The REAL "Issue" About 'Dressing to Fit In'
 

I know it's been done to death, but....just reading a comment on the "Harry's Bar" thread about being sure to "pack my baseball cap" and so forth.

Does anyone in the US actually EXPECT visitors from other countries to "dress to fit in" and if they don't, are we stupid enough to kick them out/turn them away?

Obviously not so if one DOES wear a baseball cap in Paris so what?

Makes me wonder how self-confident some of the people who ask this perverbial "fitiing in" actually are much less how soon they'll be in small claims court with the neighbors again.

Hi Dukey,

Will I get fined for going topless on US beaches?

It does seem to be a peculiarly American obsesssion. I had never even heard the subject discussed prior to coming across this site.

The rest of us just wear what we want, and never care about "fitting in"

The answer is black, from head to toe and including all underwear. Black is it. No problem, wear black and you will NEVER be mistaken for a Yank tourist, even when you start to speak. Remember, black and nothing but black at all times and in all places.

Problem solved.

Sounds just like New York City fashion.

"The answer is black, from head to toe and including all underwear."

And the added bonus is that you can join a religious order.

"The answer is black, from head to toe and including all underwear.">>>

You might fit in, but people will think you're a mime artist.

No they won't. Mimes wear striped shirts and red neckerchiefs. and white socks and 'ballerina shoes'. so no mixing them up with the 'fitting in' crowd.

As a woman who usually travels solo, one important issue for me about "fitting in" relates to security. In my experience, the more I can look like a local, the less vulnerable I feel to pickpockets or purse snatchers.

I travel often to Italy; I love it there. I carry the same purse I use at home, I wear a lot of black (partly because it travels well but it also blends in) Generally, I dress the way I would in a North American city -- for example, comfortable but not sloppy sandals. No athletic shoes. No bulky backpacks.

Does it work? I'd like to think so. I haven't been robbed or pestered. On the other hand, someone recently told me that when his cousin from Milan was in Rome, someone tried to pick her pocket near the Capitoline Hill. So, being a relative local isn't always real protection!

I'm not saying that trying to blend in is a perfect system. But I don't think that it's a sign of weakness, either.

Would certainly fit in with the Ninja crowd!

People will think you're on your way to a My Chemical Romance gig.

One more time.

It isn't a matter of fitting in.

It isn't a matter of thinking you will be taken for a European/Asian/American.

It is a matter of dressing appropriately for the circumstances.

When I lived in Boston, I was perfectly happy to go to the local sub shop or Chinese restaurant for lunch in shorts and sandals. If I wanted to eat lunch at Locke-Ober's, I would have gone home and put on long trousers and shoes and almost certainly a jacket because the people eating lunch at Locke-Ober's are business people, dressed for business.

If I were in Paris, I would go sightseeing, shopping at a street market, or having lunch in a sidewalk cafe in casual clothing. If I went to dinner at a place that had white tablecloths, I wouldn't. Would I try to look French? Of course not, but I would try to dress as an American as formally as the locals are dressing in their own way.

Americans laugh at Germans in particular who wear dark socks with sandals. Sometimes it is very sensible to wear socks with sandals, especially fisherman's sandals, and dark socks are less conspicuous than light. But we don't do that here, so someone who does it is going to be regarded as odd and probably laughed at.

When I was living in England as a child, some East European refugee men wore beach/casual suits that looked like pajamas. People laughed at them, though at home they would have been in the height of fashion.

For almost all tourist locations anywhere in the world, it does not much matter what you wear as long as you stick to the tourist path, but once you want to go beyond this, it does. If you never want to go beyond the tourist path, wear whatever is comfortable and pleases you.

If you want to go beyond the tourist path, accomodate yourself to local custom, not by dressing like the locals, but by dressing at a level that would be considered appropriate by locals. Going topless on the beach here in the US is a perfect example. It may be comfortable, but it isn't the local custom.

But flesh-colored shoes (with gummy off-white rubber soles) are ALWAYS wrong. Triply wrong when worn with black socks. That goes for men AND women! In ANY country!

I think other posters have it right that we want to wear appropriate clothing that fits with the custom. I wouldn't wear a cocktail dress to Sunday School and I don't want to commit any similar fashion faux pas while a visitor anywhere, at home or abroad. I think we've all experienced the discomfort of arriving at a function to find we are way overdressed or underdressed. I think travelers are just trying to avoid similar feelings.

Dukey, is your standard of dress to wear anything as long as the people where you are going don't kick you out or run you away? Or is it to wear what you think is appropriate for the situation?

Would you be kicked out for wearing a business suit at the beach? No, but you wouldn't want to. Would you be run out of town for wearing shorts to a formal restaurant? No, but if everyone else was wearing something less casual, you might not want to be dressed in shorts.

For those who have not gone to Europe, and who have no context to make the judgments for themselves, and who turn to this forum to learn what is appropriate, these questions make perfect sense. It does not reflect on their confidence, only on their experience.

Ackislander and Misspie,

Very sensible posts.
Thank you.

PS I wear black at home , I always have, it is my " base" color( yes, I wear other colors too) . It travels well, so I have no intention of altering my choices.I am not trying to " look" like anything but me. Won't see anyone in Europe twice so I could care less, but, I do think "fitting" in or " fitting in the situation" are important , for safety reasons, and for cultural reasons.
I also bring runners, cause dany they are the comfiest.. even though I also bring the expensive all leather shoes made in Europe,, etc..LOL

wear all black and get mistaken for a New Yorker :)

some tourists never leave high school behind.....

And while I'm thinking of it...

Whenever we have these discussions, there are people who say nobody will notice what you wear. And there are people who say, "Anyone wearing white sneakers (or athletic clothes, or shorts in the city, or shirts with logos) looks ridiculous." So obviously there are people who do notice. And, amazingly, sometimes these seemingly contradictory comments are made by the same people.

My friend spent several months doing research in Russia some years ago, in the winter, and she brought her down coat. Perfectly stylish and acceptable in the US. She says that she had comments everywhere she went. And a woman came up to her on the street and said, "You'll never get a husband dressed in a coat like that!"

I do think it is a matter of "fitting in" many times, there are countless posts on here about folks bragging about how someone supposedly mistook them for a local because they were asked the time of day or something. They get a thrill out of that, I admit it is kind of odd -- I wonder if foreigners where I live would brag to their friends if someone asked them the time.

Okay, last weekend I was waiting for the metro where I live (Wash DC) and overheard a couple with a 20ish son waiting on the quay also, and they were French (speaking in French). They were clearly tourists and were wearing clothes fairly similar to what Am. tourists might wear with a couple exceptions. The woman had on capris, some solid color T-shirt, small day pack, and white athletic shoes (no visible socks) -- however, these were Adidas, the low sneaker-type style, not the big, honking white Nike things many Ameticans wear. The kid was dressed like any sloppy 20something in black jeans, crummy Tshirt, etc. (and was eating something very smelly which disgusted me, even though food is not allowed in the metro--neither he nor his parents cared about the rules). The man was a little different because he had regular long slacks/trousers on (something nondescript), NOT some type of cargo pants/shorts, etc., like many American men wear in hot weather. He had some nondescript walking shoes on.

I think for someone who has never traveled before outside their home country, it is understandable that you may not know what people wear elsewhere and you just don't want to look really odd. I sure wouldn't, either, I don't feel comfortable if I'm dressed really differently than others in certain situations. Part of that is appropriateness, but much of it is not, it's just custom and style. So if you've never traveled before, I can understand asking this question.

But part of it is due to some people not having much experience with the world, not even viewing other country's newspapers or watching the BBC news, etc., as if you did that, you would kind of see that folks in Western Europe don't dress so differently. Reading foreign fashion magazines is kind of a different level, and not really the same as the man in the street. So I do think people who ask this question are not really that self-confident, or they wouldn't be asking it. If you have traveled at all, you kind of know what people wear doesn't vary as much as you'd think almost anywhere in the world now.

how do you know they were not French - Canadians?

I don't care about fitting in - I care about how I look. I'm not some kind of diva, but I always dress nicely and I always have my hair done nicely. My friends are like me, the people I work with are like me - and we're all European. If I'm going somewhere special, I like to make an effort. It's for me....not to fit in, not to impress, not to look like something I'm not - because this is me, this is how I am.....and I'm not alone in Europe. You will find that many people dress up rather than down. I was up the alps a few weeks ago and had to wear walking trousers and boots during the day....it was such a pleasure for me to get out of them and get into a dress and a pair of heels for dinner every so often. I could not begin to imagine dressing like this if I wasn't half way up a mountain.

Ackislander,

You expressed my thoughts perfectly.

I also believe in the benefits of making an effort to blend in. Part of what makes travel interesting, beyond the sites, is the culture. And, to me, adjusting to the culture is just part of the fun of a trip.

I was in West Africe..no hiding that I'm a tourist there. But learning bits of the language, understanding what not to do in their culture, and making a little effort to blend in, just normal for me.

And, maybe, I might get treated a little bit better because of how I look. Call me a dreamer...

Maybe the "French tourists" were actually scam artists getting ready to double team yoou and get your fanny pack!!

Lawchick, I feel sort of the same way. My goal when traveling abroad is to appear as a nicely dressed American woman. Probably no disguising that I'm American, but nothing wrong with being nicely dressed either.

The "rest of us" talk about how "they" dress in NYC. But of course, the average foreign tourist hears me (another tourist) speaking English in NYC, so they assume I'm a New Yorker. So whatever I wear, that is what foreign tourists think New Yorkers wear. Of course, this could be happening to us in Europe all the time. The French person we observe in Paris may be there on a day trip from a rural part of France and may not be dressed like Parisians dress at all...but how are we to know?

While in Paris we went into a post office to cash some checks. Two of us were dressed neatly and apropriately and had no problem cashing our checks. The 3rd person in the group was not dressed so well and they would not cash her checks until we went over and talked with the clerk. We are all older ladies - the only reason must have been the way she was dressed. It does make a difference. You are made up of what you eat and also you are judged by how you look. Take the advice or leave it.

Along the same line as what bratsandbeer posted, while traveling in Maine, we were in line to buy something behind about the worst dressed couple I've ever seen....the guy had on a white undershirt with the sleeves cut out, which fit quite tightly over his more than ample belly, etc. You get the idea. They were buying things at a rather expensive shop, so they weren't dressed so badly due to poverty. ANYWAY, they were telling the clerk that they were so glad to be back in the US because the *$%#@ Canadians had treated them so badly. I couldn't help but think that they may have been treated badly because they looked like they were about to mow the lawn instead of traveling in a foreign country.

Canadians...rude? Impossible ;)

Lawchick wrote "It's for me....not to fit in, not to impress, not to look like something I'm not - because this is me, this is how I am.....and I'm"

How nice for you.

"It isn't a matter of fitting in, it is a matter of dressing appropriately for the circumstances."

Since appropriateness implies a standard to which one should conform, and conformity is just another word for 'fitting in', it seems that it is, after all, a question of 'fitting in'.

You simply dress for the occasion as you would in New York, Boston, Paris, San Francisco and other major cities. In the villages everyone dresses casual. As many have said they will not look at you.
I saw quite a few parisiens dressed very outre.

re: <<wear all black and get mistaken for a New Yorker>>

Am I reverse-colorblind or something? Eight years of living and working here, and I still don't know what people mean when they say everyone here wears all black. WHERE are you seeing that sea of black? I see every garish color combination on the streets, and they can't all be tourists!

re: <<nobody will notice what you wear>>

How many of you like to take photos of beautiful landmark buildings when you travel? Which of the following tourists distract less from the photo-- these http://images36.fotki.com/v1179/phot...11B2806-vi.jpg or these http://picasaweb.google.com/chance17...11350615509682 ?

Christina, see a cultural misunderstanding has occured.

First those tourists you saw were in fact likely french Canadians, we ( Canadians) have no hang up about eating in public, and there are no rules here about it being a no no on the metro, or buses, so , if those tourists did not speak, or possibly read english, how would they know they were breaking a rule?? You saw the boys parents didn't seem to care, why would they when they were oblivious to the fault. I bet we ALL do something when we are in other countries that the locals think is a bit tacky or rude.
How many of you drink your Starbucks when you march down the road,, in Paris drinking coffee is still considered something one should do sitting down.

So its not just clothes that set us apart.

Missypie,, that man you described is exactly what an "ugly" looks like,,, the undershirt and ripped out armholes just made me gag thinking about it,,

I approach the question a bit differently: I appreciate the chance to enter other countries, I repect their history and achievements. I dress and behave in whatever way I think will convey my repect for their culture. I see myself as a guest and recognize their right to tell me I am not permitted in their country.

<i>But of course, the average foreign tourist hears me (another tourist) speaking English in NYC, so they assume I'm a New Yorker.</i>

Nah. They can still tell your not a New Yorker.

<i>You simply dress for the occasion as you would in New York, Boston, Paris, San Francisco and other major cities.</i>

Not sure about this. Boston is a pretty casual city - there are only maybe 2 or 3 restaurants in the city where I would not feel comfortable in jeans - Au'jourdhui (sp?) and L'Espalier come to mind. Grill 23 says that jeans aren't allowed, but last time I was there, roughly 1/3 of the restaurant was wearing them. And only a handful of the financial types wear suits - even much of Fidelity is business casual. San Francisco is even more casual, in my experience, with suits being very, very rare, even at work. New York can be a bit more formal, but I still usually wear jeans when going out.

Paris, on the other hand, is really quite formal during the workday, so jeans will be a dead giveaway that you are a tourist (or at least not working). I still usually wear jeans. And I am still almost always first addressed in French. I must look like an unemployed local! How Bohemian!

I just don't get the point of trying to &quot;fit in&quot;. Sure, be respectful of things like covering arms in mosques, covering your head in a synagouge, and (for the German woman I saw yesterday in Koh Samui) not going topless in places where it is deemed inappropriate. But, Western Europe is largely devoid of such religion-inspired prohibitions, so why worry about whether your tan pants should be black? Or that a fedora looks more &quot;local&quot; than a baseball hat? Waste of time, and chances are that you will get it wrong anyway.

To my way of thinking, there's no occasion happening on the streets of London as I pass by that's any different than the occasion when I walk down a street in my hometown. No more need to impress a stranger than a neighbor. For me, the occasion is about what I am doing - something I think is right for an art museum, regardless of home or away, something decent for a nice dinner, or for sitting in a park. Basically, for Europe, I pull the same clothes out of the closet I wear all the time anyway.

In my case, I don't wear a ball cap anyway as I'm not balding. Always thought I'd feel like I'd failed to grow up if I went around in shorts all the time, so I don't wear them here or on trips. I figured grown managed up until the 60's to wear pants anyway and so can I. I don't think the same of others though - just what I like and don't like on me. Honestly, I have no fashion sense... so that helps. Black khakis; greyish, burgundy or mid-green or black whatever button up shirt. My timberlines that sort of look like decent black shoes until you look at them from the side... they have sort of a boot sole. I go for a hike, come back and clean them up... go to dinner. It's not classy, but hey, it's honest and they're still in good shape. Besides, the things are indestructable and have walked me around 5 continents so far. Since I only take the one pair of shoes, they're it.

Now when I go someplace really hot (tropical or desert places), then I do sort of take &quot;speciality&quot; clothes, since I don't live in one of those climates. I change up to thin, long sleeve shirts the air can blow through but keeps the sun off, as locals do as a practicality, and light colored pants to reflect heat. Although wearing a dark shirt for going out for the night is a good idea for someplace like Central America in the hot part of the year (hides the fact I'm sweating like a beer mug). Learned that from a show about Latin dancers, haha

I don't see what the fuss is about. It's not so much wanting to 'fit in' as not wanting to 'stand out' as a tourist - especially if your wanderings take you out of normal touristed areas (which of course for real travellers, they would).

Sacc had it right. &quot;Not standing out&quot; is more about security than anything else. We've had people ask us for directions in all sorts of places that are foreign to us. We don't get a &quot;thrill&quot; or want to &quot;brag about it&quot; as one poster suggested, but we do get some satisfaction from knowing that we are not standing out as prime targets for pickpockets, scam artists, and the like.

Entertaining posts...thank you! Few humans pay any attention to what others wear or look like. Tourists rarely travel in 'high culture' venues. They are on the streets. Locals on the streets are coming and going from such activities. Athletes wear specialized gear. 'Buffaloes' try to imitate them. Men wear baseball or billed caps for two reasons. They cover baldness and are an inexpensive sun shield. Maybe the strangest sartorial fashion is the buying and wearing t-shirts emblazoned with a Coca-Cola ad. Marketing ploys have inveigled other humans to become free billboards. The tuxedo was invented to standardize dress at semi-formal events. Uniforms denote occupations. So what is a tourist uniform?

cigalechanta wrote: &quot;wear all black and get mistaken for a New Yorker&quot;

Or, as has happened to me more than once, a catholic priest.

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies.

I've been traveling to Europe rather regularly for almost 40 years now.

As to 'security&quot; and being pickpocketed, that has happened to be once, on the Barcelona Metro where I was wearing the usual Rafael Nadal &quot;shorts&quot; along with a LOT of other Barcelona men and the typical shirt which I had BOUGHT at El Corte Engles; I even had on very typical european shoes.

My conclusion is that I was targeted because I wasn't paying attention and not because of how I did or didn't look.

All of this discussion is more food for thought (or is it &quot;amusement&quot;?) anyway, what is far more disturbing to me is the Fodorite poster comment some months ago, and I quote:
&quot;I don't like large hotels; I feel intimidated walking through large hotel lobbies.&quot;

Perhaps we can save THAT one for another day.

Cheers, all.