London Pubs. Politics
 

I am from Boston, USA.
First time in London this Oct.
I hope to enjoy London pubs and I would like to really get a flavor for the lively, political pub life. I am not sensitive at all to anti-Americanism. Any suggestions?

I wouldn't say that politics are much of a topic of conversation in pubs, to be honest. It's more likely to be gossip about your friends/what happened to you at work today/last night's football on TV/etc etc....

I'm not sure what you are asking. Do you want to go to a pub and talk about politics? You can try. You might get some takers, you might not.

Or were you just asking how you get to join in with the conversations in pubs and the 'politics' was a bit of a red-herring?

"lively"

I'm afraid you're in for a shock.

People will talk to you about just about anything - but politics will be low on the list.

Don't worry about "anti-americanism". A few wrong 'uns notwithstanding, most of us know the difference between yanks as people and the yankee government. In general we're keen on one, less so on the other.

London has two types of pubs. One is the 'local' where neighbors visit. They are often 'unfriendly' to unsponsored guests. The second is an open type hosting casual visitors. Inquire at your hotel about a 'local'. Be prepared to buy a 'round'. At the casual bar, ask for a recommendation of a beer or ale. In Wales I got a whole afternoon of Port tasting after inquiring...I did the same in Scotland askingt for scotch information. Ask at your hotel for a nearby pub with the best 'pub grub'.

In general pubs on the tourist trail in London are grim. They have no need to build up return business.

However even in the most touristy places you will find (usually down a backstreet) pubs where people who work in the area go after work.

Where about are you staying?

Two good websites for picking out a pub are

www.fancyapint.com

and www.beerintheevening.com

i would not have high expectations about interacting with 'the locals'. i agree with CW that central london's pub culture is pretty grim overall. most pubs though are not touristy pubs...they are party pubs for young people who converge on london from the suburbs or working types getting pi$$ed after work. both groups are not very friendly to be around and these types of pubs might not be what you have in mind. the other type are the quieter, more local oriented places where people aren't really looking to talk to strangers.

many pubs contain an element of both...a contingent of regulars and the roving pub crawlers who are looking for a party.

in general we are very private people. most of us would rather be waterboarded than have to talk to a stranger. mobile phones are our crutch. we stare down at them constantly to avoid having to make eye contact with strangers.

i would say that boston is a rather unfriendly place as american cities go....it's very difficult for outsiders there. however, i think london is in another league when it comes to unfriendliness.

another tip is to learn how to say 'sorry'. that's another one of our social crutches. we can have full five minute conversations just consisting of saying sorry to the other participant in our conversation. for example, if you approach the bar and someone is blocking your way:

person 1: "Sorry" (meaning - get out of my way!)

person 2: "Oh Sorry" (meaning - ok, i see you, yeah i'll get out of the way when i'm good and ready.

person 1: "Sorry" (meaning - it's ok, don't get riled...i'm cool.)

person 2: "Sorry" (meaning - ok i'm getting out of your way now. i see you just want a beer)

we are bizarre and socially handicapped people. good luck trying to engage us in a proper conversation. i feel for you.

Thank you all

Walkaround,

You are right about Boston, are you saying London is much more closed?

I'm staying in Notting Hill.

I'll be there about two weeks before the American elections. I hoped to get into discussions about what Europeans think about them, am I just dreaming?

Most Notting Hill pubs are full of trustafarian wankers and other scuffers.

However there is one pub that fits the bill perfectly. It's the Uxbridge Arms:

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs...s/Notting_Hill

It used to be my regualr haunt when I was attached to NH Probabtion.

The Hillgate nearby isn't too bad either. All the other pubs in the area are beyond the pale - unless you like 20 year old ex MPS schoolboys playing at being DJs.

A little off topic...but my favorite London pub memory is of the "gentleman" who sat with us (uninvited) because he was convinced that my husband was Dustin Hoffman. (There is absolutely no resemblance, however.) Not only that, he had on a large overcoat and kept pulling out large cans of Fosters from the pockets--what we call "oil cans." He was harmless, but a pest nonetheless.

www.hereinfranklin.wordpress.com

If you really want "political" conversations the following Westminster venues are worth a try:

The Red Lion - 48 Parliament St

St Steven's Tavern - 10 Bridge St

Westminster Arms (upstairs)- 9 Storey's Gate

While politicos drink at these, you also get quite a lot of tourists and they can get very crowded.

The best guide I've seen to pub etiquette:

http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html

owain...that pub guide is complete nonsense and describes pub life from 75 years ago. i suggest ignoring it.

I've never discussed politics in a pub. Why is this even an issue?

Pubs are not hotbeds of political debate. You're much more likely to hear people discussing their private lives or TV shows or movies - or perhaps some scandal of local interest.

Also, I think you have a very mistaken view of the political views of the British public. By and large they are NOT anti-american. If you can get people to talk politics (which may be very difficult) I think you will find they are anti the current administration - as are the vast majority of the american public - and not anti-american at all.

And "debating"anything in pubs would be considered quite odd.

If you want to debate people on american politics I think you'll find it much easier to do here at home.

and let's not assume that all britons are passionately anti-bush. while most find him pretty ridiculous as a persona, it is quite common for britons to agree with his politics in many ways and to ironically find him and all his bumbles and straight talk a little refreshing as compared to our smooth talking blair (who likes bush btw). and with what we now have in office, most britons are not too quick to criticise other leaders, even bush. finally, running around criticising bush after about 5-6 years is pretty old....passion about this is pretty deflated and we are worried more about our own incompetent leaders (as we should be).

i appreciate that some britons here do like to lecture americans about the evils of bush but as the chatter in our pubs, what is there left to say after 5-6 years of this?

you say you are not sensitive to anti-americanism. just be a normal guy and don't try to play the american. i think it's a little offputting when americans visit britain and think it's all about THEIR leaders, their election, etc. forget about your americanism and just enjoy britain. and the ones who go around putting down their government, etc thinking that it will score points with us and somehow prove they are different than 'typical americans' are annoying (yes, i do see plenty of these).

just talk about the weather.

walkinaround is right - talk about the weather - EVERYBODY will have something to say about that :)

Some visitors do give the semi-impression that "England is a theme park where locals in the pubs will amuse me w/ interesting chatter. And the quaint towns are just so twee."

Not saying that is what you meant - but that is sort of how some of us do come across . . . . . . .

Topics of discusssion in the pub last night:

The Ryder Cup

Football - various

Job prospects in the city

The bristols on a particularly lucky lady

Work stuff

Girlfriend stuff (don't ask me what - it's just a noise).

That's pretty normal.

Likely topics of conversation from my experience (i.e. male perspective)

Football ("soccer")

Girls (with or without large "Bristols")

Work (normally how much everyone hates it, so and so in Finance is a t*&t, that bird in HR is a definite)

Potentially some stuff about Gordon Brown (Yo Blair's substitute)


Definitely not American politics unless it is taking the mickey out of GWB

"owain...that pub guide is complete nonsense and describes pub life from 75 years ago. i suggest ignoring it."


Hmmm, there must be a timewarp at the door of my local, then ;)

I lived there for 4 years in the '80's and I think the only time I had even vaguely political discussions in a pub were during the very short period before an election, and in some pubs near the Old Bailey, or along Fleet Street, or the one pub around Middle Temple.

Now, when I lived in France, we spent a LOT of times in bars and cafes discussing politics . . . .

I think most people in England will simply not discuss at all seriously the things that are really important or sensitive - or not with a stranger (unless they're the incurable egotists who go on bare-it-all daytime TV, and if you meet one of them in a pub, you should run a mile).

In any case, the ins and outs of the current American campaign are not really part of everyday experience here, so you won't get much in the way of interesting comment from a different perspective. I mean, all I know of Sarah Palin is an uncanny resemblance to Karen Walker in "Will and Grace" (and which character does that make McCain?!).

Mind you, you could be welcome in the standard local if you end up in discussion with anyone who really wants to debate UK politics in any detail, because you may well be taking the pub bore off everyone else's hands.

Football, jobs, weather, "bristols", travel, and personal abuse are all common discussions at my favourite haunts - but these discussions are between a group of friends. For an "outsider to be included would normally take some sort of introduction from one of the group - sort of "and this is my mate Dave the Yank - he's from Boston, but don't hold that against him" and even then it would take some time for the others to make a judgement before you were included.

Maybe I belong to a clanish bunch and this behaviour is not normal. It is not meant as antisocial, just the way it tends to be.

Have been to the UK many times - and have - eventually - gotten into some discussions in pubs.

Most have revolved around - where you are from, what it's like, and when they hear it's NYC - do you know so and so who lives there (and don't among 9 million people) and hints for traveling there - or other places.

(We had one quite long conversation about the Costa del Sol - and which towns were good and bad. Locals may have been discussing politics among themselves - but no one ever did with us.)

>>>>>
We had one quite long conversation about the Costa del Sol - and which towns were good and bad.
>>>>>>

ahh yes, the costa del sol...one of our favourite topics.

unless you enjoy going to spain to eat fish and chips, get drunk in british and irish pubs, wear your football kit and watch the footie on tv, i would not take advice about spain from a briton.

the 'good' towns are the ones with the most chippies and british pubs. the 'bad' towns are the ones with all that awful spanish food and few british football pubs.

Shoreditch Twat: Is there ANYTHING you like about living here?

And you clearly know sod all about pubs.

I find the idea of going to Britain to discuss US politics rather bizarre. One of the joys of living in Britain (I am American) is being somewhat sheltered from the non-stop election coverage on the other side of the Atlantic.

TKT,
I am from Boston also and have been to London numerous times...do your pub hopping and just enjoy whatever conversation arises either with the bartender or any locals that may be near you, and yes they will talk politics if you are so inclined. But for a real political debate go to Speakers Corner in Hyde Park on a Sunday morning, that is a great experience, and it is there that you will find anti war and anti Bush speakers,as well as an array of other topics, it is a great experience, and a real flavor of London. As for "Walkinaround" saying Boston is an unfriendly city, I feel that it absolutely not true and although biased I think the majority of the people of Boston go out of their way to assist visitors...as for their driving...well that a different story...

Mikek

Yes, Walkinaround you MUST follow the party line. ;)

(My above remark wasn't about Boston, btw.)

If you want any insight at all into British attitudes to politics - or even hear a debate - stay as far away from Speakers Corner as you possibly can.

A bunch of loonies shouting their obsessions at any passers by do not constitute debate, mild eccentricity or anything but certifiable insanity.

For exposure to British views on politics, stay tuned to Radio 4, or read a decent cross section of the papers, from The Sun, through the Daily Mail, to the Mirror and Independent.

Or listen to and watch "political" comedy shows, lke The News Quiz on Radio 4 (aka Have I Got News For You on BBC-TV) or Mock The Week.

Post a question on this site just before leaving about what TV "political" TV and radio comedy is worth watching/listening by then, and what really ought to be put out of its misery.

&quot;<i>But for a real political debate go to Speakers Corner in Hyde Park on a Sunday morning,</i>&quot; Maybe it has been 25 or 30 years since you've been to Speakers' Corner. There is absolutely NO intelligible debate going on there. Years and years ago it was fun/interesting. But now-a-days there is really nothing but insane nutters screaming at anyone w/i earshot.

...and janisj and I did not confer on those answers.

Their remarkable similarity is simply down to the fact that the Speakers' Corner mob really do constitute the best possible demonstration that you don't have to go to the red states to find hard-core loons.

And believe it or not, even the very worst recesses of US dickhead talk radio do loon-ness with greater wit, sanity and tolerance of the other bloke's (it's always blokes) point of view than the pillocks at Speakers' Corner.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
And you clearly know sod all about pubs.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

oh no, not that insult. next you'll be saying i'm 'not fit for purpose' or that i know sod all about the royal family. you've clearly gone too far. too far.

you're so precious and cute when you passionately defend british honour.

Hey JanisJ...no one said it was an intelligent debate, but discussion, yes of American politics as the original writer was seeking...and no it hasnt been 25 years, try 6 months, and before that 9 months, and before that 12 months...I go every 3 months for business and every Sunday I am in London, I frequent Speakers Corner...too bad you dismiss people with an opinion as &quot;insane nutters&quot;...must be nice to be perfect...mikek

Interesting reaction - I didn't attack you. Simply commented on the &quot;<i>quality</i>&quot; of debate at Speakers' Corner. If you notice, I wasn't the only one to say <u>exactly</u> the same thing.

Wrong side of the bed or what????

TKT, I think you'd enjoy speaker's corner. Lively and political anyway, even though not a high level exchange of ideas.

All speakers were male persons of color last time I was by there, apropos of nothing, except one brave woman with an interesting mad look surrounded by loud young hecklers. I think her subject was metaphysical, but heckling made it difficult to follow.

There is no real political debate in UK pubs - far too much glass and alcohol about.
The nearest you get to debate is those on the same side expressing shades of opinion around something they already agree on.
Don't forget that the left and right truly despise one another here.They do not debate.

Don't forget that the left and right truly despise one another here.They do not debate.&gt;&gt;&gt;

Yes they do. Lots of my mates are trots and we get on fine.

That's because, come the revolution, it'll be a toss-up as to which of you is first (as Trots ought to know, but somehow never seem to learn)...