Travel with another couple-Advice Please!
 

Hello everyone, another couple and ourselves are considering a 2 or 3 week trip together to Italy. We've never travelled together, but are pretty compatible. So far (their idea)- is 1 base (a small villa or something with 2 bed/bath)and do things from there, and 1 rental car (my husband would be the driver - their request). Before we go much farther in this planning,and especially before commiting to anything specific, wondered if any of you who have travelled with friends have any advice which make make things go 'smoother'. Don't want to ruin a friendship!! Thanks so much.

Well, already you are going along with their ideas. Do you have any qualms about what they have suggested? If so, speak up now and not later. Do you want to stay in one place, does your husband want to do all the driving?

The best way to avoid broken friendships (or just an uncomfortable trip) is to communicate with each other before the fact.

I would be hesitant to spend 2/3 weeks in a house in once place in the country with only one car and your hsuband the driver.

Traveling with people you don;t know that well is easier if you're in big cities, everyone is maneuverable on their own - and you can each do what you want and not be joined at the hip every moment.

Also - do you relaly WANT to spend 2/3 weeks in a house in the country? Will you be doing hiking or biking or ?? Or just you hubby acting as chaffeur for visits to dfferent places every day - and for every meal.

Sounds like their vacation - and the two of you at their beck and call.

Figue out what YOU want - then see if any part of it matches what they want. But make sure there are ways you can separate at times with no hard feelings - and not so much work for your hubby.

Having travelled with family and friends....

Determine what your and their interests are. Some people like museums, some hate it...some likk shopping, some don't. Plan to either accomodate both, or plan for time where...the men go to the XXX while the women go to the YYY.

Are there any costs you should discuss up front?

Before you go any further take a long weekend together. See if you are compatible for that. If not do not do it.

We've done that. My husband likes to drive so that wasn't a problem but we like to stay in a different base for each week we're there. That worked well for us. I would never do it for longer though (3 weeks).

We have done this very successfully with friends on a number of occasions, but you have to agree on a lot, some of which the other posters have raised as issues. Other things that can kill a friendship:

1. early rising vs sleeping in
2. one last castle vs calling it a day 3. grabbing a sandwich vs a two hour lunch
4. familiar food vs local cooking
5. "I had the fish, so my share is $11.93 and my share of the tip is . . ." vs splitting the bill evenly and figuring it will average
out

I am sure others will have other issues.

I, too, would question having just one car...

One other thing to think about is the fact that in a 2-bedroom villa there will likely be one master bedroom and one lesser bedroom. Will that cause any problems? I would investigate the layout of the villa in detail to discuss any issues that might arise..try to get good pictures.

Do you all want to be where you MUST get in the car each time you leave the house for someplace? That can turn into a drag, and if only one is driving (the only one comfortable with a standard shift?) then he is definitely turned into a chauffeur.

If you can locate a house or apartment CLOSE to a town or inside the walls, you may find that better. For one thing, you see more of the people, get accustomed to the food shops, etc. You'll have a cafe or two to choose from, one will become your hangout. Each can go on his or her own energy to pick up something for lunch or for that first coffee of the day.

Among all the country houses with pools out there for rent, there are many great apartments in towns like Asissi, Todi, etc. - if you base yourselves in a PLACE rather than a house in the middle of a field, you'll have a lot more flexibility.

Otherwise, just be sure you all give one another plenty of room to make your own choices. Adults who are used to privacy and their own quirks can find others' really maddening after a few days or a week - let alone 3. Then have a good time and really DO split up on a regular basis. Go to different restaurants when visiting one town, report back later. It gives you something to talk about and time alone with your other half.

Yes, definitely get another car or use public transportation. Maybe stay in 1 area for a week, move to a new villa for the next week - change the scenery and see new things? I think you spend time together seeing sights and doing day trips, but also go for a romantic dinner as separate couples, wives go shopping in a little town while husbands ride their bikes. Time together and time apart will make things run smoothly and you won't get on each other's nerves.

Best Regards,
Julia
Blog: spasandadventures.wordpress.com

Understand how the finances will be handled before you leave; will you trade off paying for meals, have a kitty to draw from, separate checks? It may sound petty but if one couple enjoys wine and the other doesn't, feelings can get hurt if the check is split evenly. Do they want to have a schedule of what to see and when? Do you like doing things rather ad hoc? If you're in the country with one car, it could get uncomfortable; you might want to split the trip into a city and a country part - start in the city so you can each have your own hotel room, do sightseeing either together or independently and then venture out to tuscany.

Ackislander pretty much nailed it. It's all those little details that start to turn a trip sour.

Nothing's worse than getting up early to hit the streets and then having to wait while someone else decided to sleep in.

When we're with other couples we plan our next day the night before. We decide on a morning meeting time, and we figure out what we want to see over breakfast.

It's not a hardcore plan, and we are flexible, but you do have to be on the same pages where the basics are concerned.

Hi onthegogo,

Love your name!

My first question is whether you have been to Itay before? It doesn't sound as if you have. Are you expecting to see the major cities via day trips from your villa?

Personally, I would get bored staying in the same place for 3 weeks on a first trip and want to see more. Driving back and forth every day would get old very fast too! Too much backtracking for me.

I'm one of those who loves cities, countryside, mountains and beach, so I lke to mix it up!

If I were you, assuming a first trip to Italy itinerary, I would start with a rough outline of:

fly into Venice
3 nts Venice
train to Florence
2 nts Florence
rent car
1 week at villa in Tuscany or Umbria
drop car, train to Rome
5 nts Rome

spend remainder of nts in either Amalfi Coast, Lakes, or Ligurian coast

or, just add more nights to other locations if you don't want to move around as much

Just some thoughts to add to all the points already raised by the others.
Lots of opportunities for major conflicts here if you don't agree on much in the planning stage.

Also I completely agree on having 2 cars for your villa stay!

Buon viaggio!

onthegogo,

Count me in the group asking "are you SURE only 1 car?". What about couple time or boys/girls time? On vacation "splitting up" from time to time is an absolute necessity.

Big fan of working out finance details before hand too. Things like deciding "hey lets have drinks here and eat later" can can upset the others' plans and budget.

Or even preparing meals in--it seems like it's always the same one(s) who do the cooking.

It's the little things that make people the most crazy, but if you've got the kind of relationship where speaking up and asserting yourself is encouraged, the you go girl!

Rather than question the car, I'm questioning the villa. Do you want to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere all that time? Where will you take your meals? If you were in a hotel in town, any of you, singly or in combination, could step out and walk or take public transport to anyplace you wanted to go. Instead, even the simplest trips are going to be coordinated four-person car trips.

I suspect you'll end up sitting in your villa reading in a guidebook about all the exciting places you're not seeing.

I think you should stay in hotels, and make arrangements to meet up with the other couple for dinner, and allow yourself the freedom to sightsee with them some days and without on others -- and always be in touch by cell phone. And move around a little; don't just stay in one place.

And agree before you leave that all shared meals will be split 50-50, no discussion.

Sounds like this couple want a driver (your husband) and maybe you'll end up being their cook?

I think 3 weeks in one place would be boring and it's a loooong time to spend with another couple if things aren't working out....

How about 3 different bases; make at least one a city so transport isn't an issue and stay in an hotel. This allows you all some time to do as you please.

The most important thing is discuss as much as you can beforehand. Use this thread as a 'what if' scenario and if they wonder why you have so many questions just say you really want things to go smoothly so that you all have a wonderful vacation and don't ruin your friendship!

I think it can always be dangerous to be around people all the time you aren't used to, you just never know. If you aren't used to being around other people all the time in general, this can get on your nerves. But I don't have the negative take on this that some others do, and don't think it's fair to immediately think these folks are rude or greedy or whatever the idea is about how they are having what they want and have your husband be a servant.

It is possible they just aren't comfortable driving in foreign countries and with other cars, and that is where this is coming from. And they think it overkill (and maybe you do, to) to rent two cars for a vacation if you mainly plan to do minimal traveling. Car rental on vacation can be pretty expensive, I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se -- but you know them better, if it's not at all a matter of being cautious about driving in another country and just being really cheap, two cars might be a good idea.

I haven't traveled with friends that much, and not on this type of vacation, so don't have a lot to offer about experience with villas in Italy. I'm just not big on the whole vacationing with friends thing, but for a large villa, it does make sense.

Hi ON,

>We've never travelled together, ...Don't want to ruin a friendship!! <

Don't do it until you have traveled together over a few weekends.

We were great friends with a couple for years, until we went away with them for a week.

((I))

I would not go with another couple for 2-3 weeks anywhere no matter how compatible you think you are.

My husband and I did try that with another couple and one car, so I know what can happens. The trip was a disaster!!! I was expected to sit in the back seat at all times, which had very little leg room, and those head rests block your view. When I finally did get in the front seat, the guy of the other couple complained he couldn't see things. They did not want to do the same things that we wanted to do. They had their own agenda and expected us to follow along.

Personally, I would plan a trip for my husband and myself. In that plan, I would select a hotel in a town and tell the other couple the dates we would be there if they wanted to meet us for a dinner.

You will waste time and energy trying to decide what to do so the feelings of the other couple are not hurt. Sounds as if the other couple has already taken control of the trip, and you and your husband are just along to share expenses and do the driving. Maybe they will let you carry their bags, too.

Good luck in whatever you do.

I applaud your optimism in considering this trip. Optimism certainly eases things and makes trip planning more fun. I'm too much of a realist to take on such an adventure. The reality is, I find it annoying to deal with my own quirks, and dealing with the quirks of 3 others for 3 weeks is unthinkable.

This is not to say that the 4 of you should cancel your plans. But I would definitely do a week long trip with the other couple prior to making plans for Italy. This will allow enough time for you to see the whole gambit of their quirks, hear all their stories at least once, and get clues as to potential problems. Put aside your rose colored glasses for the trip and be honest about how the 4 of you will gel for 3 weeks.

In lieu of this you might want to spend a few days with a two year old as this will give you insight into your own tolerance for noise, disruption, and forced togetherness. You will also gain insights about dealing with dawdlers, picky eaters, annoying phrases, and endless questions. Conflicts over music selection, choice of destination, and sleep habits will prepare you for the challenges of living as one big happy family for 3 weeks.

Now is the time to be frank about your expectations for this trip. Each one of you should generate a list of must do, must see, must have, and work from there. This will tell you a lot about expectations and you'll be able to negotiate or compromise, if necessary, from the comfort of your own home. Waiting to discuss plans in Italy when you may be hot, hungry, thirsty, and tired from your travels will not enhance group harmony.

We had a wonderful 2 week trip to Italy with friends and had such a good time we've had 2 other trips since then with the same couple. We did sit down and talk about expectations of hotel and food costs, activities. My husband did all the driving, not an issue.
We did change from staying out in the country to staying in towns. That gave us all a chance to wonder out on our own. Our friends were eager to set out early, so this allowed them to have an activity before we joined them for the day's touring. The best advice you've gotten in these posts are about that subject.
Our male friend kept a running tab on who had paid for a lunch, a cab, etc for the 4, and we traded expenses back and forth, trying to keep it about even at the end of each day or 2. I've travelled with others where we had 1 pool of money for meals, gas, entrance fees, etc. and just split evenly. We may pay a bit more than we actually drank with meals, but making it simple is worth it.
Having friends to share the sites, jokes and experiences have made those trips truly worthwhile. However, we have friends that I love, but would never dream of taking along on a trip. Only you know if you're compatible for a 3 week trip, trust your instincts and listen to the posts above.

I will join the chorus - can be great, can be otherwise.

We did 2 weeks in France with Scottish friends and had a great time.

Then did 10 days in the NE USA with friends and had an okay time and afterward our friendship definitely chilled.

Discuss, converse, dialogue, then do it again. Trial trips are good, but you probably can't get to someplace where your friends are the only ones around you speaking English.

I feel that one good thing is to make it clear from the begining that you would not have to do every single visit or activity together. You might often go your own way let us say in the morning and meet for lunch .
Other times if you four agree to go to let us say a Museum you might go together, but at a certain point separate and plan to meet later at a designated place.
Then continue together or not, and have togethere a coffee in the museum's bar.

Every alliance must have a horse and a rider.

My suggestion is to travel concurrently but not simultaneously in lockstep.

By that I mean take the same flight over, get to your accommodation at the same time, but until you "break camp", each party should plan their own separate sightseeing itinerary. If the others want to go with you, fine. But make it clear that you have your own agenda, your own objectives for sightseeing, and your own meal preferences.

I even find it difficult to travel with my own son (age 47) unless we have a pre-set agenda. Like we met at a lodge in Canada one summer. He hiked his trails and I hiked mine. We had in common breakfast and dinner and dinner at the lodge.

My own parents tried traveling with relatives (once) and old friends (once).
The experiences were never repeated and the stories of disagreements became part of family lore, all negative!!!

Where the friends were concerned, the wife and my father could not even agree on how to boil water. She had an immersion heater and when bubbles formed on the coils of the heater she pronounced the water boiled. My physical chemist father just about had apoplexy trying to explain that just because water in contact with the coils was bubbling it did not mean the entire pot full had boiled. He even swished the coils around to make the bubbles disappear. Her response: The water boiled but you cooled it off.

If you want to travel with someone, I really suggest that you do it within the framework of an organized tour.

I know my wife has a friend that she has known since they were 14. The friend has a habit of ALWAYS being late for everything. My wife thinks she would drive us absolutely crazy if we tried to schedule anything with her. So we never have done anything together.

In other words, what I am saying is this: Set YOUR agenda. If the others want to come fine. Otherwise, I can see a nice trip being spoiled.

What it sounds like is that that they want your husband to be the designated driver and cart them about on their agenda. I would say to that "bad word NO."

We will travel with a friend this summer in Germany. But, the agenda is set. We plan to drive from the Tegernsee to Berchtesgaden and back. We have travelled with her before, and she is an excellent driver. We will make our little trip while her husband is playing golf. Then we will come back to the hotel for dinner that evening and everyone orders what he or she wishes.
We eat at the same time, but we do not have to eat the same things nor do we HAVE to do it together. We usually do, but nothing about it says HAVE TO.

Breakfast is when the spirit moves us.
And, we stay at a hotel. That way both parties have freedom of movement and schedule after we visit for a few hours.

Many of the other posts are right on.

* too much time togther with another couple in one place , especially the countryside where there is no diversion without driving

* seems like they want some things their way,even before you leave.

**Instead:


Fly to Rome for a 3-5 day stay

Pick up a car and drive to a small town in Tuscany,to be used as a base for a week of day trips.

Drive to Florence. Drop the car. Spend 3-5 days in Florence.

Take a train to Venice---3-5 days

Fly home from Venice

Your husband may like to drive, but I guarantee that after 1 week on some of those roads it will no longer be fun.

Whatever,--- when you pick up the car put 1 other person on the paperwork as a backup driver.

I think you have a lot of good advice from the other posters. We (my wife and I) have traveled successfully with friends several times. Then there was the trip from hell. We had no idea it was going to be so bad. I can't explain it all, but part of it was simply the other wife's rather high pitched voice and never ending commentary. After a week we were ready to cut out own throats. With the husband, it was the money. He was so cheap. We had no idea. If we got to a place after lunch, he didn't want to pay the admission because he might not get his money's worth. Checks in restaurant were divided to the penny as was gas for the car. Actually, we had done things together before this trip and none of this had happened, so it was a complete surprise. Of course, afterwards we had no interest in seeing them again and they keep calling saying what a wonderful time they had.

Thank you so much everyone for your thoughtful replies filled with good advice and insight. Made me think over the few conversations we've had with 'our friends' over this...and when I tryed to talk detail, their response generally is something like, "anything will be fine", with no specific input. Although they've travelled quite a bit, and to Italy too, its always with tour companies, like Grand Circle and others. They know we've travelled to Europe a number of times, always on our own; driving, trains, and always making all of our own reservations, spending alot of time researching plans (enjoying that part too - of course with the help of Fodors folks!). Previously we've suggested they join us on a cruise or meet us over in a near-by coastal town for a weekend getaway and I was specific about how its a perfect travel venue for travel with others as you really can separate and just get together for dinner or something...but they've declined in past. I guess bottom line is....we don't really feel comfortable with this current trip idea and now do wonder if they see this as an opportunity to be on a personalized 'guided tour' as they know we'll do all the planning, researching, driving, etc.! Think our decision has been made....now to get out of this gracefully!! Thanks again all for your help to clarify our thinking around this!! Safe travels!

It's absolutely true that it can be great or gruesome - even both on the same trip.

People you like very much can become annoying once you're joined at the hip - and we all have "qualities" that become "failings" in the eyes of others, at least when experienced day in and day out.

Funny enough, when the group grows larger this can be relieved: you get to share part of your time with different people. One of the best little vacations I've had was in Paris, 4 of us traveling as singles, along with two couples. There were many permutations of the group every day, even the couples could break up now and then. When you became sick of shopping or museums or trekking to the next "must see", you could drop out by ones or twos to do something else. The last day everyone got to go do the thing they most wanted, with no hurt feelings.

Look at this as a dating experience: first you go out, then gradually spend more and more time together. Eventually you go away for a weekend - a b&b or hotel somewhere in driving distance - before planning a long trip where it's just the two of you. Apply the same logic with couples.

My folks once took a two week trip with friends with very mixed results. Mom and her friend enjoyed themselves immensely and became even closer. Dad, however, discovered that the know-it-all personality of the husband was only the tip of the iceberg of inflexibility and opinion. My Dad's vacation, therefore, was filled with tension. Until they got to NY, that is, where my folks stayed with me and their friends were in a hotel. Finally they had some time apart and everyone relaxed again.

The moral: go with the standard advice here and make sure you have time apart. You could go so far as to separate completely during the middle week.

By the way, in defense of the original idea, it's true that sharing a house or apartment and car makes a trip far more affordable. And if you're really suited to one another, it can be a lot of fun. On the other hand, I still believe that a country house can be a bit isolating - if you all haven't spent a great deal of time in Italy, you may be missing out on the daily life of a town or city.

Maybe suggest to your friends that the first week be in a town - anything from Rome to a smaller Tuscan or Umbrian town - followed by a week at the country house, then another week at a hotel location. Or check out some of the great Agriturismo or other country hotels, where you will feel less isolated. By the way, I like driving in Italy. But if you are at one base location for 3 weeks, you may feel like you're covering the same ground after a week or so. of course some people get to that country house and spend part of every day by the pool or just relaxing, which can also make a very nice vacation!

I will second and third everything said above. I recently backed out of a trip in the pre-planning stages with a friend who said she'd just go and "do everything you do" except that she likes to sleep in late, has a one hour tolerance for museums, needs her 3 pm nap and has a tight budget for meals, as well as wants to see 2 weeks of sightseeing in 7 days. Oh and I'd do all the research and just tell her what she was seeing as we made our way through Italy. Clearly there's a compatibility problem here, at least for me.

You need to have a deeper conversation, just so that it doesn't become "Mr. & Mrs. OtherCouple Going On Onthegogo's Vacation".

We spend too much emotionally and financially on vacation, it's a shame to waste either and ruin a friendship in the process.

onthegogo, I think you made the right decision. It was an unfortunate vacation just waiting to happen. Have fun on your own!!

Hi onthego,

It sounds like you know this couple's travelling style and it's significantly different to yours. Yes, going on a cruise together would work easily but 3 weeks at a villa would make you the tour guide.

To get out of this gracefully, and avoid them suggesting a similar plan again I'd be gently honest and say that you know that you have such a different travelling style to them that you'd not want to take on the role of their tour guide as it might strain or ruin your friendship.
Suggest a cruise or weekend getaway again and explain that these type of vacations are perfect ways to spend time together without too much planning on your part.

Good luck! When travelling with others works it's bliss and we have some treasured memories of shared trips but when it doesn't it's miserable.

Hi again onthegogo,

I agree! The major red light here is that they take tours and you travel independently.

My best friend tends to "go along with the ride" and I tend to be the researcher and planner. We travel well together because we are both easy going and have been friends for 30 years. Still, we talk about basic individual requirements ahead of time and agree on itinerary and money. works for us!

We're facing our first trip with others (other than family) this fall, and this post has provided a wealth of insight. Thanks!

I'll probably post some questions of my own relating to our trip, which is a bit different in that DH and a colleague are going to Venice and Milan for some meetings; CW (colleague's wife) and I are going with. She and I will be free during the day - I'm SO excited about being able to explore Venice in depth, but it's their first time in Europe. So I'm already feeling guilty that CW will (i) have to tag along with me, as I explore every obscure church I can find (I'm fine with her tagging along) or (ii) need to find a tour she can take to see the "basics," as I don't want to spend my time being a tour guide to places I don't want to go to (I'm fine with being tour guide for places that I DO want to visit)...

But I suspect some of the other issues outlined here will crop up as well!

"He even swished the coils around to make the bubbles disappear. Her response: The water boiled but you cooled it off."

Bob Brown, I know it might not have been funny at the time, but boy did I get a chuckle out of your anecdote. You have some great stories! "Every alliance has a horse and a rider." Wise words, indeed.

onthegogo, you are a wise lady to back out now. Your friends motives might be innocent and inded they may well have made the suggestion out of ignorance than exploitation, but the result on your friendship might well have been the same.

Hi, GoGo...

When I read, in your first post, that your husband would drive ("their request), the proverbial red flag was flying for me...

You made the right decision.

2 years ago we invited our friends from Japan on a 10 day trip around the UK with us. He doesn't speak English, we don't speak Japanese. She was an online ESL student of mine for several years and had visited us once in the States for about 10 days. Other than that, we had never met.

They always travel with tour companies, we would never do that. It worked out fine. Here is why.

This was "our" trip. We planned it and told them what we wanted to do. 2 days Edinburgh, 2 day drive south to Cotswolds, 3 days around Cotswolds, 3 days London. We all had a great time.

Was it difficult at times? Yes. But they were doing something they had never done before and we knew exactly what we wanted to do. Edinburgh and London allowed us to do some things together and many things apart. They couldn't keep up with us, ha ha.

We've invited them to go with us to Rome this year. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

Now, with that all being said, for many years I ran a charter boat in the Caribbean, so I got used to having "strangers" around me for a week at a time.

:-)
dave

In the past 15 years, we have travelled with the same couple at least 10 times. It is fortunate that we are very compatible. There may be some differences at times, but if you are easy going and accepting, things work out.

Close proximity does breed some disagreement, even between spouses. You have to be certain that the other couple is reasonable and even tempered. If you have any doubt, a short trip would be helpful. It also helps to make clear that you can do things independently at times.

We spent 3 weeks in New Zealand. I drove all the way, since he did not want to drive. Twice we had 2BR, 2BA apts. It all worked out very well.

We are now planning our next trip, 2 weeks in Southern Africa. ((*))

Lexma90,

I remember a business trip my Mom took with Dad and his colleague and his wife (CW). Like you, the wives spent the days together while the husbands were at work. They spent 10 days in Portofino and Venice--every traveler's dream, yes?

Unfortunately for Mom, her travel interests were history and museums, while CW was interested in shopping. So Mom spent way too much time waiting while CW looked at every item in every store, without buiyng much.

I remember in particular the CW wanted souvenir 'shot glasses' for her three children. We're talking 20 years ago, so there really weren't shot glasses then as there are now, but plenty of grappa glasses in sets of six. Well, CW insisted that she only needed three glasses and kept looking and looking and looking . . . These were the days of lira--a set of six glasses cost less than $5. Tired of this folly, Mom suggested that they split a set of six, and CW finally made a purchase. Mom's three shot glasses are sitting in my china cabinet right now.

My Mom is shy and unassuming. I wish she had suggested they split up for part of their travel time together. When you make your trip, do build in separate time, even if it's just to go off by yourself and sit in a cafe.

We have done it a few times and start b before the holiday with discussing the troops rations or what Mom would have wanted to know.

What is there view to beds, bathrooms, kitchens, eating out and money?

What do they like to do?

If these are not sorted then you start with the basics all wrong