Two weeks or so in Belgium and Netherlands
 

We are experienced independent travelers who usually travel with the idea that is better to see a few places well, than many poorly.

We are in the planning stages of a trip in late April or early May that will be limited to Belgium and Holland and have read many of the threads plus we have guides for each, Rough Guides. They cover small towns well, if they are linited on restaurants and hotels. There are many guides that concentrate on Amsterdam.

Are primary interests are art and museums, food, as much culture as one can ingest in a short period of time, amd walking around cities and some of the countryside. We are not shoppers and will stay at some combination of budget hotels, apartments, or b and b's, depending on price and location. We will not bike as a form of locomotion but could rent a car to see things in the countryside.

Right now, we plan on flying in Brussels and spending day and a half there. From there we want to see Bruges, Ypres, Antwerp and Ghent. In The Netherlands we want to use Amsterdam as a home base but make day trips to Delft, Haarlem, a dyke, and possibly Rotterdam and The Hague.

Among the suggestions we would appreciate is the best use of public transportation (and car, if ncessary to see the countryside) to see what we want to see.

We want to include a few leisurely days, as we ain't kids any more.

Can you suggest serious writers of Belgium and The Netherlands who have been translated in English?

We are planning on eating Indonesian food in Amsterdam and any other ethnic food you would suggest.

We are planning on flying home from Amsterdam all for a maximum of 16 days. Although we have been to Europe many times, we only spent time in Amsterdam at Schiphol.

Thank you in advance.

A car would be ideal - the whole area is quite small. Trains are also effective, though you'll see more with a car. When you're in the Netherlands you could consider ditching the car for a while and renting bikes, also a great way to get around. Do not drive into Amsterdam!

I would also recommend stopping off in Maastricht, a really delightful city in the south of Holland.

Thanks. I know that in many Euopean cities a car is more of a burden than a convenience. How about taking the train from Brussels to Bruges and then taking a car to Ypres, Ghent and Antwerp, dropping off the car in ANtwerp and take the train to AMsterdam?

Are the huge dykes in Netherlands near the border, so we can include them while we have the car, atill dropping off the car in Antwerp?

There is usually a large see for renting a car in one country and dropping it off in another.

Thanks

Among the suggestions we would appreciate is the best use of public transportation (and car, if necessary to see the countryside) to see what we want to see.>

No need of a car to visit any of those places as trains run frequently to all of them - having a car in Gent or Antwerp is useless as in many Benelux cities - parking can be had to score and expensive and those cities are very walkable -having a car to get into the countryside is a different question - but you can also rent bikes to do one day bike trips to many nice natural areas -

an nice bike ride would be to at that time of year cycle thru the heart of the flower fields between Haarlem and the Keukenhof - the annual flower show showcases the finest Dutch horticultural companies have to offer (www.keukenhof.nl) - rent a bike in Haarlem - and you'll be pedaling thru miles of undulating petals - totally awesome IMO.

Rent bikes other places but having a car to do the cities you mention makes little sense - the Dutch and Belgian train systems are amongst the finest in the world - Belgium is said to have the densest passenger railway network in Europe. For lots of good stuff on Benelux trains check out these IMO superb sources - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and ww.budgeteuropetravel.com - there is also a Benelux Railpass is traveling a lot on trains as you may well be that lets you just hop on any train anytime except Thalys trains which you never have to take on the itineraries you outline.

To see a 'dyke' - well they are all over though you often do not realize them - being covered with grass but if you look they are all over - now you may mean the giant Enclosing Dike keeping the North Sea separate from the Ijlsmeer (sp?) or the immense flood barrier south of Rotterdam and those can be reached by public transportation as well.

Thanks. As noted above, we cannot use a bike as a form of locomotion but we also can eschew the car and use the trains.

If we do rent a car we usually try to find a car rental facility on the periphery of a city to avoid negotiating a place we do not know. Maybe just for a day to visit the countryside to see the flora.

My wife is interested in seeing the dykes, even though they are heavily camouflaged to mask their intention. We live in Manhattan and have a new and totally amateur's interest in how to prevent floods since Sandy. And it seems the Dutch are just about the best in the world in thwarting the seas.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...etherlands.cfm

You may find this current thread of interest.

Thanks

http://www.unmuseum.org/7wonders/zunderzee.htm

this is the Delta Works - a huge project - a mammoth project helping to protect Holland from the sea and especially future rises in sea levels projected.

You can take a bus there that goes across the barrier or of course drive over it. Not the typical dyke perhaps in your minds with a lad sticking a finger in it to save it but an incredible thing!

Thanks. I am truly disappointed to know that there are not thousands, if not millions, of Dutch boys in ridiculous haircuts holding back the sea.

That info is helpful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=afsl...=1600&bih=1074

And the Enclosing Dyke in northern Holland you can drive or take a bus over - more the picture of a real dyke etched in our minds' eyes. I have been over that - drove and yes it is quite interesting.

I'd take trains. We had a car when we toured that area and it was more of a hindrance than a convenience, particularly in the cities. And truck traffic out of Rotterdam was just horrid.


When you mention serious writers, what do you have in mind? Travel, literature, classics? Desiderius Erasmus immediately came to my mind.

I have been to Belgium twice this year (July and September) and on both occasions I had a car.

Everywhere we went (Ghent, Bruges, Antwerp, Brussels) parking was easy to find, either free (Brussels) or inexpensive(6 Euros in Ghent) and convenient.

A car allows you to explore the area between, on a train you are limited to the destination and arrival points.

Google Jan de Hartog, the only Dutch writer I am familiar with.

You can't do the Ypres Salient route without a car.You can also pop into Canada (Vimy Ridge)

I would spend more time in Brussels. The public transit is efficient but filthy, especially the subway. Brussels has a lot of interesting museums (Instrument, Beer, Brussels, Military, African, Magrite)

In Brussels we stayed in The Royal Windsor, near the Gross Markt, and Hotel Chelton (easy parking, good access to metro and bus.)

Two weeks is a lot of time for those two countries.

Mark

Thanks you for the info.

The more I read about these countries, the more we added. We counted at least three day trips from Amsterdam and we are inveterate museum goers and it seems like Amsterdam has many that are worthwhile.

Be sure to get the National Museum Pass for Holland - just 3 main museums in Amsterdam make it pay off and then you can come and go and visit hundreds of museums all over Holland, including the Anne Frank House.

Thanks for the hint. Sometimes those passes in other cities are useless.

http://www.amsterdam.info/museums/museumkaart/

also gives priority line skipping entry to some museums with long lines at ticket windows.

Thanks, I also noticed there are two cards specifically for Amsterdam-one is called I Am Amsterdam and the other is combo discount/entrance expiditer.

Are these good also?

We looked at those cards but we did not feel we would utilize them to their full extent. We chose the Museumkaart which is good at 400 museums throughout Holland for one year. We were able to skip the queue at the Rijksmusum which saved lots of time. We used it in Haarlem which has some great museums and in Zaanse Schanse. Oy can buy it at some of the museums that accept it. It is also good for the Anne Frank House.

Has no one mentioned the beer yet? I think that is the #1 reason to take the train :) Then you can sample all the fabulous Belgian beers and not have to designate a driver.

If you manage to go in may, many of the small ferries in Zeeland are in operation

http://rondje-pontje.nl/

I suggest visiting the Oosterscheldekering and Neeltje Jans.

for any public transport related advice: 9292.nl

A book I found very enlightening on Dutch culture is Simon Schama's "the embarrassment of riches"

and to stay on theme: I liked this novel, by Margriet de Moor: http://olduvaireads.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/the-storm/

It's easy to rent a car for a day and venture out to zeeland, or to that other dutch civil engineering marvel, the flevopolders.

maybe Leiden would be a more central base for what you are planning than Amsterdam. Lovely university town. And half an hour to Amsterdam, 15 minutes to The Hague, 40 minutes to Utrecht, half an hour to Rotterdam and next door are the tulip fields, with the sea (Katwijk, Noordwijk) 15 minutes away.

For Indonesian food, go to The Hague, not Amsterdam.

this one is excellent

http://www.tripadvisor.nl/Restaurant..._Province.html

it's a warung, so small and cantina like. but it's excellent.

side note: there's a different between Indonesian and "Indisch" (eurasian) food. Most "Indische" restaurants serve Eurasian food. The rijsttafel is a modern invention and not at all how you would eat a meal in either an Indonesian or Indisch restaurant (or at home: the most memorable food was served to me at people's homes, at birthdays and such)

A classic way of composing your meal: white rice as a base, a sayur (mild vegetables in a spiced broth), a meat or fish or vegetarian sambalan (like ayam semur, rendang, or tahu peteh), something for crunch (serundeng, kerupuk) and a pickle like acar ketimun or acar campur. some sambal for extra spice, if need be.

ideally, spicy (pedis), sweet and sour are in balance, and textures are varied. too often, Indonesian food suffers from the "vindaloo syndrome", the hotter the better, but a good cook gives you not too much heat, but a real depth of flavors.

In general, a restaurant with women as cooks is the better restaurant.

don't judge a Rice Table by the number of dishes advertised, like tourist ones do in Amsterdam - some 'dishes' are rice crackers, etc.

Thanks for the hint. Sometimes those passes in other cities are useless.>

Yes like the I Love Amsterdam Pass or whatever they are calling it that gives free entry to only a handful of museums, maybe a boat ride, etc. and a tram pass - way more cost than average person would spend - but with the Museum Kaart I always go into some museums I never would have paid to go in - and here are some of the less-herlded and IME superb museums the pass covers: The Troppen Museum - of life in the tropics with street scenes re-created and always some cutting-edge display; the Dutch Resistance Museum documenting the heroic struggle of the Dutch during the Nazi Occupation;

The Ship Museum on the port with all those all sailing ships;

The Lord in the Attic museum - kind of museum - old church hidden away in attic of a building from times when the Dutch were less tolerant

The Hermitage of Saint Petersburg branch in Amsterdam.

The Jewish Museum

The Reubens House and on and on and on

and the City of Amsterdam museum with all its fascinating exhibits and some old churches, etc.

And of course museums in many other Dutch towns (Kroller-Muller being an exception that I was shocked to learn after getting there!)

If you want to go to the Tropen museum (which I would recommend on sundays, because then they play the beautiful Gamelan there), make haste, because they're scrapping it. A scandal, but there you go.

Gamelan - please enlighten me - wow after going to Amsterdam so so many times you are a font on new ideas and things I've missed out on!

another off-beat museum well not museum but thing to see is the Cat Baot - Pussy Boat I think in Dutch - a houseboat refuge for lost cats - zillions of cats running amok: on a pretty canal in the heart of town-

http://www.poezenboot.nl/?taal=uk

http://www.tropenmuseum.nl/smartsite...8&paid=2122698

OK I failed to fin anything at first but found Gamelan and Troppen Museum - Indonesian folk dance, right?

Thank you all for the very helpful information on all different accounts. Much to mull over.

I can recommend The Coffee Trader, by David Liss.

The Coffee Trader is an historical novel by David Liss, set in 17th century Amsterdam. The story revolves around the activities of commodity trader Miguel Lienzo, a Jew who is a refugee from the Portuguese Inquisition. (from Wikipedia).

Also, if you are in the Netherlands during April/May, then a trip to the Keukenhof is a must. Do not miss out on the tulips.

menachem - Thanks for the heads up about the Gamelan playing at the Troppen, but they're "scrapping" it? Had I known it was there, I would have made an effort to see the museum. My friend, who is a percussionist travelled to Bali to the Gamelan factory and ordered a full orchestra set, which she had shipped back to the states. I think it cost her about $6000.00 to do the deal!

Robyn :)>-

Thanks again.

They're threatening to scrap the entire museum.

http://www.tropenmuseum.nl/smartsite.shtml?id=14048

Can I also recommend FOAM and Huis Marseille for lovers of photography...?

http://www.huismarseille.nl/

I checked out the website, and had I known the Tropenmuseum had 5500 instruments, I definitely would have visited. I'll have to add it to my list of reasons to return to Amsterdam, hopefully before the museum closes.

I, too, will recommend the National Museumkaart. We've bought one the last 3 times we visited Amsterdam, and each time got more than our money's worth. Having the card gives you the opportunity to see the museums that you might not normally visit. Like the FOAM, mentioned above. Although I enjoy photography, we wouldn't have paid to visit the museum, but since we had already paid, in essence, we went and enjoyed. We also enjoyed touring several of the canal houses, and we both, my husband and I, thoroughly enjoyed the Tassenmuseum, The Museum of Bags and Purses. The history was fascinating.

Robyn :)>-

Our day trip to Ypres was done from the French side (we drove in from Arras for the day.) With a car you can ferret out interesting places nearby like reconstructed trenches, and the odd memorial or two.

Ypres (careful, it may be spelled Ieper) itself has the In Flanders Fields museum, well worth seeing - we were there for two hours. Ypres is a 2 hour train journey from Brussels - I have not come from that direction but google suggests it would be just over an hour by car. Add in a few nearby sites and you've easily got a daytrip from Brussels (or Ghent.)

We've also seen the Vimy memorial - careful, you can't just 'pop in' as part of a day trip from Brussels to Ypres. It's an hour or so south of Ypres by car (and you do need a car!)

Thanks again for the various responses.

While in Belgium, we wish to visit, Ghent, Bruges, Antwerp, Ypres, and a quick dip into The Netherlands to see Oosterscheldekering.

Right now it seems the best way is rent a car from Brussels and return it in Bruges and then from Bruges take the train to Amsterdam. Does that make any sense?

The roads seem very good in both countries, is that the case?

And there is any difference in useage between Holland and The Netherlands?

Thanks again in advance.

I was in Belgium and Holland in the summer of 2012 and loved it. I preferred Delft over Amsterdam(Delft is a smaller version on Amsterdam). Kinderdijk in Holland is an amazing place to se windmills. There are 19 windmills and nice polders and you can enter a working windmill. Also Waterloo is worth a visit if you are a history buff. I also went to a beach town called knokke, So-So. Antwerp is an amazing city. I thought Brussels was so over-rated. You wouldn't ever notice the Mannekin Pis if it weren't for all the people flocked around the area. BEWARE OF DRIVERS IS BRUSSELS!! I was walking through a pedestrian crosswalk and had the green light to go, and this car backs up into me and breaks my hand, he just took off. SO be careful!

And there is any difference in useage between Holland and The Netherlands?>

Only to the Dutch I think as there is a major difference but for Americans at least we are likely to call the whole country Holland.

But Holland technically is only about the southern and southwestern part of The Netherlands as I can decipher it - you have Zuid (south) Holland - say the Delft/Leiden/Rotterdam/Den Hague areas and Nord (north) Holland - Alkmaar and the whole peninsula north of it - Haarlem and Amsterdam may be some kind of dividing line betwen south and north Holland - I do not technically but many Dutch say 'we're from Holland" themselves so I think even the Dutch use the word Holland to refer to the whole country though technically that may be incorrect.

Point is don't worry about it - I say Holland in part because The Netherlands is longer to type.

Thanks.

I am glad it is not like the British, English, Irish, Welch, Scots thing, where a slip is a major insult.

How strong is the separatist movement in Belgium today?

Well, being Dutch myself, I know that many people to foreigners just use "Holland" because that's recognizable.

But you'll never hear people who are not either from North or South Holland province refer to themselves as being "from Holland". To say to someone from Limburg or Friesland or Drenthe that she is "from Holland" is indeed somewhat as an insult.

So just call the country The Netherlands.

IMDonehere: why not return your car in Antwerp and take the train from there. That's a direct connection.

I think a day and a half in Brussels is too little. It is more than the Grand Place.

I wrote a trip report in 2011 with quite a lot about Brussels and Antwerp

Thanks again.

The opinions concerning Brussels are like a kid pulling the petals from a flower, "She loves me, she loves me not...."

www.holland.com/uk/‎
Welcome to Holland.com, the official website of the Netherlands Board of Tourism and Conventions, where you receive all the information for your stay in ...

Well since the government tourist board uses Holland I think that says it all - why don't they have www.thenetherlands.com but instead use www.holland.com?

so on this board used mainly by non-Dutch Holland is OK - according to the Dutch Tourist Board!