quot;...sounds like a self-imposed title.If she is the BM,then the place at least will accept a group.Meaning the kitchen,etc., can handle that size order.Most places I've heard of are more concerned that a set gratuity--15%--be INCLUDED with the tab.Rather than using a credit card.And a restaurant taking a personal check??From what I have seen that too is a thing of the past.If it ever WAS a thing.I agree...look elsewhere.There's bound to be a restaurant that will welcome you with open arms.<BR>Jason

Olive Oyl, not to turn this into a financial chat room, but for the sake of accuracy, Sears problems with the Discover card actually had very little to do with their retail stores and more to do with the fact that their credit underwriting was flawed and the card wasn't used as a primary card by most holders. Sears ultimately changed their policy and now accepts other cards. But, almost half of its big ticket sales are done on the Sears card and Sears card usage in the store still exceeds 3rd party cards. Wal-Mart/Target and not Discover have been bigger problems for them.<BR><BR>In terms of Neiman, they have a very upscale core group of loyal clients. They offer a much higher level of service with their card than any 3rd party card can offer.

Retailer...thanks for the info, but that wasn't me talking about Sears. Actually it was &quot;me&quot; LOL...Who's on first? Never mind...just look back up to the post following mine.<BR><BR>We have a Neiman's card and while the store itself offers service beyond the level of most, I don't find any service from their card that we don't get elsewhere. In fact, the simple act of attempting to change our address was a major undertaking resulting in bills going every which way but to us!! To Neiman's credit, if you find yourself in the store without your card, any of the sales staff can do a quick look up of your number and charges can be made whether or not the card is in hand. *That* is sevice!<BR><BR>Joan...sounds as if they have you over a barrel both time-wise and cost effectiveness-wise. What percentage of your business do you think is credit? By the way...your smoked fish spread is yum!!

FYI- Neiman's takes AmEx as well as its own card

I was there just a couple of weeks ago with only my Visa and driver's license. They said they took only their store card, but could look up my Neiman's #, which they did, and I charged the item. They didn't mention AmEx, but neither would it have done me any good if they had! :&gt; We got rid of AmEx with its annual charge years ago.

I received this in the mail today &quot;Dear Ms. XXX, This is a reminder that your Sears Card is no longer valid. Please destroy it immediately. We've already sent your replacemnet card--the Sears Gold MasterCard. Please activate it by caling.....&quot;<BR><BR>Yep, no more Sears card:( after all these years. Of course I've been using my own MasterCard for milage!

An era is ovur. Now how the heck am i gonna buy my bib overalls?

Back to the credit card issue. Lou Gerstner, when Chairman of American Express, was known for going into restaurants with their logo in the window, and if the card was refused at the moment of payment, or if it was suggested that ANOTHER card was preferencial, he would get up and scrape the AMEX decal off the window of the restaurant himself and pull their account. <BR><BR>This is some nutty policy and you should talk to the owner of the restaurant plus the credit card company plus select another restaurant.

Find another place. Anyone who is ready to split such hairs over a $1000 bill is either arrogant or stupid. I don't think you'd enjoy your evening even if you got it worked out. You've wasted too much time and effort already. Go where you're appreciated and welcomed.

Just to add to the &quot;off topic&quot; part of the thread :)<BR><BR>In Canada, a few years back, Esso, a very large gas retailer, up and cancelled their cards. Got a notice one day with the monthly bill that this would be the last one....as of ???? date the card is cancelled!! No explanation, no anything!<BR><BR>I called, got the run around and very rude responses, so I called Esso corporate offices, was told their &quot;third party&quot; copmany was dropping them, (which is who I had been speaking with I guess) and they were left in the lurch but would be coming out with a new card soon. Lo and behold, got an Esso Visa card &quot;application&quot; in the mail, sent it back, and I dont buy gas from them anymore either :))!<BR><BR>Sometimes the arrogance of these large retailers amazes me, although I know it may not have been there fault, as a faithful consumer of one company for many years, operating 3 vehicles, with an average monthly gas bill over $800, I was ticked off....and to read that the &quot;initial&quot; limit on the card would be a maximum of $500, well, needless to say, we buy our gas somewhere else now.

The restaurant manager is totally Goofy. Find the Owner of the restaurant and tell him he lost 25 customers permenantly because of the manager's stupidity.<BR><BR>Please tell us the name of this Restaurant so we can give them a personal call.

This is unbelievable. I would not hesitate to find another restaurant. If you make a point in &quot;forcing&quot; them to accept your credit card, they will recent you upon your arrival and will most likely spit in your food. Some business establishments seem to forget that they need us, we don't need them.

I don't agree with this, but based on several people I've spoken with in the hotel/restaurant/catering industry, it is not that unusual for catering/banquet outfits associated with restaurants/hotels who accept credit cards to not accept credit cards for group reservations. Apparently in addition to the normal transaction fee, some credit card companies charge an additional fee based on going over certain dollar thresholds and there is a growing trend of people disputing charges for these large gatherings. It seems like b .s. to me, but no one I spoke with in the industry about this was really surprised

If you do decide to go ahead and force the issue and not report them, I would be suspicious about the food quality. I don't really want to elaborate but you have no control over what is happening in the kitchen. BTW, I had this very same incident last saturday at a Versace store in Germany. I attempted to purchase a umbrella that was on sale for 25 euro. I whipped out my trusty Visa card and attempted to pay. The cashier very rudely pointed to a sign in German, that stated minimum purchase is 25 euro or more to use a credit card. She told me that I had to spend 26 euro or more. I told her that it is illegal for businesses to charge a minimum amount on credit card purchases. This arrogant cashier then had the nerve to tell me &quot;This is Versace, we can do whatever we want&quot;. I told her to tell it to Visa, MasterCard and AMerican Express. As I plan on writing to all three of them, via www.planetfeedback.com and yes, these companys want to know who is violating their contractual obligations. My final comment as I left the umbrella on the counter was &quot;You can drop the attitude as you only work in a store, this is not a job that requires a Harvard degree&quot;. The sales lady was British so she understood every word that was spoken. She looked dumbfounded and then attempted to apologize about it being a long day and I told her &quot;Tell that to your corporate office&quot;. I already have my letter written and ready to post and I also sent one to the Versace corporate headquarters in Milan, informing them of the rude behaviour of their store staff and the illegal practice credit card fraud. This is just greed on the part of businesses and ignorance on the part of many consumers. BTW, I have had my Neimans charge for years and they used to take their charge and Amex. It may have changed since then. As for looking up your account number with your drivers license, Saks and Barneys will also do this for customers. Good luck with your dinner.

You go MH! There is nothing so annoying as an arrogant store clerk. Reminds me of an episode of ABFAB where the pompous clerk is ignoring Patsy and she's yelling &quot;Oy oy, shopgirl, some help here&quot;

It is an incorrect assumption to beleive that an establishment must accept a card for all purchases. A company can set minimums, as was the case with Versace. However, they must post a sign, as was the case in Germany. A company can negotiate specific contract terms with the credit card companies. <BR><BR>The obnoxious response from the sales clerk was inappropriate. However, that is a separate issue from a policy of minimum card usage.

Thanks, ABFAB is where I originally heard the line, it is the episode where Edie is trying to spend all her money on art. The shop girl was really rude and as she left the store, she said &quot;you can drop the attitude,you only work in a shop&quot;. Not an original thought but it definetely gave the arrogant clerk something to think about. I am going to post the incident on www.planetfeedback.com under the title &quot;This is Versace and we can do whatever we want&quot;. Have a nice long weekend. MH

Nina, another great store clerk scene was the one in Pretty Woman when Julia Roberts goes back to the store that snubbed her and the uppity sales clerk is told--you work on commission? BIG mistake.

Could we now know which restaurant and where all this debate is about...I don't think you owe them a thing and I, for one, am curious since we often book large groups.

Report that restaurant to Visa/Mastercard and American Express.<BR><BR>Companies CANNOT require either minimum or maximum payments for those using credit cards, at least not with Visa/Mastercard. VMC will take away their ability to accept their cards. I just sat on hold for about 15 minutes to discuss another situation with them (I handle some credit card transactions for my company), and instead of playing music for people on hold, they list their policies.

Tons of restaurants in NYC don't take credit cards. I'm never shocked, as they always say so up front, and will usually let one of the party run to the nearest ATM if they're short.