I can think of a bunch of things that American teenagers regularly do that are more dangerous than going to Europe:

* drive cars
* drive in a car with another teenager (this is statistically the most dangerous, as compared to a teenager driving alone)
* have boyfriends
* join the military
* work in less-than-safe environments (nightshift at 7/11 or a gas station, construction, logging, etc.)
* consume illegal drugs

rbnwdln, maybe it's an American thing? maybe you are sheltered or the families you know simply more cautious?

you may not believe it but it's most certainly true that loads of people this age backpack thru Europe on their own. some for much longer than a month or two.

I did it, in 1974 and two years ago, so did my niece. Hanl summed my experience up pretty well.

I don't want to make judgements for other people, but if provided with information and asked my opinion, I'll give it. I'm not condescending in the least and if Katteuax disagrees, that's wholly up to her.

Yes. All my friends did this--I hadn't saved up the $$, so I didn't get to go. :(

Did take one of those school "If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium" trips, went to Mexico with a friend while a junior in high school, to Hawaii with 2 friends while a senior, and left home for college at age 16. If these girls are as responsible as you say they are, I can't see why they shouldn't go.

Certainly talk to them quite seriously about your concerns.

To say there is no supervision in college is a vast generalization. My college has 5000 undergrads and they are not living in a void, and they aren't moving from place to place either. I see what goes on, and there is more supervision than you think.

Even my children who attended large public schools always had RA's and people who knew where they were, or if they were eating, sick etc. And it wasn't or isn't just one other person who "knows" either.

My daughter was $$$ self-sufficient and traveled within the USA at 17 for florist conferences etc, alone. One of my sons went across the country at 16 alone for his father's business and to represent our family at a funeral.

But there is/was context. It isn't just about how responsible they are either. We've had three kids from my Chicago neighborhood that were steet smart etc. who have never come home from trips. There are people who prey upon young people in bus and train stations, and there is a slavery network.

I don't know of any 18 year old USA kids in 2006 that are financially independent and who don't rely on their parents for living expenses, insurances, food - the full boat. Therefore of course, you can tell them NO. If you know of any, then I guess it would be different.

I know I would never have signed any son or my daughter into the military early. In my estimation you need to be 21. That's how I feel, and I don't care what anyone else does either.

Two girls this age?? I probably would not be crazy about the idea at all. And I am not a clinging Mom. There is independence and there is fool hardiness. This isn't 1974, it's 2006.

oh, katteaux, you have to come back and tell us more - have they traveled, are they somewhat savvy? are they apt to plan most of their trip ahead of time, look into good hostels/pensions/etc.

Maybe I should have been more precise in my answer when I let my high school senior go during spring vacation before graduation: we have traveled frequently since he was young, he'd navigated public transportation many times in big cities with and without me, he and his friends had somewhat of a plan of the major sites they wanted to include/ and yes, they drank wine with dinner and beer in cafes at night, etc. -

I was going under the assumption you would have them print out the info on each country from www.state.gov and read the info about safety, laws, etc. and also info from the web and good guide books.

I assumed they would be mature enough to get area info when they arrived, talk to the people at hostels/pensions about the city at night, where to avoid or not, what time public transportation ended, if there were certain lines that snake through bad areas at night or day, have an atm card/emergency funds available/not carry too much cash on them/ use sense when approaching atm's just as at home, not go with strangers, etc - and follow precautions.

I also assumed if they lost luggage, missed a train, they could handle it or know where to ask for assistance.

When my son went with his buddies, there were ones who went back to their pension at 1 or 2am and those who stayed out till 3am, and those who got up at 9am to make side trips, go to special sites, and those who slept in waiting for the next party night, - but as I said, I trusted his instincts and his abilities.

You know your kids. If you think a year at college is going to make them more savvy, my opinion would be to start helping them become savvy now. Some colleges may be different, but my experiences have been with one having graduated and one mid way through, that college does not provide the extremely safe environment some parents think it does. And there are parties galore with no adults and no RA's, and no restrictions and plenty of places for them to get in all sorts of trouble.

As my daughter told me during her first week at college - mom, you should see some of the kids here - the kids who have never been anywhere or away from home or any freedoms - some of them are going wild just to go wild because they can - they've been on a bender since they got here. I've never seen so many kids losing it in the bathrooms.

She also said she never saw so many kids who couldn't figure out transportation, making simple travel plans, or couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. the colleges don't teach them that - life does.

There were/are plenty of kids at both my kids schools running the gamut of getting slaps on the wrist or 'citations' for drinking, walking around with open containers, etc, etc to getting put on probation or kicked out. it's everywhere.

You know them - only you can decide. But you can prepare them and help them arm themselves with the knowledge and advice and helping them see the parameters to stay within - and still have some fun - and be as safe as any of us can be anywhere.

Whenever my kids traveled at that age and throughout college, they would plan the trip running everything by me for a 'second pair of eyes' - that doesn't mean a mother doesn't worry - when don't we worry? but it's part of letting go. They learn by doing.

Katteaux,

Anyone who would take the advice of posters on this forum to decide this kind of question is at best a bad parent and at worst criminally irresponsible.

And anyone giving advice on this kind of question who themselves have no children is at best a jerk and at worst criminally insane.

It's also dopey to compare US 17/18 YO's travelling around the US with US 17/18 YO's travelling around Europe. Experienced scammers and pickpockets can easily spot tourists and can generlly spot vulnerable tourists. If nothing else clothing is a giveaway, which wouldn't necessarily be the case in the US.

I am now 20 years old and am spending my second year living abroad. I moved to Switzerland as an au pair straight out of highschool, a few weeks after my 18th birthday. I didn't know a soul, didn't speak any German and had never been away from home for more than 2 weeks in my life. In the ten months that I spent there, I travelled by myself, relying on trains and staying in hostels, visiting mostly big cities all over Western Europe. There were a few road bumps along the way, some trains were missed, some hostels that I'd rather not remember, some unwanted attention, a few very lost moments, but I always managed to figure it out and returned unharmed from every trip having experienced something that I could never have found at home.

After spending these 10 months in Europe, I returned home to Canada to attend my first year of University, and I found that although most of my friends were all a year ahead of me in their education, I had learnt more in my time abroad then any amount of classes ever could have taught them. The experience changed me a lot and I was somewhat dissapointed to return home and see that not many others had.

That was one of the many reasons why I decided to spend another year here, and I have not regretted it for a minute. I have done plenty more backpacking on my own since being back with very few problems. Not only have I been fortunate enough to see some incredible things, I have met so many great people that have truly touched and inspired me. I have no doubt that I have developed a much keener sense of myself and what is important to me in life by taking this time to really rely on myself, push my comfort zone and open my eyes to an entire world that I never knew before.

If these girls do their research, use common sense and have their wits about them, they really shouldn't have many problems. There is a great backpacking community on the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree where they can find lots of tips on the hostels to stay at and those to avoid, along with many other valuable pieces of information. I have met a really wide variety of people while backpacking, and while there have been a few notable exceptions, most of the young people I have met are more than prepared for the journey. And from how you describe these two young ladies, I can't see them fitting into that exception. I'm also fairly confident that the few travellers who stood out as the exceptions would have gotten themselves into just as much trouble at home.

Of course my parents were concerned in sending their 18 year old abroad for the first time, and I know that they still always breathe a sigh of relief when I make it home from one of my trips, but they have been nonetheless supportive and encouraging of my endeavors, knowing that I am benefiting greatly from them. Although I'm sure that you are only concerned for the safety of your daughter, I would strongly encourage you to let her go.

Obviously it's impoossible to comment on young people one doesn't know but I must admit I'm rather shocked by some of the comments here.

I'm another one of these Brits who went on a gap year abroad. AT 18 I set off, with another girl, to Namibia as a volunteer...it was 1986 and lets just say the country wasn't the emerging tourist destination it is today! South African occupation and war with Angola etc.

During the year we backpacked through SA and Zimbabwe and hitchiked as we went. We learnt to use and trust our own intuition and judgement which has served me much better than any fear and worry imposed by others.

My brother went on a cyling holiday with friends to Holland at 16 and interrailing in Europe at 18. By 19 he was backpacking in India on his own.

However, one difference between Europeans and American teenagers is that Europeans have often already travelled abroad without their parents, both on school trips or langauge exchanges. Additionally they are often given more freedom in the society for example lower drinking ages etc.

All in all the question is do you think it's better to trust your judgement or be ruled by other people's judgement? When I look back on my experience I know it was hard for my parents to let me go, but I respect them for putting my needs above their own desires/fears. At the time it never occured to me they'd say no, because they'd raised me to be independent.

It is strange about differences.

For example when I was in the US I heard about somebody suing a 14 year old babysitter when the child she was minding had an accident. In the UK it would be illegal to have a babysitter that young.

Again, American families will put an unqualified "nanny" or rather au pair in sole charge of their small children.

Perhaps we are more careful with our little ones and more ready to trust young adults.

Dear Intrepid1
>Oh, please....the "Aruba thing.."...

A young person was kidnapped, raped and murdered. Whether she was a "model" or not is quite irrelevant, unless you mean that "she got what she deserved".

((I))

oldie, it's quite common in the US and Canada to have 12-year-olds babysitting. I certainly did when that young (both my siblings and others). Are you saying that doesn't occur in the UK? When parents go out, they don't get a neighborhood teenager to watch their kids?

In response to what I've read above, I've certainly heard and read of local kids falling prey to drug dealers and pimps, but sadly that seems to happen within a few miles of home as often as not. Or the teenager runs away with a Greyhound bus ticket or hitchhiking, and things go south from there as they run out of money and options. Just go down to Vancouver's downtown east side, and see as many sad examples as you can stomach. I recently read that pimps and customers were targeting local girls at the Grade 6 or 7 level who were native (Indian) and went to a school in a non-affluent neighborhood. A teenager who has a well-planned trip to Europe is not at risk for this, at least much less than someone at home who starts hanging out with the wrong crowd.

On a positive note there was a murder in the US every 32.6 minutes in 2004

The murder rate dropped 3.3 percent to 5.5 per 100,000 people. :-(

I too am shocked by how the discourse on this thread has degenerated (e.g., calling people "jerks," "bad parents," or "criminally insane" or "criminally irresponsible"). I thought the questions and comments quite interesting for awhile. I do have one question: would this be an issue if Katteaux had asked about two men, as opposed to two women?

Past experience: I did it when I was 19 years old. I had my trusty "Let's Go" book with me and my best friend (who was 17). However, we only went traveling for two weeks. Eight weeks is a mighty long time.

We didn't have internet or sms (texting) back then. We didn't even have credit cards. Nowadays, it's easy to contact home for money or advice.

Have them make an itinerary and keep in touch with them. If they are as mature and organised as you have posted, they will stick with it and everything should be fine.

P.S. (to continue my above post)
I am a female. I knew not to get into any dangerous situations and we did our best to avoid them. We used common sense and tried to be street smart. Worked for us.

Absolutely! My wife and I have talked to dozens of kids in Italy who were backpacking individually or in small groups. They were having a ball and an experience that they will talk about forever. One young lady spend 6 weeks backpacking by herself all over Italy and came back the next year and did the same thing.

I'd be nervous (what mother wouldn't?!) but yes, I'd let them.

And I'd be wicked jealous.

rbnwdln -

Not sure what colleges your kids are going to - or will go to - but I'm not aware of any that have guidance or supervision of any sort. (Yes- they offer various services if a student wants them - but it's all strictly voluntary and very few use them - they're too busy going to classes and having fun.)

They certainly didn;t have any supervision when I went 30 years ago: co-ed dorms with the ability to entertain whoever you wanted whenever you wanted in your room. The only "official" was a Residence Assistance paid a small stipend and given a single room to do a little paperwork and make sure the outer doors were locked at night to keep out non-students - who all had keys. They had to be sophomores at least and 18. My roommate's boyfriend was one and she spent 3 years living in his room - which was great since it gave me a single for the regular cost. (The school wouldn't put male and female students in the same room - only the same building.

My step daughters are both in college now and it hasn;t changed at all.

Frankly - your "child" could move in and then not be seen for weeks - and no one would know - or care - unless a friend or family came to look for them.

And 18 is legally an adult - no one has the right to conrol their actions anyway. And if your kid goes to college at 17 - as I did - parents usually have to absolve the school of any responsibility to act in loco parentis by signing a form emancipating the student.

"It would be shallow and perhaps wrong to give advice about how to treat kids if you don't even have kids."

Gee, what about all those priests, guidance counselors. teachers, etc., who don"t have kids...?

Like saying you have to have cancer to know it is bad...