Irish PUBS: How to meet people?
 

We are from the USA and headed for the first time to Ireland in July. Travelling with hubby and 2 young adult daughters (over 18).

Here is what I have learned on-line about Irish pubs. Please feel free to add your experiences and if you're a local, tell me the "unwritten rules"!

Rule #1 BELLY UP to the bar. If you don't go stand at the bar everyone will think you don't want to talk to them. True or false? (As opposed to sitting at your own table.) And how does the shy family belly up to the bar?! (We're not shy once we get started. We're the kind of family that stands there and pokes each other and says, YOU do it..NO, YOU go first...) :bucktooth:

Rule #2 BUYING A ROUND: If somebody buys a round of drinks and you are included, it's your turn to buy next. True or false? This seems complicated. What happens if a dozen new people have joined your "group"?

Rule #3: If you want to hear the music you gotta sit close to the musicians and it is rude to talk while they are playing although in some bars everyone is talking...

I'm just enjoying taking a vicarious trip to the Irish pub before I arrive in Ireland. I am interested in hearing from tourists what it was REALLY like in the Irish pubs. I enjoy hearing from locals too. ((B))

You don't need to tell me to stop planning. I am a writer and I write to think. If I'm not writing and planning, my brain stops working. I love it! Just trying to have some fun. Thanks! :)>-

I'll take a stab.

Definitely belly up to the bar! If you need courage, I recommend the liquid kind - keep a bottle of Jameson's in your hotel room and do a round of shots en famile before you go out.

If someone buys you a round you could return the favor very shortly thereafter and the bartender should give them a "chit" and wait to serve them until they're finished (not a very long time to wait in Ireland). I don't think they'll try to add people on to their group.

You should sit near the music/dance area to hear the music. It is in that area (within earshot of the band or those trying to hear) that it isn't nice to talk too loud, except between numbers.

Party on!
(B) (B) (B) (B) (B)

Make that ((B)) ((b)) ((b)) ((b)) ((b))

Well - you will have to go up to the bar to buy drinks - there usually isn't table service. But in many pubs there just isn't room for your whole family to "belly up". Send who ever is getting the drinks up to the bar and the rest of you are just fine sitting at a table.

Tables are not segregated. Folks will be sharing banquettes, or sitting right next to you even if they may technically be at a separate table. And at larger tables - if there are 2 or 3 people already seated and there are seats for 7 or 8, simply ask if you can sit there. 9 times ot of 10 the answer is a definite "yes". And you do the same - if you are seated at a large table and another group asks, invite them to join you.

Most of the time folks won't be buy rounds for more than their immediate party - and since you have to go to the bar to order that isn't an uncomfortable situation at all. If someone should buy you a round - then just ask them if they'll have something when you go order your next drink.

Isn't hard and isn't complicated - you'll get the hang of things straight away . . . . .

That should say " Most of the time folks won't buy rounds for more than their immediate party . . . "

And while that is true - sometimes they do buy for everyone at the whole table -- so just reciprocate if it happens.

amaclise and janisj, thanks for such friendly responses!

amaclise, it will definitely be a memorable family vacation if we keep a bottle of Jameson's in our room and take a shot before heading for the pub!((D)) Especially since my daughters are 19 and 20, and the drinking age here where we live is 21.

They are college students. Naturally they've already had a taste...but not normally with the family.) They just might be begging to make Ireland our family trip for next summer as well! :-d

That Irish pub is already calling me right in...I feel more comfortable already. We love places where you can share a table with folks you haven't met yet. (That isn't common here where we live.)

So do people settle into a spot and stay there? Or do they rove about from group to group?

A chit is something the bartender gives you for each drink you have paid for that hasn't been consumed yet? (Like when you are buying the next round for your table for example?)

Hubby and I haven't been to bars since we were single. We're looking forward to the pubs especially as it sounds like they are for all ages of adults. We're not big drinkers, we like a jovial atmosphere, meeting people around the world, and we want to here some good Irish trad. "Chunes" as I hear the Irish pronounce it.((8))

I heard that if you return to a pub for a second night, they consider you a regular. Does that imply that some of the Irish are at the pubs every night?! I wish we had a neighborhood pub. The closest thing we have is a neighborhood Starbucks, where people sit outside and say hello to each other.

Thanks for familiarizing me with the pubs. It's been fun chatting with you! The next round is on me. ((B)) ((B)) ((B))

What do people talk about? I hear politics and religion are out. I hope so, because I would NOT like to talk about politics on vacation. [-X

Melissa, you could also talk about football (better than politics ????)

Keep in mind that you are two generations: Parents & daughters. Your daughters might like 'Sports Bars' for their more youthful ambiance, whereas Mom and Dad might be more comfortable in more traditional Pub atmosphere.

Much of my Genealogy is done in Pubs: I have had cousins appear at a Pub after I told the Pub owner who my family was and where they were from. That will always get a rise out of some locals.

With the price of a pint of Guinness over five dollars, I try to avoid any groups that rotate buying rounds within the group. I just can't afford 25 Euro 'rounds.'

In her 'Whoredom in Kimmage' book, Rosemary Mahoney describes typical Pub patrons pretty accurately.

The Irish are a curious lot, and almost everyone has 'people' in the States, so whether you 'belly up' to the Bar or sit at a table, it's no less likely that someone will approach you to ask where you are from and if you have 'people' in the area.

Yes, if you want to hear the music you should get there at least 30-minutes before it is scheduled to begin. Just use your common sense re: talking while the music is playing. Our most enjoyable music session was an impromptu one at Cruise's Restaurant & Pub in Ennis on a Sunday afternoon in March: It ran from about 1:00 PM to 4:30 PM.

I guess the shot of courage is out - I heard young adult daughters but didn't think that young.

You're right about the "chit". It's a record of the drinks you have coming to you. It may be a regional term as well, doubt they know it over there but maybe they do. The bartender may keep track in their head as well, a mental "chit"!

I think the table hopping comes later into the evening when things get really rowdy, during the more subdued hours I don't think people go from table to table in groups, maybe individually.

I would talk to them about the World Cup Football, the history and customs of the part of Ireland you are in, and the music being played.

And, yes people do go to the pub every night all over the British Isles. That's why they feel like living rooms when you go in. You should also go to the pubs at lunchtime. If you went at night and returned for lunch they would love it and you would definitely be a regular!

:-) ((B)) :-D

two yrs ago we (husband two twentysomething sons and me)were in Ireland- sitting at a table in pub in Killarney, listening to music, people just came up and started conversation with us; tuned out the guy's first language was Gaelic, and his second was not that great, but we managed- it was fun. happens all over Ireland!!

Norween, I'm not an American football fan but I would enjoy hearing some talk about Irish sports. People love to talk sports. C:)

NEDSIRELAND: Thanks for the reply. You're right, since we are 2 generations, my daughters will inevitably drift towards the Sports Bars if that is where the Irish youth hang out. Hubby and I would prefer the more traditional Pub atmosphere. I am hoping our daughters will spend at least a wee bit of time with us before they leave us "old folks" in the dust! [-o<

When your new "cousins" appeared at the pub, did they buy you a drink, or did you buy THEM a drink? ((B)) I would be quite excited if some "cousins" appeared who might be willing to fill the gaps in my family tree! My Irish grandmother came to "Americay" on a boat when she was 17.

My daughters can't afford 25 euro 'rounds' either! What do the Irish young people do, those "starving students", when they go to pubs? Everyone buys their own drinks? And what does a young woman do if a guy offers to buy her a drink? If she accepts, does that give him a ticket to flirt? ((U))

amaclise, thanks for giving me a glimpse into the pubs. Chatting about the local history and customs sounds very interesting. Maybe I will recognize some of the music being played, as I've been listening to the Chieftains and the McKrells.

Pubs that feel like living rooms sound like a perfect place to spend an evening.

I'll tell hubby we need to find a pub with good food and go for lunch and an evening so we can become regulars. It's been fun chatting with you. :)>-

at the risk of spoiling the fun, i think some of the visions that you have of irish pubs are a bit romanticised. of course, it really depends where you are and what kind of pubs you go into but they can range from quite insular drinking pubs to quite jovial in atmosphere. even the jovial ones, however, may fall shy of your expectations of sociability. frankly in some of the more insular places you are lucky if you are tolerated never mind embraced as locals on your second night!

i see a lot of these types of pub rules and they are usually grossly out of date and serve only to add mystery to the whole pub experience rather than to describe reality. pubs with a lot of foreigners (many in ireland) follow no rules and you need not worry about anything. everyone fits right in.

it's best to follow your own instincts and not force behaviour that is not natural for you. if it's a place with mostly locals (often times older people), it is best to keep it a bit low key and not to try too hard.

most likely you will come away from ireland with a nice memory or two from your pub visit(s) but overall it's really not a big deal and most likely not a whole lot different from pubs/bars at home.

Melissa5,

This is a bit off topic but I'm happy to see you back "on" again. I feel like I've planned our trip right along with yours (ours, the last 2 weeks in August), so I'm dying to hear all about your trip when you return...when is that exactly, so I can be watching? I'm especially interested in how you find the weather, what you were happy that you packed and what you needed more of. We've decided (I think - haven't reserved yet) on Lisdoonvarna vs. Ballyvaughan as I wanted someplace more central so that we could check in and have a bit of a nap before going to the Cliffs at Sunset.

I won't go on as I know this was to be about pubs! Best to you - Casey

Walkinaround, everything is only as romanticized as you imagine it to be while you are experiencing it. So don't worry, I (and my daughters) have plenty of imagination! There is no reality. There is only our perception of it. O-)

Caseyhen, our trip is in July so look for my trip report at the end of July. Happy travels to both of us!

Melissa5 writes: "When your new "cousins" appeared at the pub, did they buy you a drink, or did you buy THEM a drink? I would be quite excited if some "cousins" appeared who might be willing to fill the gaps in my family tree!"

In one case it was lunchtime: Joseph (a non-drinker) came to the Heather Tavern (Bridge St,. Newcastlewest, Limerick) for lunch and to seek me out. He runs the driving school down the street. I had finished lunch but I accompanied him to his place of business and visited with him and his brother later. That's my father's side of the family.

In Mayo I had a similar experience but Anthony took me down the street from the West End Pub (Bangor Erris) to his house to introduce me to his mother (a distant cousin) and gave me a whiskey. I don't normally drink hard liquor but I didn't want to decline their hospitality (an insult in some cultures).

Later, I was trying to 'hitch' a ride to a nearby place (Shagraddy) from in front of a convenience store. The store owner, Mrs. Riordan, came out and asked where I was going. I told her and she took me in her Mercedes to the door of my (then) 105 year old second cousin (my Mother's First Cousin).

"And what does a young woman do if a guy offers to buy her a drink? If she accepts, does that give him a ticket to flirt?"

Sorry, I can't give you much feedback on that. I am a septuagenarian! But young ladies have bought me drinks in Ireland for no apparent reason. They definitely weren't flirting with me.

Try to find out where in Ireland your Irish Grandmother came from. I found much of my family history asking 80-or-90 something people I sought out in Pubs. The one nearest the local Post Office is often the best on Thursdays, when their Pension Checks arrive. There are also Senior Citizen Centers in some towns.

NEDSIRELAND: Well of course they were flirting with you! ;;)

It sounds like you had a grand time meeting those cousins...I'd love to meet a 105 year old cousin!

My grandmother grew up in a Belfast neighborhood. She was born in what used to be called "Tannaghmore West" somewhere south of Belfast. I wish I knew where my grandfather's Irish family was from. I only know where my grandmother grew up.

I have never been to Ireland, but in Barcelona there are a few very Irish pubs and some friends and I like to go. Our reasoning might be interesting to you.

1) Though we are not moochers, we don't generally pay for drinks at the bars. The Irishmen have them in our hands before we have time to belly up.
2) We like getting loud and rowdy and Irish pubs are just the place for it (just know where the exits are and slip out before it gets to crazy)
3) Theyh always play the best British pop music!

Now, mind you this experience is probably more akin to what your daughters will experience (my friends and I range from 23-27), but we always have a great time and leave glad that we went.

Melissa -
We quickly discovered that when we were asked "where are you from?" that replying America was met with eye rolling and groaning. Of course they knew that!

We talked with lots of people in pubs and lots of politics. It's Ireland - all was fair game.

"My grandmother grew up in a Belfast neighborhood. She was born in what used to be called "Tannaghmore West" somewhere south of Belfast."

Then you can scratch my remarks about Thursdays being Pension Checks day for Irish 'Seniors:' I was referring to the Irish Republic; I don't know about the processes in N.I. although they are probably quite similar.

My surname came from a Celtic Chieftain in County Down who died in 853AD. But my 'people' are all from the Republic. I've always meant to go to N.I. to track down some more history; but now I'm getting old ...

laclaire, yes, I think you are describing the kind of experiences my daughters might enjoy! Actually they have travelled with us to Costa Rica and Italy and my son has been to Vietnam as well. They love meeting people around the world of all ages and to have unique experiences.

rosetravels, I will remember not to give the obvious reply that we are from America!

We get a lot of tourists in San Diego. You can always "hear" the Irish, and the English...it's pretty obvious!

Interestingly, we find the English families visiting San Diego to have better manners than the average American family. That also makes them stand out even more! We were astonished to watch English tourists buying lunch for their kids. They were given sandwiches full of all sorts of things. They didn't pick them apart, look inside, complain they didn't like mustard...they just ate them stoically like little adults! Is that very British?

NEDSIRELAND: You're not too old for travel as long as you can still type! Get yourself and a loved one plane tickets for Northern Ireland, which you said you always wanted to see. Hire a local driver to take you around, and to give you the insider's viewpoint.

My inspiration for independent travel was a man in his 70's who I "met" on-line and he helped me to plan our first trip to Italy, where he had been dozens of times with his wife, and he was still travelling in his 70's.

Gotta get out my suitcase now and start packing. Dreaming of chats with all sorts of interesting folks in Ireland, the Irish and tourists from around the world as well.

I read that if you drink more than 1 pint you are legally drunk in Ireland. Hubby doesn't drive drunk, but he is 6 feet tall, and one pint doesn't seem like very much for a man his size.

Hi Melissa,

Im from Dublin so trust me on this...
Rule 1: Belly up to the bar: Never heard of it, people will of course speak with you if you choose not to stand at the bar

Rule 2: Rounds: You MUST buy a round of drinks if you are with a group and they buy you a drink, it is rude and annoying not to (you will certainly not make friends)but only buy rounds with the original group, if others join the group they can look after themselves.

Rule 3: Music: You will hear the music over the sound system so you you dont have to sit on top of the musicians!! and its a pub so of course you can talk...thats what pubs are for!

Not all the pub etiquette guides are accurate...just be yourself there are no rules to the pub....except buying a round. Enjoy!

greatlad, thanks for the "new rules"!%%-

Melissa,

1 pint defining "legally drunk" sounds like -excuse me- rubbish to me.

According to my information (I am not Irish, though), in Ireland one may drive with up to 0.08 % of blood alcohol concentration.

Assuming your husband weighs about 80 kg, i.e. 176 pounds, he would have about 0.036 % of blood alcohol concentration after drowning 1 pint of beer with 5 % of alcohol.

Alcohol is being dissolved in the human body at a rate of 0.01 % to 0.03 % per hour, so after drowning 1 pint and waiting for 1 hour your husband could have a blood-alcohol-concentration of close to 0%.

If it helps, here is how to determine the blood-alcohol-concentration:

1. Determine the amount of alcohol drunk in grammes by determining the amount of alcohol drunk and multiplying by 0.81 to account for the specific weight of alcohol:
1 pint of beer with 5 % alcohol: 28.41 gr. * 0.81 = 23.0121 gr.

2. Subtract the resorption deficit of approx. 10 %:
23.0121 - 2.30121 = 20.71089

3. Divide by the body weight in kg multiplied by 0.7 for men and 0.6 for women:
20.71089 / (80 kg * 0.7) = 0.3698

Please note that the result from the calculation indicated the blood alcohol concentration in %o (per mille). In percentages that would be 0.03698 %.

"My daughters can't afford 25 euro 'rounds' either! What do the Irish young people do, those "starving students", when they go to pubs? Everyone buys their own drinks?"

Young Irish students still buy rounds. Generally you will be in small-ish groups, or a large group would split into two rounds. If there are 5 in your "round" you will have 5 drinks during the course of the night. Saves you having to go to the bar each time and you're still spending the exact same amount as you would have if you bought for yourself!

I've never heard of the term "Belly Up" either. My friends and I would rarely talk to strangers in a pub - the only exception would be in the smoking area which is now very sociable! However I live in Dublin and it might be a bit friendlier in the country.

OK Stop! I live here and this is my experience for the past 11 years. Do not over think this just go in and relax with a drink.

1. It is rare to get into rounds with locals. I do not but strangers drinks and if I do I have been speaking with them all night and its too expensive to get into rounds with strangers. As Cailin said people do it in small groups and you end up buying 1 round for the night. As well sometimes i do not feel like giveing over my whole life story to someone I will never see again. I do meet strangers and tourists but I do not get too involved. You do not have to stand at a bar to talk to someone there is no straight ediquette its different in every pub. Also if someone buys the girls a drink you should at least talk for a minute ot two as it would be rude or just don't accept the drink.

Ned I know the book Whoredom in Kimmage which was written over 15 years ago and I know to be VERY innacurate in many places and really put a negaitive twist on peoples perception. Even the title is ridiculous as Kimmage is no more famous for negative things and probably less so than many areas I could name. Ask Cailin and Lucielou and any of the other Dubs here.

I have never been given a chit in my life in a pub but maybe you could pre pay and show the receipt or a small pub will just keep track. You can always say no we will stay in our own rounds but thanks if someone offers.

Remember this is a european country with business and families and people who just go about business and live their life not all differently than yours. Don't over romanticise as you may be disappointed.

The girls can go on to a disco/nightclub after the pubs close and they should have fun.

I've never even heard of a chit!

The best way to meet people in a pub is to yell loudly, "Out of my way, I'm an American!"

I guarantee you will meet people.

"Pub etiquette:
The crucial thing here is the "round" system, in which each participant
takes turns to "shout" an order. To the outsider, this may appear
casual; you will not necessarily be told it's your round and other
participants may appear only too happy to substitute for you. But make
no mistake,your failure to "put your hand in your pocket" will be
noticed.People will mention it the moment you leave the room. The
reputation will follow you to the grave, whereafter it will attach to
your offspring and possibly theirs as well. In some cases, it may
become permanently enshrined in a family nickname."

From "Ireland for Beginners".

just back from Ireland...actually 2am this morning due to heavy air traffic and delays (we still can't figure out how there was such heavy traffic if most of the flights were cancelled or delayed??) anyway...will be getting notes together soon to post...

not being a big fan...not sure how long this world cup soccer goes on...but they love it in Ireland...most pub music didn't start until last match over...10:15 or so.

as far as music, it depends on the crowd/pub/town/day...
matt malloys on the weekend was full of hen/chick and stag parties of younger locals...a bit loud/rowdy...having a seat near musicians didn't matter because so many people were standing in front of you...not so enjoyable for me, was a bit entertaining to watch...saw man dressed in viking outfit complete with horned helmet, hen party carrying large stuffed hen...also wearing various outfits and masks...they really get into it in some places.

dingle(small bridge), doolin (mcgann's), kenmare(landsdown arms and foley's)...pubs we went to were more geared towards listening to music (of course after the soccer match)...still had conversation, but not real loud, could enjoy both...but if we were not in the same room as session/singer would not have been able to hear as well. I like seeing who is playing...more of a connection...if you are interested, take the time to chat with the musicians during the breaks. ex. I took my niece, who plays the flute and picked up a whistle in Ireland, to speak with pipe/whistle player at small bridge...she got his CD...when she left he gave her a wink and a nod, it made the night a special memory for her.

talking to locals...did find that once they hear your accent they know you are American...if curious, they will ask...then it is up to you as in any situation such as this in a pub/bar to continue natural conversation...

we are not shy about starting conversations and my uncle never met a stranger...so you have to be a bit interested and interesting...again general social skills 101

of course sometimes you are just in the right place...like in westport/matt malloys we had a jovial conversation with "Turk" who had been at a wedding previously and was interested in Americans because his mother was from America...we were treated to his good humor and serenaded with 2/3 songs before session started...he was actually a good singer!

also sat with a wonderful older couple from outside of Limerick who were on a long weekend holiday with their daughter in Kenmare...again we were both interested in the same things, so converstion was very nice.

never bought rounds (I think that this would be, like at home, for groups of friends in a bar, for convenience sake)

found we spoke more with locals last trip/and this trip when it was just the 2 of us (traveling with family group of 10...so took up lots of seats when we were all together and already had people to carry on conversation)

if you let them wonder off a bit...your daughters will probably have no problem at all...

also enjoyed conversations with some of the bartenders and waiters...some have interesting stories to share, like Damian at the silver tassie just outside of letterkenny who was actually the grandson of the first owner of the pub there and whose grandparents now live in long island...and he lived there for a year. he was very friendly and fun...our waitress the next day at the same pub was not...you never know.

I like getting to the pub early for some pub grub if available (McGann's made our best of list for stew,mussels, and good dessert too!). Most nights we were there by 8-8:30, by 9 usually starts getting crowded.

music started so late in most places it made it hard to hop around much...did check out mcdermotts on way home in Doolin for a song.

just relax, enjoy, and like everywhere people like being around people having fun and being themselves.

Well, thank goodness Cailin and Siobhan stepped in here. A good reality check. These are drinking establishments, people go there to drink, they are not places filled with "quaint Irish types" waiting to amuse the next American tourist with their gift of gab. You are no more likely to have a great conversation with the person sitting next to you in Ireland than you are in the States.

On the subject of music, rudeness is in the ear of the beholder. I find it rude for someone to sit down next to a group of musicians and start screaming up a storm. Then again, I'm a musician. It's odd the number of times that I've sat down next to the musicians and listened and had them take the time to actually thank me for listening. Are you allowed to talk ... of course, but screaming across the aisle "Where are you from in the States"? might be frowned upon.

I don't know who told you that if you go to a pub two nights in a row that you're a regular. Yikes!

"And what does a young woman do if a guy offers to buy her a drink? If she accepts, does that give him a ticket to flirt?" .... uh, I believe the flirting has already underway.

Siobhan said it best. Don't over think it. I've never found a vast difference between pubs in the States and pubs in Ireland. There is a huge variety of styles of pubs and with any luck, you'll find one with a "happy old Irishman" who has been hired by the pub to amuse tourists.

Bill

HSV: EEk! I hope we don't need to do all those calculations after downing a pint of Guiness! (By the way I read the 1 pint rule somewhere in my many guidebooks but can't remember which one.) #-O Thanks for your reply.

CAILIN: I guess I'm getting old. If I had 5 drinks in one night I would end up like this: 8-) :-d O-) @-):&

Thanks everybody for posting your viewpoints on the Irish pub experience.

Sometimes people don't understand that my questions are designed to invite a huge variety of replies. Somewhere in the mix is always a preview of the travel experience.

And people in other countries are NOT like they are here in the USA. I have found that people all over the world are different, that's part of the fun of travel! There are differences in customs, some subtle, some obvious.

You don't need to plant a paid local for me to talk to. I will find one on my own. One of the happy surprises of travel is I never know when or where I will meet someone interesting.:S-

Often, something that is taken for granted by locals is a unique experience for a traveller. Travellers find what they expect to find. If I'm looking for magic I seek it out and find it. Some folks look for disappointment and they find it.

Thanks for the interesting discussion. Anybody else want to add their Irish pub experiences?

Sometimes I think it's a crime to be too "happy" on fodors! :)>-

I am all for happy and you will enjoy. Chip kinda hit it on the nail be interested i.e. people get fed up with life stories when they just ask a short question and people like to be heard its a 2 way thing and happens naturally and will happen on any trip. Also recently in Limerick we had a meal beside 2 American gutys who were out for a few drinks before and started to have a chat with us but by the end I was running out the door as far too many personal questions were being asked to us. Like are you married, how long you going out for, any kids...why not?? I felt they were too personal and none of their bloody business. Thumped my partner on the head after for starting a conversation in the first place.

I think we should forget the rounds thing as to be honest I only ever get into rounds with my friends on a night out and buying an Irish person a drink makes them feel like they owe you one and then it keeps going back and forth...nightmare. Rounds are really for close friends and family on a night out.

Bill - I agree people always talk here in a pub but to start talking loudly beside the musicians is rude. they are there to play music and entertain. Some people watch/ listen to the musicians and for some its background music when they are chatting at the bar.

People are just letting yu know these thimngs so you have an idea of what to expect. You can have other scenarios as well but this is more real Ireland.

Have a good trip

SiobhanP writes: "Ned I know the book Whoredom in Kimmage which was written over 15 years ago and I know to be VERY innacurate in many places and really put a negaitive twist on peoples perception. ..."

You say you 'know' the book but you may need to re-read it: The title quotes an older woman's remarks re. perceived immorality among Ireland's young women. It doesn't really have anything to do with Kimmage.

When I wrote about Mahoney's describing Pub patrons pretty accurately, I was referring to Pubs in rural Co. Limerick or rural Co. Mayo.

My stops in Dublin have been mostly one-nighters (prior to flying back to the 'States') My remarks about the book are not based on experiences in Dublin Pubs, especially any 'gay' bars where people of those persuasions 'hang out.' But Rosemary Mahoney does tell us about such places that many Irish-Americans in the U.S. would deny existed. Their response would probably be: "There's none of that in Ireland!"

Back to the theme of this forum: There are such Pubs in Ireland, especially in large cities such as Dublin. Advise your daughters to be careful!

I like Irish pubs but I find myself being too caught up in the quaint idea that everyone is leaping about the Heather being very lovely ,and I am Irish but living abroad.I let my guard down in Ireland and put myself in a really quite dangerous situation.Could happen anywere! I travel alot and spend time in bars in the States and Canada .Same rules apply everywhere.I agree rounds are for locals to share unless you are spending the entire evening with a group.Ireland is no different to any other country.Same rules apply in Singapore and Chicago. Be nice ,be smart and dont put any nation in your really cute chatty category.

Ned I have read the book albeit not re-read as I founds it inaccurate. The author quoted an older woman sayin "if Abortion was legal there would be Whoredom in Kimmage" That alone make me think twice about the quality of the Author as Kimmage does not have the reputation that some areas do and people would instantly use theser areas/town names before Kimmage. As well the other scenarios she detailed in the book were basically not your typical people of irish society. This is the girl who smokes hash and has a kid and the author was living in an old castle. They are nutters and dodgy people that exist everywhere in every country and she seemed to seek them out and portray them as typical Irish. The book was aslo pre-celtic tiger and it reflects little of the current society. I just think as someone who only stayed here a few months the author tries to pass the book and stories off as typical Irish happenings and these people are commonly found which i think is not true. I will give it a re-read if i can find it :-)

P.S. there are quite a few gay bars here in Dublin and have been for years even in the more miserable times. Most are open to all and everyone (gay and straight) and I would as happily go to one with friends as I would to a regular pub out of respect for them. I can't expect my gay pals to come to a straight bar every night we meet nor do they expect me to go to a gay bar with them each time we go out. We have pretty much everything in society here that exists in many other countries just on a smaller scale.

What pubs are you advising them to watch out for with their daughters????