The French are getting a bad rap!
 

Is it me or am I the only one has not come across a rude French person? I'm tired of hearing friends and relatives say things such as they were reduced to tears at some store where the clerk was nasty them! Or the butcher wouldn't even acknowledge them. Which France are they in? I have been treated very well in all areas of the country--and particularly in Paris!! They've gone out of their way to assist my husband and myself and my french is weak believe me.

Just indulge me please in this quick story. Joe and I were slowly desending down from the abby at the top of Mont St. Michel. It was a blistering hot day and my asthma was bothereing me, so I was ecstatic to see a Coke machine to my left! Ahh ,Joe, I say I'd love a coke [bear with me here]. So I attempt an easy manuver called "turning to the left" and promptly twisted my left ankle on the little sliced out section of those stony little streets. I whirled around and landed with a lond crunch squarly on my right knee. The pain was
unbelievable--I mean searing - and I just couldn't move no matter how Poor Joe tryed to help. Well within SECONDS the french shop owner's brought me a stool to sit on asked me if I needed anything, brought me Ice--couldn't have been more wonderful. The same thing in the ambulance --the kid in the back with me insisted on practising his english on me and I wanted to review my weak french on him, but I was in agony so I backed off. He very sweetly chatted on trying to talk Joe and I into buying a stone Norman farm house! I was getting pretty caught up in the idea but the look on Joe's face, sheer panic, made me squlech the idea for then.Actually we would be at the tiny little hospital soon and I was getting rather panicked.No reason to-- the entire E.R. and X-ray staff were the kindest most sensitive people I'd ever met.They took great care of me when I returned to the hotel a few hours later. And my hospital bill=25.00!!

Have never met a rudie in Paris either-- just kind ,helpful people who were perfectly willing to speak english to me if they heard my fumbling french.I read 3 books recently--Almost French, French Toast and the funniest one yet Savoir Flair,by Polly Platt. She gives the best insights about the French, especially the Parians whom I adore.They can't help if they're cultured and like to dress nicely to go to the grocery stoor! A little style in the street never hurt anyone!
Mai Oui?

Has someone met the "Sterotypical'' rude French?' If so under what circumstances? I'm not saying they don't exist-- it's just that so many other stories I've heard just sound a little exagerated as if they're are trying to perpetuate the rude Parisian myth!!I can't help it --I think the french are gettin a bum rap! What say you dear Foderites? Remember, all the rudies are with me here in N.J.!!!

I know someone who is a native French speaker (Quebecois) with family from Corsica. He's visited Paris many times. He says that it's true that a couple decades ago, this stereotype was true, and he personally witnessed English speakers being treated badly. But he says things have changed, they know that tourism is important, and it's just not the case anymore.

To a certain extent, any bad event will be random. If, hypothetically, 1% of French sales staff are rude, and someone meets a representative of that group first thing in Paris, then I suspect that will color the rest of their trip.

My experience with Paris customer service was mostly positive, except for the shortchanging waiter and the amorous waiter. Then there were the bracelet guys, but that's a scam issue rather than customer service.

In over 40 years of travelling to France several times a year, I've yet to encounter a single example of rudeness in normal visitor encounters (which is not to say the French, when you get to know them better, aren't as capable of being unpleasant as anyone else). Or to hear of rudeness from anyone I trust

HOWEVER, many French people have low tolerance of stupidity - especially self-important stupidity - in others. And many see no reason to disguise this, even in circumstances where the phoney "customer service" fad might lead more servile people to keep quiet and hope for a tip.

It's a near-infallible rule that people who claim to have been maltreated by the French are themselves insensitive, arrogant boors.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a doctor in the UK.

When I told him I lived in France, he launched into this tirade about how awful the French people are, how rude they are, and how badly he was treated when holidaying in the South of France many years ago.

He then went on to explain that while there, he went to the butchers to buy a cut of meat for dinner, and the butcher had the "nerve" to try and tell him how to cook it! The doctor took this as proof of the French arrogance and condescending attitude towards British people: he thought the butcher was implying that he didn't know how to cook and was highly insulted.

I tried to explain to him that it was nothing to do with him being British, that French butchers always give you tips on how best to prepare the meat they sell, even holding out different cuts of raw meat for you to inspect or smell. It's one of the joys of shopping in France, in my opinion at least. But no, this doctor simply saw it as proof that the French are anti-English.

He then went on to tell another story about how a waiter "deliberately" refused to understand his accent when asking for a Cointreau after a meal, and wouldn't bring him the drink, and then had the "nerve" to speak to him in incomprehensible French.

I suggested that perhaps the waiter had been trying to explain that they didn't have Cointreau (some restaurants only have a wine/beer licence) but there was no convincing him.

Some people are so paranoid or over-sensitive, or even just so keen to have their misconceptions confirmed that they'll twist anything to suit their preconceived ideas.

Times have changed too. I first went to Paris in 1963, when the political situation was by no means calm, to put it mildly, and in a hot August when most Parisians were out of town, anyone who had to stay and work might be forgiven for a bit of grumpiness. Then and later in the 60s (particularly during les événements in 1968), there was a marked difference between Parisians and people elsewhere in France.

The silence from the usual chorus of Fodorite ultra-nationalist posters on this issue is absolutely deafening.

What is unfortunate is the probable number of people who read the "staff was rude" posts here and buy into them/

Hi lexie,

I was in Paris in 1991, and I had really liked the people. To me, Parisians were like New Yorkers (where I grew up). Not rude, but not small-town friendly, if that makes sense. They'd help if you asked, otherwise, they left you alone (I think this is why some people think French waiters are rude).

I try to dispel the stereotype any chance I get!

Karen

Sorry, but I must disagree. I can only speak from personal experience but after visiting France, the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and the Czech Republic, I can honestly say the French were without a doubt by far the rudest of any country we visited.

Allow me to tell you a quick story. We were travelling with my Mother In Law who likes the safe feeling of travellers checks. Every morning we would stop at a little bank near our hotel where she would exchance enough travellers checks into cash for the day. They were snotty from day one but by day three it went from bad to worse. The cashier waited on her customers till my Mother In Law reached her turn in line and then said something in a very rude fashion, slammed her little "use other window" sign up, then proceeded to stand right there and light up a cigarette and blow smoke our way. Feel the French love...

We would ask for directions and were pointed in the exact opposite direction we were suppossed to go. This happened often enough that I started asking two different people the same question and would wait till I got the same answer twice.

Rude subway attendents, noxious smelling passengers. The list goes on and on.

Don't misunderstand, I loved Paris. I believe it's one of the most beautiful cities I have ever seen. I could spend a month in the Musee d' Orsay alone, was amazed by the Eiffel Tower at night, awestruck by the splendor of Notre Dame, etc. But in our case the sterotypical rude Frenchman (or woman) was alive and well.

Cheers, the turnip

I was in Paris last week, and as I noted in my trip report, we never met a rude person. When I came home and told that to my friends, they did not believe me. Of course, these non-believers have never been to France. Isn't it funny how people who don't travel think they know so much??

I have a ton of friends who chastized me for going to France the last couple years. They rant and rave about the horribly rude French who all hate us. But all these people have one thing in common. None of them have ever been to France.

I, also, have seen a major change in the attitude of Parisians to foreign visitors.

On my early visits, in the 60's, I found a certain coldness. By 2000, I found Parisians rather friendly, even outgoing.

((I))

P_M, we were posting together. We must have the same friends.

The butcher story above reminds me of a friend who was also a travel agent and used to rant at us for going to France. He once told me about the horribly rude Parisian waiter who walked away from him and refused to serve him anymore, when all he did was tell the waiter that the red wine from the cellar was too cold and should always be served room temperature. A French waiter taking offence at a polyester clad American tourist telling HIM how to serve wine. Imagine that!!!

I have traveled to Paris since the early 1990's. The French attitude was already changed from bad to good by then from what I read here. I must admit that within 13 years of random visits, I have encountered about two unpleasant Parisians-not rude. One was cantankerous and the other, a young guy who looked well-educated refused to speak English (even after asking him in French if he spoke English). Whatever their reasons I took it as one-offs because the rest of the Parisians have been welcoming. Going back to that silly guy who probably was just embarrassed to speak English, on the other hand, I met a Parisienne who did not speak English. And she did her best to give me directions.

Just have to say that to me you can find 'rude people' everywhere and not only in France. I encounter more rude people at home than I ever did in my visits to France.

Our experiences parallel those cited. My high-school French brings smiles, but the Frenchmen we have met know that we are at least trying to bridge some unseen gap.

Once, while at Pere LaChaise Cemetery in Paris, a Frenchman took us on a brief tour of the more prominent graves after seeing us struggle with the little map we had. He introduced himself at the end, raised his hat, and disappeared.

But, on another trip, my wife and daughters had a desperate need to use a country gasoline station's restroom. I had no need to buy gas, so bought none. Not knowing the local custom that either pay one way or the other, we were surprised when the station's lady owner set her big German shepherd dog on my womenfolk. Almost scared the **** out of them. Live and learn.

Anyone who really cares to understand the behavior of a different culture, in this case France, should read either or both books:
Savoir Flair; French or Foe - by Polly Platt
Culture Shock-France - Sally A. Taylor

We really do live in a paradigm and it can be very illuminating to learn the cultural roots to another's behavior.

For instance, it was explained that the French feel obligated to give an answer to a question; it is better (in their eyes) to give a <i>wrong</i> answer than to say they 'don't know'. Hence, sending someone off in the wrong direction.

The French love to help you but you must indicate that you need help; otherwise they would never insult you by suggesting you can't resolve your problem.

Many many more examples of the differences inherent to our and their behaviors are explained.

Yes, I have met rude French people. And Korean people. And Japanese people. And Italian people. And Canadian people. And Costa Rican people. And American people. And Mexican people. And German people. And Austrian people. And Panamanian people. And various peoples of the British Isles. Etc., etc., etc.

But I've met far more nice people in all of these places.

I have been to Paris every decade since the 60s - some decades several times. I have never understood the impression that many Americans seem to have that the French are rude or unfriendly. I try to convince friends, who would go to Paris except for their fear of the rude French, that they will love Paris and the French are friendly and helpful. Those who go are pleasantly surprised; those who don't remain ignorant. It is not unlikely that over years of travel to France or anyplace in the US or abroad, one will encounter brusque or even rude people from time to time but no more in France than anywhere else.

I was also in Paris last week and did not encounter a single rude person. Yes, there were people that were busy (swamped with customers) and yes, there were those who didn't understand a word we said, but none of them were rude. I'd agree with others who say that its just your typical &quot;big city&quot; environment. No one walks down the street and wishes everyone they see a &quot;good morning&quot; but that doesn't mean they are rude. The hotel staff was especially pleasent and accomodating even if we were saying in a tiny hotel far out of the &quot;touristy&quot; arr.

Patrick, I'm not surprised we were typing the same thing at the same time. I believe you and I think alike in many ways.

....I hope you're not insulted by that....heehee....

Wow- great stories! and observations everyone ! [Hope my spelling's a better now that I'm awake.]
Patrick, I've been through the same thing- the people groaning about the French haven't been there- or to Europe at all for that matter.Someone once said to me &quot;France doesn't have police stations like we do here-- just one big Central thing!&quot;What would possess someone to make a statement like that!!! Makes ya want to cry doesn't it? People refuse to believe me about my experiances which gets frustating.They insist we're only being treated well because we are tourists and they want our money.
True, one bad experiance can color the rest of the trip but I try advidly not to let that happen. I'm sure eventually I will run into someone rude eventually of course,it's just the sterotyping that drives us nuts!
Turnip, I do feel badly about your experiance though.Not pleasant.

One more quick observation-- the complaint that the French refuse to speak English to us.That's probably because they don't HAVE too! We're the ones in their country and should respect THEIR culture. Anyone who speaks English to us in any country is doing us a great courtesy !! I'll shut up now.

LOL, people are forever whining about the french. Our recent brief visit was the most pleasant yet, out of the dozens of times in that lovely city. It seems apparent that the biggest moaners at the most infrequenet travellers. I also find that the better hotels lead to a generally more enjoyable experience, given the better service and amenities. Sometimes it pays to spend a bit more rather than cadging every cent or sou.

Me spelling stereotyping wrong is driving me nuts too.

People who describe an incident involving a rude person in a foreign country and then try to generalize that to the entire population always make me laugh. Have they never run into a rude person in their home country? Would they judge their own population that way?

Similarly, people who visit for a week or two and never have an incident use that as proof that rudeness doesn't exist. Actually, they were probably just lucky.

The bottom line is that you can run into a rude person anywhere in the world. All that means is that you met a rude person. One of the things that makes travel so enjoyable is that the vast majority of people in the world are quite nice among themselves and to foreign vistors.

Agree with above who say that there are no more /no less rude people in Paris than any other large city. My experience is that if you are polite and go in with the attitude that I may not understand the culture so must not try to judge, everything works out.

What irks me is people who go over there and assume that since it's a large, &quot;Western&quot; country, therefore things must be the same as back home.
For people who say that the French are rude, my three questions would be : have you ever been, preferably more than once? where they more/more frequently rude than other large cities you have been to (including those in your own country) and lastly, is it possible that there was a cultural reason for how they behaved?

If a French person came to America, should he expect to be able to speak French, anywhere? Should he expect the local store to take euros? Should he be wrong to be put off when you offer him corn on the cob (&quot;we feed that to cattle back home?!&quot; as a previous posting once pointed out :)

Frnace and Paris have a DIFFERENT culture than NA, people need to realize that... better in some ways, worse in other ways, the same in some ways, different in other ways....

It's NOT back home, and that's one of the reasons I go. I don't travel to bring my country with me wherever I go.

But yes, there unfortunately will be rude people, and if they are encountered in Paris, shame on them, but shame on me if I generalize because of that.

Before my first trip to France, I too heard tale after tale about the rude French. Guess I went to the wrong places because I never experienced rudeness in either Paris or Provence. Now I'm planning a trip to Quebec City and am hearing tales of extreme rudeness from people there. I may experience a rude person at some point, but I'll bet that I'll come home loving QC as much as I love Paris.

I think you guys are missing two big issues:

1. For many Americans, their first big-city experience is Paris. Therefore, much of the trouble they run into is caused by not knowing how things work in a big city (why is everyone so rude? Because you are HOLDING UP THE WORKS). The culture and language barriers don't help, either.

2. Allow me to explain the Joe Hatefrance responses to these questions:

&quot;If a French person came to America, should he expect to be able to speak French, anywhere?&quot;

Of course not, the international language of business is English. French is a dying language, only hundreds of millions of people speak it. It is reasonable that labels in the Museum of Modern Art in New York are English-only, but a horrible burden that the labels in the Louvre are French-only. Also, all French people speak English like Inspector Clouseau. They are just pretending not to to be rude.

&quot;Should he expect the local store to take euros?&quot;

Of course not, no one wants that funny-looking money. Foreign Exchange markets are all lies, the US Dollar is the most desired and valuable currency in the world, everyone wants to use it. The Euro is a curiosity, like Disney Dollars. It is reasonable to expect to use US Dollars in France, just like in Tijuana.

&quot;Should he be wrong to be put off when you offer him corn on the cob&quot;

All normal people eat well-done steaks, corn, and potatoes. Maybe they eat Pizza dipped in ranch dressing on special occasions. Anyone who does not eat these things is being difficult and pretentious. It's OK to tell waiters the chef cooked it wrong, but not OK for the waiter to tell you something is eaten in a certain fashion.

Hi QC. Loved the Joe Hatefrance comments-- right on the mark!

re the title, the French are getting a bad rap! Because they have never met any French People.

TravelerGina, I think Canadians as a rule are the nicest people in the universe, and that includes the Quebecois. (Hope I'm not setting you up.)

Next are Spaniards: imagine a guy leaving his bus line heading home for lunch to walk us to the Puerta del Sol, though astounded that we were going to take the subway only one stop to our hotel. (Friend had full leg cast; I trotted along beside the guy while she followed: clump, CLUMP, clump, CLUMP!)

But the French are almost as nice, almost sweet (in that case perhaps not in Paris). For example, the guy in the porcelain store in Arles who went to the PO during lunch to find out how much it would cost to ship our teapots and stood waiting, peeking from behind the curtains, for us to return at 2:00 so we could pay for it all.

I love the French and have been shown countless kindnesses in Paris. (As well as experienced the occasional brusque or businesslike big-city dweller.)

Hello gentle readers. I have been reading this thread with interest although unfortunatly I have never been to France.

But let me tell you this. I have had the same comments that all of you have had regarding France for Italy

Surprised? Well don't be. The comments over all the many years have been from people who do the &quot;Today is Tuesday it must be Belgium&quot; tours, or go to Italy without any idea or knowledge of their customs, their heritage their culture.

As others here have stated, every country has grumps (are not we to sometimes feeling grumpy), rude people (now that we never are ;;) ) etc.

So many post have been written regarding different culture differences such as &quot;the waiter didn't bring us the check&quot; because they did not know in Europe one is not rushed out the door when the meal is finished. You ask for the check. And on and on.

Italy, I wish I had a hundred dollars everytime some dope said &quot;but how can you feel safe in Italy with the Mafia&quot;.

My point is this. Just ignore all the negative comments regarding the country you are traveling to. The naysayers have no clue as to what they are talking about.

:) loveitaly, so-o-o true!

I've made more than 65 trips to France, and yes I've encountered the odd rude, aloof, uptight French person, but if I'd made 65 trips to Nebraska I bet that number would be the same or more.
It IS true that more than 20 years ago there were more of the stereotypical &quot;rude&quot; French waiters than there are these days, when everyone has figured out that being rude doesn't bring in the euros as fast as being charming. Go to Chartiers if you want a taste of the &quot;old, rude France.&quot; It's a hoot.
Besides, it's just a Paris thing. It's a big city where people are rushing to get places and late for meetings and dealing with crowds. Outside the city in the countryside, you couldn't find more hospitable people.
That said, there is a certain &quot;edge&quot; to French people that rubs a lot of Americans the wrong way. I've had countless conversations with French people in the service industry that ran along the lines of me asking a question and getting a response that was &quot;c'est impossible, Madame.&quot; I've learned over many years to immediately question the French person's &quot;it's impossible&quot; response and to suggest alternatives until the French person concedes that it may not really be impossible after all. The French like to argue, albeit goodnaturedly, and when I'm in France and meet with resistance, I like to argue goodnaturedly, too. I usually end up getting what I was looking for and with no hard feelings on either side.
I was also blessed with an education that taught me French from the age of 7, so I can go at it with them in their own language, which usually subdues them pretty quickly. But I don't even have to employ that strategy very often any more because where I travel in France the vast majority of people are invariably incredibly sweet and kind.
I think that old myth is just that. I find certain other European nationalities to be far more unaccommodating and rude, if you're going to make generalizations, which I'm not fond of making.

SergioL, tell us more about your &quot;recent visit&quot;, or should we do a search using the name TravelLaughter? Or should we do a search under &quot;things I made up under one of my many screen names&quot;?

Well spotted, Patrick.

Hi LoveItaly--glad to hear you're feeling better! I get Mafia comments all the time simply because of my Italian heritage--talk about generalizing! I do believe you get the same nonsense about Italy-I've heard it all also and it disgusts me. You are right of course, we should just ignore all of the negative ,ignorance but sometimes it just gets me sooo mad!

Hello Lexie, yes dear I am finally over that terrible virus. It was really awful (whine, whine). And as my Italian grandmother always use to say, the only thing good about feeling sick is you really appreciate it when you are not. Too true, LOL.

Now about the stupid and ignorant comments regarding Italy and Italians. I have lived with it all my life. Will not go into details as obviously with you I do not have to. But oh yes, it can get me soooo mad. Usually I hold my tongue but from time to time I have not. You know how that goes, an ignorant comment on a really bad day and one cannot keep silent any longer.

And I have not have been to France, but the few people I have known here in California from France have been beautiful.

I also have by marriage relatives from Russia. Have had comments about that too. They are such beautiful and loving people.

I guess lexie all we can do is just ignore ignorant comments and thinking, as hard as it is to do sometimes.

Take good care and be proud of your background.

Hi StCirc--oh you are sooo lucky to speak French so fluently ! If I am not being too intrusive, may I ask you where you were educated? I can only argue in my own language-- o.k., maybe a little bit in Italian.

Thank you all so much for your keen insights and your very articulately written stories. They were such a pleasure to read. I'd better bone up on my story-telling skills!

QC, I agree with you completely,especially in your first statement--&quot;we're holding up the works!&quot; My husband has stated similar observations--he feels the lack of our linquistic skills in a large city is enough to drive anyone to a somewhat impatient comment now or then. Not with the intention of being rude, it's just that they're busy and we're fumbling along.Nobodies fault really, just the way it is in large cities.

Preface-I do not speak French. Chapter One- My first trip out of this country (less the typical spring break to the southern islands)was to Paris. I was traveling alone and meeting a friend. I made it through the airport and to the Roissy bus no problem. Bought my ticket from the bus driver and proceeded to find a seat on the bus (like I would do here). Wrong! Driver was trying to drive and instructing me to do something: I'm confused, he gets frustrated, I get more confused, he yells, I begin to panic and think rude French. Adorable young Frenchman took my ticket, validated it, handed it back to me, smiled to ease my panic and motioned for me to now sit down. Chapter Two- My friend takes me to Place Vendome: I am staring at the column, car comes within two inches of me honking, the crazy man inside is swearing in French. Friend says &quot;do you mind getting out of the street!&quot; So that is what those two foot high silver round things represent. Chapter three- Friend takes me to dinner at a nice restaurant: Menu is in French so friend does the speaking and ordering. I'm gazing around when suddenly the waiter extends his hand in front of me. Like any polite American would do, I shook his hand. He then politely states in English &quot;No, the menu&quot;. I blush, friend and waiter laugh, I blush even more, another waiter brings a glass of water, people at nearby tables begin to chuckle, I cover my face, a third waiter brings a pitcher of water, my friend states &quot;they are not laughing at you they are laughing with you.&quot; Skip ahead to chapter twelve- bought a French phrase book, learned the phrase &quot;I do not speak French&quot;, always getting little smirks before a reply in English. One day, eighteenish year old clerk corrected my grammer. I asked her what I had been saying all this time. Translation &quot;I don't understand, speak French!&quot; ---Chapter Twenty two- Standing at the corner of Champs and Concorde: Strangers (tourist)ask me if I will take their photo. I attempt to take photo, Paris Police Officer with big gun asks if I speak French. Stated &quot;No&quot;, his response &quot;Leave now!&quot; Rude-No, Language barrier-Yes, Security issue- Most DEFINITELY, I immediately realized the background in the picture would have been the American Embassy/Crillion Hotel/ect. depending on where they stood. To a tourist-innocent. To a law enforcement officer-possible terrorist threat/info gathering. Skip ahead again to chapter twenty four- I've learned how to dress, walk, and give the appearance of a Parisian now. Nice spring day in May of 2004. Picnic lunch with friend in Luxembourg gardens. Young college age couple come up to me (I must look like a professional photographer)stumbled with their 1/2 English 1/2 French asking me to take a photo of them in front of fountain and how to work their camera. Took photo, they thanked me, another young college age boy immediately approached me and stumbled with even worse French and asked me to do the same thing. Friend sitting on park bench finally states &quot;You are so bad, why don't you just speak English to them.&quot; Point to this story. I have come full circle and seen Americans/tourist through the eyes of the French. Disclosure-these really are true incidents.