Some Helpful Hints for Posters
 

I have to admit, I hate looking at a thread title and not knowing what it is about. I also hate opening one and thinking 'what the hell is this person doing.'

So, I thought I would provide some honest help for people to get the most out of these boards. I doubt it will stick around long so enjoy it while you can.

1. USE MIXED CASE. Not all caps regardless of what you prefer. If you use all caps, you will always, 100% of the time get flamed. It's not polite, it's not acceptable and it's not a matter of personal preference.

2. Give a clue. What I mean is use a title that is telling. You'll attract people that can help you or respond and allow others to get on with their lives. When you start a new thread, you get to pick a country or region but threads are obviously not sorted that way. An example: if you want driving directions from the Rome airport to Via Veneto don't title your message "Driving Directions"; instead at least use something like "Rome: Driving Directions." Get it? It helps us all out and will improve the change that you will get help.

3. Tell us more. Tell us what you have done thus far in terms of research. What books have you read, what websites have you used. That will let us give you information that you haven't tried yet and, frankly, reduce the chance you get flamed for wanting a fish instead of learning how to fish.

4. Tell us more, again. Tell us what you like, what you're interested in and what you don't like when you're asking for suggestions on eating or site seeing. Give us budget constraints or special occasion information.

5. Teach yourself something. Don't just come here and expect everyone to do your work for you. Google is a great tool that will answer much of the preliminary questions asked. I've done it myself, but now I know better than to come here and ask for the train schedule between Rome and Venice...I now search and pick my moments more carefully on this board.

6. Give back. Once you're taken, tried everyone's patience, and let everyone here plan your trip come back and give us a trip report or some helpful information that will aid the next person in planning.

That's it for me.

I have one more to add.

Take suggestions like those above in the spirit they were meant -- which is to help you get the most out of this travel forum. Don't take helpful comments on improving your post as insults or attacks on your "newness".

Nice job, mdtravel. It is a bit annoying to see posts that offer no idea of what the person really wants. Annoying because I think most of us really do want to help each other out, yet it is made more difficult without a reasonable idea of what the post is for.

If I may elaborate on your comments regarding budget restraints, it truly is helpful if an inquirer says hotels "in the $80 - $100 range" instead of "reasonable." We all have different tolerances for what we wish to pay, not to mention incomes, and strangers don't know what "reasonable" means.

Finally, I know I made my rookie mistakes, and I've learned from not only my own but have had the benefit of learning from others.

It would also help if you indicate your foreign language abilities, if that will affect how you will deal with the place you are going.

HI--not sure if you are a doc who travels or a person from Maryland who travels but either way your suggestions are "just what the doctor ordered". However, even in my relatively short time of participating here, ~7 months, I know that your good advice will not be heeded.

I used to open vague posts and now I am just too "jaded" to even want to!! If someone cannot think out some rudimentary info to put in their post, I just no longer have enough patience to bother investigating further. I think it is really nice of you to spell out some basics--I tried myself once--and it did not make a bit of difference.

The very first time I posted, we had pored over guide books and then stumbled on this site. We could not decide if we should go to Rouen or Strasbourg after Paris. I titled the thread "Rouen or Strasbourg". Anyone opening it has some idea of what the topic is. But when I see things like "critique this itinerary" I have no idea if I am interested--and more to the point--if I am qualified to help at all and so I disregard those posts.

It does not seem to be so much an issue of being new to the board as it does to just employing common sense!! Would you say to a toll booth operator on the turnpike, "I need directions" and then wait for him/her to coax the request out of you? Sorry if I sound cranky, but it seems to be gettting worse and worse lately on this board. Too many hopelessly vague queries!!

Sorry, but apparently a lot of people don't share your difficulty with "looking at a thread title and not knowing what it is about."

The perfect example is the recent one entitled "g." Lots of people opened it and responded.

I'm sure your own post was well-intentioned but if you haven't yet figured out that getting "the most" out of these boards varies widely among individuals then you may be the newbie here.

TopMan, just was bored watching football and tired of reading posts like 'room with a view' and 'critique my itinerary.' If it helps me feel better, then mission accomplished!

I'm neither a doctor nor someone from Maryland...just my initials + travel and it corresponds with an email address that I have setup strictly to receive travel related emails from airlines, hotels and the like.

Again, I wasn't trying to flame anyone. Rather, your odds of getting the answers you want go up if you help us help you.

I'm going to bump this thread periodically...until I get tired of doing so at least.

Good Post, MD.

>6. Give back. Once you're taken, tried everyone's patience, and let everyone here plan your trip come back and give us a trip report or some helpful information that will aid the next person in planning.<

Or at least post a "Thank You".

Socialworker -

I love the toll booth analogy. Recognize that most people who don;t provide info do it out of confusion or througtlessness - but some have admitted that did it deliberately (to ty to get the most useless answers???).

Really, most of us are here to try to provide info/help (even if sometimes with a little sarcasm) not provide amusement for the merely irritating.

This thread should be required reading.

I'll never, ever be able to understand why a few people object to the friendly suggestions of how to make posts better. Why in the world would they think it is somehow BETTER for all the other people to just ignore poorly posted questions than to help the posters post better questions to begin with? What is it about people that makes them fight any type of improvement?

I don't usually care how many "clueless" questons are asked or are asked more than once, but the response of some newer posters can get me riled...when someone in REAL LIFE is helpful, is it not the thing to do to say THANK YOU? and would you ever rely RUDELY or in an INSULTING way? Then why respond here in that manner?
I have seen so many regular posters answer the same question over and over, and sometimes someone comes back with the snappiest rude reply.
That will never get you anywhere.
Be Nice.
( and leave out the trauma you went through in high school when compaining about the posters here, no one cares)
LOL Scarlett

Hey Scarlett--you *really* piqued my curiosity re: high school traumas. Did I miss something somewhere?? Clue me in!!

How many posts could a poster post if a poster posted good posts?

Isn't this supposed to be a web site for casual information exchanges? There are no life or death decisions made here the worse that can happen is you might have your second choice for a hotel room.

If you don't feel the fun of casually helping out a fellow traveler go do something else on the computer. I think some of you take this way too seriously.

Until I read your post I had no idea that one could get "flamed" on a message board. Guess I don't get out (or on) much. Some of us are here for a specific agenda; when we're finished, we'll be gone and out of your hair. Perhaps there should be a board for people who simply love to travel and talk about it, in addition to one of shared advice/experience?

And I very much appreciate the gracious answers to my fumbling questions.

kswl, as far as I can tell, your post topics & questions are always very clear - I doubt anyone here would flame you. You keep asking questions and we'll try to help!

I don't think I said these were life and death decisions, nor did I imply this to be anything other than casual information exchange.

To quote myself:
"So, I thought I would provide some honest help for people to get the most out of these boards. I doubt it will stick around long so enjoy it while you can."

If you'd like to avoid some of them, that's fine but don't expect everyone to read your posts.

Here is todays' list from the top 50 that are a bit to ambiguous:

"Cell phone rental"
"Prague" - ok, this one has provided a hint
"cell phone rental" - different posts
"International cell phones"
"international cell phone rentals" - I see a pattern emerging
"rent a cell phone"
"scam alert!"
"helpful hints"

<<If you don't feel the fun of casually helping out a fellow traveler go do something else on the computer. I think some of you take this way too seriously.>>

My opinion - - and nothing more than that, so don't take this is some big "pronouncement" from me, or fellow Fodorites, "on high"...

I do take this website seriously, and while I used to be sheepish about it, it's an obvious and simple fact, so I am okay with acknowledging it now. This is my number one hobby - - and yes, I have a life, and it is full of other hobbies (and some work).

And "poor quality" posting does hurt the overall experience for everyone (okay so, perhaps only in a small way) - - by driving up the "frustration level", and conversely, driving down the "enjoyment level".

If it was just an issue to "us regulars", then a reasonable reply might be "geez, can't you just grin and bear it? it's not that big a deal"

But to the extent that it discourages "newbies" from coming back, or participating vigorously, it is a big deal. Newbies are the lifeblood of the forum; without them, this forum would be sharply reduced to a bunch of old farts sitting around rehashing previous experiences with each other, or talking about upcoming trips with increasing snobbiness, or arcane interests in more and more subtleties of Europe travel.

We need "fresh virgins" (and not so virgins) constantly joining in here to keep it all alive, current and infused (some) with the wonder, the awe - - and yes, the stupid questions - - that come with "joining" our "community" here.

Badly posted questions or inadequate message headers or any other "mis-etiquette" breeds hostile answers, or smart alecky answers (yes, I have provided my share of those) and generally, a less friendly and welcoming place to come back to...

What we need is gentle ways to help newbies post better, and diplomacy when even veterans (sometimes in their enthusiasm, either pre-trip, or post-trip) do an awkward job of posting.

It's an important way of making sure that the "Welcome wagon" really does say "Welcome" here.

Best wishes,

Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana

Yes, I see your point, Rex. It is better all around for someone - especially a newby like myself - to post sensible titles.

It just looked like so many of you were getting their blood boiling that I wrote "don't take it that seriously" and I say that to you too. It is not worth getting a stroke over but I seem to think that anger with vague posters comes from another underlying cause.

It is postively amazing, LOL, to hear the ones who rarely travel (and then to only the most pedestrain places!) but recycle their one trip over and over again, to sign on and pretend top be senior, all-knowing lectuer on site mores, LOL, a big one. We all know the ones, don't we. Others post here who apparently do nothing except eat on vacations. LOL, it's OK, vacations can be acceptable weight gain occasions, I suppose. But do ease up on the degree of certitude and pomposity.

I don't know. I try to cut the newbies some slack. I remember what it was like to be a newbie here. I will forever be grateful to posters like Ben Haines who had the grace and patience to answer my initial bumbling questions without making me feel like a total idiot. So I try to remember that style of treatment/attitude when I respond to the newbies.

I'm a "regular" and this is not an issue to me. What IS an issue to me is how we as regulars respond to the newbies. I think the burden of the content of this forum lies with us, not with them. If we run them off with our rude, smart alecky answers then we have only ourselves to blame. It isn't as if new posters are given a handbook on forum etiquette before they join.

Perhaps by starting this thread you feel you are just helping new posters out but I have to tell you that the content of your message just comes across very negatively:
"I hate looking at a thread title"
"'what the hell is this person doing.'"

If I were a new poster, I would be very offended by those comments. I would feel embarassed, attacked, and most likely would seek a new forum. I find it even more offensive that you listed specific thread titles as examples so that it almost seems a personal attack against that poster. Couldn't there have been a kinder, gentler way to show the newbies? That's all I'm asking.

And, no offense, mdtravel, but just exactly how much more specific do you need a topic header such as "international cell phone" to be before you'd respond to it? I think it's a fairly self-explanatory title. Did you need the country in which it's to be used? I'm not feeling your frustration right now. If I see, for instance, "Paris hotels", then I peek inside. If I then see that it's specifically about the 7th with views of the Eiffel Tower, I don't get upset about it and think I've been duped. I just think, well, I don't really know about this subject and move on. There are sooo many threads I don't look at just because they're about places I've never been. Even vaguely titled ones generally give me a hint as to which ones I can avoid. But even if I see one so vaguely titled as "cheap hotels" I don't get upset about those either. Again, I just take a quick peek to see if it's something I might be interested in or can respond to.

There, that's my 2 cents (or centimes). :)

It is daunting to come to this forum for the first time, seeking information and to be scolded.

I found this web site by Google and it looked like it would be a fun site run by crusty old timers who traveled alot.

This is actually one of the most kindest, modest and mannered of sights on the web and you all seem to be adults.

I have spent two days now reading back messages and find some very very amusing, some very very interesting and informative. Keep up the good work, some of you are sure tireless~I find this a very unusual place.

There are certain types of posts that I may well be qualified to answer, but out of disgust and weariness, choose not to anymore. My current peeve is the post which screams "URGENT - Leaving for __________ tomorrow! Need restaurant recs., sightseeing ideas", etc. O.k., so you bought your ticket, booked a hotel room but...did nothing further? Well don't expect us to finish your homework for you. Shell out the $15.95 for a guidebook, for the love of mud.

For my two cents -

It does help everyone if the posts are as clear as possible. And explaining to someone - in a civil way - how to do a clearer/better post should be accepted by everyone as a positive response. (Really, anyone wanting only positive/smiley responses to everything they write should not be posting on a public board.)

What bothers me are the few - granted very few - who become abusive (I don;t know if deliberately, or if they simply don;t realize how rude they are) to queries to clarify post, or answers they dont; like.

The other things I think we all need to consider are:

1) What works perfectly well in spoken conversation may not work nearly as well in wiriting - and I know many of us - me included - don;t have the time to reconsider or polish or even spell check replies.

2) There are hugely different conversational styles (verbal and written) in different parts of the country/world - and even among different groups of people. What is acceptable to some is extremely grating to others (you can;t imagine how many times I have held a response to a query that was confused, incoherent or simply really bad english - a holdover from my job where one of my responsabilities is to try to teach juniors to write what they actually mean - rather than ramble around it in cirlces.)

(To anyone who has been offended by my "rudeness" or sarcasm - I apologize - but be aware that I am being super gentle here - versus the tone I would employ among friends/family/colleagues. For us, a sentence without sarcasm or irony is a lost opportunity. Everyone does it - it denotes merely an active mind - not meanness towards others. A truly evil remark is often greeted with "good one" by the object. It does, however, require that everyone understand the game being played. Sometimes, apparently, my efforts to tone down comments are insufficient for the most delicate of mind.)

But - its' only my two cents

<<It isn't as if new posters are given a handbook on forum etiquette before they join.>>

I continue to fault Fodor's for failing to at least give new registrants some clues as to how to get started using and enjoying the forum. they have their e-mail addresses, and send them an acknowledgement of their registration. To fail to inform them of the "click on your own name" tip (NOT even mentioned in their own own help/FAQs) is arrogant and inexcusable.

"a sentence without sarcasm or irony is a lost opportunity."

:D

&quot;<i>I continue to fault Fodor's for failing to at least give new registrants some clues as to how to get started using and enjoying the forum. they have their e-mail addresses, and send them an acknowledgement of their registration.,<i>&quot;
I agree, Rex, really I do. In fact, I thought last night it might be a good idea if Fodor's DID include these helpful hints (although gussied up in a gentler fashion) in the &quot;welcome to Fodor's&quot; e-mail. However, BECAUSE that hasn't happened, I cut the new people some slack. It isn't their fault if they don't know how to approach this forum. It's just that there are many, many different computer comfort levels of people reading &amp; posting on the internet. Some don't realize there are unspoken rules and some don't have the savvy, patience or time to observe the cues.

Trust me, NYTraveler, I'm one of the most sarcastic people you would ever meet outside of this forum. And like your family, our family enjoys a game of repartee, riposte, rejoinder one-upmanship. But like you say, one keeps that verbal sparring within the confines of groups of people that one knows. I tone my responses waaaay down on this forum. Many, many times do I hold my tongue, just because I realize that it may be taken wrongly. And then I remember what it's like to be new and uncertain.

And NYTraveler, I don't recall anything you've done or said that's offended me.</i></i>

Jocelyn , great quote :D
socialworker, email me and I will fill you in :)

tieurown - posters who use countless screen names, such as blacktie, R&amp;R, PCHsmiles, HappyTravels , Leone, etc..can hardly expect anyone to take anything they say seriously. Especially when one uses more than one screen name in a single thread.
If one could only settle on a name one likes and stick with it, which might also mean one will have to try to make sense when one posts.. one might get more out of the forums than just an occasional LOL.

&quot;It is postively amazing, LOL, to hear the ones who rarely travel (and then to only the most pedestrain places!)&quot; quote from tieurown.

We beg your pardon. Is there a certain number of trips or miles away from home which must qualify one for posting? Or perhaps one should have holidays approved in advance before asking a question?

No, that won't work, because one apparently must know the answer before posting the question. Damn.

Closing an uninteresting thread takes a nano-second and is one click.

One.

Click.

I have learned a great deal from this forum and will continue to visit here. I read it regularly but post seldom and only if I feel I have something to add. This time is an exception.

Patience is a wonderful virtue and thankfully, there are many on this forum who are quite blessed with it.

Oh, Scarlett, I wish I could take credit for that quote, but that was from nytraveler's post on this thread. I'll have to work that into conversation somehow...

socialworker,
there were a few threads a few weeks ago, where people who had been posting only a couple of months, got together for a Whine-O's thread.
Some complained that regulars were like a &quot;high school clique&quot; and others were upset because they could not differentiate humor from insult.
This is one bit that I found that can give you an idea of what posting advice and trying to keep a sense of humour will get you ... sometimes..
A Poster wrote:
<i>&quot;Some of the so-called sweet Southern belles on this board can be cutting and sarcastic. They do not get called on it because they are part of the clique. &quot;</i> thereby starting a Who is the Southern Belle B*tch and who else can we target.
Even when the boards were un-registered, I enjoyed the craziness and the amount of info we can get here. So however people want to post here is fine with me, as long as they attempt to control their mean streaks :D
LoisDe ~ <b>Bravo</b> ~
Jocelyn, I see my mistake, Great quote nytraveler!! I will use it whenever I can too :D

It's a ROFLMAO moment when tieurown begins his post talking about people who &quot;rarely travel and then only to the most <i>pedestrain</i> places&quot; (and who &quot;apparently do nothing except eat on vacation&quot;)....then ends it by admonishing, &quot;But do ease up on the degree of certitude and pomposity&quot;. That is just too funny!

bump

I agree that Fodors might expand their FAQ with more tips and hints for new posters &amp; explanation of the mechanics of the BB, so the poor things don't each have to ask &quot;what's ttt?&quot;!

Personally, I'm of the don't-like-it, don't-read-it school of BB use, so am not overly upset by negative poster's comments, threads that get closed, questions that have been asked and answered a million times.

My pet peeve of the moment is when the OP disappears. I mean it is downright embarrasing that I am more interested in the budget Italian honeymoon than the honeymooners themselves (meant most kindly).

PLMN is a perfect example of number 6. I nearly went crazy trying to help get her suitcase packed but couldn't resist the threads, now in return am reading a delightful comedic serial of a family touring Rome. It's a hoot and a lovely return of favors.

bump for new users

mdtravel,
While that was a great and useful post however I think the only ones really reading it are those of us regularly on the board and can only feel for you. :)

My turn. I really think it's helpful when paragraph breaks are used on lengthy posts. It helps the readability immensely.

I really appreciate it when the original poster comes back after their trip and comments on the threads they posted their questions.

Sorry I missed this the first go round. Lots of good info.

-Sharon

bringing this message back up &quot;to the top&quot; for bodhijack...

Nice post md, but there are still these pompous know it alls who try to make the new posters unwanted. How about a new one directed at those dragons.