Missed flight, got zapped $6500!
 

Last month I posted a trip report about a vacation my family and I took to Italy. I mentioned the six of us had missed our initial Air France flight out of New York's JFK because our flights from the West Coast - along with 40-50 other flights that afternoon - were prevented from landing for 2.5 hours because of severe THUNDERSTORMS. (In fact my flight had to re-fuel in upstate NY and my sons'flight re-fuled in PA.) By the time we got to the AF counter 15 minutes before take-off, Air France said that our 6 RT tickets to Italy were no longer valid. The agent said we could continue on if we purchased new tickets at day-of-departure prices(!) -- which meant an EXTRA $6500 -- besides the $5580 I'd already paid for the tickets! They got us on a flight 1.5 hours later, but what a heart-breaking penalty!

Well, here is the outcome of my request for a refund:
In a written reply to my written inquiry, Air France said that while they sympathized, we were however not due a refund and that the NY agent was kind not to charge us another $200 pp penalty! I feel this policy is incredibly outrageous. Their reason was that though I had scheduled to allow us 3 hours in NY to catch this AF flight, I had "not booked all the flights together." (In other words, I used Expedia.com to book the Air France flights and JetBlue.com and United.com to book the West Coast flights.)

Has anyone had a similar experience? Can anyone offer some leads about what I might do? Would a lawyer take such a case? I'm waiting to hear from ABC's "7 on Your Side" a consumer advocacy segment on TV, but I'm beginning to feel I may just have to take it on the chin.

What do the rules of your tickets say? I suspect you are out of luck. If you had called and rebooked before you left the West Coast, or even if you had called from an airphone while on the plane, you probably could have changed the flights and been charged some penalty, but not nearly as high.

You should have demanded to see a supervisor when it happened. It's hard to fix things like this after the fact. Did you try to dispute it with your credit card company? I'd also write to the BBB and Attorney General. It may or may not make Air France do something but at least it makes them respond to you. The next time something like that happens you have to fix it right then and there. I've had this happen several times if you call enough people you'll eventually get one of them that will do what you want as long as your nice but firm. If you scream at them you won't get very far.

I'm afraid you're going to have to eat the loss. That's why I never book multiple airlines on different tickets for the same day. No matter how much time you allow to make your connection, you never know what can happen - as in your case. Basically, you are screwed. It would have been nice if AF had allowed you to stand by for the next flight but that might now have been allowed by the rules of your fare. Sounds like you had nonrefundable tickets, which have lots of restrictions and you took a chance on making our connection, and unfortunately, you lost.

The one thing I'm wondering is if United rules might apply. United is really good about allowing same-day standbys. However, that idea is a real longshot. Why not post at TravelBuzz at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum to get feedback from experienced flyers?

If they were booked as separate tickets, (i.e., the segments were in no way tied to each other) I don't believe the airline would have any obligation, would they?

Especially since the delay was weather driven ("acts of god") that even further relieves the carrier of responsibility.

Blithespirit, what a terrible incident. I can only imagine how devasted you were (not to mention your bank account). I live near the Sacrmaneto airport and have thought about flying JetBlue from there to JFK and than taking a flight from there to Italy on another airline. Would sure save money BUT I have been afraid to do that because as you learned if you don't make your flight from JFK in time to board you are out of luck. Airlines are not giving anyone any breaks as they are all in big financial problems.
If you had purchased straight through than they would have accomodated you on the next available flight they could get you on. I have been wondering if I was being overconcerned about the rules, if I would be spending more money than necessary. Been thinking about this for two weeks. After reading your heartbreaking story I will know fly NW/KLM all the way from the west coast to Italy. With my luck I would have the problem you had if I flew to JFK on JetBlue (or any other airline that was not also flying me to Italy. I never have luck with "bargains" although so many people do. I really don't think you are going to get a cent back but for this amount of money I would sure follow through as you are. Good luck.

I'm afraid this incident is the perfect example of why you should always book your complete trip through either one carrier, foreign or domestic, or through a travel agent, a travel professional, who can handle everything for you, including any flight delay problems. And don't forget about picking up a little travel insurance while you're at it, just in case. You saved a couple of hundred dollars in agents fees only to end up playing a whole lot more.

Perhaps people will finally learn to never book multiple connections, especially overseas, through the on-line discount services. They are perfectly fine if you're going from point A to point B where you have no chance of missing a connection, but never when you have one or more connections to make.

As this incident has taught us, you're on your own, and in this case, neither Air France, nor any other airline, would have any responsibility.

Businesses ripping people off is one thing, the airline charging you a penalty for missing the flight, something that is likely stated on their contract of carriage or under the fare rules for your ticket is another. I can't see the BBB or the NY AG's office interceding when the airline didn't do anything remotely illegal.

While I'd suggest it would be better for their customer service to at least meet you half-way as a goodwill gesture, they aren't doing anything to you that you didn't agree to when you booked the ticket. Bad business, maybe. Illegal and worthy of a call to the AG, not even close.

The unfortunate reality is that you booked a flight to JFK separate from them. While 3 hours might seem like a long time, anyone who regularly flies on the East Coast during the Summer months can tell you about the havoc caused by thunderstorms.

You might try CondeNast Traveler's Ombudsman. They might be able to get AF to at least make some "goodwill" gesture.

An AF "good will" gesture is to give you an extra bag of peanuts.

I guess this somewhat relates. I would normally never do what you did -- book connecting flights from different sources for the very reason you found out. But a few years ago I booked flights from Naples (Florida) to Miami and then on to London Heathrow with American Airlines. On my own I booked a connecting flight from Heathrow to Dublin on AerLingus -- at a really cheap price -- but no refunds. Well, our flight from Naples to Miami was delayed and we missed our flight to London on AA, but they rebooked us on another flight just an hour later to Gatwick. (Also they bumped us from business class to first class). This part was expected and they came through as they should.
But here's the good part. When I complained that we had tickets from Heathrow to Dublin which now we couldn't use and couldn't get a refund for, would you believe they went ahead and booked us at their expense on BA from Gatwick to Dublin. I'm sure there was no reason for them to do that, but that's the difference between an airline that believes in customer service and one that doesn't.

Blithespirit, I'm so sorry you had this nasty experience. It is one thing to learn something the hard way, but boy did the fates have it in for you to have the lesson occur when SIX tickets were involved.

Alas, I must join the others and say you are probably out of luck. The contractual obligations of all the airlines involved are limited to getting you to whatever destination is on the ticket in question, from whatever origin is stated on said ticket. But the suggestion to try the ombudsman is a good one - the ombudsman might just convince AF to lower the penalty in view of SIX people being involved. It certainly can't hurt to try, and I do wish you luck.

In the last few years we have taken to doing as you did; we book an itinerary involving two separate tickets and two separate airlines (not even partnered.) However, we have never attempted connecting the two legs of the itinerary on the same day, in either direction. This is because our flying experience has included one too many instances of serious delays (way more than 2.5 hours.)

blithespirit:

This is awful and you have my sympathies. With a party of six, I understand that your options were limited at the time.

It IS something I am aware of when I book separate tickets; i.e. I know that if I miss the connection, for whatever reason, I will have to pay for a new ticket. The rules were always the same, its just that the airlines are getting more aggressive about imposing the rules. In the past, they accommodated passengers on later flights; now they interpret ?non-flexible tickets? as just that. I can?t really blame them for doing so, because the major carriers are being destroyed by the low-cost carriers and the low-cost carriers are setting the rules for lower-priced tickets. For example, if you miss a Ryanair connection because of a delay on another Ryanair flight, you still have to buy a new ticket!

That having been said, I think that they dealt with you particularly harshly and unfairly. Over the past year I have missed three flights because of traffic congestion on the M25 to Heathrow on cheap tickets (totally MY fault!) and in all cases British Midland, BA and Aer Lingus put me on later flights for a small change fee; God Bless them, because they did not have to do it.

I am shocked that they did not at least compensate you for the return portion of your ticket. I think that you should continue to pursue the case and appeal to their sense of fairness and good business practice to get back at least for half the fare. Keep escalating.

I have worked for two airlines and, for future reference, you have to deal with these issues at the airport, not after. Again, I understand how difficult this would have been with a party of six. I had a similar incident a few years ago with a BA flight to Cairo, which I missed because of a transit problem from Gatwick. The S** of a B**** ticket agent, the RUDEST person I have ever met, told me the flights were booked up for the next two weeks and there was nothing he was willing to do. I refused to leave the desk until he brought me his supervisor IN PERSON. That took 45 minutes! 2 hours later, I left the airport with a free hotel room, coupons for dinner and breakfast, taxi transfers and a confirmed ticket for the next day (I am STILL kicking myself that I did not hold out for a first class seat).

Unfortunately, its far more difficult these days to thread the line between justifiably outraged passenger and perceived ?air rage lunatic? (and the airlines are taking advantage of this) but you ARE entitled to see a supervisor if you can?t get satisfaction from the front-line staff.

I sincerely hope you get something back from the airline and I wish you the very best of luck.

Best regards Ger

I am so sorry for this outrageously expensive problem you had !!!!!

I do hope you can get some satisfaction from them .

Ger, you rock!

Would this have been covered under trip insurance? I think when booking for that big a group (spending that much all at once!) , I certainly would have taken out trip insurance...however I don't know if that would have been covered, so I guess it's a moot point.

I am surprised that since they had not given your seats away, they would charge such an outrageous amount. I, personally, would continue to pursue this. I wouldn't take my first reply as definite. I would just state my case again as calmly as possible, and try to get someone who sypathizes with me...perhaps on the phone.

I'm wondering, too, if trip insurance would have covered you. I've been taking it out lately for trips abroad, mainly for the medical benefits if something should happen. I think the policies do mention "missed connections" benefit, but I'm not sure how much that is limited to. Would be interesting to know this.

I just don't trust connecting flights. I live in Reno and my flights to Europe and Hawaii go out of SFO. I fly down the day before and stay in San Mateo or in the case of Europe, at my brother's house in Sonoma County. Even with the motel price for my Hawaii flights, the cost is worth it for my peace of mind. On the Europe flights, my brother and I just get the airporter from Santa Rosa on the day of our flight. I find I sleep better the night before, and I'm just so much more relaxed. Up here, unless you get the first flight out in the morning, any flight after that can be delayed. I've waited for crews to be flown in, planes comeing from Portland, Pheonix etc, that are running behind. This is just so much more relaxing to me as I know that plane to Heathrow is NOT going to wait for me. When i flew into SFO from Paris last trip, I booked the last flight going to Reno in the afternoon just incase the plane was late or I got caught up in customs somehow. I had about a three hour wait at SFO, but a couple of lattes, and a magazine makes the time go by pretty fast. I think things have changed as far as flexability and customer service, even from a few years ago and as the airlines seem to keep loosing huge amounts of money, and cut back on all the services and amenities, we are going to find that they are going to be less and less forgiving and will collect the money if they can. I'm sure I'm not the only one old enough to remember how delightful it was to fly, even in coach, before de-regulation. The airlines competed on service, not price so it was wonderful. But, things are different now and I guess some of the "crap" you had to go through is the price we pay for the low fares. I am so sorry you had to go through all that. What a shame. Hope you have better experiences in the future.

Be very careful buying trip insurance--there are many, many exclusions and the policies are very careful in woreding what is covered. Read the coverages and exceptions carefully, and do compare different companys' offerings.

Don't know if this situation would be covered by travel insurance. I just got back from Italy. I had travel insurance and when all the rumors were circulating about Alitalia going on strike i asked my travel agent if it was covered if i had to switch carriers and she said that it was. I may have to pay up front but that the insurance co would re-imburse. Blithespirit, i am very sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing, i know i will ask about that in the future. I hope someone steps forward that can change your situation.

About 3 years ago, I booked a flight through Expedia from BWI (Baltimore) to Bordeaux via Gatwick on BA. We were coming from St. Louis. I booked a separate flight from STL to BWI on TWA (when it was still operational). We had a 1 1/2 hr wait at BWI before boarding for Gatwick and we came on time. But we needed to re-check-in at the counter and when we got into the counter (after luggage retrieval), there was a LONNNNG line. We were one of the last, if not the last people on the line for that flight. By the time we got up front, it was 10-15 minutes before take off and they wouldn't let us in anymore. Actually there were 7 of us, including our party of 3 who couldn't board anymore. I refuse to leave until I talked to the SUPERVISOR for options. 3 hours later, we were on the line at Dulles, bound for Heathrow and holding business class upgrade. All 7 of us were bussed from BWI to Dulles by BA.I think the lesson I learned here was to resolve the matter right there and then with a more senior person who has the power to make decisions and/or present you with options. Just my 2 cents.

I fail to see how a "travel professional" is going to prevent something like this as was implied above. A "non-travel professional" can do as much by booking tickets on the same carrier, etc.

A travel professional would have linked all the legs of the flights together, to help prevent this problem, I believe.

I am a strong proponent of using local travel agents.

--Marv (PS: I am not a travel agent and not related to one either)

Marv

Many people still prefer using a travel professional, it's true, but using one isn't necessary to link the legs of an itinerary together.

You do need to understand the alliance system.
Oneworld - BA, AA, Aer lingus, Iberia, and others (which might explain why BA arranged for another poster to get a rebooked Aer Lingus flight);

Star - ACanada, United, US Airways (!), Lufthansa, bmi, and others;

Skyteam - Delta, Continental, Alitalia (status somewhat uncertain as of 9 Sept 04), KLM, Air France, and others;

Discount airlines (Jetblue, Ryanair, etc. - all as far as I know completely independent, no interline agreements even within their own operations!)

You can always call a given airline directly and have them book an itinerary, in the event their website doesn't handle complex itineraries involving their alliance partners. Alternatively, on Expedia, for example, to link the legs together, here's how I'd proceed: select a single trip, albeit a multiple destination itinerary, and then select the legs carefully from airlines known to be partnered; you must also tinker the combinations and permutations so as to minimize the cost. Sometimes Expedia automatically computes such an itinerary for one, but not always. If in doubt, you can always call the Expedia help desk.

While it is true one can sometimes negotiate with desk agent supervisors in the event one's separately ticketed flight arrives too late, the outcome depends on a ton of variables: whether the airline managed to sell the seat one turned up too late to occupy (original flight might have been already overbooked anyway); whether there's space on subsequent flights; the fare category of the original tickets; the FF status of the people involved, etc. etc. It's always worth the attempt to negotiate, obviously, but counting on a happy outcome is dicey, as this sad tale proves.

"Split-ticketing" is a technique that travel professionals have long used, particularly for international itineraries.

However, it is a case of reward and risk, and everyone who uses this technique (whether self-booking or thorugh a travel agent) should be aware of the consequences.

The reward, of course, is that it is often much cheaper to but separate tickets for different legs of an itinerary than to have a single ticket covering origin to destination.

The risks are well illustrated by this case. Your baggage is not shipped through to destination and you must recheck at the intermediate point. If the first flight is delayed and you miss the second, you are usually completely out of luck, as was the case with the OP.

If the price with split tickets is really good compared to a single one, you may still save money and reduce the risks by staying overnight at the intermediate point.

I should have added that you would be out of luck if you miss the second flight AND you had purchased a non-flexible ticket such as a consolidator fare. That's usually the case with split ticketing as you are looking for the cheapest price from origin to destination.

This does not surprise me from Air France. My sister booked 2 tickets to Italy for a specific fare. She repeated the fare a couple of times to the clerk. When she received the tickets they were double the price quoted. Air France said that particular call was not recoreded and they wouldn't do anything about it. They also leave too short a time between changes. I never use Air France. They aren't customer friendly at all.

I agree that this problem has nothing to do with whether or not you use a "travel professional". Of course, a travel professional's first action would probably be to book the flights linked together to avoid such a problem, but you can do that yourself if you are so inclined. And if you push the travel professional for the lowest price fare he is just as likely to book unlinked flights as you are.

Although Air France seemed to be very rough on you they are still within legal rights. This is what can go wrong when you book a trip on 2 seperate tickets. You rights are only guaranteed when the ticket is purchased under one ticket number.

Thank you all for commiserating with me. I may not get my money back, but sharing the grief has helped lighten the load. I thought I had been doing the smart thing, but apparently I wasn't. I was ignorant of the "booking all flights together thing."

I was opting for convenience rather than frugality when booking my original flights. Basically, I wanted to fly out of the more convenient Oakland airport rather than hecka-busy San Francisco one across the Bay, but for this convenience, the tickets were either priced inexpicably more or the flights from Oakland had way too many connections. Jet Blue seemed like the obvious choice out of Oakland to New York.

And yes, I DID call AF when I felt we wouldn't make our flight - upon landing to re-fuel in upstate New York. I was put on hold and then had to hang-up when our flight was about to take off. Back in the air I expressed my concern to the Jet Blue flight attendant who said, "don't worry, if flights can't land on-time at JFK, flights can't take off on-time." Well, he was wrong.

With regard to speaking with an Air France supervisor... Picture me running and trying to talk to an AF representative on my cellphone as we take the Skytrain to the correct terminal at JFK. When I'm finally connected to a rep on the phone, she tells me I'm going to have to purchase new tickets - I thought she must have it wrong. But then the agent at the ticket counter along with his supervisor are also reluctantly telling me we have to purchase new tickets. Meanwhile I'm thinking -- we only have a week in Italy, when will we get there - tomorrow? the day after that? ever? And where is my late husband now that his family really needs him?

Yea, you could say I was a bit stressed and feeling sorry for myself. That's why I whipped out my credit card right then and there... I think now of that travel incident as "roulette": $6500 on red -- and I lost. And no, my cavalier attitude does not mean I can afford it - hardly. At least I hope I've passed on a painful but valuable lesson.

Wow, so much misinformation here that I'd say this thread is becoming useless. Just a few points:

- It really has nothing to do with Air France. Most airlines will do the same.

- It really has nothing to do with alliance. You can book tickets on the same itinerary on non-alliance airlines. For example, right now I have a CO/CO/CX/CO ticket in my hand, even though CO and CX are not alliance airlines.

- Most major airlines (again, alliances don't matter) have interline baggage agreement. So, the bags will be transferred if such an agreement is in place, <b>even if you're flying on two seperate tickets.</b> Of course, if you first flight is late, then your bags will not make the connection just like yourselves.

Anyways, this is a good lesson for those who'd try to save a little and buy seperate tickets with a relatively short connection.

Another lesson learned (besides the value of booking a single itinerary/ticket) is that 3 hours is simply not enough time to allow for connection at a major international airport these days, especially if you *really* need to make that next flight.

Whoa! Yea, I can see where I might appear miserly, trying to save a few bucks, but convenience was more the factor. Is a 3-hour connection time too short? What would be more reasonable? 6 hours?

My beef is: Weather or &quot;acts of God&quot; can prevent anyone from making their flight connections and the airlines should accommodate those who make a reasonable effort to make their flights in such cases. I'm even willing to pay a penalty for missing the flight. But to charge me more than double for the same flights?!

Hi Blithe,

You have a problem that comes under the heading of Customer Relations. Have you written the President of AF?

Ouch! Lots of lessons learned here. I'm sorry for you Blithespirit (your name does imply something relevant here, doesn't it?)and I'm with you all the way because it's something I would have tried in an effort to save money, especially for so many tickets. It's a lot of money saved when multiplied by 6. Lesson learned, I'm following the straight and narrow trail. Still, lots of good advice about pursuing the proper people. I would hope they would knock that $6500 down. That's a couple of vacations right there.

I am so sorry to hear about this story. We flew AirFrance for a leg of our trip to Italy for our honeymoon last June and never again. Even Iberia has better service than these guys!
I'd also try ira's suggestion. Write a very nice letter to the president and perhaps mention that you make (or plan to make) a lot of international trips and would like to continue using AirFrance... blah blah blah... have always been treated fairly before this incident and are thus horrified at what has happened this time...

Good luck, I really do hope you can get some compensation for all you spent...

I'm so sorry Blithespirit...that is a LOT of money. It hurts!

Blithespirit, well yes (and as you found out) in my opinion three hours is not enough time to be sure of making your next flight. I allow 2-3 hours even when I?m transferring on the same ticket with the same airline in a busy airport. Especially in your situation, with six people traveling, ticketing through three different airlines, and a nightmare of an airport like JFK.

You do have my sympathy for the money lost, don?t get me wrong. But to expect airlines to start refunding money or granting new tickets for things they cannot control (like the weather or people showing up on time for their flights), well I don?t think that?s reasonable.

I fly between Washington, DC and Belfast on a regular basis, and this always requires a connecting flight. I book everything through the United site. As others have said, since I book everything through the one airline, they take care of me when I'm delayed (and often get delayed out of Belfast). However, BA is one airline that doesn't take that sort of thing into consideration.

Also, someone else mentioned OneWorld and other alliances. Those things are worthless. I learned my lesson the last time I flew BA. Forget who we flew into Heathrow on, but one of their supposed OneWorld &quot;partners&quot;. Our flight was delayed, and although we could have just made the flight, and we had to cough up the 100 GBP for a night in a hotel. The BA guy told us it didn't matter which airline we flew in with, and even though it was a OneWorld airline, they wouldn't give us a hotel voucher.

I still will use 2-ticket itineraries to Europe. I just follow these guidelines:

Leave at least one overnight between the first airline and the second.
Know what the other options are if the second airline suddenly doesn't work out for whatever reason (cancelled flight, etc.).

Thus, in a case where I had to fly from Oslo to London, I left two overnights because the other means of transport other than flying would have taken a long time if I had suddenly had to use them. I had a nonrefundable, nonchangeable flight from London, so it was essential I leave enough time.

For my upcoming trip, I am cutting things a little close on the return by taking a flight from Rome the night before my afternoon flight from Heathrow. But I have an alternate flight in mind if that doesn't work out, and if that still doesn't work out, I can phone up Air Canada well in advance and change the home-bound portion of the ticket for $200 (and likely be delayed a day).