Travelgourmet

Some questions and clarifications.

When I say that the British are great travellers, I mean that they travel a lot, not that they always behave well when travelling. I think that as a nation we travel more than the French and less than the Australians. A lot of it has to do with our climate and poor but expensive food. We can improve on both, and safely sample the exotic, by taking a short boat or plane ride.

I seem to remember reading once that more British have passports than have driving licences, while more Americans have guns than have passports. My American brother-in-law has spoken of the excitement of senior people in his office when they get their first passport. Theses forums see the constant anxiety of American travellers about foreign money and what they should wear. I cannot think of a British site where people exhibit similar concerns.

Was the rifling through of your bags when you arrived or when you left? If when you left, where were you travelling? Most of the extra security takes place when you are travelling to a particular destination. I have not had my luggage checked on arrival for years, although my mother-in-law occasionally still talks about the dog which sniffed round the car at the ferry port at Portsmouth when we returned from France once.

What we can agree on is the desirability of open borders. Britain is currently going through one of its xenophobic phases, with immigration being seen as the great threat. It is not pretty.

"I seem to remember reading once that more British have passports than have driving licences, while more Americans have guns than have passports. My American brother-in-law has spoken of the excitement of senior people in his office when they get their first passport. Theses forums see the constant anxiety of American travellers about foreign money and what they should wear. I cannot think of a British site where people exhibit similar concerns."

Why would you bring this up??? You are proving the point that there is a bias with you about Americans.

I would never say anything like that about people from another country.

Clifton: Just to be clear, this isn't my opinion, just offering up a counterpoint. Frankly, I think the "inconsiderate tourist" cliche is more than a little overblown.

As a long term reader of these boards I can say there IS a genuine anxiety on the part of a lot of the Americans about coming here (especially to the conntinent).

Look at the number of "what to wear" "how do I fit in" type posts.

You simply won't see those sorts of posts from this side of the atlantic as we couldn't care less about fitting in (although most would prefer not to be offensive) and the idea that any Englishman is going to take instruction in what to wear abroad is simply laughable. We all know that an england footbal top and union jack shorts are worn in all foreign parts.

It may well be that entering America is relatively painless. But that's not how it's perceived here. We think it's a fag. Some brits think it's a fag worth putting up with - some of us don't.

"We think it's a fag"

Chumley - do you realise what you are saying?

He does, he's just trying to sound like Berty Wooster.

Chartley: Points taken, but a couple of things to consider:

1) Regarding the passport thing. Do bear in mind the relative size of the US. Things like beach escapes don't require a passport like they do in the UK (which may explain your feeling about the French). Indeed, until very recently, Americans could travel to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean without a passport. Simply put, they just aren't a necessity for an American, unless you have the financial means to travel pretty widely.

2) As for the anxiety over what to wear... Well, my single biggest pet peeve is the American inferiority complex toward Europe. To my mind, there is a considerable element that seems to think Europeans are more cultured, better dressed, smarter, etc than Americans. A lot of it is well-meaning, but still silly. I don't claim to understand it.

3) The rifling through the bags was upon arrival. Like I said, I was never told why, but I suspect my name and Boston point of origin had a lot to do with it - this was during the mid-90s.

4) Finally, London, at least, is not a culinary backwater any more. Had a couple of great meals this weekend - Yming and Arbutus. And a lot of this is a testament to the diversity and openness that the UK has traditionally shown to a lot of foreign cultures. Like you, I hope that we don't see this stop.

As I recall, one of the favorite words in Britain seems to be "proper." And this from a bunch of folks who aren't clothing conscious and the least bit concerned about "fitting in."

Yeah, sure.

It doesn't mean that Dukey. Do you ever speak to any actual limeys?

Colmondley, most certainly proper, also kosher and pukka.

Proper means either authentic or appropriate in most contexts.

A proper breakfast.

We are famed (Along with the Jocks, Micks and Taffs) for being the sloppiest dressers in Europe.

proper

like audere went to a proper school

and flanneruk did not

that's how 'proper' is used

hopefully without adding to the negative tone...

I have found many Europeans don't realize that travel to Europe from the US is a much costlier and time-consuming enterprise than travel within Europe. This explains why many Americans, who often only have 2 weeks vacation time, don't go there often and may not have a passport and probably aren't fluent in another language besides English.

I personally don't worry about what to wear when traveling abroad having lived many years in NYC which somewhat mirrors typical European city attire, and having been privileged enough to travel alot my whole life, but I think if people care enough to ask about dressing "properly" that's just a sign of good manners. So let's not shoot them for it...

BTW, on arrival to most EU countries, I have to wait in a very long line with one very tired clerk while all the EUers fly through... I don't like it, but I'm not going to stay home because of it.

I don't have a single friend in America who owns a gun but probably everyone I know has a passport.

As much as I love many GBers, it is funny when someone from GB tries to blame the whole Iraq war on me personally as I am American. I want to say, "hey, your guy was in on this too!"

I just finished reading "1776" and had to laugh at many of the quotes by the English noblemen and military about the poor, uneducated, dirty, unappreciative, rebels in America. Gave me some delightful perspective on the current state of relations:)

Quite the converse, flanner and I went to proper schools whereas Chumley went to a paid establishment were the thick children of the wealthy have some hope of gaining a qualification.

Oi! Less of the thick! (and sadly less of the wealthy!)

I have so many O levels people think I have been in an open prison. (Which isn't all that far from the truth in all honesty)

willit: What you point out is what I call Rush Limbaugh journalism: Find some outragrous example, and pass it off as indicative of a large problem.

Sorry, I'm not buying.

Willit's probably gone home.

I also doubt if he knows who Rush Limbaugh is.

I wasn't selling anything.

It was an extreme example, but the perception among UK travelers is that it has become a more difficult, and more unpleasant experience to enter the USA. the "extreme" stories merely reinforce that view.

About 3 years ago a group of colleagues attended a scientific conference in Milwaukee. All four of them reported aggressive and confrontational attitudes at immigration. Two were detained and questioned for more than an hour.
These were both respected researchers in their field with not a hint of troublemaker about them.

When one of them, who has visited the US a dozen times in the last 25 years announces he will never go back, then it is something beyond "Limbaugh journalism".

But maybe it is this "hooting loon" response. Somebody doesn't agree that every single thing about the USA is better than every single thing anywhere else, so there must be something wrong with them.

Rush Limbaugh - Right wing cheerleader radio presenter - suffer(s/ed) from addiction to prescription drugs ?

I'm obnoxious and argumentative, not necessarily ignorant.

Willit

Didn't mean to be rude. I have seen his name bandied about and figured he was someone right wing in media, but had to check who he was.

Waring

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Is there a US equivalent to a Cabinet Minister?
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I think the closet comparison in the US to a cabinet minister would be department secretary (e.g. secretary of defense, secretary of education, etc.). I'm Canadian so am not sure, but I don't believe the secretaries are elected, but are appointed by the President from the "civilian population". Whereas cabinet ministers are appointed by the prime minister, but are chosen from amongst the elected MPs (usually from the PMs party, but don't have to be).

Somebody please correct if I'm wrong about the secretary thing.