Train from CDG to Normandy - help please
 

My sisters and I are arriving on a Friday in late July at CDG. I want to rent a car at CDG and drive towards Normandy and stay in Les Andeleys the first night. My sister does not want us to have to drive on the first day and suggests we train (she will be the driver, I will be the navigator, baby sis will be passenger).

I have been looking at SNCF and diebahn sites and it doesn't look very easy. Anyone else do this? Where did you go the first night? I am thinking Rouen and pick up a car but I would like suggestions. Thanks so much.

It is really easy to just rent at CDG and head north--you're already on that side of Paris. If you train to Normandy you have to go into Paris (money spent) and then take a train (money spent) to wherever you are going to rent your car. Rouen is only a short drive from CDG via the autoroute. We even drove up the north side of the Seine for a good way for some wonderful scenery. Checked into our Rouen hotel at about 6PM. Oh, I see you are talking about Les Andeleys which would be very doable--that was where we crossed back across the river.
We had even planned to stop in Giverney but drove on because it was raining so hard. I hope you can convince them that this is not difficult at all. I think the stress of getting into Paris and the train, etc. is much harder.
And in July you will have a LOT of daylight even late.

I probably should have given you a few more details because someone might have other suggestions as well. We will be going to Paris after Normandy. We have 10 days.

Sightseeing priorities are Giverney, Hornfleur, Mt. St. Michele. Where would be a good place to turn the car in? Rennes? My sister would also like to see Chartres. Should we train or drive to Chartres from Mt. St. Michel?

Gretchen, thanks for the info. I'm with you but sis feels that after flying in from Atlanta she will be jet lagged. I just think it would be so much easier to drive because the train does look like a pain unless we took a taxi from the airport to the correct train station in Paris.

How did you like Rouen? Where did you stay? I am hoping to plan it so we can be there on a Saturday for the market.

Gretchen has a great suggestion. If you want to see Giverny, it would be a short drive from CDG and you could stay there your first night. Then you could see Normandy and return to Chartres, leaving the car there and taking the train into Paris. Do you have an interest in the WWII sights? If so, Bayeux is a lovely place to stay near the sights.

Thanks, mamc. Yes we would like to see the WWII sights but I don't think I want to spend an entire day.

Still would like to know if anyone has done the train or knows how to do it from CDG to Normandy so I can give them options.

The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European Timetable. Table 11 shows that TGV trains with buffet cars leave Charles de Gaulle airport railway station at 0839 (daily), 1027 (Sundays only), and 1337 and take 1 hour 40 minutes to Le Mans. Apart from rush periods you can book at the station in the airport, but from 15 December to 5 January you should book in advance. I suggest you use an agency, by e mail, with a credit card or debit card. You can use Euraide in Florida, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...e/homepage.htm, telephone 1 941-480-1555 fax 1 941-480-1522 [email protected]). Also you can book through four firms in Britain:

Trainseurope Ltd, of Cambridgeshire and London, take credit card bookings by phone and mail tickets to any address. Have the widest access in Britain to rail systems and tickets. http://www.trainseurope.co.uk/ - E-mail [email protected]. Phone 00 44 900 195 0101 - calls from Britain cost 60 pence or 40 euros a minute, maximum 5, but if the enquiry results in a booking, the cost of the call is deducted from the final invoice. Phone Mon to Fri 10 to 5 British time

German Rail UK: www.deutsche-bahn.co.uk/ Phone : 00 44 870 243 53 63 then 6. Fax : 00 44 208 339 4700. E-mail : [email protected]

Ffestiniog Travel, site http://www.festtravel.co.uk, e-mail [email protected], phone 00 44 176 651 2400

Inside France (Canterbury). Phone 0044 1227 450088. 29/30 Palace Street, Canterbury, Kent, CT1 2DZ. Booking form on site www.rail-canterbury.co.uk/. Or e-mail [email protected]/.

For international tickets, berths and seats Trainseurope are ten percent cheaper than German Rail UK or Ffestiniog Travel. For domestic Italian trains they are cheaper again. German Rail UK are cheaper than Trainseurope or Ffestiniog Travel for domestic trains within Germany and may be competitive with them for international trips with a big proportion of miles in Germany. Trainseurope take Visa and MasterCard, but not Amex or Diners.

RailEurope take a thirty percent markup on standard prices.

[email protected]

Getting from CDG to Caen or Bayeux by train isn't really as rigorous as it may appear, even if you have more luggage than you can manage without a porter. The train to Normandy departs from Gare St. Lazare, in north-central Paris.

The most convenient way would be to take a taxi from CDG directly there. A cab will get all three of you there for about €50 (depending on how much wait time you have to buy). This is your best choice if your baggage is an issue. But there are also several less expensive options that will shorten your taxi ride by getting you into Paris proper before the meter starts.

A commuter rail line called RER B from CDG goes to Gare du Nord. From there, you can either change to the RER E to St. Lazare (which involves a little walking), or take bus 26 right to the station. The inclusive price is €7.85 for any RER method, with or without the bus. The RER involves going up and down stairs; the bus does not.

The Roissybus will take you to Opéra for €8.30 each, and a 5-minute walk later you're at St. Lazare. All other things being equal, this would be my choice for what you're trying to accomplish.

I think the car is by far the best option. To get from CDG to Rouen, you will have to get yourselves (and luggage) into Paris--St. Lazare station--and then figure out the train system. Do not underestimate the difficulties of dealing with the 3 L's: Luggage, Language, and Logistics associated with this effort. The train to Rouen will probably take 1 1/2 hours. In all, I would say you're talking at least 5-6 hours from the time you land at CDG.

On the other hand, if you rent a car at CDG, you can be on the road less than 2 hours after landing.

Here's an option.
You could drive from CDG to Auvers-sur-Oise, one-time home of Van Gogh. It's less than a half hour drive. Have an early dinner and get some sleep. Then continue on to Giverny the next day.

See Normandy and Mont St. Michel. As for drive or train to Chartres, the time is about the same for both...3 to 3 1/2 hours (from Rennes). I wouldn't go to Rennes except to catch a train. So, given the equal time and the need to change trains in Le Mans, I would opt to drive from the Mont to Chartres. (You could also do Chartres as a day trip from Paris.)

We drove directly from CDG to Les Andelys after a long flight from California--and didn't find the journey bad at all. The roads are good, the traffic isn't especially heavy, and Les Andelys (La Chaîne d'Or in particular) is a scenic place to spend part of the day and then the night.

I've often wondered the same thing that Rhonda is asking about - as I want to go to Normandy in the future. I get a little panicky about picking up a car at CDG - I much prefer getting the car in a smaller town. CDG is so big, and finding the car rental, way to autoroute, etc. (all those cars whizzing by so fast!) - especially after flying all night (and I never can sleep on the plane), well, my heart starts racing just thinking about it.
I would love to drive and stop at Les Andelys, too - but.....

Everyone sounds like picking up the car at CDG is so easy, but is it really??
Actually, I think there are car rentals at Vernon (the train stop for Giverny).
Has anyone done this?

Let me give you a different perspective. My husband HATES renting a car in Europe and we do everything we can do avoid it. However, he looked at your question and said, "Pick up the darn car at the airport right away--easy as pie to Les Andeleys." It truly is. The traffic is not bad there. Just make sure you both study the route OUT of the airport very clearly and review how to work the car and you'll be fine.

This way, you'll arrive at your hotel at check-in time and can crash if you want to.

Thank You All for the great information! Getting to the train in Paris is exactly what I thought! Difficult. I think I have talked my sister into renting a car at CDG. I have dropped a car at CDG before but not picked one up there. Sure it won't be too difficult especially after I consult Fodorites!

Underhill, I read your report on Les Andeleys and I want to go there too!!! It looks just so beautiful. In fact, that was how I enticed my sister - told her you can't get there by train. lol (You probably can.)

Ben, I think Le Mans is southwest of Paris. This would be an option if we went to Mont St. Michel first.

Amelia, your husband gave me a laugh. We got so lost trying to turn in our car at CDG but we did it! I have promised my sis I will get specific directions. She is coming from Atlanta so isn't quite as bad as me from CA.

Amelia, your post with your husband's comment almost gave me hope! Maybe I'll work up the courage. Anyway, I won't be going to Normandy for at least a year - my next trip is to the Dordogne in May, and that is definitely by train!

Good luck to you, Rhonda. Please report back here after your trip - I'll be anxious to hear about the whole trip.

Coming from Atlanta, I suspect she'll be fine. We arrived early morning from Atlanta and I didn't feel sleepy until that night. I think the adrenaline kicks in after landing. Frankly, we were more tired the 2nd day, so that might be a good time for a relaxing day in Giverny.

Ronda:

If your plane arrives at CDG early in the morning, there's no reason at all to be panicky about getting on the périférique and driving north of Paris into Normandy, whether you stop at Giverney or Rouen or wherever. Traffic on the Périférique is hardly daunting until after about 9:30-10:00 in the morning because it's rush hour. It's usually quite slow, in fact, except for the motorcyclists who are racing between cars and trucks at astonishing speeds. Pay them no mind.

You'll probably amble along at a slow enough pace to easily read signs and navigate until it's time to take the turnoff toward Normandy. Stop at either Giverny or Rouen for the night and call it a day.

This, to my mind, as someone who has done a zillion trips to CDG followed by either a train trip or a car trip, is the easiest way to go. After an all-night flight, getting into Paris, whether by taxi or RER (ugh!) or RoissyBus, followed by a train ride, followed by a rental pickup and short drive, is about 5 steps more in the travel process than you need to do and will prove far more exhausting in the long run.

Sure, you'll have a big adrenaline rush when you turn on the engine of that rental car and head out into traffic, but after a few kilomters, you'll know you made the sensible decision. Besides, you've got people to navigate for you - make sure you all get good maps ahead of time and study them.

I have not read all the replies. I did read one that said something about being nervous about getting the car at CDG. It is a NO brainer. Go to the desk (highly recommend AutoEurope) and let the very mannerly people help you. It took all of 30 minutes from getting our luggage.
I recommend returning the car to Orly, seeing Chartres on the way back from Normandy. Orly is smaller and closer to Paris.

You might want to consider returning the car in Chartres if that is your last stop before heading to Paris.

There is a car rental office right at the train station, just a few blocks from the cathedral. Sorry, I don't recall which rental company we used there.

If I remember correctly, the train Chartres-Paris is an hour and a half or so, into Montparnasse.

If you are able, try to arrange your time in Chartres so you'll include a Malcolm Miller tour of the cathedral. And you might want to bring binoculars.

k_marie, sounds like an excellent plan. I am also thinking we might stay overnight in Chartes.

Thanks again all.

To each his own.

My purpose is not to suggest that the driving approach is wrong, but only to point out the merits of train travel, which I feel have been overlooked.

I travel to relax, not to manage the logistics of automobile transport (including renting, returning, insuring, licensing, navigation, fueling, incidents, accidents, flat tires, and mechanical malfunctions). Everyone has a choice of what they do with their time and energy abroad, and <u>my</u> preference is to use them enjoying the sights and sounds and people and food rather than wrestling with traffic.

Furthermore: the most efficient way to see Europe is to travel at night, when the sights are closed and the landscape is dark, rather than using up valuable daylight hours moving from place to place. In a car, this means dealing with unfamiliar driving conventions and routes at night, a task that is difficult enough by day. In a train, it means getting to the train station in the evening, having a relaxing ride for two or three hours, and checking in at the next stop rested and ready to explore. (It also means you can have a little beer or wine with dinner, which is absolutely not an option in a car.)

Driving directions from mappy.com are very helpful, particular when autoroutes are involved. They show the signs to look for.

Robespierre, I agree that train travel is preferable, however, in this instance I believe the Normandy area would be difficult to see by train. If you have toured Normandy by train, I would be very interested to see your trip report or hear how you managed it.

As far as I can tell, getting from Rouen or Honfleur by train to Mont St. Michele would be diffuclt but you may prove me wrong. I'd like that.

My husband and I did the Loire by train even though everyone advised against it because he did not want to rent a car. We ended up spending a lot of time waiting on trains and trying to read schedules, etc. etc. and could not see all the places we wanted.

RonZ, I have been looking at viamichelin, mappy, and someone mentioned expedia which I have not been able to figure out how to use yet.

Here's my train itinerary:

First day:
Paris -&gt; Bayeux (trains @ 10:43,1 2:25, 14:57)
Bayeux tapestry &amp; cathedral

Second day:
Guided tour of D-Day museums and beaches
Lunch @ Port-en-Bessin
Bayeux -&gt; Pontorson-Mont St. Michel (train @ 17:14)

Third day:
Mont St. Michel
Pontorson -&gt; Rennes -&gt; Paris

I agree with Robespierre that train travel is more relaxing, and always prefer to do that for long distances. It's especially nice to be able to get a train right at CDG (say, to Lyon, Tours, Avignon, etc.) then enjoying the first city a day or two without a car.But since Normandy is so close, and you would definitely need a car there to see much, it's debatable. Getting to Gare Lazare seems a little difficult.
In the past, however, I have gone straight to Gare de Lyon or Gare Montparnassee from CDG using the Air France Bus - a breeze! And it's only around 11 euros. I still don't particularly want to get right off the plane onto the autoroute, especially if I'm alone. I would do that much more willingly with a navigator.

My husband used the maps section of the Expedia site to produce very detailed routes for us to use in September.

I would strongly suggest getting the VERY detailed Michelin map of Normandy. You never know when you may stray off the beaten track and not have an Expedia printout.
LeMans is hardly in Normandy.
I think you may want to spend a day seeing the WWII sites/sights. It is quite awesome. I have never particularly wanted to do it but it is truly amazing.
I also recommend the Green Guide (Michelin) to Normandy--gives many trips that you may not think about that coincide with the route you are taking.
Leaving the car in Chartres is a good possibility--or going to Orly to return and then taxi to your Paris hotel.
And as for sis, as I understand it, you are the driver. Her jet lag shouldn't be a real problem.
Rouen is an interesting city. Our hotel was not up to par so I won't recommend. Their museum has a wonderful impressionist wing.
Bayeux is a wonderful city on its own--cathedral and the Tapestry are not to be missed.

Gretchen, I go with both types. Looked for a Michelen map of Normandy at a couple of bookstores but didn't find one so will have to order it.

Robespierre, thank you for taking the time to make an itinerary. Looks possible but ..... not all the places I want to see.

I have found a lot of good information in the Fodor's Normandy book :).

That got posted accidentally before I had Honfleur and Giverny factored in. The former would be easily accessible from Caen. Depending on when I got out of CDG, I might aim for Caen instead of Bayeux, and make the 45-minute ride to the coast part of the D-Day tour.

Giverny is so close to Paris it's hardly juggling the whole itinerary to include it. I'd just hit it on the third day on the way back.

But as I said, how one chooses to tour is subject to personal preference and infinite variation. Once in a while someone suggests an approach that a traveler simply hadn't considered before, and that's all I wanted to do here.

I am still thinking about both options so your suggestions are appreciated Robespierre. We don't get in util 10:55. If we were to train, we could go into Paris, spend the night near the train station, leave the next A.M. Could go directly to Rouen or stop in Giverney. OR How about taking a taxi to the St. Lazare station, take a train to Vernon (Giverney), possibly see Giverney Friday, spend the night, take train to Rouen?...

I'm just trying to imagine doing this with my sisters. One is a good traveler but still likes to bring a big suitcase, the other is, welll, she is the youngest and never traveled. Likes to bring a trunk. I would have to whip them into suitcase shape. he he he

To maximize your use of daylight (of which there admittedly is no lack at that latitude in the summer), you might want to extend your first day in Paris into the evening (if you can keep going), and take the 9:20 to Giverny. You'll be ready for a good night's sleep and a fresh start in the morning with the logistics behind you.

At that point, renting a car would give you flexibility in making the sweep up along the coast from Mont St. Michel through Calvados to Honfleur, perhaps dumping the car in Caen and taking the train back to Paris.

I'm going to post one more time on this with some time info. We arrived at CDG at 8AM. Our luggage was somewhat delayed so we probably got to the AutoEurope desk at 9. We had an early lunch at 11:30AM in a little town just before Vernon. On your timetable you could be in Vernon mid-afternoon, see Monet's garden and check into a B&amp;B. Somehow that sounds SO much easier than taxiing into Paris (a 45 minute ride), getting a hotel and starting over the next day, or especially taking a late train to Vernon.
We just returned from Paris last month--by early evening we are really ready to have a bowl of soup and go to bed early. Next day we are on &quot;their&quot; time.

Gretchen,

I didn't mean to imply that we used the Expedia maps solely; I never travel with a Michelin map of the area we're visiting. The Expedia maps were a useful supplement, especially as they could be enlarged to make for easier reading en route.

Make that &quot;I never travel withOUT a Michelin map...

Hey Ronda--I don't want to stop the planning momentum here, but I wouldn't do Giverny in the afternoon in July. The tour buses roll in shortly after opening at around ten and don't go away until four or five. Think dawn or early evening attack. I'm serious.

You have a ton of options. Les Andeleys is what, 10 miles away? You could even go there for the afternoon/night and do a quick backtrack at dawn the next day. You could do Jeanne's Auvers sur Oise plan, you could stay in Giverny (we stayed at La Reserve right outside of town and loved it) and hit the garden/leave the next day.

I agree with Amelia about Giverny in the afternoon. I went one May from Paris (on a tour bus) - and you can hardly see the flowers for the people. Though a beautiful place, that wasn't too enjoyable.

And P.S. Try to get to Mont St. Michel either early or late - for the same reason, mobs of people.

I like the idea of going directly to Les Andeleys, checking in, perhaps relaxing, and see Giverney later. I'll have to check the times and see how late it is open.

Day One - Friday - Arrive, drive to Les Andeleys or Auvers-sur-Oise. See Giverney in the late afternoon. If not open, see on Sat. a.m.

Day Two - Saturday - Drive to Rouen, see old town and shop at Saturday market. Drive on to Honfleur. Spend night (where? Honfleur or elsewhere)

Day Three - Sunday - Drive down coast, see some of D-Day memorials, drive to Mont St. Michele, spend night.

Day Four - Monday - See Mont St. Michele, drive to Chartes, turn in rental car, see Cathedral and town, spend night.

Should we see Versailles while in this area or wait and do it as a day trip from Paris?

Day Five - Tuesday - Train to Paris
Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten - Sunday, Day 11 - Monday - Depart Paris.

I'm reading like mad and trying to figure out what all we should see. I have read about little villages in Normandy and those sound appealing. Got to get that map.

Checking on rental cars. Thanks again for the great info.

flagging

Ronda,

Speed reading, I note you asked where you should stay in Honfleur, my favorite town in France. This is fodder for a whole other string, but for me, the answer is the Cour St. Catherine, a delightful bed and breakfast in the historic district: giaglis.com

Where you should park in Honfleur is a whole other matter.