Well, let me say this: when you hear an announcement of that type, on an American carrier, or a foreign carrier whose last point of departure is for the US, then there is a reason for it.

If everyone was checked and there was a distinct rhyme and reason to the materials that were allowed on a plane, then the whole thing would be a non-issue.

Interesting the points that <i>were</i> made in the article that seem to be taking a backseat to the issue of profiling:

- Multiple carried on articles not checked by TSA
- There were <i>several</i> air marshals on board?? Not a common thing, so someone knew something was already going on - yet everyone boarded and took off.
- The flight attendant told passengers - unofficial passengers - about the presence of these air marshals. Holy cow, she is some judge of human character, eh?
- No one slips in to see what he took in the bag to the lav??? All these air marshals and no one goes to poke around in the trash bin or kleenex box in between visitors to see what's left in there. <i>She</i> sees all this, but the crew and the gov't officials don't.

Interesting... certainly the big story here is why they aren't profiling middle-easterners more closely. Or is it?

Again, missing the point. The writer's emotional reaction to what she was experiencing may in fact be over-reactive-that does not alter the rest of what I said.

If it matters at all, this announcement has been made by United for the past year.

Clifton: yes! that is what the true point of the article is, (whether one agrees with it or not is a separate issue) and like I said previously, it is a seriously debated issue even with the 9/11 Commission, of which we should hear more, perhaps next week.

Yeah, I kinda got that that was the point of the article. Understood it too. My thinking, (I think) is that if the other points that I made had answers, it wouldn't make a difference what nationality they were.

Playing percentages sounds great but honestly, I think I wouldn't feel any better if my plane was in a nose dive because on a political agenda or because young Bobby thinks that all FA's remind him of his mother and has decided to stuff his orthopaedic shoe with plastique to show them all a thing or two. I'd just as soon that there was a system to catch 'em both.

I don't see what an announcement about not standing in the aisles has to do with terrorism or racial profiling - it's just courtesy and common sense. BA made this announcement long before 11 September 2001 (many Americans seem to feel this date is a milestone, but for Europeans, it's really not). I'd like to see US airline security up to par with EU standards, but I believe it has improved a lot over the past few years and will continue to improve as funds and expertise become available.

Personally, I don't see how racist invective of the kind put forward in the article Eurotravler linked helps the cause of defeating terrorism in any way. Could some of you that defend it here - Spygirl, perhaps - please explain? Thanks.

And not one single passenger got up and mingled with them while they were gathered at the toilet to see what was going on? . . hmmm

Rich

Really, I'd have thought that anyone reading this far-fetched story would straightaway feel the need to check the author's bona fides and demand supporting evidence. If you were a terrorist and were planning a dry run of the type described, would you fly en masse and go out of your way to act so absurdly suspiciously that everyone on the plane would be in a state of hysteria? This story is patently absurd. Its breathless &quot;the sky is falling&quot; tone and blatant internal contradictions are typical of the alarmist urban myths that infest the Internet. And it neatly reflects the Right's worldview - we're all under dire threat because of wimpy civil rights provisions, and this democracy nonsense must be curtailed NOW.

So far I've been spared exposure to Ann Coulter, which sounds like a mercy. But I'd take a lot of convincing that Fox News or any of Rupert Murdoch's many media tentacles was either fair or balanced. Murdoch's press empire is known for two things: trashy sensationalism and right-wing politics. Balance is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

I know Rupert Murdoch also owns much of Sky News right? Sky news is the British version of cable news that I have seen in several hotels in past visits in Europe.

British Skynews was the only other internation cable news carrier that I could actually stomach watching other than Fox News (fair and balanced.

I remember on one trip, my hotel had CNN Europe only. After watching the anti George Bush garbage, I was ready for some fair and balanced news.

I now try and get hotels that have Fox News or Sky News.

Little John on Sky News is GREAT!!!

He is similar to Sean Hannity or Bill O' reily in some ways, excepy very British :))

I knew that when I saw this post, that the ultra libbies would come out of the woodwork and make this thread political.

Sun( I knew it. I just knew it. No, I am not a Bush supporter. I will vote Libertarian, but I think many Libertarisns support Bush's measures on terorism) Star

Rich--they probably were afraid that their throat might get cut open by a box cutter, or a steak knife from the airport restaurant.


As to who are the terrorists and the profiling issue, yes there are many terrorists of various ethnic or religious backgrounds around the world, but some terrorist groups are more likely to commit their atrocities in a particular country than are others. Sure, there are red-headed or blonde, white-skinned IRA terrorists--but they aren't very likely to attack in the USA, so screening for them on USA flights would be a waste of resources. Yes, there were the Hutus and Serbs and others, but again, the USA was not a big target for them. So screening for these groups would also be a waste.

It's a matter of motive and opportunity. Which groups have a strong motive and opportunity (money, organization, resources) to hijack aircraft in the USA and crash them into office buildings? Hutu fanatics? No. The IRA? No. Basque separatists? No. Middle Eastern Moslem extremists?....Gee, you think maybe? That is profiling, and it is perfectly fair. When the Federal Building in OK was bombed, members of white power and various bizarre right-wing religious groups were rousted out by law enforcement groups all over the country--profiling? Yes. Was it wrong to do? No.

There's nothing wrong with profiling, as long as your profile is correctly based on actual potentialities.

&quot;Rich--they probably were afraid that their throat might get cut open by a box cutter, or a steak knife from the airport restaurant&quot;

Would that be a bad alternative compared to crashing into a building or field? ? ?

Rish

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;There's nothing wrong with profiling, as long as your profile is correctly based on actual potentialities&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

No, there certainly isn't, but to some ninny nannies in the PC police, we must n0t do this.

As I said, the people who have caused most, not all perhaps, but most of the major terrorist acts around the world in the last 3-5 years do seem to be Islamic.

Picking out Granny from Peoria and shaking her down just to satisfy the PC crowd seems silly and pointless.

Yet, I have seen this happen.

I have been asked many times to remove my shoes. I do not gripe about it because I think stronger security measures at airports is a good thing.

But why let a person with a Middle Eastern appaearance go past without additional security measures for the sake of PC profilling meaures is silly and downright DANGEROUS!!!!

Sunstar,

Odd that if everyone is bashing one name, you're the only one who has actually mentioned the name. (just to be fair and balanced)

I have flown both domestically and internationally quite a few times since 9/11, different airlines, Southwest, Delta, United, Czech Air, charters.

I don't recall any of them NOT preventing people from lining up at the front lavatory. If anything, they have seemed a bit overzealous about it.

Of course the latest news is AL Quida is recruiting Europeans and Africans as their next group of terrorists...I guess EVERYONE needs to watch their water intake before boarding a plane.

Wheww!!!!! This reminds me when the winners at an award of a big Bollywood hit last year were returning from, I think,LA to NYC. The group, the leading Bombay star, actress , director and others were chatting loudly and a passenger thought they said something pertaining to our security. The poor folk were held for several hours after landing. I spent a week-end in Houstan and on my return flight was seated behind a beautiful Hindu lady. Every time she went to the toilette, she was followed. She told me since 9/11 her life has never been the same.

I must say, as the wife of a man born in the middle east and the mother of four boys of Arab descent, that this article and this discussion is disturbing to me on many levels.

In my gut I have my doubts the article is entirely true. (Check out www.snopes.com.) Still, the visceral reactions that such stories provoke...I hurt for my husband and sons. But, as we told our boys after 9/11, it's up to them to show that not all Arabs are bad or scary. So in a way, stories like this, true or not, encourage our boys to be even better humans beings - and yes, American citizens.

My husband has said more than once, &quot;If profiling me means you'll catch the bad guys - then profile me.&quot; But it doesn't mean that it feels good.

Often when I read something that sounds inherently dodgy I check it out on a site dedicated to exposing urban myths. It's surprising how much stress and frustration you can save yourself that way. It's too early for a final verdict as to Jacobsen's story, but keep your eyes on:
www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp

Sunstar, the &quot;ultra libbies&quot; (whatever they are) didn't make the thread political - it started that way, as the article on which it's based is implicitly political. If that article proves to be inaccurate, distorted or even phony, then the political intent may well prove to be quite explicit.

The worrying thing is that few people pause to subject what they see and hear in the mass media to sceptical thought - the immediate reaction of most is to believe it lock, stock and barrel, much like the story about the golfer eaten by a crocodile in Florida. As a noted American named Jefferson said, &quot;people who expect to be ignorant and free expect what never was and never will be&quot;.

mebaneese. I feel so sorry for what your family is going through.Words do not lift there agony at the moments of
of their UNWARRENTED discomfort. It's like back to the old days when we interred the neisai.