Smoking policy in Europe
 

We are considering a tour of central & Eastern Europe. Are there no smoking areas in resturants, hotels, public transportaion?

Sad to be the party to bring you the bad news, but Europe in general is a generation behind America in restricting the use of smoking materials in public places. You likely will find that smoking is banned on domestic airline flights. Overseas flights restrict smoking to certain seats. On railways, we found that some designated cars permit smoking. To tell which is which, look at the car's ceiling. If it is a tannish hue, you are in the smoker. They don't pay much attention to signs unless the conductor enforces the "nicht raucher" ban. Hotels? Forget it. Some deluxe hotels, yes. Otherwise, no. When statistics catch up with the population death rates and certain nations give up their monopolies on the production of tobacco products, we will see movement to restrict this smelly, rotten, puking habit.

I have to agree with Arizona. In Europe everyone smokes anywhere, anytime, anyplace. There is a topic in this forum about the sloppy way americans dress. I agree with that, if you see an american lady walking down the street with a cigarette in her hand she is really looked down on but, in Europe no one thinks twice about a sharp looking European women dressed to the nines with a cigarette dangling out her mouth. Yuck? You can smoke where ever you want in Europe and say your sorry if you don't smoke.

I have to agree with Arizona. In Europe everyone smokes anywhere, anytime, anyplace. There is a topic in this forum about the sloppy way americans dress. I agree with that, if you see an american lady walking down the street with a cigarette in her hand she is really looked down on but, in Europe no one thinks twice about a sharp looking European women dressed to the nines with a cigarette dangling out her mouth. Yuck? You can smoke where ever you want in Europe and say your sorry if you don't smoke.

I have to agree with Arizona. In Europe everyone smokes anywhere, anytime, anyplace. There is a topic in this forum about the sloppy way americans dress. I agree with that, if you see an american lady walking down the street with a cigarette in her hand she is really looked down on but, in Europe no one thinks twice about a sharp looking European women dressed to the nines with a cigarette dangling out her mouth. Yuck? You can smoke where ever you want in Europe and say your sorry if you don't smoke.

I don't want to start a flame-war here, but merely want to clear up some misinformation! Although the original question was about C & E Europe, the replies seemed to take Europe as whole. I'd just like to point out that here in the UK at least there are many no-smoking zones. All buses I travel on, for example, are non-smoking; there are non-smoking bars and there are always non-smoking sections in restaurants etc.

Also in Belgium we have restrictions regarding smoking: no smoking in public places (train stations, post office, bank, ...), every restaurant must have a non-smoking area, etc. South European countries like Italy, Greece, Spain don't seem to have these restrictions.

Oooh, I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. Having just returned from Turkey, perhaps I was still gagging from the cigarette fumes. Recent trips to Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Austria -- much the same experience. Especially Poland. It seems I do recall seeing some progress in this area in England. Restaurants and tea rooms were fine. Most pubs we visited were blue with smoke in the evening. Possibly ventilation problems? However, our trip last year to Scandinavia was almost smoke-free -- congratulations!

Dear CJ. Europe is a CONTINENT with more than 50 countries. Of course smokinghabits is different between Macedonia, scandinavia, lithuania, germany, cyprus, Finland, malta, russia, monaco, france, bosnia-hercegovinia, Italy, belarus etc. etc. for example 60 % of the men smoke in Greece, while in sweden 19 % of the men and 23% of the women smokes <BR> <BR>WASA

A thousand pardons begged, You are right about Europe. My experiences were in Italy, Spain, Malta and troughout the Med. I am sorry if I offended anyone but there ARE place in Europe that have no smoking polices. Have a great trip anyway and let's hope it doesn't go up in smoke.

Hi everyone! I am not writing to join the debate, just to share my experience! I just got back from France,Italy, Monaco, & Switzerland where all the trains I rode had smoking and non-smoking sections. Furthermore, the smoking sections were the smaller sections...I always sat in non-smoking and nobody ever smoked that I could see. However, my Europass was first class and I suppose it could be more lax in second class. I was also fortunate enough to find several hotels (budget 1 star hotels, no less) that had non-smoking rooms available...you just have to call around and ask! And, if its any help to you, I am one of those people who is extremely, extremely sensitive to smoke (I nearly gag when a smoker is near me, even if I can only smell it on their clothes) and I didn't believe hotel owners who told me that, while they don't have non-smoking rooms, their rooms don't smell. Guess what? They didn't smell. I don't know if European hotels are better at airing out rooms than US hotels, but I never once had a hotel room that smelled anything like smoke, as long as I was sure to emphasize when I made my reservation that I am very sensitive and would appreciate having them air out/clean the room carefully. Finally, as far as restaurants go...that's the bad part. The upshot: many European restaurants have outdoor tables where you might not be as suffocated! Have fun! Kimberley

I heartily agree with Kimberley and the others. Living in one of the most progressive pro-health/anti-tobacco states in the nation (Massachusetts), and as manager of a tobacco control program for 6 Boards of Health, I knew my family and I would be subjected to tobacco smoke ad nauseum in our recent trip to Switzerland and Italy. So I planned accordingly by purchasing train tickets in advance here in the US with reserved seats in the non-smoking cars (2nd class in Switzerland, 1st class in Italy). I also knew *not* to fly Alitalia which seems to be the only airline left in Europe that allows smoking. Lastly, we made sure to eat outside wherever possible and since it was so hot and we love to 'people-watch', it worked out perfectly. I must admit that it was heartwrenching to see so much smoking, especially in my line of work! If you have money to spare, there is a resort outside of Geneva that is 100% smoke-free called "Le Mirador" and they have a website too. THE best gelato (ice-cream) in Florence-if not in Italy forbids smoking inside and it is called Gelateria Carabe on Via Ricasoli.

I don't want to start a flame war, but what is all the fuss about smoking? I live in the Czech Republic -- where admittedly many people smoke -- but guess what? It's great to live in a place where people are free to make their own decisions about how to live their lives. Is it inconvenient sometimes? Yes. It gets smokey in bars and clubs, and sometimes I don't stay long in a pub because it's too smokey. But mostly, it's not that bad. In fact, it feels free. It's much better than sitting in some sterile no-smoking environment, where people are smug and haughty in their own tightly regulated, mostly stiflingly boring health sanctuary. It's not all about longevity -- sometimes it's about freedom. Europe is freer than the States in this regard.

Arizona, if you stayed smoke-free in Scandinavia, you obviously missed the arrivals area at Kastrup airport in Copenhagen (*cough,cough*). Mark, some of us prefer the freedom to breathe clean air, and not die before our time. I don't particularly care when smokers die, but I resent having to help pay their medical bills while they're in the process of doing it.

Anna, <BR> <BR>I appreciate that, it just seems as if people focus on longevity, health and control (ie. security concerns) over simply relaxing and letting the cards fall where they may -- to the detriment of their enjoyment of life. Everyone dies ... even non-smokers. Mark

Obviously Mark, you have not suffered the agony of watching someone die from a disease that is *only* caused by tobacco (smoked, chewed, or snuffed)!!! Or for instance *why* the incidence of asthma in children is sky-rocketing thanks to selfish parents who have the 'right' to smoke near the developing lungs of their children. Until that happens (and I hope for you that it never does-it's a horrific way to end your life) you will never understand the rationale behind *why* tobacco must be addressed as the lethal addictive drug that it is. Economic factors from non-smokers paying for the medical bills of smokers, to CEOs of companies paying so much more for employees insurance, increased sick time and long term disability, cleaning their worksite more often, etc...There is more...I could go on! It is obvious that the deceitful manipulation of the public by the tobacco industry is alive and well in your country! You have my sympathy :-(

Michele - ********DITTO****** my hat goes off to you girlfiend. <BR>

<BR>We just came home from two separate trips, one to Switzerland, second one Norway and Denmark. With a few exceptions I noticed more "no smoking" policies than on previous trips. I am an asthmatic, and the slightest irritant can send me into an attack, so of course we look for non smoking sections etc. Our hotel rooms never smelled of smoke, usually always got non smoking section in restaurant, and any trains taken. <BR>However, in Lausanne, even in the outdoor cafes, it was awful and we just couldn't get away from it. Connecting in Amsterdam airport was bad as usual (they even smoke in the posted no smoking area). But on the whole, I do believe there has been an improvement over the years.

All of our flights, the long one from the U.S. to Amsterdam, the shorter one from Amsterdam to Warsaw, and the bunny hop from London to Amsterdam, ALL were no smoking flights. We flew Northwest & KLM, so don't know if other airlines are the same, but I was happily surprised that all these flights were now smoke-free. <BR>In Europe, many people freely smoked in the restaurants, and would light up before their meal and immediately after eating their meal some would sit there smoking 2 more cigarettes without regard to anyone else in the place, who would like to eat their meal without ingesting lots of smoke. My kids starting calling me the "magnet", we would sit down and the smoke would come right our way. <BR>Maybe that's one reason for so many outdoor cafes, which we eventually chose over eating inside, smokers still surrounded us, but at least we weren't confined in a close space with it. <BR>Also, the trains had no-smoking cars available, which I would definitely request, we walked through the other cars just to see what they looked like, and came upon a smoking compartment and it literally choked us up. <BR>Many hotels we stayed at had no-smoking rooms and even no-smoking floors. We did, however, stay mostly at the "chain-hotels" i.e. Holiday Inn, Marriott, etc. <BR>In general, Europe is coming along and accomodating those who need or want non-smoking areas.

So Europe's coming on is it? Give us more Marshall aid or Development aid and we might even do better. Smoking kills, sure, but so does eating hamburgers and drinking cola. And before the tolerance question comes in, have you ever had to face hordes of US tourists munching into hamburgers and complaning, in the middle of France, that the village has no MacDonalds? <BR>Thanks to the USA for being so generous in saying Europe is coming on. Can we say the US is coming on when the death penalty is abolished there?

Awww...did I hit a raw nerve? <BR>You aren't, perhaps, a SMOKER??? <BR>Actually, to abolish the death penalty would be regressive, maybe when the USA allows euthanasia, as in The Netherlands, will we be "coming on"!

The original question was a very good question and on my trips abroad I have found that people smoke more than in the States, but I have found that there are no smoking areas and could request no smoking rooms. <BR>I understand both sides of the issue, but I will have to say that I certainly did feel a live and let live attitude abroad and less judgemental. Because of the fanatical anti-smokers in the States you find alot more people that say they are non smokers, but in reality they are closet smokers, smoke cigars (so they are smokers) or smoke OPC (other people cigarettes.) I have found this is a debate that is usually not worth argueing. I find some people who are so against smoking don't worry about the pollution. By the way, have you ever wondered why statistically it rains more on Sat. than any other day of the week, b/c of pollution and factories and businesses poor it out all week and the consequence more chance of rain on a Sat. than on a Mon. <BR>

Just want to say... <BR>Sweden is the first country in the world <BR>taht has reached the WHO target for the year of 2000, that the % of smokers should be less than 20%. This target was reached last year... <BR> WASA

As an ex cigarette smoker, who's habit is now restricted to an occasional over priced cigar(smoked outside on my deck), I would like to make a point. When cigarette smoking I could hardly wait to land, enter the Frankfurt or Munich airport and light up. I was pleased with the way that the Europeans diidn't infringe upon my freedom. However, since quitting I have changed my opinion as to my desire, but not that of others. I recognize that Europe, is not America, and therefore things are just different. If the Poles want to smoke like chimneys, I'll either have to get used to it or go somewhere else. If they don't have separate sections in restaurants to accommodate my needs, then guess what I'll either get over it or go somewhere else. I don't like smokey rooms either, but I don't have the right to change the way of life of others, I just must adapt or go somewhere else. I fly Delta and I'm pleased that they are smoke free, but other airlines are not, it's obviously about choice. I do not understand, however why the smoking "police" want to concentrate only on smoking. Why not boycott French food due to fat and cholesterol leading to heart disease which my tax dollars must treat, why not boycott German beer and French or Italian wines which may cause alcoholism, liver disease and associated treatment with my tax dollars, why not boycott....(fill in the blank)...? Why just pick on tobacco makers, how about taking away all of my choices and soon I won't even be able to enjoy an Egg McMuffin and a cup of coffee! <BR>

At first I thought I would keep out of this potential war zone, but no such luck. Eating fatty foods has an impact only on the eater. Smoking pollutes the air we all breathe. If the person next to me is eating 100% cholesterol, I do not suffer directly, but if the person next to me is smoking, I get his or her cancer-causing second hand smoke. And don't try to tell me otherwise. Too many scientific studies prove it. <BR> <BR>And people who smoke around babies are guilty of something if not child abuse. <BR>(That should serve to touch off a good one. But smokers are in as much denial as alcoholics. "It ain't my %^$ problem; it is yours!") <BR>

Thank you Bob. You are 100% right. I am pregnant, and could care less if the person next to me wants to kill himself eating fatty, cholesterol laden junk. However, it is a completely different issue when that person lights up a cigarette and exposes both me and my unborn child to the secondhand smoke. And no, I do not want to hear anyone say to me that I should then just move away. Should I be the one to restrict my activities so some smoker can selfishly continue to poison the air? I think not. You are right, Bob, smokers are in denial.

Bob and Ilsa, <BR>I think that you may have missed the message of my post. Perhaps I didn't communicate effectively. I too do not like smoky rooms, etc particularly since I am allergic to cigarette smoke. However, unless you can change the habits of millions of Europeans, then you'll either have to accept it or not go as they will not be as accommodating as in the US. . As far as the fat and cholesterol, I recognize that you can't spread that to others. My comment was intended to reply to an other post that stated that tax dollars were going to be used to pay for medical costs of smokers. Guess what those tax dollars will also be paid to cover the medical costs of drnikers and other folks with heart disease as well. <BR>

The bottom line is, non-smokers have two options; either ask the offender to put out the cigarette or move. If you ask, most people will accommodate. In a crowded Covent Garden restaurant, the people sitting next to us were smoking. My mother turned to them and said "do you mind not smoking while we eat our meal." They had no problem with that, and once we finished eating they started smoking again. By that time, we were ready for the check. <BR> <BR>But it doesn't always work. At JFK airport as we were departing for Rome, an older man starting smoking in the waiting area right underneath the No Smoking sign. When my sister approached him and asked him to put out the cigarette, he pretended to not understand English. We laughed about it afterwards because at least we had the guts to approach the person instead of suffering in silence. In Rome, I was eating with friends in a nice restaurant. Just as our main course arrived, a couple sat next to us and began lighting up. One of my friends has very sensitive eyes that the tiniest bit of dust or smoke makes them red and itchy. I leaned over and asked the couple to put out the cigarettes. They were very offended and indignantly asked the waiter for another table. But you know what, WE were able to enjoy our meal in peace. <BR>

<BR>As a U K resident, I have to say that in this country at least, the no-smoking message is at least getting through somewhat. Most people respect no-smoking signs in bars, buses and trains. If they don't, then we complain! {There is an apocryphal tale about a carriage full of passengers on a train who, in true Brit style, suffered in silence whilst a couple got very frisky in the corridor, but who staged a revolt when the two lit a post-coital cigarette beneath a no-smoking sign.} <BR>Nearly all flights in the U K and to/from the country are no-smoking, and the price of cigarettes is extremely high, at over $5 a packet. Still, some people like to pay that. Our government has pledged to increase taxes on tobacco above inflation every year, so watch that price rise. The only good thing is that the money goes to fund our health service, education system etc. <BR>You can nearly always request no-smoking rooms in hotels and no-smoking tables at restaurants too. <BR>So that's smoking. But have you ever considered just how damaging pollution from cars and, yes, planes can be? Jets EAT kerosene and as passenger miles continue to increase, then so will pollution. Likewise with cars, buses, coaches and {diesel} trains. We all love to travel and we all hate pollution and the ill-effects it causes, but let's look at the whole picture. Smoking stinks, full stop. But unless we travel wisely, and encourage our tour operators etc. to help us do just that, then all of us are implicated in some form of possible environmental and health damage. <BR>So...write to your local politician. Contact the airport/airline/tour operator and ask what they're doing to stop pollution figures rising, or ask them how YOU can help do that. <BR>Happy, healthy travelling!

Just returned from Holland. It was impossible to find anywhere that was smokeless. After two days, sick as a dog with bronchitis, they have no respect for others, and even smoke on public transportation. Be careful. It is worse than South America, anyday.

<BR>1) I am a non-smoker <BR>2) Smokey atmospheres do disturb me <BR> <BR>OK, but what I dislike above everything (even tobacco smoke) is fanatism and the use of scapegoats, not the best friends of democracy. For some strange reason, tobacco has become the scapegoat for all health problems in the US. It used to be alcohol in the 20s. Now, in California, somebody can leave a bar totally drunk and take his car, nobody will object ; but if you drink an orange juice and light up a cigarette : sin ! Even though my life is more at risk with the first customer than with the second one. Some respondents contend that eating fat only harms the person eating : how mnay times in the States did I have to change seats, in any range of public seating (plane, subway, restaurant, you name it) the person near me being so overweight ? And if the proportion of obese people is the biggest in the States among developed countries, the reason is in the food : if I were an American parent, I would be more concerned with what my kids eat on a daily basis than with the occasional smoker who hasn't been yet chased away by the brigades of political correctness. Not to speak about "public health" : every disease, be it caused by tobaccco, alcohol, obesity, bears its cost on the amount of the health insurance you have to pay for. And to go back to the initial question : if there is currently a strong increase of tobacco consumption in Estern and Central Europe, it's because the major American tobacco companies, facing a shrinking domestic markets, are focusing on "opening" markets... Finally, one anecdote : I travel a lot, but the only place where I had to put up with a smoking, and really stinking, room, was in San Diego, in the heart of smoke-free California. Fanatism never works.

On our recent TGV ride from Paris to Nice, we got late reservations and ended up in the first class smoking car. Our littlest boy got nauseous, and we all trooped off to second class where we spread out in a compartment by ourselves with no smoke. I explained to my kids that we had to play by the rules in a foreign country, and they had every right to smoke. They actually thought the second class compartment was far superior to the first class car. <BR> <BR>A nice thing happened in a Roman restaurant. Two gentleman say down at a table near ours, then asked the waiter for a different table. One of the men, whom I took to be American, leaned over to me upon passing and said, "we're just going to move to the other side of the room so our smoke doesn't bother your children." <BR> <BR>All in all, it was tolerable to encounter more smokers than we were accustomed to. <BR> <BR>(For those of you who missed my post of several months ago, I carry a small portable smoke detector with me to put in the kids' hotel room. It was inside a carry-on bag, and we were walking through the Zurich airport which was very smokey, and the darn things actually went off!)

I don't like having smoke blown over me or, for that matter, beer breath belched into my face. If smokers were more considerate of others when smoking it would make non smokers more tolerant of their habit.

We just got back from Paris, and yes, there are some non-smoking sections. The problem is, they put you in the most unfestive/unattractive part of the restaurant. We can't stand smoke and are very used to not having it around because we live in a very smoke-free state. However, when we travel (Europe and Asia are both big on smoke) we just deal with it. <BR> <BR>Case in point, in Paris we went to a restaurant a friend suggested who used to live there. It was wonderful. We didn't realize they had a non-smoking section until the last night we ate there when the hostess asked us smoking or non. I said non right away happy to get away from the smoke. Mistake, they put us upstairs away from all the fun atmosphere, decor, fresh flower bouquets, etc. We went back downstairs and my husband said we misunderstood, we actually wanted smoking. I was amazed at the difference in "feel" you got from downstairs as compared to upstairs. <BR> <BR>So, yes, you can possible get a non-smoking section, but chances are, you won't have the same experience. <BR> <BR>Have a great day! <BR> <BR>

To Mark way back there, and any smokers, consider this: <BR> <BR>There are people who smoke that make the argument that they should be able to smoke whenever and wherever they so choose, and that it should simply be tolerated as their freedom. My response is that the residue of their pleasure inhibits my freedom of enjoyment of dinner, etc., and enclosed spaces. I, on the other hand, prefer beer. So how would you like the uncontained residue of my pleasure sprayed on your dinner table and down your leg? What's the difference to you, will you be so understanding of MY addiction and freedoms? <BR>

First - I am a smoker (I hear your gasps of horror). Second I am a considerate smoker. <BR>1. I never smoke around children. <BR>2. In a restaurant, I always ask if the people around me mind - living in Europe, usually they do not. If they did, I would go up to the bar area (or similar smoking section) to smoke. <BR>3. I never smoke in a non smoking area. <BR>4. I never smoke on public transport - it is illegal and subject to fine in my country anyway. <BR>I try to take others needs into consideration. I do know that my habit is detrimental to others health, and therefore try to avoid disturbing others. What is the point of being a considerate smoker, when people such as many of the people writing above are just downright inconsiderate. On a train last week, on my way to work in the morning peak time, several American woman got onto the train, complete with about 6 children (wearing the compulsory fluorescent tracksuits). The children were actually screaming (loudly and at a pitch which was hurting my ears). They were swining from the poles, and hitting one another (the train was also rather full, so every movement was pain). The woman (their mothers?) were laughing at them (very very loudly) and talking in loud obnoxious voices. This was on my way to work. <BR>What about my health? What about what these Americans did to my stress levels. I try to be considerate - but why bother, when Americans are generally so rude. <BR>If you don't like it - don't come. And that is all I can say. And please, if you must come - try to be a little more considerate of the people that live and work in those countries.

I'd like to contribute a FYI post that is NOT an attack on smokers and NOT an attack on anti-smokers: <BR>While it Parma, Italy I encountered a bar which was non-smoking and had a lamintated "non fumare" sign on every table!!! <BR>So, if you prefer non smoking locations, look for them, you'll find some.

!

As for some parts of eastern europe, there are many no smoking notices in cities of the Ukraine, and right next <BR>to them, or under, are people smoking. <BR>I had to ask, when will they put up the no pissing signs? <BR>

I would like to add a few comments to this forum. I have asthma, and cigarette smoke is about the worst thing for it. Before anyone start in on me...I have NEVER smoked. Usually it is pretty easy to avoid smoke filled places..because we have choices. However, after a week in Amsterdam, in March..so we were unable to eat or drink outside, I could hardly breathe. There were NO non-smoking areas in any restaurants. We tried to go early before the locals got there, and could usually get out before the smoke filled every square inch. People smoked on the train...even though it said non-smoking, and I must say, if it is the way the culture is, then they are way behind the times. Smoking just isn't cool anymore....It is unhealthy, and comes into the air that I must breathe. Later in the spring we were in Barcelona, and I found the people to be much more accommodating. They would always try and seat up in an area that there were no smokers, and we appreciate it. Just returned from Playa del Carmen, The Royal Hideaway, and had no problem at all...each restaurant had a major designated NON-smoking area. I think it is great that California has come down so hard on smoking.....no one needs to ruin their lungs because others have such bad habits.