I think we live in a different world. I wouldn't let them do that. Why can't they stay at one or two hotels in nice cities rather than going around to various places they don't know. If I were a parent, I'd pay a little for the comfort of having them in a hotel. Staying at Florence, Venice, and Cannes would be nice and could be done with limited problems,

Wow, I wasn't expecting such an overwhelming response...

Before anyone else comments though, there's one thing I want to set straight. One of the travelers I described in the initial post is myself, the [future] 17 year old. I apologize for being misleading, but I wanted an adult's perspective on this, not an adult-to-child response. People's attitudes towards teenagers (and highschool students in general) can be pretty negative, and I was hoping to avoid that. I'm sorry for misleading you all.

"I wonder what that target amount is..."

I've been watching airfares on travelocity/expedia/etc. to get an idea, factored in the costs of good backpacks, clothes, shoes, hostels, toiletries, passports, etc. plus about $250 reserve money. But who knows, the euro keeps rising against the dollar, things may change.

"Not in that order, I hope."

Definitely not. Paris'll probably be first, it costs the least to fly into, at least for mainland Europe. :)

"oh, katteaux, you have to come back and tell us more - have they traveled, are they somewhat savvy? are they apt to plan most of their trip ahead of time, look into good hostels/pensions/etc."

We've both traveled some, if not a lot. U was in Croatia visiting family less than a year ago, and did some traveling on her own then.

I've never been outside the US, but I have been in most of the Western states, and taken a road trip from Portland to Long Island and spent three weeks there - without parents, but with an older sister (23 YO). I pretty much live in LA, so I don't think the enormity and differences of Europe will be too shocking. I do plan on researching laws and customs in the countries we'll visit (which haven't been decided yet).

"Anyone who would take the advice of posters on this forum to decide this kind of question is at best a bad parent and at worst criminally irresponsible."

Even if I was a parent - I would not base my decision solely on this. These are people who travel, people with experience - an excellent resource to get a feel for the atmosphere, but not the ultimate authority on whether or not my hypothetical children would go to Europe. Outside opinions are always useful :)

Why, Katteaux, what an interesting thread you started, and I was very amused to read that you are only 15 or 16 now. You seem very mature. Save your money, do your research, be careful and have a great trip!

And it seems many of us assumed you were the mother....funny I don't remember any thinking you were the father, or other adult responsible for them...as you said "if they were your responsbility"......or least of all one of the teens !!!

So you got an earful !! But probably a lot of advice that would help you plan better - you are right, posters on this board have a lot to offer - and whiel opinions aren't everything, they are food for thought.

I remember when I was having my first baby and my mother said to me - 'read all the books you can, the magazines, ask people who are experienced parents their ideas, and you will throw some ideas out and others will ring true to you and you will choose for yourself" --- I find that to be true of many things -

so read your guide books, search the web, post on travel pages to learn about hostels/pensions/inexpensive hotels that other teens have used b/c we parents can recommend the ones they liked too - my son has stayed in many hostels and pensions and has his list of favorties as do others on this board from their kids travels - and then put it all together yourself and have a wonderful, safe, fun time of your life.

The only problem I see here is that one of them is under the legal age of majority (in most jurisdictions). That may be a problem in situations where decisions have to be made promptly (because of the delays in finding someone who can legally consent to things on behalf of a minor). Other than that, I don't see any particular dangers. And of course, if they are <i>over</i> 18, they don't need your permission to go, anyway.

One possible solution is to give the 18-year-old legal authority to consent for the 17-year-old.

Katteaux, good luck to you. It sounds like you are researching your trip well, and that you might understand the unpredictability of travel. I encourage you to wear a money belt with emergency phone numbers, a photocopy of your passport, and your medical information. I think everyone should wear one, regardless of age! You might want to think about a cell phone, too, as someone suggested. I know your generation :) is computer-savvy. Why not set up a web-based e-mail account, so you can check in with friends and family. I think your parents would appreciate that. Also, know where you can get some emergency cash, even if you just end up calling home and having some wired to you. Happy trails....

you sound capable, ready, willing, and able to plan and have a wonderful trip. i mentioned this above but fear it is lost in the jibberish. please do go over to The Lonely Planet's website and the Thorn Tree forum where you will get valuable information from your peers, rather than ridiculous lectures from parents who aren't even your own!!!

Katteaux: You seem like an articulate, thoughtful young person who would keep her wits about her in Europe.

If I had to make a comparison -- and I don't but I will -- I would say you handled this exchange with more aplomb and greater maturity than some of the adult posters....

Hi K,

&gt;I've been watching airfares ...plus about $250 reserve money.&lt;

You might want to budget for food. :)

As noted above, since you will be under 18, your TC should have power of attorney in case of medical decisions or other emergencies.

It would be a good idea if you agreed with your parents to phone or email daily at a given time.

I hope that you have a great trip.

((I))

Just out of interest I looked up the legal age for babysitters in the UK.

A police site said&quot; There is no legal age, but common sense and the law dictates that you leave your children with a responsible person, capable of taking care of them properly. It is therefore advisable that babysitters are over 16 years of age&quot;

When my children were young, a group of mothers formed a club where you baby-sat for tokens.
I think that this is pretty common in the UK.

I agree with Oldie about employing 18 year old au pairs. Americans seem to think that these girls are cheap servants.
Au pair means as an equal. In Europe the girl is considered more as a elder daughter who looks after the children and does some light housework in return for pocket money.

Oh well done Katteaux. You stirred this up beautifully. With an attitude like that you'll have a ball in Europe. Go for it.

I think howian had a good idea. Katteaux, the IDEA of backpacking around Europe may be exciting. The reality may be that it's inconvenient and exhausting. Why not go for 3 weeks, have your itinerary planned out in advance, stay in some moderately priced hostels and bed and breakfasts and be civilized about it? I think this will remove some of the potential for problems, your parents will know where you are each night, etc. etc. Just something to consider...

Yes, I did it by myself when I was 18!

I also think the idea of a preplanned itinerary is a very good idea. Doing research in advance and carefully selecting your destinations before you go will make for a much more satisfying trip. Many people here will tell you that planning is half the fun!

A well planned itinerary can really make the most of your time. Knowing in advance what time the &quot;once a day&quot; trains run, and planning around that, saves a lot of time. Knowing where you are going to stay each night also saves a lot of stress.

I don't think that this means you have to up your budget though. There is nothing wrong with staying in hostels, or carrying your clothes in a backpack. Hostels allow for very inexpensive travel, especially when you take advantage of kitchens. It also allows you to meet others doing the same thing! And backpacks are great if you are moving around a lot, relying on public transit or walking to and from train stations.

Rick Steves' son spent last summer &quot;backpacking&quot; around Europe with a friend. You will probably be able to find a link to his blog on the Rick Steves web site. There were all sorts of notes there discussing itinerary planning, packing, etc. You may find it useful to take a look!

Hi K,

Also take a look at the Thorntree Forum at www.lonelyplanet.com.

It is for backpacker types.

((I))

Best of luck with the trip planning-- I think you'd be okay honestly. You sound pretty savvy (and level headed).

I traveled alone last year for weeks at a time- though I was 22, I remember feeling pretty old at several of the hostels--- I remember there being a very large number of young people, though less from the US.

Honestly, it's just cool to hear that you want to save up for a big trip to Europe, instead of a lame spring break trip to Cancun and the like... which in my opinion is much more dangerous considering the large amounts of binge drinking ..

I echo other posters though when it comes to the length of your trip. I really think 3 weeks would be best. That's a long enough time for a first time trip. You could hit some highlights, especially if you take advantage of a rail card. If you were going to go longer, maybe you'd want to stay in some cities for several days. I don't understand the whole blitz tour thing... that wears you down really quickly.

Besides the other youth oriented guides, like lonely planet and lets go, do searches on amazon for hostel guides. I used one when traveling through Ireland and it gave me a good sense of the hostels (is it a party scene? quiet? cramped?). You and your friend could likely share a private room at a hostel and it wouldn't cost that much more. Overall, I think hostels are safer and more fun than hotels for young people and young solo travelers. I felt the least secure when I stayed by myself in a hotel-- which I only did once-- there is safety in numbers and I met a lot of other young people in hostels.

Just a few things to think of (off the top of my head):
In every city you go to, be aware of another place to stay in case something should happen with your reservation (which you should have in advance in most cities).

Make it a point not to arrive into a new city after dark if possible.

Buy an ISIC student card for discounts on museums. I easily paid for the card ( I believe it's $20) after just visiting Vienna. Here is the website: http://www.istc.org/sisp/index.htm

Be sure to scan your plane tickets and passport. Save the file to your computer and then send yourself (to a yahoo or hotmail account or whatever) the attachments. If something was to happen, you would have a copy. (You should also bring paper copies by the way).

And finally, I'd be sure that both of you have a credit card and a debit card. Just to be safe, call both your bank and your credit card company to tell them of your traveling planes. My capital one card was stopped while I was in Europe because they saw that I made purchases in unusual places. I don't know how many credit card companies do this, but it doesn't hurt to alert them ahead of time.

Good luck-- sorry for the long post.

A buddy of mine and I did it after our freshman years in college. I was 19 and he was 18. Had a good time and learned how to get along in foreign lands. However, we usually stayed in penziones and once stayed in a hostel. That was in 1979. I remember quite a few European teens backpacking at the time. The only thing I would be wary about is that there have been some crime problems in certain urban ghettoes of which I am sure you have noticed in the news.

What a fascinating exchange! I think it clearly shows the differences there amongst parents attitudes and their beliefs of what their children do when they are not around. (For any parent who honestly thinks there child has good oversight while they are in college, please keep deluding yourself. Most RAs etc do NOT pay attention to whats going on.

As a 29 y/o who traveled to Europe as a high school foreign exchange student and did do the much crazier Cancun thing as a 17 y/o, I would greatly encourage you to do it -- if you save a lot of money (always budget more than you think you need) and do lots of research. I am taking my 17 y/o sister to Italy this March and took her with me alone to Europe when she was 12. She would go in a heartbeat with her friends to Europe this summer, if only she had the money. While I know my parents would have reservations, they would probably let her go - depending on who she went with.

If your parents do not allow you to go (and I honestly believe that no parent can tell an 18 year old what to do - but everyone's situation is different), explore other international travel opportunities. Perhaps there is a language immersion program to attend, a foreign exchange summer program, a volunteer program etc...that would satisfy your parents rules,etc and would allow you the opportunity to have an amazing international experience.

Good luck!