Advice on how/what to pack for 15 day trip to alpine countries
 

Greetings, Folks
I am preparing for a 15 day trip to alpine countries in Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Italy). The problem is that I have never been on a trip of this length before and I'm not sure how/what to pack. I have a month to decide what to throw in the duffle bag. Surely, I don't need 15 different outfits, but how many pairs of pants and blouses should I take? How many dresses/skirts? I will be attending a concert in Vienna so I know I have to take at least one nice outfit.

I'm ashamed to ask these questions but I am not a seasoned traveler, and fear I will over stuff my bag. Any other advice on packing would be more than appreciated.
Thank you and cheers!
Katrina

Easy answer: two days before you leave check the ten day weather forecasts and dress for that weather. If you plan on doing laundry, take 4-6 days worth of clothes and if you aren't planning on doing laundry, take enough clothes to last you 16 days.

Thanks, Sparkchaser. I never thought about doing laundry and that is a good idea. The longest I've ever been on a trip was 14 days and that was 10 years ago. My luggage was so heavy I could barely manage it. I'm trying real hard to avoid that this time around.
Cheers...

Definitely plan to do laundry. I do it in the bathroom sink. If you have no experience with packing light you might find my packing list helpful: http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...take-part-one/ or try Rick Steves' packing advice in "Europe through the Back Door" or http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/pack-light.htm

thursdaysd that is a great backing list! My problem is that I have always been a "just in case" packer, meaning I will back something just in case I need it. It's good to have a packing list like yours as a guide.

Cheers...
ps I enjoyed your pics of Vienna.

Don't think of it as "outfits for 15 days," think of individual pieces that will work well and are versatile. You only need 1 dress-up outfit, for example, just wear it multiple times. And outer layers don't need washed in only two weeks or wear. You only need 1 sweater (for example) not 5 in different colors. Think function.

My other best packing tip is in the planning. Start laying out everything you are considering in a separate place so you can really think through which are important. I'd aim for something like 3 pair of pants, and 6 tops, 1 each of outer layers.

Most important thing to me always is shoes/boots, really make sure those are comfortable and will work for you.

Well I can't advise on what to pack from the information you have provided wantgelato. Unlike others who appear to have a crystal ball as to what you will need, I would need to know what you plan to do.

Since it is 'alpine countries' the first thing that comes to my mind is are you planning to do any/some/a lot of hiking, for example. That will obviously have an impact on what you pack.

Doesn't matter what you plan to do you still need a shirt, pants, shoes, jacket. Sure if hiking or doing specialty activity, then added consideration for that.

My advice for packing no matter destination, activity, time of year is to think layers. I always bring a shell jacket with me that is both wind and waterproof. Light and medium tops can be layered underneath as needed for the temperature.

A good pair of walking shoes is also a must. These don't have to be running shoes but can be if you prefer. I have a pair of Keen Mary Jane style shoes that are really comfortable that I can wear all day long walking and not hurt my feet.

Depending on the weather, I prefer to wear jeans, but also pack lighter pair of pants/shorts for hotter days.

I don't like doing laundry while I'm vacationing, so always bring enough socks/underwear to last me. I don't find it adds too much to my case to worry about.

Taking enough socks and underwear to avoid laundry only works on short trips.

<i>Taking enough socks and underwear to avoid laundry only works on short trips.</i>

True dat.

I take along old socks and old underwear and just retire them over the course of the trip.

Greetings, Folk
Thanks so much for your help and suggestions. Love them.
I'm sorry I wasn’t more specific about my trip in my initial post. Indeed, that makes a difference. Basically, my trip will be that of purely sightseeing and admiration of the little picturesque towns and villages. No hiking, but walking, boat rides, and train travel. In a nutshell it will go something like this:
5 days in GERMANY: Romantic Road drive to Rothenburg, explore castles in Munich, beer sampling (e.g. Hafbrauhaus), Black Forest, Rhine Falls, Rhine river cruise, Heidelberg).
4 days in AUSTRIA: Tour Salzburg (Mirabell Gardens, churchyards, Danube River), Vienna (city tour, Jewish quarters, Hofburg Palace, horse and carriage ride through countryside, costumed orchestra performance at concert hall), Innsbruck (Dolomites, the Austrian Tyrol, medieval city tour, Golden roof)
6 days in SWITZERLAND: St. Moritz (take pictures of lakes, forest, mountain peaks, explore quaint villages), Lugano (explore town, dinner boat cruise, relax), boat to Isola Bella then later board train to Zermatt (ride to Matterhorn), Bern (explore town, scenic walks and picturing taking).
I have clothes all over the bed now trying to see what goes with what. I’m tempted to take a pair of jeans, but need to be sure I give them enough time to dry after I wash them…don’t want to end up with soggy clothes in my duffle bag. 
Cheers…

Have you laid that out on a day-to-day basis, allowing for travel time? It looks very rushed to me. Is that actually a tour? Also, the Dolomites are in Italy, in Innsbruck you'll be seeing the Alps, unless you take a train into Italy. (The only Isola Bella I know about is in Italy too, but maybe you're taking a boat trip from Lugano?)

Greetings, thursdaysd
This is just an overzelous rough draft of things I'd like to see while I"m in the alpine region. When I did several months research on these countries, I discovered that the places I mentioned all have the spectacular scenery I am craving (lakes, quaint villages, alps, farms, forest,castles, ect..)I may not get to all of them, but this way, I at least have lots of options. Yes, my goal is to take the train to Italy as well as a boat trip from Lugano to Isola Bell. I just want to see and do as much as possible in those 15 days because I don't know when I"ll be have this opportunity again.
Cheers...

<but need to be sure I give them enough time to dry after I wash them…don’t want to end up with soggy clothes in my duffle bag>

You don't need to wash jeans on a 2 week trip. Just keep on wearing them (lol).

Plus I would never wash jeans in the sink. If you need to wash clothes just find the laundry service or laundry mat in a town. Sink washing only works for single lightweight items.

"I just want to see and do as much as possible in those 15 days"

I suggest you think about what that actually means wantgelato. The word 'much' is not synonymous with the word 'many'. The way to see as 'much as possible is to spend time IN places, not in BETWEEN places.

For example, take your '6 days' IN Switzerland. Assuming you travel to St. Moritz within the 4 days you are allowing for Austria, then day 1 (of 6) is IN St. Moritz. Day 2 is a day trip(?) around the area to see 'quaint villages' (read up on trompe l'oeil in the area. Here is a trip report someone did on TWO WEEKS in the Engadine area. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rip-report.cfm
The writer appears to have liked Sils Maria as a base as I would also suggest over St. Moritz itself actually.
So on to day 3 when you move to Lugano, oops most of that day lost to moving. Day 4 IN Lugano, but wait, no, on boat to Isolo or no, spend the day on the train to Italy and back instead. Day 5, have to rush on to Zermatt, arrive in time to see the Matterhorn before dinner and bed. Day 6, rush on to Bern. Quick run around the arcades with luck.
Leaving from/to where the next day?

So just how much time will actually be spent IN places vs. moving wantgelato? Way to much moving in my opinion. I would never try to cover St. Moritz and Zermatt in one trip to Switzerland unless I had a week for each area. To add in Lugano is madness.

In travel, less is always more. Move less, see/do more. So you need to decide just what you mean by 'as much as possible' wantgelato. Does much mean tick of the names on a list or does it mean get as much quality experience as possible in the time available? They are totally opposite goals. What someone saw and did in 2 weeks (link above) in one area (the Engadine) and what you will see/do in 1 day are worlds apart.

As for jeans, leave them at home or do not plan to wash them.

I'm going to guess you have decided to buy a rail pass of some kind. I'm further going to guess that having done so you 'want to get your money's worth' which goes along with 'to see as much as possible'.

The thing with rail passes is that they have a tendency to make people move more often in order to 'get their money's worth'. That's a bad thing.

Moving only a few times, point to point tickets can often be as cheap as a pass. If a pass does make economic sense then a pass that offers for example 5 days in a 30 days period vs. a full 30 day unlimited pass often makes more sense. Less pressure to move. But even then, someone who initially planned 4 moving days is likely to to say, 'hmm, I've paid for 5 days, I should use that 5th day' and then add another move, further reducing their time IN places by a day.

I do not see an arrival and departure day in your plan. So I presume there is actually 17 days including those.

Using the Rule of 3s which says, never spend less than 3 full days/4 nights in a place unless it is just an overnight stop between A and B, that would suggest that you plan on no more than 3 places plus 3 day trips from 1 or more of those 3 bases. Compare that to how many different places you plan to actually sleep in. Compare the difference in moving days.

This person asked for help with their packing.

Greetings,

I have decided to leave the jeans at home and instead go for light pants/crops. I'll share my packing list with you once I've narrowed it down. This way, you can let me know if it's enough/too much. Again, great tips folks—much appreciated.

Improviser: What you wrote makes a lot of sense. I'm sure I'll get a reality check after I get to Munich on how much I can really see/do in those measly 15 days. Yes, my goal was to purchase a rail pass (boy, you seasoned travelers are good), but being that I am so flexible (it's easy because I'm doing this by myself), I won't be disappointed if I don't get the chance to see everything I thought I'd be able to see in that length of time. In other words, The Dolomites, Lugano, Isola Bella, ect...may have to wait 'till the next trip.

Congratulations suze on your ability to state the obvious.

However, sometimes what people don't ask is as, or more important, than what they do ask.

If someone asks for directions to the edge of a cliff, I generally tend to ask, 'why do you want to know?', rather than just answering the question asked.

Want gelato, again, "how much I can really see/do in those measly 15 days" depends on how you interpret the word 'much'. It is not syonymous with the word 'many'.

Travel can be as simple or as complicated as someone chooses to make it. My suggestion is to keep it simple. To do that all you have to do is go to A; spend as much time as you need to see/do all that interests you there. When you have done that and NOT before, move on to B. Repeat the process until either your time or money runs out. Go home.

No one ever gets to everywhere and sees/does everything there is to see/do. The question is did you get the most possible out of each day in terms of whatever matters to you. Whether you visit 10 places or 2, is not important. HOW you use your time is what matters.

I pretty much always just pack for a week and do laundry.

Some things I wash out in the sink - panties, thin tops like tanks or tees, silk long undies if I am travelling in a cold climate, etc. If we will be someplace for a little while, I will wash out larger things since they will have a chance to dry. Otherwise, I either take to a laundry mat to wash and dry or I send them out and have someone else do it.

In some countries having laundry sent out is cheap, in others not so much. In Prague we had laundry sent out for less than it cost us to wash the same amount ourselves in a Munich laundry mat. It all just depends on how much time I have versus how much money :)

<i>Taking enough socks and underwear to avoid laundry only works on short trips.</i>

The OPs trip is 15 days. I take enough socks/underwear for a trip that length. If I was going for 6 months, or even 4 weeks I'd probably do laundry. But not for two weeks.

To me 15 days is a short trip, but I would still only take about four pairs of socks and undies. if you were going for six months I certainly hope you'd do laundry, lol!

Greetings, Folks
Ok, here’s what I plan on packing for my 15 day trip:
CLOTHES:
6 tops (casual wear; 3 long sleeves and 3 short)
4 pairs of pants (cottons and crop type)
1 black pull over sweater
1 skirt
2 undershirts/camisoles (black and tan)
1 dressier outfit (slacks and top) for evening wear to elegant restaurants/concert in Vienna
3 scarves
4 pairs of socks (includes one pair of trouser socks, 1 pair of thick socks, and 2 pairs of basic white socks)
6 pairs of undies
Light weight jacket with hood (lots of pockets)
1 pair of gloves
Umbrella
Walking shoes with rubber soles (tried and tested!)
1 pair of dressier shoes (low heel)
2 pairs of PJs (both with tops and bottoms)
1 pair of slippers
OTHER STUFF:
Small bottles of shampoo, body wash, Dove soap (I prefer to use my own brand)
Travel pack (toothpaste, mouthwash, brush)
3 face towels
Deodorant
Lady’s necessities (make up bag, liners, hair brush)
Band-aids; rubbing alcohol
Cold medicine/Pepto Bismol
Antibacterial wipes
Travel pack of Kleenex
ITEMS IN CARRY-ON BAG:
Travel belt (for passport, flight/hotel stuff, euros, credit cards)
Travel pillow
Camera (extra memory card and batteries)
Small tape record (I prefer to record as I go; don’t want to miss anything special)
IPAD (to watch movies on 12 hour flight and load pictures)
Converter
Cell phone

Did I over or under pack? Does anything else need to go in, or come out? Thank you for your help. This really means a lot to me.
Cheers…
Katrina

Are you counting what you will wear on the plane?

I'm asking only because if you aren't then (for example) you've got 6 pair of pants total because 1 you are wearing, 4 casual and 1 dressy you are packing. 6 pants + 1 skirt is WAY too many "bottoms" imo.

You don't need 3 scarves. 1-2 is plenty. I would make do with only 1 pair of PJs. I would use disposable face wipes not take 3 washcloths.

I would add a pair of sneakers because I wouldn't want to wear the same walking shoe every day for 2 weeks (even if they are tried and true).

Besides that, looks well thoughtout ;-)

It all comes down to weight wantgelato and how much lifting, carrying of your 'duffel bag' you are likely to do.

If all you do is get off a plane, wheel your bag to a taxi and wheel it in to a hotel and elevator to your room, then it really doesn't matter much how much you take.

If you are likely to walk from a train station for half a mile to the hotel and carry your bag up 4 flights of stairs though, it does matter.

Personally, I usually travel with a small 29L backpack. The total weight including the pack itself that I usually carry does not exceed 5-7 kg./11-15 lbs. That means I don't care if I have to walk somewhere or not. Regardless of where I go or HOW I go, weight will not be a problem.

I'd say your list is comparable to the average tourist who thinks s/he is packing relatively light. It's not bad, it's not great. Provided you stick within the limits of HOW you can confortably deal with it though, it's fine.

Two pairs of heavy socks, they take longer to dry. No idea what trouser socks are. Which shoes are the white socks for?

WEAR your money belt (I assume that's what a travel belt is) after you clear security. You don't want to get robbed in the terminal (not so likely), or on your arrival (much more likely) nor have to leave that stuff behind if the plane crashes.

Three wash cloths and three scarves seems excessive. I don't need PJs or camisoles and don't bother with slippers. But none of those are likely to take up a lot of room. What's rubbing alcohol for? Note that you can use shampoo for washing in the sink, but you may want a universal sink plug (Google it).

I always have spare undies and top in my carry-on in case my checked bag doesn't make it. Also the infamous quart bag, ditto.

Looks like you're headed in the right direction!

Traveling light is useful for anyone who might be lifting their own luggage at any point in the trip where porters are not likely to be around.

I travel for 3-4 weeks at a go, overseas. I pack nearly the same for a week as for a month.

I take only 1-2 short sleeved tops and 2-3 long sleeved. I prefer long for sun protection and because they are more flexible (you can roll the sleeves up). The tissue-weight tees are great since they breathe but dry overnight and weigh nothing. I like to have one thin wool top or sweater (or long underwear top) that can be worn alone or as a layer. If I know it will be cold, I bring a polyfleece jacket or vest. The final layer is something waterproof.

For bottoms, I don't like cottons since they take too long to dry. If it is hot, I bring thin linen, if cool, then microfiber pants (some of them do not have that shiny, plasticky look anymore). Usually no more than 3 pair, including the one I wear. Plus a skirt.

Also, two pairs of Pjs? I usually bring a very thin gown, and when that's being laundered I use a t-shirt.

Instead of a skirt and a fancy outfit, make the skirt one that can work for both day and night.

I don't have a problem with bringing 3 scarves, I wear them every day and they also come in handy for other uses (like sun protection, belts or ties). Bring one that is a long, sturdy synthetic or cotton. I might bring more socks than 4 pair. Bring some of your old ones and toss them rather than launder.

I am not one who uses a washcloth...but I bring a small microfiber towel.

Instead of slippers, I bring high quality flip flops that can work as a pair of walking sandals or pool/shower shoes.

Sunglasses and hats!

Re the toiletries. Be ruthless. Do you really need soap and shower gel?

I do bring a few alcohol wipes for the odd nick or insect bite to prevent infection.

I also retire old clothing along the way, including the outfit I wear on the plane. Usually one pair of the pants goes along the way, as well as the short sleeved t-shirts which get replaced with new ones (if you will be shopping).

Wear your heaviest walking shoes on the plane, and pack the slippers or flip flops in your carryon.

Greetings, Folks
Thanks for the suggestions, you are awesome here. I have already started to change things around a bit (will post updated list when done), but to answer your questions:

SUZE: I meant to mention that I am not including travel time in those 15 days. Day 1 is spent en route. Day 2 to 16 is spent traveling in Europe. Day 17 is en route back home. Therefore, my clothes are for 15 days, and my goal was to wear the same thing on both flights (going and returning). On the plane, I’m wearing old sweats and a soft pullover shirt. But, as someone mentioned, I may throw them away when I get there, and just wear something already packed on my way back. I have a pair of slip on shoes with rubber soles that I can take as well. They are also good for walking and can also replace slippers.
I have one thick scarf for cooler evenings; the other two are just sheer scarves for accessorizing only, to change up an outfit. I promise they don’t take up much room.

IMPROVISOR: When I’m done packing, and actually close the bag, I will test it to see if I can handle it. The last thing I feel like doing is fighting with a large bag. The last time this happened, my then suitcase kept tipping over it was so heavy. This was years ago when I was younger and it was not fun asking strangers to help me pull my luggage from the conveyer belt.

THURSDAYSD: Yes, I will wear my money belt with the important documents inside at all time. One pair of the socks I’m taking is thick, just in case I need them (they can also be used for slippers; I don’t like for my feet to touch a cold bathroom tile floor). The other white socks are basic ones I buy in bulk—they are not very thick and normally worn with walking shoes or when I’m exercising. Trouser socks are kind of like knee highs but a little thicker. I prefer wearing them to stockings when wearing dressier pants because they don’t rip like knee highs do.

MLGB: I have an idea about the skirt. I may swap it for a nice sundress that can be covered with my sweater. This way, I won’t have to bring dressier pants and top for evening wear.

You are also right about the PJs. I think I’m going to be able to work this out. I also wanted to mention that when I travel, I don’t normally purchase clothes or heavy items. My preferred items are figurines to go in my china cabinet. If I decide to do a large purchase, say a coo coo clock, I will have it shipped back. Therefore, my goal is not to have a heavy luggage returning, either.
Cheers…

I forgot to mention that I always take alcohol wipes when I travel just in case I get bitten or something. As far as the soap and body wash, I have very dry skin and like to keep it moist and healthy to prevent itching. I'm not sure if my skin would do well with the stuff in the hotels.
Cheers...

Toiletries are the weight killer for women.

Some of my tricks
A small tube of petroleum jelly goes along way for chapped lips and dry skin. I do bring a few lipsticks, ones that are half used, since I am always losing them.

Instead body wash I bring a travel size bar of a gentle soap (like Aveda or Neutrogena). You might like some of the hotel soaps in Europe, too.

You might consider shopping for hair stuff when you arrive. Schwarzkopf is a good brand. Just bring a few days worth of emergency shampoo and conditioner, and a hat!

I carry Cortisone 10 for insect bites. Even though I'm female I don't wear makeup, which saves both weight and cost... I carry a bar of Dove, and use Pantene 2-in-1 shampoo. I decant liquids into plastic bottles and resupply on the road (not needed for a 15 day trip). But I'm planning a six night car trip, and am thinking of just shoving the bottles into a bag for a change! I may pack heavy for once...

<On the plane, I’m wearing old sweats and a soft pullover shirt. >

I wouldn't have a separate plane outfit, that are extra pieces you don't really need during the trip. Or if you really want the "old sweats" along, then I would sleep in them & eliminate the 2 pairs of PJs.

I do take all my regular toiletries from home, but I decant everything into 1 or 2 oz. plastic containers. You really don't need that much shampoo for a 2 week trip. Test this out at home and only bring along just barely enough for what you need. I am very generous in the amount of different things I take (shampoo, conditioner, styling gel, face wash, etc.) but I can get that all into the 1 qt. ziplock bag allowed for carry-on by downsizing everything.

ps- I only take a skirt in summer when I'm wearing sandals. In cool weather a skirt or dress typically requires different footwear, so to me just isn't worth it. I stick with all pants, both for every day and 'dressy'.

I always make sure that whatever I wear on the plane is something I will wear again during the trip - I don't want to carry clothes around for the entire trip that I will only wear coming and going. Also I always choose something that looks reasonably presentable - I don't like to show up places looking like a hobo :) Usually it is the most comfortable pair of pants I will be taking, a tee or tank, and a sweater or fleece - and a scarf to use as a blanket.

Greetings, Folks
Ok…Here I go again.

CLOTHES:
6 tops (3 casual wear short sleeve tops and 3 casual wear long sleeve shirts that can be dressed up with accessories and scarves, when needed)
4 pairs of pants (includes one black pair of pants that can be worn for evening wear)
1 black pull over sweater
2 undershirts/camisoles (black and tan to go under shirts if needed on cool evenings)
3 scarves (I thick for warmth, 2 for “show” only)
4 pairs of socks (includes one pair of neutral colored trouser socks (can be worn with sandals), 1 pair of thick socks for warmth, and 2 pairs of basic white socks)
1 extra large T-shirt (for sleeping)
6 pairs of undies; 2 bras
Light weight jacket with hood (lots of pockets)
1 pair of gloves
Umbrella
Hat
Walking shoes with rubber soles (tried and tested!)
Slip on wedged sandals (low heel; good for walking and can be worn as evening wear; also tried and tested)
flip flops (for when exiting shower)
OTHER STUFF:
shampoo and body wash (both transferred to small plastic bottles; I already purchased the little bottles); travel sized Dove soap
Travel pack (toothpaste, mouthwash, brush)
Deodorant (small travel size)
Lady’s necessities (small makeup bag, liners, hair brush)
Band-aids; rubbing alcohol packs
Cold medicine/Pepto Bismol
Antibacterial wipes
Travel pack of Kleenex
ITEMS IN CARRY-ON BAG:
Travel belt (for passport, flight/hotel stuff, euros, credit cards)
Travel pillow
Camera (extra memory card and batteries)
Small tape record (I prefer to record as I go; don’t want to miss anything special)
IPAD (to watch movies on 12 hour flight and load pictures)
Converter
Cell phone
CHANGES MADE WERE:
No skirt
No PJs, just a T shirt (is one T-shirt enough for sleeping or should I take an extra one?)
I took away the dress up pants (slacks) and kept a basic pair of black pants that can be dressed up with one of the shirts and the sandals.
No slippers, just flip flops
Added hat
Took stuff out of makeup bag
No washcloths
Added sandals with wedge
How did I do this time around?
Cheers….

november_moon your post tickled me. Yes, I can imagine how it sounded when I said I was wearing "old sweats," and pull over shirt. It's actually a matching sweat set and I've had it for a long time, so even though I say "old" they still look ok and are in pretty good shape--and comfortable. To be honest, my goal was to ditch them while on vacation.

I like the idea of using a scarf as a blanket.
Cheers...:-)

Sure that's better.

I don't bother with a travel pillow.

I don't travel with Ipad, I just watch whatever entertainment is offered by the airline or read (but can see why you might want one).

You mention the money belt being "in your carry on" with your passport, money, credit cards. You want that on your person, or at least don't leave it in your bag, like going to the restroom on the plane, etc. Hotel reservations and paperwork are fine to just have in a folder (I use a plastic sleeve like you'd put in a 3-ring binder) in the bag, as they have no monetary value.

I've never used a money belt in all my years of travel. I've never had anything stolen and that includes while travelling and staying in some pretty dodgy areas.

I read comments in travel forums about pickpockets, scam artists, purse snatchers on motorcyles, etc. and wonder where they all have been when I've been in their neighbourhoods.

The travellers best defense against theft is common sense. But then if 'common sense' were truly 'common' (that is most people had it), the phrase 'common sense' would have no reason to exist. LOL