When I travel, I watch my purse like a hawk because it always contains items much more valuable to me than my money, credit cards or passport. I carry my 3 pairs of glasses (distance, prescription sunglasses and reading) in my purse at all times and while I can replace my passport, cancel the one credit card and write off the lost money, I can’t easily replace my glasses and they are more costly to replace than my passport or money. So I always carry a purse, but when walking on the street I always have my purse on the opposite shoulder from the street and walk on the sidewalk as far away from the street as possible. When I cross the street, I take my purse off my shoulder and hold it against my chest.

By the way, I don’t carry my passport in my purse and I always carry one credit card and a limited amount of money around town.

Don't they have optical labs in Europe where you can walk in with a prescription and out with new specs in an hour - as we have dozens of in the US?

Passepartout,
I wish you were there standing with a purse and i was riding by on a scooter (you forgot speed power, Einstein) and yanked your purse from you and you would be standing still while my scooter will spinning wheels without going any further...what is your mass 500LB?

"If an assailant's momentum causes a force of x pounds to be applied to the purse strap (and its owner), the same x is applied to the assailant." - that is, if I remember to apply the said force!

Meaning I am alone in some strange place, completely freaked out, or can't understand what's going on as it takes a split second, and you think I will apply anything?

Or, wait, maybe you're saying the purse snatched off my shoulder will apply the force? Where do I buy one?

Passepartout, it happened. I saw her bruises. You didn't. I don't care if the scenario doesn't fit your version of the laws of physics. How rude of you to basically call someone a liar. If you can't offer good travel advice, what, pray tell, purpose are you serving by participating on this TRAVEL board?

Ziana - there is no concept in physics of which I am aware called <i>speed power</i>. I think you probably mean <i>momentum</i>, and that's exactly what produces the force I mentioned. I never said that the purse-carrier would be unmoved (in fact, I pointed out repeatedly that s/he <i>would</i> be), so that whole line of argument is bogus.

FainaAgain - &quot;you think I will apply anything?&quot; No, I didn't say that. Your very mass produces a resistance to the force applied to the strap which is equal to the force pulling on it. Substitute a spring scale for the strap, and have someone pull on it. There will be a force of x pounds, which you will both feel <u>equally</u>.

MelJ - &quot;How rude of you to basically call someone a liar.&quot; Please be so kind as to point out exactly where I did any such thing. I'm here asking questions.

A reminder whenever and whereever one is travelling..

Friends of mine were on our SF/BayArea BART this last weekend. They were departing the US to fly home. One of them had their backpack stolen while on BART. I don't know all of the details yet but the passport and credit cards were retrieved. Evidently a homeless person going through a trash can found everything. They said that the BART employees were very helpful.

The friends are very experienced travellers btw.

Regarding prescription glasses. Not all prescriptions can be made in an hour or even a day. Mine usually takes a week. I consequently always have duplicate pairs just in case.

Safe travels to everyone.

LoveItaly,
I suppose PassportOut never wore glasses nor he ever owed scooter and I doubt he had a purse...One question left - did he travel? EVERRRRR?

Passepartout, sweetie, threshold is quite high, thank you very much. I just had to suppress the yawns at your boring physics and classics lessons when all Dutyfree was trying to do was give us all a safety reminder. Someone had to point out what a bore you are.

Returning to the subject. Reminded me of a horrible incident in London in 1999 which I have found on the BBC website:

&quot;A murder hunt is under way after a Swedish tourist died following a mugging incident only two hours after she arrived in London.
Maria Wodianitzky, 49, died on Tuesday in hospital after the attack in Knightsbridge on Saturday.

She had just arrived in London with her ex-husband and her 14-year-old son to begin a week's holiday staying at a flat in Kensington.

They were on their way to the flat on a double-decker bus when a man tried to grab her handbag, which she was carrying strapped across her body.

He dragged her across the bus and jumped off, taking his victim with him. Mrs Wodianitzky fell into the road, hitting her head, while the attacker ran off empty-handed.&quot;

So much for Mrs Wodianitzky's total mass helping her out. Do you think she was maybe, duh, taken by surprise?So who really cares about an assailant's momentum of x pounds? The woman ended up DEAD.

In a perfect world, those who say that bad experiences that happened to others were

a) the victims fault (too careless, old, stupid or whatever)

or

b) couldn't really have happened because in their experience it hasn't or hasn't seemed likely to happen

and, they therefore are unable to display or express any human sympathy or empathy, would, in time, experience all those awful unlikely things that poor victims catch the blame for.

If only...

No, Ziana, I don't believe he ever travels. I've asked his alter ego directly several times and the question is always avoided.

He DOES have the RER map memorized though.

I think it is because his Passport Out.
Well, I never minded entertainment here.

I believe you must have me confused with Passepartout, starrsville.

But, let's put your money where your mouth is. How much are you willing to bet that I'm not well-traveled (according to criteria you define)? We'll have a mutually agreed Fodorite hold the stakes.

No contest needed. Just share some first hand travel experience. I don't recall you ever doing so. I'm not saying you haven't - just don't ever recall a first hand recommendation of hotel, restaurant, etc. And, when I've asked, it has been ignored.

And, yes, I do believe Roby is Passy.

starrsville, you've made a borderline slanderous accusation about Robespierre. I think it should be incumbent upon you to prove your assertion or promulgate an apology.

At least, that's what you'd do if you had an ounce of class.

I fail to see the slander. I stated that I do not ever remember reading a first hand TRAVEL experience by Roby. I have also stated that I believe that Passy is the alias Roby uses when he needs to - or chooses to.

My opinion that Roby does not actually travel anywhere will be immediately changed when I read any travel experience that Roby may choose to share on this travel forum.

His expertise with RER is very much appreciated by novice Paris travelers on this board. That advice is very useful.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34677367

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34575297

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34605936

&quot;I fail to see the slander.&quot; Well, you would fail to see it, wouldn't you? In my lexicon, when one accuses another of exaggerating his travel experience, that's tantamount to calling the person a liar. That's slander. Unless you can back it up.

If you read Robespierre's many posts about his time in Paris and Glasgow as a student, and his 13 years with transoceanic airlines, and his Chinese PC importing business in the '80s, you wouldn't be making such scurrilous accusations.

GREAT! I STAND CORRECTED.

Zaina, Roby has indeed traveled to Paris.

That was easy. I wonder why Roby didn't do that earlier?

Of course, that means Passy has indeed traveled to Paris if he is indeed Roby.

Thanks for the links, Roby.

Passy, (I'm so confused. It keeps switching between who is addressing me), I don't remember saying you (as Roby) exaggerated your travel experiences. If anything, the opposite is true. I said I didn't think Roby traveled at all. Roby has cleared that up by posting some first hand recommendations - and giving some background from Roby from years ago.

But, if, as you say, &quot;that's tantamount to calling the person a liar&quot;, was Passy calling the OP and others liars when they shared their first hand experiences - and Passy argued those aren't possible due to physics?

In your &quot;lexicon&quot;, is that the same or different?

Actually, I posted the itineraries of our last four family trips on a thread that got deleted about a week ago because people started flinging poo at me. Some of the stops we made were:

London
Aberdeen
Bath
Salisbury
Portsmouth
Cardiff
Paris
Bayeux
Lausanne
Gruy&egrave;re
Z&uuml;rich
F&uuml;ssen
M&uuml;nchen
Remagen
Bonn
K&ouml;ln
Delft
Rotterdam
Hoek van Holland

Photos available upon application.

That would be interesting. Passy's last statement gives the impression that Roby hasn't traveled since the 80's.

What would be interesting (<i>antecedent, please!!!</i>)?

Again, if you took the trouble to look up some of Robespierre's postings, you will find that he, his wife and three children also traveled throughout the '90s and '00s. But if you researched it, you'd have to curtail your sniping, and you wouldn't be able to stand that, would you?

And again: if you read my physics posts carefully, you will find that <u>nowhere</u> did I deny the possibility of what was being described - I was merely asking how anyone thought it was possible. And anyway, to say that one doesn't know how something works doesn't deny its possibility, nor does it reflect upon the credibility of whoever is reporting it.

I honestly believe that <i>some</i> people have been injured (or, heaven forefend, killed) by muggers who grabbed their purse straps. Many other injuries didn't involve straps - the victims were just knocked down.

I also feel (due to the physics involved) that one's possessions are probably much safer in a purse with a steel-reinforced strap carried bandolier style - and that the diminution in personal safety caused by the presence of the strap is vanishingly small. You may, of course disagree ... but that doesn't make either of us wrong.

&gt;&gt;And, yes, I do believe Roby is Passy.&lt;&lt;

Snort. As if there's a doubt about this?

Those are some LOW life Italians - mugging elderly women &amp; nuns!!

&gt;if you read my physics posts carefully, you will find that nowhere did I deny the possibility of what was being described - I was merely asking how anyone thought it was possible &lt;

I think this truly is the twilight zone.

Oh - and here's one from last month: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34865991

Oh, my goodness. Antony!

Are you really still recommending that Fodorites stay in the exurbs of Paris? Most want to stay IN Paris - not 10 miles away.

But, if it works for you, I guess. I just hope you let them know exactly how far out from Paris it really is - not just the travel time on the RER.

It's like someone wanting to stay in Atlanta being told to stay in Snellville, GA. Nothing necessarily bad about Snellville, but it's a suburb of Atlanta, not Atlanta.

My apologies. I just read the OP's request on that thread and that is actually what she is looking for. Great advice to her.

When I read &quot;Antony&quot; it took me back to a thread a year or so ago when someone wanted to stay IN Paris and Antony was recommended.

My bad.

Repeat this again and again: I'm <i>not</i> obsessing. I'm <i>not</i> obsessing.

By the way, that thread a year ago had my handle all over it. And you missed that at the time? Has Robespierre ever actually ever <i>been</i> to Paris, indeed.

You're bad.

Author: starrsville
Date: 10/10/2006, 05:27 pm

That would be interesting.

<i>What</i> would be interesting?

A very good message dutyfree and it's sad that a trip that was probably saved for and anticipated like most of our trips are, would end up like hers did.

After this thread, I can only hope that Passepartout and Robespierre are the same person. If not, I think Pass must be posting from Robes' closet. A stalker would envy the kind of info Passepartout has collected. I've been seeing Robespierre post for well over a year it seems (it's hard to miss the tantrums) but if any of that information came along at some point, I'm glad there was someone else absorbing it so carefully. ;)

I don't remember as much as I should from physics, and I don't claim to, but I common sense says you'd have to allow for variables. In this hypothetical case, the human element would be no small factor.

First, they're not opposing forces. As likely as not, the victim is as likely as not already moving the same direction as the motorbike. (coming up from behind). Second, there is surprise for the victim, not for the attacker. This gives the attacker the ability to lean forward as well as grip on/wrap one arm tight to the driver, who is not only also leaning forward, but holding the handlebar, adding the weight of the bike. Third, it's unlikely that the attacker has chosen someone as large as themselves. Additionally, I would think instinct would come into play. When attacked unexpectedly, people often duck. This puts the person forward and clears a path for the purse strap to slide over the head. Lastly, there is the fact that people, like most things, will often follow the path of least resistance (more quasi-physics). Just like the old schoolteacher grab them by the ear maneuver, a person may be likely to assist in moving forward to equalize the forward movement that's causing them pain.

So then it comes down to whether or not a person lets go or can let go of their bag. I don't imagine that when people are saying a person was dragged, that they're talking about being dragged all the way back to the crack house. They're talking a couple of feet at most. By then, the attacker would have simply opened his hand and let go, the person is no longer offering (or no longer can offer) resistance and the arm goes up - bag slips off.

Or not. Whatever.

If any of this rings true, then it's a split second or two at most, regardless of outcome, but pretty certain that the attacker comes out fairly unscathed most of the time. Which is what several people on this post have reported witnessing, which is about as much evidential proof as you could ask for. Unless, of course, you don't believe them. In which case, that would make them .... what?

Which would make them ... atypical? I honestly don't know. (And neither do you, by the way.)

If any such scenario (however convoluted Clifton might imagine it) should befall me, I would a) tighten my grip on the goodies, and b) go for the eyeballs with my free hand. As long as the strap hasn't extended enough to allow the thief to put any distance between him and me, they should be accessible.

Absolutely agreed that I don't, in case that wasn't clear in the first post.

Ok, here's a more straightforward one. If a guy saw over her shoulder that arm reaching out and managed to toss down his Nikon and plant the sole of his boot upside the drivers head...

I don't see any particular reason why he'd fly backwards, despite how far these miscreants end up sprawled in the street. Just the changes variables can make on what might be an equal and opposite reaction in a perfect environment. Anticipation and lack of it creating a change in outcome. But anyway, wouldn't the sight of that non-equal reaction be satisfying all the same?

Well, back to the topic at hand...

I did not get mugged, but nearly robbed by a gang of four young women in the Trastevere Train Station in Rome. Two tried to block your way into the train, while another tried to get to my bag, and the fourth one stayed behind for cover.

Good thing I had by bag strapped across my chest. And good thing the bag is full of zippers under the flap. I could feel someone trying to get to it and cried &quot;thieves&quot; to their faces. When they realized I had a couple of friends with me, they got off the train.

Too bad there was not a police around to go after the gang. But do be aware!

As far as ATMs go, in Rome I always pick one out where there are lots of people around, and I don't withdraw money at night. I leave my passport in my rental apartment (I know, I know, I am supposed to carry it, but I don't) and keep my euro and ATM card in my wallet in front pocket. Nothing has happened so far.

That's good. A real sense of false security is as just as good as a false sense of real security.

Just remember that Robespierre lost his head toward the end of the Reign of Terror, after supervising the beheading of hundreds (or was it thousands?) of others. Why choose the name of such a rabid, self-righteous person?

&gt;&gt; If any such scenario (however convoluted Clifton might imagine it) should befall me, I would a) tighten my grip on the goodies, and b) go for the eyeballs with my free hand. As long as the strap hasn't extended enough to allow the thief to put any distance between him and me, they should be accessible. &lt;&lt;

Do you train self defense sports? This sounds similar to what I would do... move into the thief and either go for the eyes or something equally nasty, like a palm strike to the temple, an upper-cut, etc. Whatever is most practical for me at the time...

I just love how starry, roby and passy hating each other...considering that one of them is 2 people it is almost too sick to exist...khe, khe, khe...