Seeking Diverse Experiences in Western France – Please Critique Itinerary!
 

Hi, all!

I’ve developed a tentative plan for a 24-day trip to various parts of western France and would greatly appreciate your comments. My goal is to have a diverse range of experiences with cities and towns, different styles of art and architecture, varied natural scenery, etc. The trip is to occur this coming May, and I think I’m going to love it!

A bit about me: I enjoy art, architecture, museums, castles, churches, picturesque villages, relics/ruins, parks and gardens, natural scenery, brief stops in markets (mostly to take a few pictures), food and wine, and the chance to see and experience other parts of the world. I don't particularly like shopping, although I buy gifts for family and friends when I travel. I visited Paris once, many years ago, but have not been anywhere else in France. I’m a woman and will be traveling solo. I don’t speak French, but will do my best to learn at least a few basics before I go.

I think of an itinerary as a guideline, not a checklist or set of rules. I plan to reserve accommodations in advance, but am otherwise happy to change my plans in the face of whim or circumstance. Nonetheless, I don’t want to start with unrealistic plans. I think – hope! – this is an feasible, if ambitious, itinerary. I want to take full advantage of the time I have to see and experience things (except that I don’t like getting up at the crack of dawn). I don’t mind changing hotels every night or so. I’m not specifically seeking relaxation – I’m sure I’ll find relaxing over dinners sufficient for my needs.

I welcome any thoughts you have about this itinerary and ways to improve it.

Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)

Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day

Days 3 – 7 – visit Paris, with a day trip to Chartres

Day 8 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny, the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys, and possibly the Abbeye de Jumieges; overnight in Rouen

Day 9 – Visit Rouen and then move on to Honfleur

Day 10 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux; reach Mont St. Michel in the early evening

Day 11 – Visit Mont St. Michel and (if time permits) Fougeres, reach Dinan in the early evening

Day 12 – Visit Dinan, St Malo (just to walk the ramparts), perhaps Dinard (for the view of St. Malo), Cap Frehel and Ploumanach (both brief stops to appreciate the views); reach Morlaix by early evening

Day 13 – Visit St. Thegonnec and Guimiliau, then Carnac; reach Vannes by early evening

Day 14 – Visit Vannes and (if time permits) Josselin, visit the tapestries in Angers; reach Fontevraud by early evening

Day 15 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau; reach Bourges by early evening

Day 16 – Visit Bourges, move on to Poitiers by early evening

Day 17 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Domme (or another town in the Dordogne near there) by early evening (staying in Domme or nearby for 3 nights)

Day 18 (a Sunday) – Market in St. Cyprien, gabarre ride along the Dordogne, Beynac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, and La Roque Gageac

Day 19 – the Vezere Valley — Les Eyziers de Tayac, Font de Baume, Village Troglodytique de la Madeline, La Roque St. Christophe, St. Leon sur Vezere, Lescaux II

Day 20 – Martel, Carennac, and Gouffre de Padirac; stay in Rocamadour

Day 21 – Figeac, drive along Cele River, and Pech Merle caves; overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie

Day 22 – St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening

Day 23 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse mid-day (and spend the night there)

Day 24 – Flight from Toulouse to the U.S.

Thanks to all of you who have already shared information so generously on this forum and thanks in advance for any insights you can offer as I develop my plans.

Day 19 is probably overcrowded. The only reason to see Les Eyzies is to visit the Museum of pre-History. It's worth a visit, but then a couple of hours are spent there. Font de Gaume will also take a couple of hours waiting for the tour, the tour itself, getting to the car. The same goes for La Roque St. Chirstophe, St. Leon sur Vezere will be another couple hours (lunch stop?), and the same goes with Lascaux II. I have not even counted on the travel time between your starting point and all the various locations. I may be stretching the time spent somewhat at each location, but I don't think so.

Day 18 is similarly overcrowded. For example, Milandes has a half hour raptor show that you will want to see, unless you are visiting exclusively because of its Josephine Baker connection. Unless you arrive at exactly the right time, you will have to wait for the show to start, or maybe rush through the chateau to make sure you see the next show. Count on 20 minutes to walk from the parking lot to Castelnaud, which also takes a couple of hours to visit. Beynac is by guided tour only, which means some lost time waiting for the scheduled hour. And while the area between locations is quite compact, the roads between each location are not always the most obvious, nor very fast.

I would go farther and say Days 18 and 19 are just impossible, especially since you say you don't like to get up early. Even though it won't be high season, there will be plenty of tourists on the roads and at the sights. Plus, there will be at least a 2-hour "siesta" during the middle of each day that could foil your plans. And it's not clear whether you have checked on what days things are open and closed. As Michael points out, too, you cannot expect to just arrive somewhere and get on a tour. You'll need to do some very exacting research about times and openings.

I think you have other impossible days in there, too. All in all, I'd guess that by Day 12 you'll already be a day behind.

>>Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)

Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day

Days 3 – 7 – visit Paris, with a day trip to Chartres

Day 8 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny, the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys, and possibly the Abbeye de Jumieges; overnight in Rouen

Day 9 – Visit Rouen and then move on to Honfleur

Day 10 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux; reach Mont St. Michel in the early evening

Day 11 – Visit Mont St. Michel and (if time permits) Fougeres, reach Dinan in the early evening<<

OK up to here !!!

>>Day 12 – Visit Dinan, St Malo (just to walk the ramparts), perhaps Dinard (for the view of St. Malo), Cap Frehel and Ploumanach (both brief stops to appreciate the views); reach Morlaix by early evening<<

I think this day will be hard to accomplish. There is a bit of a drive between Dinan and Ploumanach, and walking the trails in the "pink rock" section will take a couple of hours. There is really no benefit of a "brief stop" in the "pink rocks" - you'll have to get out of the car and take the trails out & back to really enjou them. Perhaps stay the night in Ploumanach so you can either visit the pink rocks in the PM or AM - they are quite impressive.


>>Day 13 – Visit St. Thegonnec and Guimiliau, then Carnac; reach Vannes by early evening

Day 14 – Visit Vannes and (if time permits) Josselin, visit the tapestries in Angers; reach Fontevraud by early evening

Day 15 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau; reach Bourges by early evening<<

I think I would stay in the Loire an extra day or two & visit a few more Chateaux. We were a little "underwhelmed" with Bourges. It was OK, but we've visited many other Michelin 3 star cities that we enjoyed a lot more (like Rennes, which you will drive close to, and Toulouse - your last destination)

>>Day 16 – Visit Bourges, move on to Poitiers by early evening

Day 17 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Domme (or another town in the Dordogne near there) by early evening (staying in Domme or nearby for 3 nights)<<

I would pick up the extra day for visiting the Loire by skipping Bourges & Poitiers and head straight to the Dordogne from the Loire. Bourges/Poitiers/Dordogne would involve lots of time on the road - and IMO the "rewards" would not be worth all that driving &n "lost" time.

>>Day 18 (a Sunday) – Market in St. Cyprien, gabarre ride along the Dordogne, Beynac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, and La Roque Gageac

Day 19 – the Vezere Valley — Les Eyziers de Tayac, Font de Baume, Village Troglodytique de la Madeline, La Roque St. Christophe, St. Leon sur Vezere, Lescaux II

Day 20 – Martel, Carennac, and Gouffre de Padirac; stay in Rocamadour

Day 21 – Figeac, drive along Cele River, and Pech Merle caves; overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie

Day 22 – St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening

Day 23 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse mid-day (and spend the night there)

Day 24 – Flight from Toulouse to the U.S.<<

This is a busy & active schedule, but as long as you're willing to do one-nighters, I think it can be accomplished & give you a "first time" taste of western France.

Stu Dudley

While in Brittany I'd be sure to visit Quimper and Concarneau

I would not skip Poitiers or St. Savin because they contain highlights of Romanesque architecture. Bourges is a little out of the way and could easily be skipped. Its cathedral does not compare to Chartres' and the itinerary is very crowded as is.

Instead of reaching Bourges by evening, visit Langeais, or Azay-le-Rideau, or Villandry. The route from that area to Poitiers is more direct than from Bourges.

Please don't leave out the WW2 area of Normandy near Bayeux.

Thanks, all – great information!

I admit that I find it very difficult to estimate how long things will take. I’ve been trying to get a sense by checking opening hours (including siesta breaks) and recommended amounts of time for visits (when noted), reading trip reports and the wonderful advice offered on this board, using mappy and viamichelin (throwing in some extra time for getting lost), etc. - doesn't always work. Your expertise is invaluable!

Sounds like I need to make at least a few changes to my plan:

Given Stu’s comments, I’ll plan on staying overnight in Ploumanach (day 12) so I'll have time to walk the Pink Granite Coast a bit. That probably means that I’ll have to skip one of the two parish closes (day 13). I would love to hear from anyone who can compare Guimiliau and St. Thegonnec.

(StCirq – when you guessed that I’ll be a day behind by day 12, were there other specific days you thought were too full?)

Also, I appreciate the input from Stu and Michael that I should skip Bourges. That could mean adding a day to:
- Normandy (which I would use to visit some of the WWII sites, as Images2 suggested), or
- Brittany (which I would probably use to see Quimper and/or Concarneau, as Avalon suggested, and/or Rennes, as Stu hinted), or
- the Loire (which, at least initially, appeals to me least – no offense, Stu and Michael!), or
- the Dordogne (which I would use to shift some things from days 18 and 19 and maybe add Eyrignac).

I’ll give thought to these options and re-check hours before coming up with a revised plan.

If I don’t add a day to the Dordogne (and maybe even if I do!), I’m considering skipping the Village Troglodytique de la Madeline (instead of trying to visit both it and La Roque St. Christophe). Also, maybe I should skip Beynac (instead of trying to see both it and Castelnaud). Comments?

BTW, I am willing to get up early for the occasional special purpose (e.g., to visit a market in the Dordogne) and I don’t normally eat lunch (but that doesn’t always make a major difference because of lunch-hour closings).

Again, thanks so much - and do keep the good advice coming!

Think you definitely need more time for Bayeaux (if you want to see tapestry and anything of the invarions beaches, monuments and cemeteries) - spend a tleast onen ight - 2 is better. Also you need a full day to get to and see Mt St Michel - unless you're a mountain goat.

>>Also, I appreciate the input from Stu and Michael that I should skip Bourges. That could mean adding a day to:
- Normandy (which I would use to visit some of the WWII sites, as Images2 suggested), or<<<

Make sure that the WWII sites really interest you. That area of Normandy is not a paticularily "scenic" section of France. All the villages were leveled in WWII - except Bayeux, and even Bayeux is way down on my list of interesting villages of that size (Vannes is near the top of my list - so is Sarlat). The Tapestry in Bayeux is quite remarkable, however.


>>- Brittany (which I would probably use to see Quimper and/or Concarneau, as Avalon suggested, and/or Rennes, as Stu hinted), or<<<

IMO, Concarneau is quite touristy & only mildly interesting. Same with Quimper (compared to other cities in France). Visiting both would add a lot of mileage to your already "too many miles" driving trip. We much prefer the northern Brittany coast over the southern coast.

>>- the Loire (which, at least initially, appeals to me least – no offense, Stu and Michael!), or<<

I've stated many times on Fodors that the Loire is the least scenic region that we have visited in France - except for the Chateaux. The Chateau in Angers is a ruin, and not nearly as interesting as the other 3 star Chateaux in the Loire (we've seen them all)


>>- the Dordogne (which I would use to shift some things from days 18 and 19 and maybe add Eyrignac).<<

You can never spend too much time in the Dordogne.

>>If I don’t add a day to the Dordogne (and maybe even if I do!), I’m considering skipping the Village Troglodytique de la Madeline (instead of trying to visit both it and La Roque St. Christophe). Also, maybe I should skip Beynac (instead of trying to see both it and Castelnaud). Comments?<<

Don't skip Beynac or Roque Gageac. You could forgo the chateau in Beynac - but not the village - which is quite small & won't take much time to explore.

When you start each day, see the "least interesting" site last in the day - so if you run out of time then you won't feel bad about missing it. Domme/Roque Gageac/Beynac/St Cyprien/Castelnaud/Milandes are close together so you won't be doing a lot of needless driving if you try to visit them on the same day. Same with the sites in the Vezere Valley.

>>I would love to hear from anyone who can compare Guimiliau and St. Thegonnec.<<

We visited them both - and Thegonnec was the only one that "made it" into our Shutterfly album.

Stu Dudley

Guimiliau is said to be the largest of these sites. We did not see the Calvary itself, as it was being repaired when we passed by. What we did see looked so new that it had lost the charm of age. By now it may have aged somewhat and might not be as strikingly new.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624616164661/

Within this set are pictures of St. Thégonnec and Guimiliau, plus others. The inside of a church may be as interesting as the Calvary itself. Look at the carvings of the Loc Envel church.

As for the Loire valley, it is pleasant but not particularly striking. But the chateaux are all different, and while Angers is essentially a ruin, the tapestries of the Apocalypse rival the unicorn tapestries in the musée Cluny.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624575935008/

Thanks, nywoman!
My plan was to stop in Bayeux for the tapestry only. Mont St. Michel is a high priority for me, and I don't expect to leave it until I'm ready to do so. My schedule should permit a full day if that's what it takes me to see it. And based on what I've read about day-trippers, it is one place I hope to get a fairly early start. I will only go to Fougeres if I finish with Mont St. Michel no later than 2 or 3 p.m.; it sounds like that won't be likely.

Stu - once again, my thanks!
> Make sure that the WWII sites really interest you.

I'm decidedly torn. I'm sure I would find them very moving. I'm not sure I'm willing to give anything up to make time for them.

> Chateau in Angers is a ruin, and not nearly as interesting as the other 3 star Chateaux in the Loire (we've seen them all)

My goal in Angers would be to see the Tapestry of the Apocalypse. What were your reactions to it?

> You can never spend too much time in the Dordogne.

I'm getting that sense! And if I add a day there, I might be able to find a bit of time for Sarlat....

> Don't skip Beynac or Roque Gageac. You could forgo the chateau in Beynac - but not the village

OK! I will NOT skip these villages!

> When you start each day, see the "least interesting" site last in the day - so if you run out of time then you won't feel bad about missing it.

That's a lessen I learned the hard way on my 1st trip abroad! I try to balance my interests with what I can tell about the most reasonable route and opening hours, and I try to keep my priorities in mind so I can skip a site if necessary to ensure enough time at higher priority destinations. Doesn't always work, but I've managed fairly well in the past.

> We visited them both - and Thegonnec was the only one that "made it" into our Shutterfly album.

Glad to hear that - I was leaning to St. Thegonnec.


I'm so lucky to have the benefits of all your comments and advice!

Michael - messages crossing in hyperspace! Thank you SO MUCH for the links to your photos - they are absolutely wonderful and very inspiring! Loc Enval is tempting. I'm very excited about all the things I will see and experience on this trip, but I hate deciding what to skip when I plan a trip! And thanks for confirming that the Tapestries of the Apocalypse are worth seeing.

I'll agree with others that there are parts of the Dordogne and Lot where some days are crowded and also to skip Bourges to save time and add things elsewhere. But you've done a great job researching and picking a really interesting and varied itinerary.

It's always a risk but if you're willing to take the chance on a few of your crowded days maybe you could hold off on booking a room to allow yourself the flexibility of seeing what you want to see and not feeling rushed to reach a destination. You'll of course need to have a good guidebook for accommodation but you can also check with tourist offices (free of charge to assist with accommodation) and perhaps you'll also have internet access. You don't necessarily have to book last minute/same day but as you move along maybe you might have an idea of where you will be or what you will be doing 1-4 days in advance, at which point you could book. This means you can't always be picky about where you stay but I'm pretty sure that nowhere you stay would be horrendous.

Another thing you might consider is that perhaps in your Dordogne and Lot visit you pick a place to stay as a base for a few days and use it to make day trips. That way you've got secure accommodation and you can see as much or as little as time and your mood dictate.

In regards to seeing WWII sites and/or Quimper and Concarneau obviously that would require some itinerary revision. I'm a firm believer in seeing what most interests you so if you prefer to see those places in exchange for some things on your current itinerary then that's fine. But if you are happy with what you've planned then stick with it. You can't see everything that is worth seeing in these regions in 24 days so don't try.

On your days 11 and 12 I've got a few ideas. I like Fougères but maybe you could drop it. On Day 11 see the Mont in the morning and then go to Saint-Malo for your walk on the wall, visit Dinard for the view and end up at Cap Frehel and do the scenic drive along the coast before heading to Dinan for the evening. On Day 12 start with your visit of Dinan and then make your way to Ploumanach (and stay there instead of Morlaix as Stu has suggested). On your way you could drive the coastal road along the Côte du Goëlo and on the way drive down some of the small roads to the ocean where the map shows designated scenic roads and viewpoints and tiny villages and hamlets. Visit Paimpol on the way and also Tréguier on your way to Ploumanach.

Or, from Dinan drive along the coast past Paimpol and spend time meandering the small white roads on the northern part of this peninsula driving through small anonymous villages to scenic viewpoints along the cliffs. There are walking trails along much of the coast in this area. While here perhaps pass through the towns of Lézardrieux, Pleubian, Saint-Gonéry, Port-Blanc and Tréguier. Perros-Guirec is next to Ploumanach and worth a stop as well, as is walking along the coast in Ploumanach. If you have a Michelin map then near Ploumanach notice all the icons for megaliths and perhaps visit a few.

So on your day 12 drive from Dinan to Ploumanach there are lots of options and you can do whatever combo of these things is of most interest to you. You don't have to do them as I've laid out. Pick and choose what you have time for.

Lastly, I assume you have good maps of the scale of 1:200,000 for each region. If you ever want to get yourself lost driving then the Michelin maps have icons for all kinds of touristic and historic attractions that may not necessarily be in a guidebook. Things such as châteaux, abbeys, ruins, caves, churches, megaliths (especially in Brittany)designated scenic roads, scenic viewpoints and many others. And since you're traveling in May the days will be getting longer. You could have light until after 9:00 or 10:00 depending on what time in May you'll be here.

I don't think you need a full day for Mt St-Michel; half a day is adequate, as long as you get there early.

Do put the megaliths in and near and should definitely stay in your itinerary. As for the castle, the best thing about it is the formal gardens in the moat.

Be sure to look at the Michelin green guides for driving itineraries, as they're very good for estimating time required.

>>My goal in Angers would be to see the Tapestry of the Apocalypse. What were your reactions to it?<<

Very impressive - we saw it last year.

Stu Dudley

I would agree about not needing a whole day at The Mont but if it is a very important visit for you then take all the time you need. I'm assuming your plan is to spend the night there on day 10. The best time to see the Mont is at night when the tourists have gone and it is all lit up and magical. Also the best time to walk the narrow crooked paths to various terraces and to walk along the ramparts. You can see everything there is to see on the Mont in the evening and in the morning all that is left to see is the abbey. This could take as little as an hour or as much as 3+ hours depending on your interest and/or if you are doing a tour (audio or guided).

I love staying on the Mont overnight (despite it being overpriced) and I'm sure you will too. If you are spending the night there that is certainly one place you want to try to book as far in advance as possible.

I wouldn't miss the tapestries in Angers. But I'd also make time to go see the Musée Jean Lurçat there to see HIS take on the tapestries. Both very impressive. His other museum is outside St-Céré in the Lot.

I would definitely not skip Beynac or La Roque-Gageac. And keep in mind the Hundred Years War history, and what was happening on the north and south sides of the river - that's why you want to visit both Beynac and Castelnaud châteaux, assuming you're interested in the history.

Le Village Troglodytique de la Madeleine is an easy skip. You just walk down a path to the river and see the same types of abris you see pretty much everywhere else. Far more interesting, if you have the time for it (unlikely) is the walk up into the hills over St. Léon-sur-Vézere to the "hidden" door where you can enter and walk into an abri much like the one at La Roque-St-Christophe, but smaller - and usually have the place all to yourself.

I sincerely doubt you'll need a full day for Le MSM - it's just not that big. A half-day would probably be more than adequate. And I'd recommend that half-day be at the end of the day because it really is so much more appealing when the crowds have left. I also agree you could skip Fougères, though I do like that town (as well as Vitré). Also agree about Quimper - not a must-see IMO.

>>I sincerely doubt you'll need a full day for Le MSM <,

I agree.

We got to MSM around 8:00 am & visited the sections below the Abbey - before the crowds arrived. We got in line for the Abbey around 8:45 - 15 mins before it opened. We toured the Abbey with head-sets for around 1+ hrs, then returned to the section below the Abbey - it was a mob scene. We checked out a few other sites (perhaps Archeoscope), but decided to "pass" on them. By 11:00 we were ready to flee the mobs - shuffling down the streets shoulder-to-shoulder instead of a normal walk was very frustrating. By that time, the merchants had loaded the streets with trinket displays - toothbrushes with every child's name on them, soup bowls with names, barrets, postcard stands, etc. My FIL was with us and had just seen a Rick Steves show about MSM, so he wanted to have an Omelette at Mere Poulard (very bland). While we were sitting at Mere Poulard, about 20 other patrons (many groups - not just 1 group of 20) came into the restaurant, were seated by the hostess, read the menu, and about 15 of them got up & departed the restaurant without ordering anything.

This was in June '01 & was our 2nd visit to MSM. Mt wife was also there when she was a student in Brittany in '66 - on the 1,000th year anniversary of MSM. She purchased a poster commemorating the event, which we have displayed in our living room)

Stu Dudley

Again, thank you all for this incredible feedback!

Re: maps -
I’m currently planning to get the Michelin spiral-bound atlas. I also hope to rent a car with a decent GPS system, because I admit finding it difficult to drive and navigate at the same time. I’ve read some of the posts about bizarre GPS instructions for the areas I plan to visit, but am hoping that I can use the combination of the Michelin atlas and GPS to good effect. Does that make sense?

Re: megaliths -
I definitely hope to visit some, and not just in Carnac! The chance to see some around Ploumanach is another very good reason to spend the night there, rather than trying to move on to Morlaix.

Re: Mont St. Michel -
I’m so glad that most of you believe that a half-day will be enough! I am planning to spend the night there and am confident that I will love every overpriced minute. If I’m ready to move on after a half day, great — and I will continue to make plans assuming that I will be ready. But if I’m not ready, that’ll be fine, too.


FrenchMystiqueTours –
> you've done a great job researching and picking a really interesting and varied itinerary

Thanks so much! I love to research my journeys and I like to plan trips with a lot of variety. I realize that I still have a great deal to learn about the places I hope to visit on this trip, but I think I'm slowing getting there. And if the plan turns out well, it will be in large part because of all the information that you and others have provided on this board.

> maybe you could hold off on booking a room to allow yourself the flexibility of seeing what you want to see and not feeling rushed to reach a destination

I did that for my first two trips abroad, as well as for my last one, and I find it much more stressful to go without reservations! But having a reservation doesn’t mean that I need to rush to get there: Although I wouldn’t like to pay twice for a single night’s lodging, I realize that it is sometimes an option worth considering.

> you might consider is that perhaps in your Dordogne and Lot visit you pick a place to stay as a base for a few days and use it to make day trips

I do plan to spend at least a few nights in one location, most likely Domme or thereabouts. But I don’t plan to spend all my time in that area at one hotel – I’ve been persuaded by Stu’s arguments to stay in a few different locations if one is willing, as I am.

> On your days 11 and 12 I've got a few ideas.

Intriguing! I will definitely give your suggestions some thought. Thanks so much!

> You could have light until after 9:00 or 10:00 depending on what time in May you'll be here

Isn’t that wonderful? Sunsets should be between 9 and 9:30 almost everywhere I plan to visit, so if anyone wants to recommend particular places to catch them, feel free!


Underhill –
> As for the castle, the best thing about it is the formal gardens in the moat.

Are you referring to Angers?


StCirq –
> I wouldn't miss the tapestries in Angers. But I'd also make time to go see the Musée Jean Lurçat there to see HIS take on the tapestries. Both very impressive. His other museum is outside St-Céré in the Lot

Thanks for encouraging me to visit this museum – I admit that I had been debating whether to skip it.

> I would definitely not skip Beynac or La Roque-Gageac . . . you want to visit both Beynac and Castelnaud châteaux

If I add a day to this part of the country, which I’m currently inclined to do, then I could visit the Saturday market in Sarlat instead of the Sunday market in St. Cyprien. Would that free up enough time on Day 18 (Sunday) to see my whole wish list for the day, namely, to take a gabarre ride along the Dordogne, visit the villages and chateau of Beynac and Castelnaud, visit Les Milandes including its falconry show (there should be shows at 3:00 and 4:30 while I’m there, and the castle is open afterwards), and La Roque Gageac?

> Le Village Troglodytique de la Madeleine is an easy skip.

Good to know!

> Far more interesting, if you have the time for it (unlikely) is the walk up into the hills over St. Léon-sur-Vézere to the "hidden" door where you can enter and walk into an abri much like the one at La Roque-St-Christophe, but smaller - and usually have the place all to yourself.

You’ve made tantalizing references to this secret door in so many posts, StCirq! By adding a day, I might actually have time – but the how and where (specifically) remain obscure to me.

> I also agree you could skip Fougères, though I do like that town (as well as Vitré).

I had a difficult time choosing between Fougeres and Vitre, and finally chose Fougeres because it isn’t quite so far off my planned route. But I keep feeling drawn to Vitre, and it actually shouldn’t take me that much longer to reach. So if I do try to visit one of these places (and I’m still rethinking this part of my trip), does anyone want to recommend one over the other?


Stu –
> Mere Poulard is now firmly crossed off my list of dining options on Mont St. Michel!


Again, thank you all so much! You are helping me put together a really exciting itinerary!

<<But I don’t plan to spend all my time in that area at one hotel – I’ve been persuaded by Stu’s arguments to stay in a few different locations if one is willing, as I am.>>

I haven't gone back to re-read, but I really doubt Stu recommended you move around much in the Périgord. Everything's so close together there it would be monumentally wasteful to keep changing hotels. Just park yourself somewhere near Sarlat and plan your daily routes accordingly.

I don't think switching from the St-Cyprien to the Sarlat market makes that day any easier. Parking's harder in Sarlat, and they'll both be crowded.

I assume Underhill was talking about Fougères - it's a huge castle with a moat with gardens - Vitré is much more compact.

About the private door near St-Léon-sur-Vézère...just ask someone in town. From town, you'll need to cross the river on the little bridge, turn left, and hike along the river until you come to a path leading up into the hills. It's probably a half-hour walk. The door's on your right. Wear sturdy shoes. It might take too much time out of your already rather hectic schedule, though.

I've got just a few more ideas for you. On day 13 you are reaching Vannes in the evening. I love Vannes and I'm sure you will too. The interesting part that is worth exploring is the old downtown and along the harbor. These areas aren't that big and can be explored on foot quite easily. Unless there are museums or other sites you plan on visiting there you might be able to see everything you need to see that evening. That would leave you free in the morning to start your journey and give ample time to the things you want to see along the way before reaching Fontevraud (which is lovely as well as very interesting).

Unless you are super fixed on the idea of going there I would trade Josselin for a visit to Rochefort-en-Terre. It has the official designations of a "small city of character", "one of the most beautiful villages in France" as well as being a 4 star "flowered village". It certainly deserves all of these designations and is often referred to as the most charming village in Brittany. I've been to Josselin and it is a lovely, wonderful town but even though Rochefort en Terre is smaller it is higher on the charm scale. It also has the advantage of being more on your direct route from Vannes to Angers whereas Josselin will take you further out from that route.

If you've got the time and interest I wrote a trip report about my vacation in Brittany this summer and there are hundreds of photos in it, including Fougères, Carnac (and Gulf of Morbihan vicinity), Josselin and Rochefort-en-Terre. Here is the link:

http://anyportinastorm.proboards.com...ad=4366&page=1

I haven't been to Vitré so I can't compare to Fougères but I would make the drive from Dinan to Ploumanach a higher priority than I would a visit to Fougères/Vitré or a visit to Saint-Malo/Dinard/Cap Frehel. That northern part of Brittany is especially gorgeous and certainly the coastline there will rival or beat Cap Frehel in terms of beauty (well at least for me, maybe not for others).

Oh, great idea on just buying the whole Michelin Atlas of France. It may be a bit big and bulky to travel with but once you are here you'll be glad you have it.

Rochefort en Terre is an outstanding little town on a hill. It was FrenchMystiqueTours' recommendation that sent us there. Wow! It's geared to tourism, and they load on the charm--flowers, shops, a chateau, restaurants and bakeries, old stone buildings, an ancient church, a little park.... There are a lot of visitors at any given time but it's worth braving the crowd.

If you're visiting Dinan, the nearby village of Lehon is another small charmer, old stone buildings, tons of flowers, but without the shops and restaurants of Rochefort en Terre.

If you have to choose between Fougeres and Vitre, I would drop Vitre. It's smaller than Fougeres, and while interesting, it doesn't take long to visit. You can spend a day or two in Fougeres but if you don't have that much time, it's easy to hit the high spots.

Bookmarking

StCirq -
> I really doubt Stu recommended...

Oh, dear! I fear I have misrepresented Stu’s recommendation! In his Dordogne itinerary (which he kindly shared with me) and in some replies he’s written in response to other posters, I’ve understood him to recommend staying in/around the Sarlat area (including Domme, Beynac, and Roque-Gageac) to see most of the Dordogne, but for those who don’t mind changing hotels and who wish to see some of the more distant sites, such as Gouffre de Padirac, Rocamadour, Castelnau, Martel, and Carennac, I understood him to note some advantages to relocating. My apologies to Stu, to you, and to anyone who reads this post if I have misrepresented his recommendation!

> About the private door near St-Léon-sur-Vézère...

Thanks so much for the additional information! If I do add a day to my time in the Dordogne, I will definitely consider trying to find time to visit this place - it sounds special.


FrenchMystiqueTours –

> I would trade Josselin for a visit to Rochefort-en-Terre...

Thanks so much for mentioning this village – it sounds and looks wonderful! And as you note, it actually suits my itinerary better than Josselin. I also appreciate your estimate of the time it will take me to visit Vannes – it gives me hope that I can see what I would most like to see between Vannes and Fontevraud.

> I wrote a trip report...
Loved it! Wonderful descriptions, amazing pictures – quite an inspiration! I loved learning about and seeing Gavrinis and the other megaliths you visited on that vacation. I am even more motivated than before to be sure to visit several along my journey through Brittany. Thanks for sharing!

Coquelicot –
> If you're visiting Dinan, the nearby village of Lehon...

That’s another great looking little village, and so close to Dinan! Thanks for mentioning it, as well as for seconding FrenchMystiqueTours’s recommendation to visit Rochefort-en-Terre.

> If you have to choose between Fougeres and Vitre, I would drop Vitre.

Thanks for the advice and your rationale – very helpful!


I'm having a great time looking up the places you are all mentioning and honing my plans. What a great place Fodor's Forum is!

I totally agree you'll want to move to visit the Rocamadour area and again the Castelnaud-de-Montmiral area. I thought you were saying you were going to move around the Perihgord Noir.My mistake.

Ack! - Perigord...

>>Oh, dear! I fear I have misrepresented Stu’s recommendation<,

Nope - that's what I've recommended if you want to visit some/several sites east of the A20 - Martel, Rocamadour, Padirac, Carennac, Castelnau/Brentoux, Collonges la Rouge, Turenne, St Cere, etc. That's too many places to try to visit on 1 trip, and 2 trips would eat up a lot of travel time. Also, as you get close to Souillac, it is not scenic at all. So I've recommended that visitors stay overnight in the St Cere/Rocamadour area - especially if you don't mind changing hotels, and certainly if your next destination is Figeac.

Josselin vs Rochefort-en-Terre. We've visited both places on seperate visits to Brittany. We enjoyed each, but comparing the two is like apples & oranges - one is a cute village decked out with lots of flowers, & the other's main draw is the castle. So if you want to visit a castle, then hit Josselin. If not, then see Rochefort. However, if you need to save some time, remember that the tour at Josselin is guided (and probably in French), and will most likely consume 1 1/4 hrs to 1 3/4 hrs (some "wait for the next tour to start" time). I think you can visit Rochefort in 1 hr.

Stu Dudley

PS

St Cyprien market vs Sarlat market.

IMO, markets in France often distract from your enjoyment of the town itself. Visitors have a tendency to keep their eyes on the vendors & their wares - and not on the architecture of the town. Sarlat is a beautiful town architecturally. We usually visit it in the very early morning, just before or after dinner, or on Sundays or Mondays, when there are fewer stores open so they don't have their umbrellas set up outside to hide all the architecture. St Cyprien does not have much to hide - it is not a particularly attractive village - especially compared to Sarlat (few villages in France are as attractive as Sarlat). Therefore, I would visit the market in St Cyprien (get there early - 8:30 June thru Sept) and visit Sarlat on Monday.

Wait!!!!! you didn't have Sarlat on your list of places you wanted to visit. I'll assume that's a careless mistake on your part.

Stu Dudley

My view of the Sarlat market is the opposite. It adds color to the main square, but most of the town is not affected by it anyway.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7623164797649/

Stu –
I’m so glad I didn’t misrepresent you! Thanks for assuring me I had understood your correctly.

And thanks for your helpful comments about the differences between Josselin and Rochefort-en-Terre.

> you didn't have Sarlat on your list of places you wanted to visit

Having been convinced to drop Bourges from my itinerary, I have an extra day to play with and am leaning toward adding it to my time in the Dordogne. That would mean that I arrive a day earlier (in the evening of day 16, a Friday). I’m thinking of spending that night in Sarlat so I can see the town in its evening splendor (you do paint a charming picture of it!) and visit its market the next morning. By adding a day to the Dordogne, I could also spread the things I hoped to see on days 18 and 19 over three days instead of two, and maybe add a stop at Eyrignac. I’m pretty sure that’s what I’m going to do, but am still weighing my options.


Michael –
Again, thanks for sharing your pictures! You have a wonderful eye.

Bookmarking for StCirq's tip re: St-Léon-sur-Vézère.

kja: This looks like a great trip you're developing. Please do a TR when you get back -- which will be just before I leave to see some of the same.

Mont St. Michel is amazing. It is a day trip from Rennes or Rouen (I can't remember), though. Why are you staying overnight there?

Go to the World War II Museum in Caen.

sap -
> This looks like a great trip you're developing

Thanks! I'm very excited about it. I learned a lot from the threads you started while planning your trip, which also sounds great.


hpluss1 -
> Mont St. Michel is amazing. It is a day trip from Rennes or Rouen (I can't remember), though. Why are you staying overnight there?

Because I hear that it is magical at night and because I'd prefer to keep the time that I share it with other tourists (it gets many day trippers) to a minimum.


BTW, I just realized that by adjusting my itinerary a bit, I can visit Mont St. Michel during a spring tide. How cool!

Hello again! I’ve taken your much appreciated advice into consideration and am back with a revised plan. I should note two quirks based on some timing issues that are out of my control: (a) although I prefer open-jaw flights, I’ll be starting and ending in Paris and (b) I’m planning on visiting Mont St. Michel and St. Malo in what seems like the wrong order to maximize my experience of the spring tide at each.

Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)

Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day

Days 3 – Paris

Day 4 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny and the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys; overnight in Rouen

Day 5 – Visit Rouen, then stop briefly at the Abbeye de Jumieges on my way to Honfleur

Day 6 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux (primarily for the tapestry); reach St. Malo in time to walk the wall during the evening high tide

Day 7 – If I’m ready to leave St. Malo early enough, visit Dinan; make sure that I reach Mont St. Michel in plenty of time to watch the tide come in

Day 8 – When I’m finished visiting Mont St. Michel, head to Rennes (stopping briefly in Vitre if time permits). Overnight in Rennes

Day 9 – Head west, with stops in Cap Frehel, Paimpol, and Treguier before reaching Ploumanach, making sure I get there in plenty of time for a long walk along the coast before sunset.

Day 10 – Get up early for a long day: Visit St. Thegonnec, then drive to the area around Carnac. Visit the museum and see the alignments there (if open) or in Kerzerho if not. (Can any of you confirm that the Kerzerho alignments are still fully accessible at all times?) Then visit Locmariaquer. Stop briefly at the Ponte Arradon before reaching Vannes in the early evening.

Day 11 – Visit Vannes, then head to Angers (stopping in Rochefort-en-Terre if time permits). In Angers, visit the Tapestry of the Apocalypse, Musee Jean Lovcat, and cathedral. Head to Fontevraud for the night.

Day 12 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau, Langeais (if time permits), and the gardens (only) at Villandry. Move on to Poitiers for the night.

Day 13 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Sarlat-en-Canada by early evening

Days 14-16 – Explore the prehistoric sites of the Vezere Valley, the towns and castels and gardens along the Dordogne, Sarlat’s market, take a gabarre ride along the Dordogne, etc., as time permits

Day 17 – Visit Martel and Carennac on my way to Rocamadour (where I will stay the night)

Day 18 – Gouffre de Padirac, Figeac, drive along Cele River, overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie

Day 19 – Pech Merle, St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening

Day 20 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse when ready and spend the night there

Day 21 – Spend the day in Toulouse; overnight train to Paris

Days 22 – 25 – Paris

Day 26 – afternoon flight home

I think it's an ambitious plan, but I hope it's doable! I welcome any and all thoughts and reactions. Thanks in advance!

Hello again! I’ve taken your much appreciated advice into consideration and am back with a revised plan. I should note two quirks based on some timing issues that are out of my control: (a) although I prefer open-jaw flights, I’ll be starting and ending in Paris and (b) I’m planning on visiting Mont St. Michel and St. Malo in what seems like the wrong order to maximize my experience of the spring tide at each.

Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)

Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day

Days 3 – Paris

Day 4 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny and the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys; overnight in Rouen

Day 5 – Visit Rouen, then stop briefly at the Abbeye de Jumieges on my way to Honfleur

Day 6 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux (primarily for the tapestry); reach St. Malo in time to walk the wall during the evening high tide

Day 7 – If I’m ready to leave St. Malo early enough, visit Dinan; make sure that I reach Mont St. Michel in plenty of time to watch the tide come in

Day 8 – When I’m finished visiting Mont St. Michel, head to Rennes (stopping briefly in Vitre if time permits). Overnight in Rennes

Day 9 – Head west, with stops in Cap Frehel, Paimpol, and Treguier before reaching Ploumanach, making sure I get there in plenty of time for a long walk along the coast before sunset.

Day 10 – Get up early for a long day: Visit St. Thegonnec, then drive to the area around Carnac. Visit the museum and see the alignments there (if open) or in Kerzerho if not. (Can any of you confirm that the Kerzerho alignments are still fully accessible at all times?) Then visit Locmariaquer. Stop briefly at the Ponte Arradon before reaching Vannes in the early evening.

Day 11 – Visit Vannes, then head to Angers (stopping in Rochefort-en-Terre if time permits). In Angers, visit the Tapestry of the Apocalypse, Musee Jean Lovcat, and cathedral. Head to Fontevraud for the night.

Day 12 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau, Langeais (if time permits), and the gardens (only) at Villandry. Move on to Poitiers for the night.

Day 13 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Sarlat-en-Canada by early evening

Days 14-16 – Explore the prehistoric sites of the Vezere Valley, the towns and castels and gardens along the Dordogne, Sarlat’s market, take a gabarre ride along the Dordogne, etc., as time permits

Day 17 – Visit Martel and Carennac on my way to Rocamadour (where I will stay the night)

Day 18 – Gouffre de Padirac, Figeac, drive along Cele River, overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie

Day 19 – Pech Merle, St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening

Day 20 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse when ready and spend the night there

Day 21 – Spend the day in Toulouse; overnight train to Paris

Days 22 – 25 – Paris

Day 26 – afternoon flight home

I think it's an ambitious plan, but I hope it's doable! I welcome any and all thoughts and reactions. Thanks in advance!

Hello again! I’ve taken your much appreciated advice into consideration and am back with a revised plan. I should note two quirks based on some timing issues that are out of my control: (a) although I prefer open-jaw flights, I’ll be starting and ending in Paris and (b) I’m planning on visiting Mont St. Michel and St. Malo in what seems like the wrong order to maximize my experience of the spring tide at each.

Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)

Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day

Days 3 – Paris

Day 4 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny and the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys; overnight in Rouen

Day 5 – Visit Rouen, then stop briefly at the Abbeye de Jumieges on my way to Honfleur

Day 6 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux (primarily for the tapestry); reach St. Malo in time to walk the wall during the evening high tide

Day 7 – If I’m ready to leave St. Malo early enough, visit Dinan; make sure that I reach Mont St. Michel in plenty of time to watch the tide come in

Day 8 – When I’m finished visiting Mont St. Michel, head to Rennes (stopping briefly in Vitre if time permits). Overnight in Rennes

Day 9 – Head west, with stops in Cap Frehel, Paimpol, and Treguier before reaching Ploumanach, making sure I get there in plenty of time for a long walk along the coast before sunset.

Day 10 – Get up early for a long day: Visit St. Thegonnec, then drive to the area around Carnac. Visit the museum and see the alignments there (if open) or in Kerzerho if not. (Can any of you confirm that the Kerzerho alignments are still fully accessible at all times?) Then visit Locmariaquer. Stop briefly at the Ponte Arradon before reaching Vannes in the early evening.

Day 11 – Visit Vannes, then head to Angers (stopping in Rochefort-en-Terre if time permits). In Angers, visit the Tapestry of the Apocalypse, Musee Jean Lovcat, and cathedral. Head to Fontevraud for the night.

Day 12 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau, Langeais (if time permits), and the gardens (only) at Villandry. Move on to Poitiers for the night.

Day 13 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Sarlat-en-Canada by early evening

Days 14-16 – Explore the prehistoric sites of the Vezere Valley, the towns and castels and gardens along the Dordogne, Sarlat’s market, take a gabarre ride along the Dordogne, etc., as time permits

Day 17 – Visit Martel and Carennac on my way to Rocamadour (where I will stay the night)

Day 18 – Gouffre de Padirac, Figeac, drive along Cele River, overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie

Day 19 – Pech Merle, St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening

Day 20 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse when ready and spend the night there

Day 21 – Spend the day in Toulouse; overnight train to Paris

Days 22 – 25 – Paris

Day 26 – afternoon flight home

I think it's an ambitious plan, but I hope it's doable! I welcome any and all thoughts and reactions. Thanks in advance!

Skip Rennes. It's a nice town, but not that important touristically. It makes more sense to head west from the Mont St. Michel than to go south toward Rennes.

Carnac has enough alignments to satisfy anyone. I must admit that Kerzerho does not ring a bell.

I doubt that you will be able to see Fontevraud, Langeais, Chenonceau and the garden of Villandry in one day. In your mind these represent quick connections, but with a lunch stop, looking for parking, getting stuck in traffic, or slowing down through villages, etc. 2 stops at a major sight, maybe 3 stops is the maximum that will be doable.

I just checked Google Map. If you insist on going to Rennes, Fougères is more interesting than Vitré and less of a detour.