di = did
Whil = While

Sorry dave - I missed the part where you said, "my "100" was not intended to be literal, but a figurative illustartion of the fact that the rates of immigration are very unequal."

I guess I must have misinterpreted,
"The numbers speak for themselves."

>You get something that only the upper crust gets in Europe.

All of our lab techicians - hardly "upper crust" - have an own house with a garden. But then, they have to commute 30-40 km one way.

As to "Herr Doktor" vs. MBA, so what? You can call yourself MBA and Herr Doktor can't. It's different degrees which need similar time to get.

@ bkluvsNola
We're not the upper crust, absolutely not. We live in a house of our own, we can sleep at night in quiet without street noise, we have a large enough garden and lawn (incl. gardener). Okay, we don't have a swimming pool but that's mainly due to our climate.
You're not suggesting that *everyone* in the US has a pool and a own house, do you?

This is only a generalization, not intended to be applied strictly, but Europeans tend to see our fate and place in life as the end result of processes and forces that are largely beyond our control. Americans tend to see success, or a lack thereof, as a consequences of the decisions that we make. Both are right, and both are wrong, because the truth is somewhere in the middle.

These differing views of life affect cultural attitudes. The United States is a highly competitive place to live. Those who are willing to make the sacrifices, whether as simple as arriving early or staying late, or as substantial as getting a graduate degree - those people will be rewarded by US society. Some (not all) Europeans seem to regard hard work and self improvement as nothing more than evidence of greed and materialism.

I concede that, if I were unmotivated, uneducated, and disinterested in self improvement, I would prefer to live in Europe. Most western European societies generously provide for those unwilling to provide for themselves.

Obviously, most western Europeans are not lazy and indifferent, but does anyone contest the assertion that their society enables individuals to make the wrong choices in life. In the US, if you drop out of school, have a drug problem, or simply refuse to work, a higher price is paid.

Re Robjame "I guess I must have misinterpreted,"

Don't apologize. Off the top of my head, and speaking loosely, I would guess I have been wrong, misinterpreted, or been inaccurate millions of times. But in reality, I have probably been wrong only in the low hundreds of thousands. (My wife may stick with the millions, but whose counting?)

(If I win the lottery, I would spend half my time in London. Ooops. Just saw the exchange rate. If I win the lottery twice...)

smueller, Except for your third para (we have plenty of unmotivated people too), right on the mark. Or so "I" think :)

Really... smueller..

"I concede that, if I were unmotivated, uneducated, and disinterested in self improvement, I would prefer to live in Europe. Most western European societies generously provide for those unwilling to provide for themselves."

No comments....

(just try to educate yourself a bit more and open your mind before making these absurd generalizations)!!

In France, anyone who passes the 'baccalaureat' exams at the end of high school has the right to go to university free of charge. This year, 85% of students in France received their baccalaureat at these exams and received the right to a free university education. So I am perplexed by the earlier statement about 'European' education eliminating students from going to college while the worst American students can go if they pay enough money. I can't see this as being a plus.

On a totally different subject, I think it is significant that nobody has mentioned the interesting application of the death penalty in the US. I'm sure that if all Europeans were polled, a majority would still be in favor of the death penalty for specific cases, but the fact is, the death penalty has been abolished in Europe, and nobody has to worry about the execution of someone who may be innocent.

Smueller - Strangely, within my own extended family, there are a number of Americans who have made bad choices and received a considerable amount in state benefits, while those who live in the U.K. have all had a good education and led successful lives without any help from the state. The U.S. does not seem to be such a "sink or swim" society as is sometimes made out.

Two other points. We are often told that the U.S. is more tolerant of failure, in that this is seen a providing a useful experience from which to recover. Europe is considered less forgiving, and there is certainly less opportunity to rebuild your life in a place where your past mistakes are not known. This could be seen as encouraging complacency.

The health and social systems in Europe are also less related to employment, so one can move jobs without risking losing one's healthcare. This should make for a more flexible workforce. Companies are also not financially burdened with having to provide healthcare for retired and redundant employees.

"Filing for personal bankruptcy." Now there's something that most people in Europe can't do. Europeans are responsible for their debts.

Cristine - A simple question. Would you rather be poor in France, Germany or the US?

I have a ton of British friends who live in the US and stay here for the film industry and the weather (I'm waiting for them to rename Santa Monica "Little Britain").

A friend of mine told me that some of her friends moved back to the UK after a few years citing homesickness and frustration with American superficiality & politics. But then after a year or so, they moved back to the states saying that home wasn't as rosy as they remembered it.

Personally I would love to live in Europe, but I'm sure I would miss elements of the US if I did. Both have wonderful aspects to them, and both have their flaws.

But for the record, none of my friends or family members own guns. Please stop watching reality TV programs about the US - most of us are not like that. And 71% of us also disapprove of our current government's policies. :-)

After 20 years in USA at 55 years of age, I took a chance and returned to UK, hetismij, you made the right choice in the Netherlands, I lived there 7 years and regret leaving.Anyway I managed to find a good job in London again and have been back 2 years and dont regret it.see other post why europe is better.

Did everybody on this post have a bad week, or what? Hey folks, it's Saturday...lighten up!

This IS light for us.

smueller interesting question but i can't answer it because a. i'm not poor (and i'll try my best not to be :-) and b. because i haven't lived in US and i really don't know your system.

But i honestly believe that you can't generalize things concerning the US or Europe. In Europe for example Northern countries have very different systems and mentality than southern countries.

Also i believe that each country has its pluses and minuses and it depends on each person to choose the best according to its lifestyle.
And surely i don't believe that 'hard work' means also 'self improvement'.

And last but not least the comment about 'more freedom in US' really made me laugh out loud!!!! (smueller of course that's not for you)

Cristine - some things are generalizable and some things are not. My (admittedly rather long) point was simple - Imagine a scrubby-looking person on a street corner begging with a will-work-for-whatever sign. I believe that a western European is more likely to regard that person as a victim of society, whereas an American is more likely to regard that person as a victim of his own vices or weaknesses. Of course, some Europeans will have the "American" view and some Americans will have the "European" view.

I have long believed that such perceptions play a significant role in shaping our societies. When it comes to social services, western Europeans tend to regard Americans as stingy, and Americans tend to regard Europeans as extravagant.

Just for information, here are the US immigration statistics that I found:

There were 1,266,264 immigrants who were granted legal residence in 2006, up from 601,516 in 1987, 849,807 in 2000, and 1,122,373 in 2005. The top twelve sending countries in 2006, by country of birth: Mexico - 173,753, China, People’s Republic - 87,345, Philippines - 74,607, India - 61,369, Cuba - 45,614, Colombia - 43,151, Dominican Republic - 38,069, El Salvador - 31,783, Vietnam - 30,695, Jamaica - 24,976, South Korea - 24,386, Guatemala - 24,146, Other countries - 606,370. In fiscal year 2006, just 202 refugees from Iraq were allowed to resettle in the United States.

Hello, I'm the original Poster.
I was looking for why a European would want to move to the US, NOT why they would NOT want to, which is mostly what I ended up with.