Si not oui in France?
 

Yesterday I watched the rather fun French film "Moliere" about the playwright. It is of course in French with English subtitles. There was one thing that struck me as odd. There were a couple of sequences of short dialogue where one character was responding yes several times. But the actors were clearly saying "si" and not "oui". No, they weren't supposed to be Italian or Spanish characters. Is there a reason for this? At other times the word "oui" was clearly used for yes. Just curious.

The play does take place in the late 17th Century if that makes a difference.

'Si' is what the grammar books say you ought to say - and should still say today - for 'oui' if the context would expect the answer "non".

As in "PalQ's not posted many sensible questions lately, has he?" "Mais si: there was one in July"

Can't tell you much other than that "si" is still used at times in place of "oui." I noticed my friends who live near Lyon using it on my last visit. Their only explanation is that they mean the same thing, and they are both used. Perhaps it's regional?

Ah, or maybe if the questions asked are all in that "negative" context. Now that I think about it, they might have been -- like "He isn't going to marry her is he?"
Si.

The positive response to a negative question or declaration is 'si' rather than 'oui'.

Vous ne parlez pas francais? Si, un peu'

I must admit I don't remember ever learning this, and still have difficulty remembering. But that's what you are meant to say.

In keeping with flanner's post, I was going to add that there seems to be something more emphatic about the use of "si."

I'm pondering this...I have heard it in recent movies and conversation.

I'd say that it may mirror the english equivalent of "of course versus yes"...e.g. is your foie gras the best in Paris? "Mais si,monsieur!"

It is indeed a positive response to a negative question.

Vous ne parlez pas anglais?
Si.

I was mistaken for a Belgian this morning, not sure if I should be insulted.

"I'd say that it may mirror the english equivalent of "of course versus yes"...e.g. is your foie gras the best in Paris? "Mais si,monsieur!""

According to the French grammar that was beaten into me at school, this is simply incorrect.

Wikipedia may or may not get it right - but it coresponds precisely to what I was taught:

"[Si] is used to contradict negative statements or respond to negative questions"

Si = mais oui
Nez pas?

My Parisian friend, many years ago, told me that Si was used when you were contradicting what someone just said. For her, and the way she was taught, it was not interchangeable.

hmm...

I go to a restaurant...I ask "Je peut m'assoir ici?" The waiter answers "Mais si monsieur" or "Mais oui, monsieur"?

I feel a learning experience coming on...

"je peux m'assoir ic?" mais oui monsieur (it is a positive question) bien sûr monsieur.
"Je ne peux pas m'assoir ici, n'est-ce pas?" mais si monsieur. :-)

ah, I think I'm an iota smarter today.
Merci coco et flanneruk!

I don't feel smart because it is "asseoir" with a "e" !!! :-]

HI NP,

MFK Fisher wrote about learning when to use "si" instead of "oui" some years ago.

AFAIK, it is the positive response to a negative question.

>I ask "Je peut m'assoir ici?" The waiter answers .. "Mais oui, monsieur".

OTOH, I think that if you ask, "Je ne peut pas m'assoir ici?, the answer would be "Si".

"Peux-je fumer?" Oui or non
"Fumer est défendu?" Si or non

(I hope I have it right.)

((I))

Sorry Ira "Fumer est défendu?" is not negative like "puis-je fumer" then it is oui or non.

arriving in France from Spain , I was still in the Spanish language mind set and
used 'si" when I meant 'oui" for several days.
No one seemed confused.

For those wondering if their French is really fluent, spontaneously saying 'si' to a negative question is an excellent test of whether or not the language has really been absorbed.

"Vous parlez très bien le français. Ne me dites pas que vous êtes américain."

"Mais si!"

Or in "If flanner has not nearly always answered PalQs' nonsensible posts"

Oui

not Si

Nonsensible?

I'm with you danon... I speak much better Spanish than French, so it's nice to think that I didn't look like a total idiot the two or three times I said "si" instead of "oui."

Going from a few weeks or a month in Italy to the same time in France, si and oui start becoming automatic -- like pardon and scusi. Is there anyone who doesn't go from country to country without screwing up once in a while?

Anyway the question has certainly been answered for this non French speaking inquisitor. Now I'm anxious to see the film again and see if those quick interchanges were in fact all asked in the "negative" -- I suspect they were.

I too remember it taught (drummed, really) to me in school in the way Carlux and Flanner's first post suggests. You use 'Si' when responding affirmatively to a negatively phrased question.

E.g. "You haven't been carrying on with my wife now, have you ?" or " You don't want this last bit of chocolate cake, do you ?" or "That wasn't you drunk and passed out by the pool, was it?" Get it ?

But the answer to two of those questions is "non"!

Si not Quais?

kerouac, how do you know???? LOL

Exactly, Kerouac ! It depends how honest you want to be !! :)

Kerouac, I meant to add : What, you don't like chocolate cake ? :)

For those of you who speak German, "Si!" = "Doch!"

In some cases it can be quite important to get the si-oui distinction right. If you reply "oui" to a negative question or statement it will usually be assumed that you are agreeing. Which can make for a misunderstanding, if you should have said "si".

If I reply "Oui" to the question "Tu n'aimes pas les tomates, n'est-ce pas?", the person asking the question will assume I don't like tomatoes.

I believe I learned that in Canadian French, si is not used. Is that true?

>Sorry Ira "Fumer est défendu?" is not negative like "puis-je fumer" then it is oui or non.

Thank you, coco.

I haven't heard that si is not used in Canada - in fact my example earlier comes from 'Grammaire Francaise' by Jacqueline Ollivier, published in Canada, and described as a grammar book for 'le milieu canadien.' Actually an excellent book, as it's in French, but designed for English speakers, so that some points, like the use of 'en' are explained to English speakers.

So - in French, if you ask someone how many apples they have, the answer would be 'j'en ai deux. Literally, 'I have two of them', unlike English, where we would just say 'I have two.'

Definitely, absoultely, no doubt about it, "si" is a positive answer to a negative question, that is, a question posited in the negative. Si and oui are not interchangeable in any way.

Vous ne parlez pas anglais??

Mais si, monsieur, je parle anglais!

Kerouac, As someone whose goal it is to "penser en francais" and speak fluently, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment:

"For those wondering if their French is really fluent, spontaneously saying 'si' to a negative question is an excellent test of whether or not the language has really been absorbed."

"Vous parlez très bien le français. Ne me dites pas que vous êtes américain."

"Mais si!"
Thanks for your insight. E.J. ((#))

Elsiejune, I share your goal and I'd like to think that is true, but I do say si and I don't consider myself fluent. For me, the obstacle is insufficient vocabulary. I feel like I'm speaking like a four year old child.

Kerouac, that's why your comment on my trip report about babes lost in the woods makes me smile.

Nikki: I didn't mean to imply that "si/oui" is the ultimate test, just that it's one indication of someone's ease in speaking French. As Kerouac mentions, it's the ability to react/speak/think spontaneously that indicates progress. I couldn't agree with you more about vocabulary. It really is the number one area where I fall down in my French, too. I don't think one can really become fluent without spending significant time living in country, which is something I wasn't able to do in my student days. Alors, maybe in my next life. EJ ((#))

Go sit in a nontouristy French (or French/Belgian) cafe for a while on a Saturday afternoon after shopping and listen to two good (female) French friends catching each other up on their lives and those of their friends/family/lovers/coworkers. Sooner or later, you are bound to come across this exchange:

...Non, c'est pas vrai!
Mais si!!!

Mais non, c'est pas possible!
Mais si!!!

Mais c'est incroyable!
Oui, bien sur...

Interesting that nearly all the posts explaining this use of si, most often use "mais si". In the film it was never that -- but just a simple "si". Thought I'd point that out.