How much fuss would the UK pulling up a US secretary of state cause?

"Shahid Malik is higher up than the equivalent of a Senator.

Can't find the American equivalent, but he is part of the Government executive.

Not as high as Condoleeza, but closer to her post than to a Senator's."

Fair enough. Wasn't really trying to minimize the plight of the guy, I was just responding to what I viewed as a silly, unnecessary, and ill-informed comment.

As for Mr. Malik's role relative to a US Congressman or Senator, I think you may be discounting the Congressman and Senators a bit too much. Indeed, Mr. Malik's elected office is basically analogous to a Congressman. His position within the government doesn't have the same parallel in the US, due to the separation of the executive from the legislative bodies. Indeed, the position he holds would, in the US, probably fall under the purveiw of USAID, which is currently managed by a career government servant.

Personally, I do think that requiring pre-arranged visas for visitors from Britain as well as other parts of world isn't what I'd like to see going on. Many, many countries have multiple lists with which visitors will have which entry requirements.

I am curious though if those who wouldn't visit the US due to the visa situation, also feel the same about the many countries elsewhere which require pre-arranged visas? I realize that yes, the US is held to different standards, and rightly so IMO, but if you might consider, say Vietnam, then is the stand against visiting the US based mostly on a "we'll show you" sort of thing? Or would you not consider a visit to Russia, China, Vietnam, etc either? Just curious

(again, not saying I'm particularly pleased that's the company we're keeping)

The war on terrorism requires special screening of nationals of countries with so many terrorists as seemingly U.K. has.

Sorry, my fault for over-reacting to the hairy backed teamster from detroit.

One does wonder what we have done to him to make him so angry?

It must have involved beastly ghastliness or ghastly beastliness.

Clifton

I have travelled to countries that had rigid entry controls, but they are also countries whose nationals face similar challenges to enter the UK.

At the moment, it appears there is some disparity in the requirements of an US citizen entering Europe, and those of a European entering the UK.

I do realise there are reciprocal visa waiver schemes or similar, but there are horror stories of people refused entry to the US with no explaination or leave to appeal (While no provision was made for their families traveling with them) Similarly the experience of the Scottish Fodorite who had to travel from Scotland to the Embassy in London to have a 5 minute interview in which she was told a simple fact that could have been explained over a telephone does not make me keen to experience the system for myself.

"Personally, I do think that requiring pre-arranged visas for visitors from Britain as well as other parts of world isn't what I'd like to see going on."

Except UK nationals don't need a visa to visit for up to 90 days for either work or pleasure. Pretty similar to US visitors to most of Europe.

The British are great travellers. The whole of Europe is next door, and many have been to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, Thailand and other places round the world. We know that some place require visas, that some have stringent requirements when taking in fruit and other foods, and that some places are just more foreign.

Europe is easy to travel to. There are no customs barriers, and we can carry fruit and cheese and meat as we wish. There is no realistic limit to the value of goods we can carry across borders. Our passports or I.D. cards are nodded through.

There is a strong constituency in Britain which says that the United States is a long-term trusted ally. We are exposed to American culture and to American business. We therefore expect to be treated as friends, and to understand the processes and attitudes.

The reality is sometimes different. Although most travel under the visa waiver scheme, if you do need a visa the process is fraught. It cannot be done by post, and costs $16 to telephone and make an appointment. You cannot take a mobile phone or backpack into the embassy, which is inconvenient for those living outside London.

Upon arrival in the U.S., you are liable to be detained and kept separate from the rest of your family while you are investigated. This treatment may be exceptional, but one does not hear similar stories about other countries.

I have not personally been inconvenienced when entering the United States, except for long waits at LAX. However, the welcome has certainly been a lot warmer at every other country I have visited.

OK, so definitely a lack of understanding on my part - other than the LAX waits and welcome, which I know all too well, even as a citizen.

I'm not clear though on what it is that is causing some British to have to go through what sounds like a painful process, while others are coming as before (??) on the visa waiver program? This I didn't know.

I had an Anglo-Pakistani colleague who went to Florida for his holiday.

He didn't count on the fact that his name was featured on the FBI Al Quaeda wanted list.

His namesake was a good twenty years his senior, but boy did he get hell!

He's never going back....

By the way, chartly - I agree that the British ARE great travelers, based on those I've met in many of the places you've listed and others. And not just in range, but also for their respect for where they're visiting (well, perhaps not including the Costa Del Sol). Not sure I could say the same in general for one of your neighbors within some of their former colonies, ahem. lol, sorry... just popped into my head as a point of comparison.

"I have not personally been inconvenienced when entering the United States, except for long waits at LAX. However, the welcome has certainly been a lot warmer at every other country I have visited."

But the question is whether this treatment is any different than what an American receives when going to the UK. The first four times or so that I went to the UK, I was pulled aside for additional screening every time. Not sure why, never explained to me, just the usual rifling through my bags and additional questions. I suspect it was due to my Irish given names and Boston address, but it wasn't like they were offering up a whole lot of answers.

Even now, I never receive a warm welcome to the UK, just the usual questions about where I am staying, business or pleasure, and my current residency in Denmark usually prompts a little extra attention. Not terrible, but not exactly tea and biscuits.

And in what way is the UK visa system more friendly? One still has to apply for visas, pay fees, register with police, meet elgibility criteria, pass background checks, etc.

And please don't take this to mean I support US immigration laws - I would prefer open borders with freedom to work regardless of nationality, but that isn't the way it works, and I feel that the US is being harangued here for having policies and procedures that are not significantly different from those in the UK.

"I agree that the British ARE great travelers"

I can assure you that the reputation in mainland Europe is decidedly different. Personally, I think there is enough diversity in a country of 60m people to ensure that you will get all types and blanket statements in either direction are silly.

Yes but the OP is inviting us British to come to the USA, and we are saying that your current immigration laws and practices are a reason why some of us don't want to come.

Clearly many do (Orlando is the biggest destination for Brits outside Europe for holidays), but equally clearly many do not.

What Americans go through at our immigration is not relevant to how we perceive America.

Travelgourmet: I took it to mean that the British are great travellers in that we travel more than most (which is true) not that we necessarily behave ourselves when we get there.

"I do realise there are reciprocal visa waiver schemes or similar, but there are horror stories of people refused entry to the US with no explaination or leave to appeal..."

And one's options should they be denied entry to the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) are what? A quick Google search on the topic brings up a bunch of lawyers and phrases like "your appeal may take up to 8 weeks".

travelgourmet, that may be the case, I don't know. I'm sure that there surely must be people that would fit the model from every country.

I can only relate what I've experienced in watching or meeting people when out and about. Mostly that's not been in western Europe though. So far, it hasn't been the British consistantly yelling at waiters for a cafe au lait while draped over chairs in Cambodia or smoking in mosques or sneering at little kids that I've experienced. I'm sure it must happen, I just haven't run into it.

Well, I say everyone just stay home. Except the people that don't let every little thing bother them.

If you think The US is to much trouble to visit don't come.

<<< (a mind-boggling 2,000 KNOWN terrorist suspects in England alone) >>>

So how many are there in the US? Or is that "secret"?

Is it comparable with the no-fly list which lists 44000 people - including Saddam Hussein, most of the 9/11 bombers, Osama Bin Laden & the President of Bolivia - and the 75000 who just might be going to have a bomb with them and so should be searched.

"What Americans go through at our immigration is not relevant to how we perceive America."

But I am arguing that it is relevant in setting one's expectations. My point is that this mantra of "going to the US is such a hassle" is bandied about constantly, always with some snide comment about the current US administration, yadda yadda yadda. And this oft-repeated "wisdom" seems based in nothing more than anecdotal evidence that reflects nothing more than normal trans-border travel and visa hassles.

To some extent, I guess, the EU has made travel so easy that the difference between traveling to the US is brought into sharp relief, but I fail to see exactly how it makes the US so unattractive.

And, just to be clear, I would be making the same arguments about an American saying "I don't want to go to London, because immigration can take 2 hours (which it can)." The US is a great and varied place to visit and I feel that Europeans are crazy if they don't take advantage of the weak dollar and visit. So, I am just trying to offer some balance to what I view as misinformation.