Living in France, I think I understand what Coquelicot is talking about. There is no denying that the USA is huge, and hugely varied, with a wealth of different landscapes and cultures and foods and traditions, and all that those entail. BUT, it is such a young country. It's a baby. And yes, I know about the original settlers, but let's face it - most people who travel around the USA aren't in search of Native American culture. It's a terribly young culture, and there is no way it can have the depth that almost any European has and displays without even trying to flaunt it. The market in my town has been in existence every single Tuesday for 700 years. The chapel that's a 5-minute walk from my house was built in the 12th century. My "modern, bourgeois" house was built in 1860, using 14th-century beams from a nearby farmhouse. We still have a lavoir in the village, where women centuries ago used to gather to scrub their linens in the streams of water that rush down from the springs in the hillside. People have been documented living on my land for 30,000 years, and trust me, that has an impact on anyone who lives or visits here. If I dig a hole to plant a bush I may very well unearth a silex from 20,000 years ago, and I have. There is a sense of "ancientness" and awe that I think appeals to a lot of travelers. I don't think travelers in young countries like the USA and Australia can experience those same feelings. Which is not to say that their experiences are diminished, but they are different. Every day I walk down paths that have been trodden for thousands of generations of humans, and that fact is never lost on me. I think visitors who come here, and to Le Mont St-Michel and the Loire Valley and the beaches of Normandie, the caves of Lascaux, the shores of the Mediterranean, and everywhere else in France are trying to connect with history, a whole lot of history.
So, I "get" that it's not a matter of whether the USA offers a huge variety of "interesting" landscapes or cultures - it most certainly does. But let's be honest, it's all in the framework of a country that isn't anywhere near as mature as the countries of Europe (and elsewhere) and just doesn't have the depth, the pith, the wealth of historical offerings. I see it as the USA offering a huge number of differing experiences, but all on the same rather limited plane, whereas Europe offers the same, with magnificent multi-plane depth. I'm not an experienced Asian traveler, but I imagine the same is true there. And Africa, where I have traveled often - same thing.
So, I "get" that it's not a matter of whether the USA offers a huge variety of "interesting" landscapes or cultures - it most certainly does. But let's be honest, it's all in the framework of a country that isn't anywhere near as mature as the countries of Europe (and elsewhere) and just doesn't have the depth, the pith, the wealth of historical offerings. I see it as the USA offering a huge number of differing experiences, but all on the same rather limited plane, whereas Europe offers the same, with magnificent multi-plane depth. I'm not an experienced Asian traveler, but I imagine the same is true there. And Africa, where I have traveled often - same thing.
StC just to look at similar numbers in my town. The market was granted in 1273 so only going for 747 years though rumour has it that it did close one week during the Black Death. The Church has been re-decorated a few times but the first Christian church on this site was consecrated in the second centuary so roughly 1800 years of worship, though it appears to have been built on a place of worship so probably much longer than that. Structurally it only dates from the 750s.
My friends on Orkney live with a hole in the ground in their back garden that dates back to the 5000 BC but that is another story
When I travel on the continent I tend to only book a room while in breakfast of the preceding hotel so unlikely to change this form of travel.
My friends on Orkney live with a hole in the ground in their back garden that dates back to the 5000 BC but that is another story
When I travel on the continent I tend to only book a room while in breakfast of the preceding hotel so unlikely to change this form of travel.
I have to concede of course that the US lacks the multilayered history which draws so many of us to Europe and beyond. The Europeans arrived in the Americas at the tail end of the Middle Ages and the beginnings of the Renaissance, and there are traces to be found, particularly in the Southwest. Even more interesting are the remains of ancient Native American cultures and the still-surviving Pueblos in the area. In fact, given the extraordinary beauty of the region and its unique history, I find the Southwest to be among the most rewarding destinations in the US.
I agree wholeheartedly with what StCirq and bilboburgler say, the history and culture is what draws millions to Europe, I know that’s why we go every year. The US is magnificent, but a very young country and the whole experience is completely different. I suppose it’s the same with Australia and New Zealand, though I’m yet to go there. Actually, even in Europe the Scandinavian countries aren’t quite the same as their southern neighbors, at least IMO.
In terms of not travelling, after wandering around the world (more than 60 countries) for 20 or so years, I was blocked from almost all travel for family reasons for the following 10 years. It was totally frustrating, but even though the "family reasons" ended 3 years ago, I have done very little travel since then. I have not been particularly unhappy about it -- I still have vivid memories of all of the places I have been. I flew completely around the world on holidays no fewer than 3 times, just because I could. I was planning on starting major travel again this year, but I seem to have hit a new snag. Or the planet has.
I had to bring my mother back from the United States due to Alzheimer's and I took care of her in a nursing home for 10 years. Since it was only 400 meters from my apartment, it was out of the question for me not to go and see her every day, particularly for the first 2 years because she was so incredibly unhappy there. (Just to prove that I am not a monster, back when my parents had full possession of their faculties, they told me "if necessary, put me in a nursing home no matter what I say.")
It was a painful 10 years, but since I never forgot all of the sacrifices that my mother had made for me as a child, it seemed only normal for me to give back what I had received.
It was a painful 10 years, but since I never forgot all of the sacrifices that my mother had made for me as a child, it seemed only normal for me to give back what I had received.
kerouac, you have spoken about your mother earlier and when you mentioned not being able to travel for 10 years I figured this must have been the reason. Parents do a lot for their children, who unfortunately don’t really appreciate this once they grow up. From what you say you have been the son any mom would have wanted...
kerouac, I can't imagine anyone ever thinking of you as a monster. You've certainly been a brick in our journey to France-hood, and we've enjoyed every encounter with you that life has allowed to happen. And yes, we followed your selfless attention to your mother and you must be both freed and sad about her passing. You did all the right things.
Looking forward to getting to Paris once again and seeing you. It's always a highlight of our trip to the capital. You have opened our eyes to so many corners of Paris that we wouldn't have known about and that now occupy most of our time there.
Looking forward to getting to Paris once again and seeing you. It's always a highlight of our trip to the capital. You have opened our eyes to so many corners of Paris that we wouldn't have known about and that now occupy most of our time there.
Cheska, my holiday to Dijon and Locarno became a road trip to Port Lincoln.
Anyone who Googles Whyalla will understand why we ate our lunch and got out of there pronto.
Charming villages are sorely lacking here and despite the incredible landscapes of Australia, much of it requires a car and an ability to drive through endless scrub for days at a time.
We don’t have the public transport infrastructure here, so all our trips involve city breaks (not my thing) or road trips.
My preferences in travel (always Europe) is smaller towns, ease of transport, historical architecture, scenic walking trails (forests, river, mountains, lakes). I choose bases where I can bus to a village or cablecar and then walk, usually with a lovely mountain hut to lunch in on the way. It will always be Europe for me.
I think I could compromise in the short term with trips to Tasmania and New Zealand, if that becomes possible.
Anyone who Googles Whyalla will understand why we ate our lunch and got out of there pronto.
Charming villages are sorely lacking here and despite the incredible landscapes of Australia, much of it requires a car and an ability to drive through endless scrub for days at a time.
We don’t have the public transport infrastructure here, so all our trips involve city breaks (not my thing) or road trips.
My preferences in travel (always Europe) is smaller towns, ease of transport, historical architecture, scenic walking trails (forests, river, mountains, lakes). I choose bases where I can bus to a village or cablecar and then walk, usually with a lovely mountain hut to lunch in on the way. It will always be Europe for me.
I think I could compromise in the short term with trips to Tasmania and New Zealand, if that becomes possible.
Adelaidean oh my. Whyalla, what can I say. I did laugh though. We haven’t got to Orange yet, and possibly won’t go anywhere in the next few weeks until things settle down a bit.
kerouac. I can’t imagine anyone thinking you are a monster,
kerouac. I can’t imagine anyone thinking you are a monster,
Adelaidean, you said it well. If and when we can finally think about travelling overseas, it will be back to France for us for all those reasons.
Cheska, we have often talked about Orange and when the weather comes up in winter, we always say we should be camping there now. Not!!
We are enjoying travelling within Queensland at the moment, but you are correct. Hundreds of kilometres of nothing often. One of the things we love about France is there is a often a surprise around the corner.
And not even the Tour to have some vicarious travel.
Cheska, we have often talked about Orange and when the weather comes up in winter, we always say we should be camping there now. Not!!
We are enjoying travelling within Queensland at the moment, but you are correct. Hundreds of kilometres of nothing often. One of the things we love about France is there is a often a surprise around the corner.
And not even the Tour to have some vicarious travel.
A European friend of mine has just toured a part of northern Germany for 2 weeks. I was struck by the differences of her travel with that of Australia. 2 weeks travel in Oz is totally different (read Rhon's trip report, mentioned above). No spectacular churches (except in cities) abbeys, monasteries, palaces - all the things that make Europe fascinating for us.
However, Australia is a young country only in European terms. It is the oldest continent, and has been inhabited for over 60,000 years. It's just that our ancient edifices don't look the same as those in Europe. Our distances are so much greater, too. Even though our country is much the same size as the lower 48 US states, our population is so much smaller and the centre is so arid, it's all hugely different.
Cheska - I loved your France reports, but go and see Orange - it's a nice town, with wineries and caves and an interesting tourist office and museum.
However, Australia is a young country only in European terms. It is the oldest continent, and has been inhabited for over 60,000 years. It's just that our ancient edifices don't look the same as those in Europe. Our distances are so much greater, too. Even though our country is much the same size as the lower 48 US states, our population is so much smaller and the centre is so arid, it's all hugely different.
Cheska - I loved your France reports, but go and see Orange - it's a nice town, with wineries and caves and an interesting tourist office and museum.
Oh sure, if we're talking about Europe for being older, richer with more history, there's no doubt about that. I thought people meant that the geography, terrain, variety of landscape, natural wonders, and the culture and heritage in various regions of the USA was all similar one to the next.
kerouac, don't beat yourself up, it doesn't help and we all struggle with helping people who brought us up needing our help in their last years. I know I used to beat myself up daily and it took a long time to let go. I did what I thought was right at the time and maybe it was or maybe it wasn't but chewing it over is a waste of time.
Fra Diavolo, our visit to the cliff palace at Mesa Verde is my favorite memory of all our US travels.
When my husband and I travel we look for something different from what we can find near home. Here’s what I meant by “not different enough.” Across the US, we all drive the same cars. There are the same commercial strips at the edge of every largish town with the same fast-food places, strip malls, chain motels, dollar stores, and big box stores with giant parking lots. You could be in upstate New York or rural North Carolina.
You can drive through a new residential neighborhood and see how similar the street layouts and homes are across the US. If you stay in a new-to-you motel, it’s going to seem very familiar. Starbucks shops are everywhere, the national chain restaurants are everywhere.
A few springs ago we visited absolutely beautiful Charleston SC, a wonderful destination. The drive there and back was a little discouraging because we encountered all of the above.
Contrast that with arriving in France. Right away you hear a different language. Cars are smaller, roads are smaller, road signage is different. Buildings are based on local stone, so you’ll notice the difference when you go through a village in a limestone or granite or red shale region. Roof angles change as you go north or south.
The supermarkets are different. Eggs aren’t refrigerated, there will be 70 feet worth of chocolate bars on display, and the cheese selection is endless.
There are commercial strips in France, but they are confined to zones. Ag zones are protected. No farmer sells off his road frontage for a new dollar store with a big parking lot. When you leave a town, you’re in the scenic countryside.
All these little differences are stimulating.
I’m not downgrading what the US has to offer, but in my opinion you have to slog through a lot of visual pollution to reach a worthwhile destination.
I know that Europeans love to visit the US. They don’t mind the things that discourage me about driving through the US. They appreciate what they see here because it’s different from their home (and also because I think they see the US through rose-colored glasses). One young French guy thought Harrisburg PA was charming and wondered why it wasn’t a major destination. First I chuckled to myself, then I figured out why he had that impression.
When my husband and I travel we look for something different from what we can find near home. Here’s what I meant by “not different enough.” Across the US, we all drive the same cars. There are the same commercial strips at the edge of every largish town with the same fast-food places, strip malls, chain motels, dollar stores, and big box stores with giant parking lots. You could be in upstate New York or rural North Carolina.
You can drive through a new residential neighborhood and see how similar the street layouts and homes are across the US. If you stay in a new-to-you motel, it’s going to seem very familiar. Starbucks shops are everywhere, the national chain restaurants are everywhere.
A few springs ago we visited absolutely beautiful Charleston SC, a wonderful destination. The drive there and back was a little discouraging because we encountered all of the above.
Contrast that with arriving in France. Right away you hear a different language. Cars are smaller, roads are smaller, road signage is different. Buildings are based on local stone, so you’ll notice the difference when you go through a village in a limestone or granite or red shale region. Roof angles change as you go north or south.
The supermarkets are different. Eggs aren’t refrigerated, there will be 70 feet worth of chocolate bars on display, and the cheese selection is endless.
There are commercial strips in France, but they are confined to zones. Ag zones are protected. No farmer sells off his road frontage for a new dollar store with a big parking lot. When you leave a town, you’re in the scenic countryside.
All these little differences are stimulating.
I’m not downgrading what the US has to offer, but in my opinion you have to slog through a lot of visual pollution to reach a worthwhile destination.
I know that Europeans love to visit the US. They don’t mind the things that discourage me about driving through the US. They appreciate what they see here because it’s different from their home (and also because I think they see the US through rose-colored glasses). One young French guy thought Harrisburg PA was charming and wondered why it wasn’t a major destination. First I chuckled to myself, then I figured out why he had that impression.
I used to have to visit the US for business, it bored and terrified me. The cops with their guns, the people with their guns and the endless positivity, which often lead to failure. "we can do that" oops, time and time again the failure because businesses I worked with didn't do the work required. Airports, identikit hotels restaurants that never closed, or served their main meal at 5pm, the pricing (includes tax, not includes tax, includes tip, not includes tip) the poverty, the grafitti.
Still Canada was nice.
Sorry didn't mean to do an anti US rant, but that was work.
Holidays, I spent a month in SF and found the great imigrant Korean and Vietnamese communities, the wine country (a bit Disneyfied, but i managed to get away from the marketing with a few special visits) nice people and the area around the Bridge was interesting from a technical point of view, nice little book shops etc.
Still Canada was nice.
Sorry didn't mean to do an anti US rant, but that was work.
Holidays, I spent a month in SF and found the great imigrant Korean and Vietnamese communities, the wine country (a bit Disneyfied, but i managed to get away from the marketing with a few special visits) nice people and the area around the Bridge was interesting from a technical point of view, nice little book shops etc.
*The cops with their guns, the people with their guns
I don't know where you visited, but I've lived in the US all my life (six different states, two different coasts) and have never seen that.
*you have to slog through a lot of visual pollution to reach a worthwhile destination.
I'm speechless. I truly don't know what to say to that. Maybe I've always just lived in exceptionally nice places.
I don't know where you visited, but I've lived in the US all my life (six different states, two different coasts) and have never seen that.
*you have to slog through a lot of visual pollution to reach a worthwhile destination.
I'm speechless. I truly don't know what to say to that. Maybe I've always just lived in exceptionally nice places.
That is a good explanation of your thoughts, Coquelicot. Not having been to the US, I cannot comment on your thoughts there. However I can understand and totally agree with what you mean about France.
We have great holidays at home and are about to set out on another road trip in the bush within our state. But it is the differences we come across in France that are stimulating as you said. Just hearing another language for a start. The shops and supermarkets are different. The architecture is different. There is a lot of variety among the different regions. We can have a three course lunch with wine and coffee for less than a main course and a drink here, and forget the complimentary bread. LOL.
I suppose it is a bit about familiarity with places. We have regular trips we have been doing for years to visit my elderly parents, now just my 90 year old mother. Two of our three children and four grandchildren live interstate, each over 1000 kms drive. It is difficult to get excited about the actual drive anymore. Nothing changes. We feel we know every bump in the road. To get anywhere new takes a long time. We do not even feel comfortable travelling interstate in case our state borders close again and we have to quarantine at our own expense when we return.
Each day brings us closer to an end, I hope.
Dreaming of a gite in France somewhere. Anywhere.
We have great holidays at home and are about to set out on another road trip in the bush within our state. But it is the differences we come across in France that are stimulating as you said. Just hearing another language for a start. The shops and supermarkets are different. The architecture is different. There is a lot of variety among the different regions. We can have a three course lunch with wine and coffee for less than a main course and a drink here, and forget the complimentary bread. LOL.
I suppose it is a bit about familiarity with places. We have regular trips we have been doing for years to visit my elderly parents, now just my 90 year old mother. Two of our three children and four grandchildren live interstate, each over 1000 kms drive. It is difficult to get excited about the actual drive anymore. Nothing changes. We feel we know every bump in the road. To get anywhere new takes a long time. We do not even feel comfortable travelling interstate in case our state borders close again and we have to quarantine at our own expense when we return.
Each day brings us closer to an end, I hope.
Dreaming of a gite in France somewhere. Anywhere.
