Awww...did I hit a raw nerve? <BR>You aren't, perhaps, a SMOKER??? <BR>Actually, to abolish the death penalty would be regressive, maybe when the USA allows euthanasia, as in The Netherlands, will we be "coming on"!

The original question was a very good question and on my trips abroad I have found that people smoke more than in the States, but I have found that there are no smoking areas and could request no smoking rooms. <BR>I understand both sides of the issue, but I will have to say that I certainly did feel a live and let live attitude abroad and less judgemental. Because of the fanatical anti-smokers in the States you find alot more people that say they are non smokers, but in reality they are closet smokers, smoke cigars (so they are smokers) or smoke OPC (other people cigarettes.) I have found this is a debate that is usually not worth argueing. I find some people who are so against smoking don't worry about the pollution. By the way, have you ever wondered why statistically it rains more on Sat. than any other day of the week, b/c of pollution and factories and businesses poor it out all week and the consequence more chance of rain on a Sat. than on a Mon. <BR>

Just want to say... <BR>Sweden is the first country in the world <BR>taht has reached the WHO target for the year of 2000, that the % of smokers should be less than 20%. This target was reached last year... <BR> WASA

As an ex cigarette smoker, who's habit is now restricted to an occasional over priced cigar(smoked outside on my deck), I would like to make a point. When cigarette smoking I could hardly wait to land, enter the Frankfurt or Munich airport and light up. I was pleased with the way that the Europeans diidn't infringe upon my freedom. However, since quitting I have changed my opinion as to my desire, but not that of others. I recognize that Europe, is not America, and therefore things are just different. If the Poles want to smoke like chimneys, I'll either have to get used to it or go somewhere else. If they don't have separate sections in restaurants to accommodate my needs, then guess what I'll either get over it or go somewhere else. I don't like smokey rooms either, but I don't have the right to change the way of life of others, I just must adapt or go somewhere else. I fly Delta and I'm pleased that they are smoke free, but other airlines are not, it's obviously about choice. I do not understand, however why the smoking "police" want to concentrate only on smoking. Why not boycott French food due to fat and cholesterol leading to heart disease which my tax dollars must treat, why not boycott German beer and French or Italian wines which may cause alcoholism, liver disease and associated treatment with my tax dollars, why not boycott....(fill in the blank)...? Why just pick on tobacco makers, how about taking away all of my choices and soon I won't even be able to enjoy an Egg McMuffin and a cup of coffee! <BR>

At first I thought I would keep out of this potential war zone, but no such luck. Eating fatty foods has an impact only on the eater. Smoking pollutes the air we all breathe. If the person next to me is eating 100% cholesterol, I do not suffer directly, but if the person next to me is smoking, I get his or her cancer-causing second hand smoke. And don't try to tell me otherwise. Too many scientific studies prove it. <BR> <BR>And people who smoke around babies are guilty of something if not child abuse. <BR>(That should serve to touch off a good one. But smokers are in as much denial as alcoholics. "It ain't my %^$ problem; it is yours!") <BR>

Thank you Bob. You are 100% right. I am pregnant, and could care less if the person next to me wants to kill himself eating fatty, cholesterol laden junk. However, it is a completely different issue when that person lights up a cigarette and exposes both me and my unborn child to the secondhand smoke. And no, I do not want to hear anyone say to me that I should then just move away. Should I be the one to restrict my activities so some smoker can selfishly continue to poison the air? I think not. You are right, Bob, smokers are in denial.

Bob and Ilsa, <BR>I think that you may have missed the message of my post. Perhaps I didn't communicate effectively. I too do not like smoky rooms, etc particularly since I am allergic to cigarette smoke. However, unless you can change the habits of millions of Europeans, then you'll either have to accept it or not go as they will not be as accommodating as in the US. . As far as the fat and cholesterol, I recognize that you can't spread that to others. My comment was intended to reply to an other post that stated that tax dollars were going to be used to pay for medical costs of smokers. Guess what those tax dollars will also be paid to cover the medical costs of drnikers and other folks with heart disease as well. <BR>

The bottom line is, non-smokers have two options; either ask the offender to put out the cigarette or move. If you ask, most people will accommodate. In a crowded Covent Garden restaurant, the people sitting next to us were smoking. My mother turned to them and said "do you mind not smoking while we eat our meal." They had no problem with that, and once we finished eating they started smoking again. By that time, we were ready for the check. <BR> <BR>But it doesn't always work. At JFK airport as we were departing for Rome, an older man starting smoking in the waiting area right underneath the No Smoking sign. When my sister approached him and asked him to put out the cigarette, he pretended to not understand English. We laughed about it afterwards because at least we had the guts to approach the person instead of suffering in silence. In Rome, I was eating with friends in a nice restaurant. Just as our main course arrived, a couple sat next to us and began lighting up. One of my friends has very sensitive eyes that the tiniest bit of dust or smoke makes them red and itchy. I leaned over and asked the couple to put out the cigarettes. They were very offended and indignantly asked the waiter for another table. But you know what, WE were able to enjoy our meal in peace. <BR>

<BR>As a U K resident, I have to say that in this country at least, the no-smoking message is at least getting through somewhat. Most people respect no-smoking signs in bars, buses and trains. If they don't, then we complain! {There is an apocryphal tale about a carriage full of passengers on a train who, in true Brit style, suffered in silence whilst a couple got very frisky in the corridor, but who staged a revolt when the two lit a post-coital cigarette beneath a no-smoking sign.} <BR>Nearly all flights in the U K and to/from the country are no-smoking, and the price of cigarettes is extremely high, at over $5 a packet. Still, some people like to pay that. Our government has pledged to increase taxes on tobacco above inflation every year, so watch that price rise. The only good thing is that the money goes to fund our health service, education system etc. <BR>You can nearly always request no-smoking rooms in hotels and no-smoking tables at restaurants too. <BR>So that's smoking. But have you ever considered just how damaging pollution from cars and, yes, planes can be? Jets EAT kerosene and as passenger miles continue to increase, then so will pollution. Likewise with cars, buses, coaches and {diesel} trains. We all love to travel and we all hate pollution and the ill-effects it causes, but let's look at the whole picture. Smoking stinks, full stop. But unless we travel wisely, and encourage our tour operators etc. to help us do just that, then all of us are implicated in some form of possible environmental and health damage. <BR>So...write to your local politician. Contact the airport/airline/tour operator and ask what they're doing to stop pollution figures rising, or ask them how YOU can help do that. <BR>Happy, healthy travelling!

Just returned from Holland. It was impossible to find anywhere that was smokeless. After two days, sick as a dog with bronchitis, they have no respect for others, and even smoke on public transportation. Be careful. It is worse than South America, anyday.

<BR>1) I am a non-smoker <BR>2) Smokey atmospheres do disturb me <BR> <BR>OK, but what I dislike above everything (even tobacco smoke) is fanatism and the use of scapegoats, not the best friends of democracy. For some strange reason, tobacco has become the scapegoat for all health problems in the US. It used to be alcohol in the 20s. Now, in California, somebody can leave a bar totally drunk and take his car, nobody will object ; but if you drink an orange juice and light up a cigarette : sin ! Even though my life is more at risk with the first customer than with the second one. Some respondents contend that eating fat only harms the person eating : how mnay times in the States did I have to change seats, in any range of public seating (plane, subway, restaurant, you name it) the person near me being so overweight ? And if the proportion of obese people is the biggest in the States among developed countries, the reason is in the food : if I were an American parent, I would be more concerned with what my kids eat on a daily basis than with the occasional smoker who hasn't been yet chased away by the brigades of political correctness. Not to speak about "public health" : every disease, be it caused by tobaccco, alcohol, obesity, bears its cost on the amount of the health insurance you have to pay for. And to go back to the initial question : if there is currently a strong increase of tobacco consumption in Estern and Central Europe, it's because the major American tobacco companies, facing a shrinking domestic markets, are focusing on "opening" markets... Finally, one anecdote : I travel a lot, but the only place where I had to put up with a smoking, and really stinking, room, was in San Diego, in the heart of smoke-free California. Fanatism never works.

On our recent TGV ride from Paris to Nice, we got late reservations and ended up in the first class smoking car. Our littlest boy got nauseous, and we all trooped off to second class where we spread out in a compartment by ourselves with no smoke. I explained to my kids that we had to play by the rules in a foreign country, and they had every right to smoke. They actually thought the second class compartment was far superior to the first class car. <BR> <BR>A nice thing happened in a Roman restaurant. Two gentleman say down at a table near ours, then asked the waiter for a different table. One of the men, whom I took to be American, leaned over to me upon passing and said, "we're just going to move to the other side of the room so our smoke doesn't bother your children." <BR> <BR>All in all, it was tolerable to encounter more smokers than we were accustomed to. <BR> <BR>(For those of you who missed my post of several months ago, I carry a small portable smoke detector with me to put in the kids' hotel room. It was inside a carry-on bag, and we were walking through the Zurich airport which was very smokey, and the darn things actually went off!)

I don't like having smoke blown over me or, for that matter, beer breath belched into my face. If smokers were more considerate of others when smoking it would make non smokers more tolerant of their habit.

We just got back from Paris, and yes, there are some non-smoking sections. The problem is, they put you in the most unfestive/unattractive part of the restaurant. We can't stand smoke and are very used to not having it around because we live in a very smoke-free state. However, when we travel (Europe and Asia are both big on smoke) we just deal with it. <BR> <BR>Case in point, in Paris we went to a restaurant a friend suggested who used to live there. It was wonderful. We didn't realize they had a non-smoking section until the last night we ate there when the hostess asked us smoking or non. I said non right away happy to get away from the smoke. Mistake, they put us upstairs away from all the fun atmosphere, decor, fresh flower bouquets, etc. We went back downstairs and my husband said we misunderstood, we actually wanted smoking. I was amazed at the difference in "feel" you got from downstairs as compared to upstairs. <BR> <BR>So, yes, you can possible get a non-smoking section, but chances are, you won't have the same experience. <BR> <BR>Have a great day! <BR> <BR>

To Mark way back there, and any smokers, consider this: <BR> <BR>There are people who smoke that make the argument that they should be able to smoke whenever and wherever they so choose, and that it should simply be tolerated as their freedom. My response is that the residue of their pleasure inhibits my freedom of enjoyment of dinner, etc., and enclosed spaces. I, on the other hand, prefer beer. So how would you like the uncontained residue of my pleasure sprayed on your dinner table and down your leg? What's the difference to you, will you be so understanding of MY addiction and freedoms? <BR>

First - I am a smoker (I hear your gasps of horror). Second I am a considerate smoker. <BR>1. I never smoke around children. <BR>2. In a restaurant, I always ask if the people around me mind - living in Europe, usually they do not. If they did, I would go up to the bar area (or similar smoking section) to smoke. <BR>3. I never smoke in a non smoking area. <BR>4. I never smoke on public transport - it is illegal and subject to fine in my country anyway. <BR>I try to take others needs into consideration. I do know that my habit is detrimental to others health, and therefore try to avoid disturbing others. What is the point of being a considerate smoker, when people such as many of the people writing above are just downright inconsiderate. On a train last week, on my way to work in the morning peak time, several American woman got onto the train, complete with about 6 children (wearing the compulsory fluorescent tracksuits). The children were actually screaming (loudly and at a pitch which was hurting my ears). They were swining from the poles, and hitting one another (the train was also rather full, so every movement was pain). The woman (their mothers?) were laughing at them (very very loudly) and talking in loud obnoxious voices. This was on my way to work. <BR>What about my health? What about what these Americans did to my stress levels. I try to be considerate - but why bother, when Americans are generally so rude. <BR>If you don't like it - don't come. And that is all I can say. And please, if you must come - try to be a little more considerate of the people that live and work in those countries.

I'd like to contribute a FYI post that is NOT an attack on smokers and NOT an attack on anti-smokers: <BR>While it Parma, Italy I encountered a bar which was non-smoking and had a lamintated "non fumare" sign on every table!!! <BR>So, if you prefer non smoking locations, look for them, you'll find some.

!

As for some parts of eastern europe, there are many no smoking notices in cities of the Ukraine, and right next <BR>to them, or under, are people smoking. <BR>I had to ask, when will they put up the no pissing signs? <BR>

I would like to add a few comments to this forum. I have asthma, and cigarette smoke is about the worst thing for it. Before anyone start in on me...I have NEVER smoked. Usually it is pretty easy to avoid smoke filled places..because we have choices. However, after a week in Amsterdam, in March..so we were unable to eat or drink outside, I could hardly breathe. There were NO non-smoking areas in any restaurants. We tried to go early before the locals got there, and could usually get out before the smoke filled every square inch. People smoked on the train...even though it said non-smoking, and I must say, if it is the way the culture is, then they are way behind the times. Smoking just isn't cool anymore....It is unhealthy, and comes into the air that I must breathe. Later in the spring we were in Barcelona, and I found the people to be much more accommodating. They would always try and seat up in an area that there were no smokers, and we appreciate it. Just returned from Playa del Carmen, The Royal Hideaway, and had no problem at all...each restaurant had a major designated NON-smoking area. I think it is great that California has come down so hard on smoking.....no one needs to ruin their lungs because others have such bad habits.