PLEASE HELP critique my itinerary!!!! First time to Europe aaahhh!!
 

Hello guys,

My gf and I are backpacking in Europe. This is my first Europe adventure and Im so excited! Anywho, we fly into Paris at 9:40am on June 8th and leave Paris for home on July 4th 11:10am. I have not booked any hostels/hotel or purchased a Eurail pass yet. The only thing I have done is booked my round-trip flight to Paris. I'm a student and would like to experience Europe but also on a budget. So here is my TENTATIVE plan of attack (and open for critique):
Paris (meeting some friends here for 2days) => Amsterdam (3days, fly to) => Dublin (4days, fly to) => Barcelona (3 days, fly to)=> Rome (4days)=> Florence (2days) => Venice (2days) => Paris (1 day, fly to) => Home

I've only budgeted 21 days in total to be in these places, but I will actually be in Europe for 26 days. So I've left out 5 days for transportation & rest in btw trips. Hopefully that's reasonable? Haven't really looked thoroughly into transportation intend on flying from amsterdam-dublin-barcelona-rome. If anyone has a more efficient way of doing this, please lemme know and any other information/advice would be greatly appreciated!! I'm sucha newbie at this and need all the help I can get! Thanks so much in advance!!

I'm not certain why you'd need a rail pass since half of your travel is flying. Point to point tickets would probably be cheaper.

You will likely be jetlagged on arrival. I would make Paris 4 days, taking one day from Dublin and one from your extra 5 days.

You may want to investigate flying home from Venice. The cost to change your ticket may equal the cost of flying back to Paris. If using a low cost airline, getting to and from inconvenient airports can be costly.

Have a great trip!

Yes, if you could fly out of Venice, it would give you another day there. Have a super trip!

hi cayla,

I agree with judy that with this sort of itinerary, a train pass would be a waste of time.

BUT [and it's a big but] a railpass enables you to be flexible, moving when a nd where you please, whereas a trip lately by plane, like the one you have planned, gets fixed by the flights you will have to pre-book.

personally, unless you have a really strong reason to visit Dublin, I would jettison it for this trip, and concentrate on train travel, using the freedom that a pass gives you.

you would then need to concentrate your research on hostels, cheap hotels, even couch surfing, waiting until you get to a place to find somewhere you can doss down. the only place I would not do this is Paris [and possibly Rome] where you will want to organise your accommodation before you arrive. otherwise, you're young, able-bodied and you will not be travelling at absolute peak season, so finding cheaper end places shouldn't be too difficult.

I also agree about spending longer than you have planned in Paris - 4 days would be an absolute minimum for me. and I would consider dropping Barcelona - it's way off your route, like Dublin.

here's my suggestion for you: [26 nights by my reckoning]

Paris (meeting some friends here for 2days) + 2 days, ie 3 nights, train to
Nice. Stay 4 nights. Get train to Italy say
Florence - 3 nights - train to Rome
Rome - stay 4 nights
Train to Venice - stay 3 nights
Train to Switzerland - 3 nights [europe isn't all cities - you should see some mountains]
Train to Amsterdam (3 nights, train to
Paris (3 nights), fly Home

that's just an idea - if you are using a railpass, you can suit yourself.

Aw thanks so much for the helpful responses!! AWESOME!!! The only issue about leaving from Venice is I have already booked my roundtrip already. I did this before planning this itinerary because it was cheap to fly in and out of Paris. How do I go about changing my fight and would it really be cheaper to change it so that I leave from Venice? I would love to leave from Venice, that would be perfect but not sure how I can do that now...thanks in advance guys!!

Hello Annhig,

I know that Dublin is a major detour from the rest of my trip. BUT my gf actually reeeeeeeaally wants to go Ireland, it's her only wish lol. I wanted to go to Barcelona because I hear that it's party-central haha. I was actually considering Switzerland too...hmm now u got me thinking about it again. I'm supposed to start booking hostels/flights tomorrow so that's why I wanna get a more definitive itinerary asap. We already dropped Greece because it was sucha detour from our trip. I don't think we can drop Ireland. I'm really open to other itinerary ideas!!! And I will discuss them all with my friend. Thanks so much everyone!!

right with all those flights forget the railpass - but like Paris to Amsterdam is now just about 4 hours or so by train - flying can take as long - I like annhig's suggested itinerary that has you going a lot by train - and for that the Eurail Youthpass of some kind would be a great deal - there are lots of folks your ages riding trains around Europe - you can also take overnight trains and save on a night's lodging.

Anyway for lots on great info on train check out these fantastic IMO sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com.

When I was your age I used a Eurail Youthpass and had the time of my life - you really are missing out on some great experiences IMO if not doing much of your trip by rail.

Call your airline and ask what the cost will be to change the ticket. It may be $200. Add the cost of the flight to Paris plus the transportation to and from the airports and see where you are and if the change is worth it to you.

Why does your girlfriend want to go to Ireland? If its to see the lush green landscape then Dublin is not hte place to go. I have spent a lot of time there and dont really like it compared to other European cities. I found it blah, expensive, very spread out and not very attractive.

I would either drop a day there, or perhaps go to London instead as it looks like you are skipping it which would be a shame. you can take the eurostar between London and Paris www.eurostar.com

Be sure you book your flights asap if using budget airlines like ryanair, easyjet etc. The sooner you book the cheaper they are generally. But be aware of extra charges and VERY strict weight restrictions on luggage and hand luggage.

If you are going to Dublin to see Ireland then you're going to be disappointed. You have to get over to the western part of the country to find what I think you're looking for.

My advice is to drop Dublin but keep Barcelona if you want to party. It's a fun city.

The problem with changing the airfare is that flights from Venice are likely going to be more expensive than from Paris, they usually are. So changing the ticket will cost you more than just the fee to make changes, the fare will go up. That's no doubt why you chose Paris to begin with. But you have to weigh the increase in fare and fees versus your time and the cost of getting back to Paris. It might be worth it, but not if you bought some nonchangeable fare from a discounter.

Easy Jet flies Venice (Marco Polo) to CDG for $84 dollars. Perhaps higher in summer, but check out whichbudget.com.

THanks so much everyone!! I think my friend really wants to go to Ireland tho. I have no desire but she's dead serious about it, I would not want to get in the way of that lol. I was just wondering: if I'm flying, I notice it's way cheaper to avoid having any checked luggage but is it possible to do this? I realize it would really limit what I can/cannot pack. Awww so much planning!! I don't think I will get the Eurail but I will need to train it from Paris to Amsterdam. And I can use the train system in Italy for geting around. I hear the Eurail pass is not as useful in Italy. And thanx Judy for the accommodations recommendation. I will make sure to pre-book hotel/hostels in Paris. And here I thought it was important to pre-book all my hostels/hotels in advance to ensure we gotta spot.

If you are flying all those legs a rail pass is a complete waste of time.

My only concern is - have you put a budget around this trip? All that moving from one city//country to another is going to get expensive - even on budget airlines. And often those tickets sell out far in advance - and flight don;t operate every day.

I think you need to do a lot of research on these flights.

And put together a realistic budget for a trip this extensive. Even staying in hostels, eating lots of picnics rather than cafes or restaurants and making one beer or glass of wine in a student hang out last all night - you still talking many thousands of $.

Yeah nytraveler you are right! THat is why Im spending all day today looking into cheap flights. My budget with accomodations and food (excluding spending money/shopping) is $2000. That;s purty reasonable, no? Anyway,what are everyone's thoughts on Ryanair and easyjet? I know Ryanair has extra charges and only allow max 15kgs for carry-on luggage with smaller dimensions than easyjet. But they offer such cheap flights!! Aaaaahhhh

So this $2,000 is supposed to pay for 26 days in Europe including accommodation, food and multi-country transportation? Are you familiar with Lonely Planet's travel forum, Thorn Tree? You may find more help on that forum as it is geared more toward the student and budget traveler. I don't have any idea on how to advise you with your budget. If you were limiting yourself to one or two cities then maybe. But you have an ambitious plan on a tiny budget.

I wish you good luck and I hope you're able to pull it off. Maybe someone here has some helpful suggestions for you.

I just kinda randomly threw out $2000 as a number. But after thinking more about it, I realize a budget of $2000 in my case is not possible. Sighhh. This is my first Europe trip and so clearly, I don't have as much experience with budgeting/transportation/planning. I don't mind spending a lil more than 2000 to ensure I enjoy my trip. Thanks Sharona, I will check those forums u recommended!!

For those low cost carriers you mentioned, there is a big difference between the price they dangle in front of you and the actual price you pay at the time your purchase your ticket and again on the day of travel. Of course, you can find these out and may be avoid them if you actually read their fare schemes.

You itinerary has at least three dead-end type of destinations: Ireland, Barcelona, and Venice. They are the end-of-the line type where the only way out is to back-track, which is working against your budget. You could have minimized these redundant cost by an open-jaw itinerary to enter through one of these dead-ends and come home from another dead-end. However, since you already bought the flights, this is no longer a strategy available to you to lower the overall cost. Ok, so let's move on.

There are several factors you can control each with its pros and cons. Scope control - reducing destinations, quality control - cheaper food, cheaper places to stay, time control - less total travel time=returning home earlier or less time in more expensive place. Each impact other factors.

It would spin your head if you try to do this all in your head. Actually write them down and price out several different scenarios and compare which ones are achievable within your constraints.

I hope a lesson you learned from this first attempt is that planning is like an inflated balloon; you pinch one place and something else bulges out. You need to look at the whole picture without being buried in details = focus on key goals and constraints. Acting on one area, a costly area like the flight, prematurely constrains what you can do later.

Experienced traveler can pounce on cheap flight deals. They probably have itineraries they can use with the destination and the time of travel combinations.

Do you go to Europe to see airports and only big cities they are in - taking the train at least you see the lay of the land - the often bucolic Europe in between the huge cities. Europe is more than airports and mega tourist cities IMO.

cayla - a few points for your planning:

easyjet - the price you see is the price you pay, taxes etc are all included. hold bags, insurance, etc etc. are extra however.

Ryanair - you must watch the headline rate very carefully - taxes are normally on top. AND 15kgs is the weight limit on hold bags - the weight limit for the cabin is 10kgs.

Pal - i couldn't have put it better myself.

If it were me I would leave out Spain this time and fly from Paris to Dublin then from Dublin to Rome. From there I would get a 5 days in two months Eurail pass ($325) and use the 5 days to go Rome to Florence, Florence to Venice, Venice to Zurich, Zurich to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Paris.

You can absolutely do carry on only if you use a backpack, pack very carefully, and if all else fails don't forget that they don't count what you're wearing in the baggage allotment. My niece and I did 3 weeks in the Czech Republic, Austria & Hungary last year and both carried less than 17lbs (10Kg is @ 22Lb). We did carry on for the international legs as well so when we arrived we didn't have to wait around for bags which was great. It makes getting around oh so much easier and if you can carry your stuff on your back then it makes it easy to say go from Venice to Milan on the train in the early morning (7:10am), get off (9:25am) and see the sites, buy a picnic dinner to eat on the train, get back on the train in late afternoon (5:10pm) and arrive in Zurich(8:51) before sunset. This would take you through the alps on the train in the evening which would be spectacular.

You could do a similar itinerary on the way from Zurich to Amsterdam stopping in Frankfurt and Amsterdam to Paris stopping in Brussels.

We found picnicking on trains to be a great way to save money and time, not to mention just really fun. We also found it great fun to go into different grocery stores, delis, bakeries etc. to scout out interesting meals.

Have a great time!

Heather

I agree that Europe is soooooooooo much more than just cities. The Berner Oberland in Switzerland is some of the most beautiful country I have ever seen. Gorgeous scenery, hiking, waterfalls, lush green everywhere, wildflowers. There is a hostel in Lauterbrunnen right on the main (only) street right next to the laundromat.

Your trip sounds awesome..i've been to all the places you have mentioned but I did it in several separate trips..I did
Ireland with England and Scotland..
and I used a rental car to get around rather than fly to all
those different countries..the train except for Ireland might
have been a better way to go..is your ticket one that you can change your flt itenery without a charge?? Some airlines charge exorbitant fees to change your itenery..but however you travel have a great, fun filled experience and be SAFE..be careful of pickpockets and thiefs in general especially since this is your first trip.....want it to be memorable from your good times ..I did alot of deli and grocery store shopping and did picnic like lunches which will save you money rather than going to a restuarant..anyway have fun end enjoy seeing your friends..take care

In terms of budget - I assume you are saying $2000 per person, yes? And this is to cover lodging, food, travel within cities, travel between cities and sightseeing - as well as walking around money (an ice cream or drink or ?) and nightlife?

It's hard for me to comment since this isn't our price point, but I do have some idea since my 19 year old went with 2 friends last summer and each spent well more than twice that. Granted they didn;t stay in hostels - but in budget hotels (they needed AC) - but they had searched carefully for low cost train fares and flights and didn't do any shopping at all.

$2000 is 1300 euros - or 51 euros per day. That seems to me woefullly inadequate if you expect it to cover transportation between cities - and entrance to any major sights. (The Eiffel Tower alone costs more than 13 euros to visit.)

Have you looked at the costs of a bed in a decent hostel? The cost of getting from one city to another? the cost of in-town transport? (No matter how young, some of these cities are large and you can;t walk everywhere.)

Hey guys! Thanks so much for all the kind advice. I have decided that my budget for this Euro trip including EVERYTHING (MINUS plane ticker) is $4000. I have been doing lots of research this weekend. My itinerary is not the best I know. I'm sad that I'm missing out on Switzerland, Croatia and Greece even though I know that I can't do all those places in one trip. Anyway, this is not just my Euro trip so I have to also respect my friend's wishes to go to Dublin. Sigh. Anyway, I want to stay positive because this is my first Euro trip and I don't want this to get in the way of my enjoyment. Ok moving on...I was thinking training from Barcelona to Rome, stopping at Nice on the way. It looks like a really tain ride though. Do you guys think this is a good idea? Thanx in advance!

Thats a very long train ride - I believe there is a ferry from Genoa to Barcelona, perhaps you could look at that as an alternative to flying?

Ok moving on...I was thinking training from Barcelona to Rome, stopping at Nice on the way. It looks like a really tain ride though. Do you guys think this is a good idea?>

It will take about 6 hours I suspect Rome to Nice and the last part has nice scenery along the Italian Riviera - and Nice to Barcelona about the same I suspect - so it depends on how long you want to sit on trains - there is an overnight train Nice to the Spanish border with connecting trains to Barcelona - save on a night in a hotel.

Anyway some days in Nice is great IMO - one of the absolute highlights of Europe IMO so go for it.

If you want to keep you total budget to $4000 fo 3 people includng tansit between cities you need to make some decisions now and commit to flights and trains in order to get the best prices. Otherwise I'm afraid you may find yourselves hungry and on a park bench by the end of the trip.

(When my daughter and friends went last summer they met a couple of american girls who were desperately waiting for money to be put into their checking account by parents - since many things had turned out to cost more than they expected.)

ok u guys we dropped spain AND ireland. Now we need to decide on a new itinerary lol. I was thinkin paris, belgium amsterdam, italy? What do u guys think? We ll get Eurail pass too

Eurail pass... have you actually computed the point to point vs. the pass cost difference? The pass makes sense if you travel EXTENSIVELY in high train fare countries, for example Switzerland and Germany during peak hours. Belgium and Netherlands travel distances are so short to make the Eurail pass worthwhile for this type of travel. France and Italy train fares are pretty low. For France, advance fares on TGVs are quite cheap. And finally, the slow train fares in Italy are very cheap. High speed trains require surcharges on top of the Eurail pass http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/pdfs/reservations.pdf

don't think of the classic Eurailpass however but the 4-country Eurail Select (Saverpass if two or more traveling together) valid in Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg as one unit) and France, Spain and Italy.

And if over 25 this pass is only sold in first class and IMO decades of traveling by train in Europe lead me to adamantly advise for the average traveler on the trip of a lifetime not to try to save a few bucks but go first class - especially if you are carrying much luggage.

So IMO the efficacy of a pass should be to compare it to first class fares, not second class as it is like comparing IMO apples to oranges.

Thanks sooooo much PalenQ and Greg for your comments. Ok y'all, this is my new and improved itinerary, which is still up for modifications so please feel free to gimme any inputs!!! My gf is letting me do most of the planning now haha.

June 8- arrive in PARIS at 9:40am
June 12- Leave PARIS to AMSTERDAM
June 16- Leave AMSTERDAM to BERLIN
June 20 - leave BERLIN to PRAGUE
June 22- leave PRAGUE to VIENNA
June 24- leave VIENNA to VENICE
June 26- leave VENICE to ROME
June 30- leave ROME to FLORENCE
July 2- leave FLORENCE to PARIS
July 3- arrive in PARIS
July 4 - leave PARIS 11:40am

Ok so I should not get the Eurail pass? Ok, point taken. I know that Italy trains are quite cheap. Any other recommendations on transportation with this new itinerary? Thanks again in advance!!

LOL! Sometimes it is definitely better to start again at square one.

My inclination would be to go south first just because it will most likely get warmer as your time goes on so hitting Rome before it gets really hot, and Amsterdam when it's warmed up. No guarantees on that of course.

Overnight trains that depart after 7pm only count on the day you arrive on a eurail pass so if you can sleep on the train (more comfortable than a plane) then you can save yourself some hotel costs, as well as time. I know others will scoff at my saying this but Venice is super expensive and you can get a great feel for it in one day so you could potentially take an overnight train from Paris to Venice (depart Paris at 7:27pm, arrive Venice at 9:19am), check out Venice and then get a train from Venice to Florence (depart 7:39, arrive 9:30pm). You've then still only used one day of your travel pass, seen Venice without paying through the nose, and saved on one nights accommodation.

You can check rail times at www.raileurope.com

Heather

Oops - there were other postings I didn't see.

If it were me I would extend Prague to four nights. I would probably leave out Vienna as we found it expensive and overrated. Had we known then what we know now would have gladly exchanged our two nights in Vienna for an extra two in Prague (we had four). However, I understand it's on your way and lots of people love it so maybe three nights in Amsterdam, three in Berlin then four in Prague?

I would still recommend going the other way around.

H

I think this is a great trip! I'd price out the flying against the rail passes to see what is more affordable. I think you have the time. You are going to do what many of us have done, which is a whirlwind trip to all these countries to get a flavor of it. There's nothing wrong with that. Flights out of Dublin aren't too pricey so that's doable. From there, you can take a day trip to Wicklow/Glendalough via a tour bus if you want to see greenery. I noticed you skipped Greece. I love Greece but I suppose you can't do it all! Prague is a wonderful city. I agree Vienna is overrated but we liked Salzburg. Paris is pricey but there's so much to see...eat at laduree.com for exquisite bakery goodies.
Your Plan: My suggestion:
Paris fly to Dublin roundtrip or Dublin into Amsterdam. Rail to Switzerland, Austria, Italy and fly from Italy to Spain round trip. Train back to Paris. You might be able to take the train to Barcelona. The train is a good way because you see a lot and you meet people. It's so fun. But flying is good too.

GL

Thanx guys! Hez, I see what ur saying about goin to Italy after Paris but my concern is if i want to buy stuff in Italy, wouldnt it be better to take Italy last? If i do italy early, then i have to lug around all my purchases which can get tiring. I dunno, that's just what I was thinking.

I really like Amsterdam, but I think you can take a day away from it and add a day somewhere else--either Venice or Rome would be my choice but your tastes may be completely different. And both are expensive.

Another thought: If you had a strong interest in a particular country you could probably delete one city and add a few nights in a "second-tier" city or large town and save some $$ because food and accommodations can be less pricey in smaller cities.

In any case, this sounds like a lot of fun!

Hey you guys, if Im going to the followng places: Paris to Amsterdam to Prague to Vienna to Venice to Rome to Florence to Paris, what is the best Eurail pass? I dont think I can do the Select 4 countries because it has to be 4 bordering countries but I really am not sure. It seems too confusing. Help please! lol. Ok once I get to Italy, my understanding is that the Eurail pass becomes less useful due to the more efficient train systems in Italy. Wow all this Euro planning is giving me a headache. If only I could just pay someone to plan it all out for me hahahah

I would always put weather above shopping, but that's me. You can always post things home from wherever you are in Europe though rather than lugging them around. I kind of assumed you wouldn't be doing any major shopping due to you saying you would be *backpacking* and your initial budget of $2000.

There is a 5 country pass (Benelux, France, Italy, Austria, Czech) but that would mean backtracking because you couldn't go through Germany (are you leaving out Berlin?). Otherwise, you would need the global pass which lets you go to as many countries as you like but of course you pay more for that.

Heather

You can do the 5-country Select Eurail Pass with Germany on it in place of the Czech Republic as train travel to and from the Czech border to Prague is very cheap but if you just want to hop on the train in Germany it can literally cost a fortune (unless you prebook way in advance online for the limited in number discounted and train-specific tickets.