UK friends, visit US now
 

This morning I was listening to an interview with a British economist. He is predicting that the pound will begin to fall against the dollar next year. The reasons he gives are that many of the same factors that have driven down the dollar, for example a poor balance of trade and overinflated housing prices, are present in the UK and will soon have their effects.

So, come on over - we'll be happy to see you!

We would if you would stop treating us all as potential terrorists.
See http://tinyurl.com/24llcd

This is a Minister of the Crown for crying out loud.
Can you imagine the howls of fury if we detained a US Senator in this way?

We wouldn't.

In the Land of Opportunity, there are no Muslim Senators.

While not quite a Senator, there is a Muslim Congressman from Minnesota.

Considering that only 0.6% (compared to 2.7% in the UK) of the US population described themselves as Muslim in the 2000 census, the representation isn't really out of line.

Snide comments are fine, flanneruk, but they only really work when they reveal a deeper truth. Throwing them out like grenades, diminishes the value of the ones that hit the mark, and makes you look uninformed when they don't, as in this case.

Yeah, and in the land of the Crown, even as Saudi Arabia pointed out just last week the Brits can't take care of business on the homeland security front, can't seem to deal with their ever-burgeoning terrorist problem (a mind-boggling 2,000 KNOWN terrorist suspects in England alone) thus causing a threat and danger to the entire WORLD-not to mention their own subjects-meanwhile, you continue to play your roulette games, unlike any other country in Europe, I might add.

Not ONLY that, but UK can't even undertake a review of their inadequate responses to terrorist acts, to see how poorly they responded in 2005 to the London bombings where over 50 people were killed, because, "it might not make our security services look good."

That, in itself, is a mind-boggling statement from your own former PM, and points to the very heart of what is wrong with this basket case of a nation-it can't really look at itself, where it is now, because it doesn't know really, who it is, and it doesn't WANT the world to see its inadequacies, moral, or otherwise.

Instead, it has to employ government PR folk to "spin" everything, and if a well-off British professional does something so incredibly monstrous, that could make the country as a whole look bad, so unbelieveable, and even, engage with other professionals in a conspiracy of silence on the subject, then, those nationals who are responsible have to have Government spinmeisters "assigned" to them as well, so they can fool the world into thinking they aren't really monsters, when they really are.

Amazing, really.

Ah the 63 year old teamster from Detroit is back.

Still as mad a ever I see.

Dear heart: I would prefer our security apparatus, as formed by 30+ years of fighting well organised, American funded and equipped, terrorists over the keystone cops you have over there.

Really - your Government is lying to you - the sky is not about to fall on your heads.

Governments lie? Thank heavens the UK has no such problems.

I see the that the press's tactic has worked. Highlight one outrageous story, and people will think it's the norm. Good to know that such a low-level tactic is effective somewhere besides the US.

>>> this would have taken two days out of [our] schedule. The US visa service ... will not use consulates outside London. This palaver of getting visas is mind-blowing.<<<

Also symphony orchestras are extra dangerous:

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...742626,00.html

Wow! Amazing how these threads take on a new tangential life. My aim was and is to extend an invitation to our friends in the UK to visit before the cost goes up. Hope that you come on over.

It's not so amazing. Say "US" to some UKers and you may as well wave a red flag in front of a bull on Viagra.

"While not quite a Senator, there is a Muslim Congressman from Minnesota."

Shahid Malik is higher up than the equivalent of a Senator.

Can't find the American equivalent, but he is part of the Government executive.

Not as high as Condoleeza, but closer to her post than to a Senator's.

<i>&lt;&lt;It's not so amazing. Say &quot;US&quot; to some UKers and you may as well wave a red flag in front of a bull on Viagra.&gt;&gt;</i>

Whereas the highly moderated tone of the missives from Gypsytravel [sic] aren’t in any way contentious?

I do wonder about Gypsytravel – she’s always there ready to wade in with her size 12 Rosa-Klebb stilettos against the British. I wonder what real (or more likely imagined) slight she once suffered at the hands of a Briton to so curdle her milk. Arrest and deportation? Barred entry? Turned downed by a British University? Fired from the Peoria offices of a British multinational? Or, more prosaically, a failed love affair perhaps?

Her Pavlovian response to the words Britain, England, London etc are quite amusing to behold. However, congratulations are in order for her valiant feat in overcoming her Caps Lock addiction – even if only temporarily.

Dr D.

It can be inherited.

I have a French friend who rales about the Queen, not having the Euro, bad food, crappy weather, stuck up accents and she has only ever been to London for three days.

I couldn't understand it, until I met her mother.....

Similarly you get rabid Anti-Americans who have never been there and barely met one.

&lt;&lt;It's not so amazing. Say &quot;US&quot; to some UKers and you may as well wave a red flag in front of a bull on Viagra.&gt;&gt;

I think there is some truth to this, but just because some feel this way does not mean that anything the US does is actually beyond reproach.

I feel that the original point was correct. I think the US has every right to bring in any measures it wishes to protect its borders.

While the current situation remains, and I am going to be treated like a criminal if I wish to visit and give up any right to any sort of privacy, then I shall excercise my right not to visit.

I note that Girlspytravel didn't wade in until the bulls-on-Viagra started the anti-US tone to the thread.

It seems to be a low-level debating trick to make an accusation and then, when someone responds, to then say, &quot;See, they're defensive and overly sensitive.&quot;

J_999_9 - We have had the odd disagreement, but you generally look at both sides of an arguement and can agree to differ.

girlspytravel, in her various incarnations, does appear to rabidly attack the UK at every oppurtunity before running away when asked to justify or provide facts to back up her often absurd statements.

I think Jossers point is mostly correct. If a minister in the government of one of the US's supposed closest allies cannot travel unmolested, what chance do the rest of us have ?

willit wrote: &quot;If a minister in the government of one of the US's supposed closest allies cannot travel unmolested, what chance do the rest of us have ?&quot;

I bet you know the answer.

&lt;have a French friend who rales about the Queen&gt;

well there is a lot to rale about with Queenie - and her royals - which should be a huge embarrassment to any thinking Brit.

As for British security apparatus the bs they fed Bushies during the run up to the war - enough said

sexing up, etc.

and the mistaken detaining of the Brit cabinet guy or whatever pales to the dead Brazilian slain by security personel in that London tube station

Is there a US equivalent to a Cabinet Minister?

Only 20 people, each in charge of a Government Department, who with the Prime Minister make up the Government.

Yes it's called the Cabinet with secretaries of State, Defense, Labor and Attorney General, etc. probably about 20 or so.

How much fuss would the UK pulling up a US secretary of state cause?

&quot;Shahid Malik is higher up than the equivalent of a Senator.

Can't find the American equivalent, but he is part of the Government executive.

Not as high as Condoleeza, but closer to her post than to a Senator's.&quot;

Fair enough. Wasn't really trying to minimize the plight of the guy, I was just responding to what I viewed as a silly, unnecessary, and ill-informed comment.

As for Mr. Malik's role relative to a US Congressman or Senator, I think you may be discounting the Congressman and Senators a bit too much. Indeed, Mr. Malik's elected office is basically analogous to a Congressman. His position within the government doesn't have the same parallel in the US, due to the separation of the executive from the legislative bodies. Indeed, the position he holds would, in the US, probably fall under the purveiw of USAID, which is currently managed by a career government servant.

Personally, I do think that requiring pre-arranged visas for visitors from Britain as well as other parts of world isn't what I'd like to see going on. Many, many countries have multiple lists with which visitors will have which entry requirements.

I am curious though if those who wouldn't visit the US due to the visa situation, also feel the same about the many countries elsewhere which require pre-arranged visas? I realize that yes, the US is held to different standards, and rightly so IMO, but if you might consider, say Vietnam, then is the stand against visiting the US based mostly on a &quot;we'll show you&quot; sort of thing? Or would you not consider a visit to Russia, China, Vietnam, etc either? Just curious

(again, not saying I'm particularly pleased that's the company we're keeping)

The war on terrorism requires special screening of nationals of countries with so many terrorists as seemingly U.K. has.

Sorry, my fault for over-reacting to the hairy backed teamster from detroit.

One does wonder what we have done to him to make him so angry?

It must have involved beastly ghastliness or ghastly beastliness.

Clifton

I have travelled to countries that had rigid entry controls, but they are also countries whose nationals face similar challenges to enter the UK.

At the moment, it appears there is some disparity in the requirements of an US citizen entering Europe, and those of a European entering the UK.

I do realise there are reciprocal visa waiver schemes or similar, but there are horror stories of people refused entry to the US with no explaination or leave to appeal (While no provision was made for their families traveling with them) Similarly the experience of the Scottish Fodorite who had to travel from Scotland to the Embassy in London to have a 5 minute interview in which she was told a simple fact that could have been explained over a telephone does not make me keen to experience the system for myself.

&quot;Personally, I do think that requiring pre-arranged visas for visitors from Britain as well as other parts of world isn't what I'd like to see going on.&quot;

Except UK nationals don't need a visa to visit for up to 90 days for either work or pleasure. Pretty similar to US visitors to most of Europe.

The British are great travellers. The whole of Europe is next door, and many have been to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, Thailand and other places round the world. We know that some place require visas, that some have stringent requirements when taking in fruit and other foods, and that some places are just more foreign.

Europe is easy to travel to. There are no customs barriers, and we can carry fruit and cheese and meat as we wish. There is no realistic limit to the value of goods we can carry across borders. Our passports or I.D. cards are nodded through.

There is a strong constituency in Britain which says that the United States is a long-term trusted ally. We are exposed to American culture and to American business. We therefore expect to be treated as friends, and to understand the processes and attitudes.

The reality is sometimes different. Although most travel under the visa waiver scheme, if you do need a visa the process is fraught. It cannot be done by post, and costs $16 to telephone and make an appointment. You cannot take a mobile phone or backpack into the embassy, which is inconvenient for those living outside London.

Upon arrival in the U.S., you are liable to be detained and kept separate from the rest of your family while you are investigated. This treatment may be exceptional, but one does not hear similar stories about other countries.

I have not personally been inconvenienced when entering the United States, except for long waits at LAX. However, the welcome has certainly been a lot warmer at every other country I have visited.

OK, so definitely a lack of understanding on my part - other than the LAX waits and welcome, which I know all too well, even as a citizen.

I'm not clear though on what it is that is causing some British to have to go through what sounds like a painful process, while others are coming as before (??) on the visa waiver program? This I didn't know.

I had an Anglo-Pakistani colleague who went to Florida for his holiday.

He didn't count on the fact that his name was featured on the FBI Al Quaeda wanted list.

His namesake was a good twenty years his senior, but boy did he get hell!

He's never going back....

By the way, chartly - I agree that the British ARE great travelers, based on those I've met in many of the places you've listed and others. And not just in range, but also for their respect for where they're visiting (well, perhaps not including the Costa Del Sol). Not sure I could say the same in general for one of your neighbors within some of their former colonies, ahem. lol, sorry... just popped into my head as a point of comparison.

&quot;I have not personally been inconvenienced when entering the United States, except for long waits at LAX. However, the welcome has certainly been a lot warmer at every other country I have visited.&quot;

But the question is whether this treatment is any different than what an American receives when going to the UK. The first four times or so that I went to the UK, I was pulled aside for additional screening every time. Not sure why, never explained to me, just the usual rifling through my bags and additional questions. I suspect it was due to my Irish given names and Boston address, but it wasn't like they were offering up a whole lot of answers.

Even now, I never receive a warm welcome to the UK, just the usual questions about where I am staying, business or pleasure, and my current residency in Denmark usually prompts a little extra attention. Not terrible, but not exactly tea and biscuits.

And in what way is the UK visa system more friendly? One still has to apply for visas, pay fees, register with police, meet elgibility criteria, pass background checks, etc.

And please don't take this to mean I support US immigration laws - I would prefer open borders with freedom to work regardless of nationality, but that isn't the way it works, and I feel that the US is being harangued here for having policies and procedures that are not significantly different from those in the UK.

&quot;I agree that the British ARE great travelers&quot;

I can assure you that the reputation in mainland Europe is decidedly different. Personally, I think there is enough diversity in a country of 60m people to ensure that you will get all types and blanket statements in either direction are silly.

Yes but the OP is inviting us British to come to the USA, and we are saying that your current immigration laws and practices are a reason why some of us don't want to come.

Clearly many do (Orlando is the biggest destination for Brits outside Europe for holidays), but equally clearly many do not.

What Americans go through at our immigration is not relevant to how we perceive America.

Travelgourmet: I took it to mean that the British are great travellers in that we travel more than most (which is true) not that we necessarily behave ourselves when we get there.

&quot;I do realise there are reciprocal visa waiver schemes or similar, but there are horror stories of people refused entry to the US with no explaination or leave to appeal...&quot;

And one's options should they be denied entry to the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) are what? A quick Google search on the topic brings up a bunch of lawyers and phrases like &quot;your appeal may take up to 8 weeks&quot;.

travelgourmet, that may be the case, I don't know. I'm sure that there surely must be people that would fit the model from every country.

I can only relate what I've experienced in watching or meeting people when out and about. Mostly that's not been in western Europe though. So far, it hasn't been the British consistantly yelling at waiters for a cafe au lait while draped over chairs in Cambodia or smoking in mosques or sneering at little kids that I've experienced. I'm sure it must happen, I just haven't run into it.

Well, I say everyone just stay home. Except the people that don't let every little thing bother them.

If you think The US is to much trouble to visit don't come.

&lt;&lt;&lt; (a mind-boggling 2,000 KNOWN terrorist suspects in England alone) &gt;&gt;&gt;

So how many are there in the US? Or is that &quot;secret&quot;?

Is it comparable with the no-fly list which lists 44000 people - including Saddam Hussein, most of the 9/11 bombers, Osama Bin Laden &amp; the President of Bolivia - and the 75000 who just might be going to have a bomb with them and so should be searched.

&quot;What Americans go through at our immigration is not relevant to how we perceive America.&quot;

But I am arguing that it is relevant in setting one's expectations. My point is that this mantra of &quot;going to the US is such a hassle&quot; is bandied about constantly, always with some snide comment about the current US administration, yadda yadda yadda. And this oft-repeated &quot;wisdom&quot; seems based in nothing more than anecdotal evidence that reflects nothing more than normal trans-border travel and visa hassles.

To some extent, I guess, the EU has made travel so easy that the difference between traveling to the US is brought into sharp relief, but I fail to see exactly how it makes the US so unattractive.

And, just to be clear, I would be making the same arguments about an American saying &quot;I don't want to go to London, because immigration can take 2 hours (which it can).&quot; The US is a great and varied place to visit and I feel that Europeans are crazy if they don't take advantage of the weak dollar and visit. So, I am just trying to offer some balance to what I view as misinformation.